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[Flatline]

This is much more ironic imo, tragic but ironic.

Ron Paul’s campaign manager dies of pneumonia, uninsured, leaving family $400,000 debt

 

[CornBurrito]

But allowing them to weaken and possibly die will slow the group and potentially leave it down a member.

Eh true.

We don't pop out replacements like bunny rabbits. A new human has a nine month gestation period and takes 14-16 years before he/she is useful for anything. Even throwing empathy out the window altogether, it makes sense to use resources to heal your sick and injured.

Yeah totally forgot to think about that. Derp on my part.

 

[Bombadil]

Is this really the case? Taking care of the sick costs a lot of resources. I thought the reason humans took care of the sick was a byproduct of empathy which has tangible benefits when maneuvering through the social world. From a resource standpoint it isn't in your best interest.

You are a cold man.

This and your comment about beached dolphins really paint a picture.

 

[RDreamer]

I don't understand the resistance to a single payer system.

From some of the figures Gaffers have posted, I would pay much less in taxes for complete coverage at the point of need than most Americans with a private health insurance policy with many restrictions and things like co-pays etc.

In fact, I haven't been taxed for almost 2 years because I've been in part-time employment and don't earn enough to be taxed.

For the last 2 years, I have had completely free health cover.

Because people here are fucking stupid. The right and the media that pushes that sort of agenda in this country have been pushing that narrative that government = bad for so long that anything with more government is bad news no matter what. That same media also pushes out stupid welfare queen narrative, and that gets people scared that they're paying so much for people to mooch. They have it in their brain that if we provide these things people won't do anything. Then they all have this misplaced patriotism that says we're the best country to ever exist on earth, and so no one could possibly think of a better solution than what we have. And you combine all that with the red scares of our past, and that's why people don't want it.

So we sit here and pay literally double what every other civilized country does for our health care, and for what? For some weird sense of freedom. For the freedom to get shitty health care I guess... Not even really freedom to choose anything, since our health care is tied to our jobs... It's really a shitty system that makes no sense.

 

[clearacell]

Wow, so what this really is about is the OP being a jerk? She was bankrupt due to a failed business, a product of our dwindling economy...and now you're making fun of her for being on unemployment benefits as she's just trying to get by in life?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This is much more ironic imo, tragic but ironic.

Ron Paul’s campaign manager dies of pneumonia, uninsured, leaving family $400,000 debt

Roy Cohn did it better left a huge debt and they couldn't stick it to anyone, as was his desire to fuck off the Feds. Lol

 

[johnsmith]

Wow, so what this really is about is the OP being a jerk? She was bankrupt due to a failed business, a product of our dwindling economy...and now you're making fun of her for being on unemployment benefits as she's just trying to get by in life?

She was railing against government handouts while taking government handouts.

 

[Flatline]

Wow, so what this really is about is the OP being a jerk? She was bankrupt due to a failed business, a product of our dwindling economy...and now you're making fun of her for being on unemployment benefits as she's just trying to get by in life?

Sorry but I kind of agree with him. I have a lot of empathy for most people but not for people who lack empathy themselves. This woman was part of a group that consider people who receive any help from social security as vermin and parasites while they vehemently oppose society helping the sick. And guess what, she became the exact thing she despised and criticized. If that doesn't deserve mockery I don't what does.

 

[Zoe]

She was railing against government handouts while taking government handouts.

As the business owner, she was paying her own unemployment.

 

[johnsmith]

As the business owner, she was paying her own unemployment.

So she was obviously a terrible businesswoman.

 

[Devolution]

Sorry but I kind of agree with him. I have a lot of empathy for most people but not for people who lack empathy themselves. This woman was part of a group that consider people who receive any help from social security as vermin and parasites while they vehemently oppose society helping the sick. And guess what, she became the exact thing she despised and criticized. If that doesn't deserve mockery I don't what does.

You mean the typical shortsighted republican in this country? Society's safety nets are oh so terrible until they catch these assholes.

 

[davepoobond]

As the business owner, she was paying her own unemployment.

loooooool


this is terribly ironic.

but i dont see how this is going to be an issue in the supreme court case, unfortunately.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

She pretty much exemplifies the GOP in a fucking nutshell. No limits to the depths of irony of this party and its subscribers. It's like the fuel that keeps them going.

 

[thefit]

And also depending on her income she may have qualified for expanded Medicaid or insurance subsidies.

Not only that she wouldn't have be forced to do shit because she needs a certain amount of employees.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

She pretty much exemplifies the GOP in a fucking nutshell. No limits to the depths of irony of this party and its subscribers. It's like the fuel that keeps them going.

Yes it does. People who try their best to make it on their own and are ashamed when they have to rely on government assistance.
It's terrible that people have to be like that.

 

[Devolution]

Yes it does. People who try their best to make it on their own and are ashamed when they have to rely on government assistance.
It's terrible that people have to be like that.

No, it's terrible that they decry these programs or insult people who use them (or want broader gov assistance, damned socialists), oh but they're suddenly necessary when they're in a rut. Can't really be more hypocritical than these kinds of assclowns =).

 

[speculawyer]

Yes it does. People who try their best to make it on their own and are ashamed when they have to rely on government assistance.
It's terrible that people have to be like that.

But you see . . . that's joke. Because there is no good healthcare system, she ended up on government assistance. Assistance for unemployment and for medical care. But if we had a better functioning system, she may not have ended up on that.

 

[Rentahamster]

 

[LM4sure]

Oh, so the joke is when they said healthcare is free? That is hilarious...because it's not free!! Hahaha so funny

 

[notsol337]

I find it strangely noble. She's saying "Hey, we should take care of ourselves! I don't want the government to force me to buy into insurance."

Granted, she accepted unemployment, but she still wants to take responsibility for her actions and pay the consequences.

That being said... still stupid.

 

[RDreamer]

Yes it does. People who try their best to make it on their own and are ashamed when they have to rely on government assistance.
It's terrible that people have to be like that.

The problem really comes with the fact that a lot of people like that seem to think that others aren't like that. They think that others just love being given stuff and love being on welfare and all that. The thing is most people want to work, and most people want to make it on their own. These people seem to think of themselves as special little flowers who tried, unlike everyone, and then failed. They're the exception to the rule in their minds. But in reality they're just the same as everyone else trying to make it.

 

[squidyj]

We don't pop out replacements like bunny rabbits. A new human has a nine month gestation period and takes 14-16 years before he/she is useful for anything. Even throwing empathy out the window altogether, it makes sense to use resources to heal your sick and injured.

More importantly if you're committed to saving lives in situations of life and death regardless of so-called usefulness it is EXTREMELY useful to make good health care available to all so as to prevent situations from becoming extreme.

 

[Karsticles]

I thought this would be an article about how inspiring it is when someone can benefit from welfare but does her best to survive on her own regardless.

 

[The Technomancer]

I thought this would be an article about how inspiring it is when someone can benefit from welfare but does her best to survive on her own regardless.

Studies show that most people on welfare are actively trying to get off it.

 

[Clevinger]

Oh, so the joke is when they said healthcare is free? That is hilarious...because it's not free!! Hahaha so funny

lol

 

[FStop7]

1. What a dumb lady.

2. How does $4,500 drive a person into bankruptcy?

 

[thefit]

I find it strangely noble. She's saying "Hey, we should take care of ourselves! I don't want the government to force me to buy into insurance."

Granted, she accepted unemployment, but she still wants to take responsibility for her actions and pay the consequences.

That being said... still stupid.

As speculawyer pointed out they're trying to be in your words "noble" in a system that is set-up for profit they had NO chance in ever making it on their own if ever a medical emergency came up and that's the problem not them wanting to be independent, they were just naive.

 

[speedline]

She didn't go bankrupt because of medical bills, she went bankrupt because her business failed. Title is completely misleading-- not surprised.

 

[Oblivion]

Granted, she accepted unemployment, but she still wants to take responsibility for her actions and pay the consequences.

No she doesn't! lol

She filed for bankruptcy! How is that taking responsibility?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

the saddest part is the cognitive dissonance.

"I pay my bills." Bitch, you're writing checks from unemployment benefit money!

 

[Flatline]

Oh, so the joke is when they said healthcare is free? That is hilarious...because it's not free!! Hahaha so funny

It's free for them. When society decides to help those is in need and cooperate to make it happen then it is perceived as free for each individual even if it isn't. Guess what, police and military aren't free either but republicans seems pretty infatuated with those.

 

[SapientWolf]

Why was the article cut up in the OP without any indication? This paragraph, in particular, was missing from the middle.

Lawyers who represent Brown dispute the significance of her bankruptcy. They say her unpaid medical bills were only a small part of her debts and did not cause her bankruptcy. They say that she and her husband owe $55,000 to others, including credit card companies. And they say her financial troubles were caused by the failure of her auto repair shop.

And here comes the backfire.

Do hospitals get a tax write-off for the costs they eat when people can't pay?

 

[s7evn]

And here comes the backfire.

Do hospitals get a tax write-off for the costs they eat when people can't pay?

I'm sure they get something. It is basically providing charity at that point.

 

[tafer]

Yeah, this isn't really news, unfortunately.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-net-increasingly-depend-on-it.html

The Right in this country is just fucking stupid. There's really no way to be polite about it.

From the article:

And as more middle-class families like the Gulbransons land in the safety net in Chisago and similar communities, anger at the government has increased alongside. Many people say they are angry because the government is wasting money and giving money to people who do not deserve it. But more than that, they say they want to reduce the role of government in their own lives. They are frustrated that they need help, feel guilty for taking it and resent the government for providing it. They say they want less help for themselves; less help in caring for relatives; less assistance when they reach old age.

You seriously need a special kind of brain to come up with that sutff...

 

[Mudkips]

She didn't go bankrupt because of medical bills, she went bankrupt because her business failed. Title is completely misleading-- not surprised.

Nonono, you are not allowed to bring facts into politics.

 

[Oblivion]

Nonono, you are not allowed to bring facts into politics.

Reality has a well known conservative bias.

 

[travisbickle]

She didn't go bankrupt because of medical bills, she went bankrupt because her business failed. Title is completely misleading-- not surprised.

But the whole bankruptcy process will be helped and supported by the government.


Life has a well known liberal bias.

 

[Puddles]

Nonono, you are not allowed to bring facts into politics.

I think the issue is that the plaintiff in a suit against the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was unable to pay her medical expenses under our current healthcare system.

 

[Bleepey]

This is much more ironic imo, tragic but ironic.

Ron Paul’s campaign manager dies of pneumonia, uninsured, leaving family $400,000 debt

Why should he ask for charity cos he was too stupid to get health insurance? That's his own freeloading fault, i refuse to believe Ron Paul could not pay him, also why couldn't he barter his services like in the good old days. I am not entirely sure how serious i am.

 

[Walshicus]

You gotta love how fucked up the American working class Right is. Has there ever been a group of people more determined to vote against their own interests?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

You gotta love how fucked up the American working class Right is. Has there ever been a group of people more determined to vote against their own interests?

Why is voting for your own interest some kind of noble thing in your mind?

 

[ReBurn]

Why is voting for your own interest some kind of noble thing in your mind?

Because what I deem best for me is obviously best for everyone else, too. Right?

When it comes to healthcare I wish we could all be honest with ourselves. The cost of healthcare in the US is too high. Forcing people to buy health coverage isn't the way to bring those costs down for everyone. Sure, pushing more healthy people into the pool provides more money to help pay for the sick people, but when you let the sick people who can't currently get coverage in is there enough to cover them? I guess we'll see. I wish the public option would have been seriously considered by Republicans.

Either way, people with health coverage can still go bankrupt from medical bills. There are medical plans with deductibles that are higher than the $4,500 this person owed. My nieghbor is in construction and his deductible is $10,000 per family member. He's an outspoken critic of reform because it doesn't help his family. So he feels he's speaking out for his own interests. If your employer provides one of those plans you might as well have no coverage unless you have a catastrophic illness or injury.

 

[SyNapSe]

You gotta love how fucked up the American working class Right is. Has there ever been a group of people more determined to vote against their own interests?

I don't think this lady represents the American working class right. She wasn't against obamacare; She was anti-having any insurance or coverage. To the average person that's just a crazy idea.

edit: I don't think people really understand obamacare. This lady would have ended up bankrupt under that plan as well. That's assuming she would have even paid the premiums which is unlikely.

 

[Zoe]

I think the issue is that the plaintiff in a suit against the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was unable to pay her medical expenses under our current healthcare system.

Technically it was her husband's medical bills.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

My nieghbor is in construction and his deductible is $10,000 per family member. He's an outspoken critic of reform because it doesn't help his family. So he feels he's speaking out for his own interests. If your employer provides one of those plans you might as well have no coverage unless you have a catastrophic illness or injury.

Excuse me, non-American here. Deductible of $10,000, is that yearly or how does that work? I think my deductible is 200 something euro's every year.

 

[Zoe]

Excuse me, non-American here. Deductible of $10,000, is that yearly or how does that work? I think my deductible is 200 something euro's every year.

It's yearly. Most basic coverage (such as preventative) is covered by a copay or percentage though.

 

[Javaman]

Who declares bankruptcy for $4,500? That had to be a small part of it.

 

[Karsticles]

Studies show that most people on welfare are actively trying to get off it.

No doubt that is true, and in no way conflicts with what I said.

 

[loosus]

$10,000 deductible? What kinda shitty insurance is that? Mine is like $500, and I certainly have no Cadillac plan.

 

[ReBurn]

It's yearly. Most basic coverage (such as preventative) is covered by a copay or percentage though.

This is a high deductible health plan, so it is all out of pocket until you reach your deductible. So essentially it's $10,000 out of pocket for him and everything after that is paid for.

In my last job I had an HDHP and my deductible was $4,250. The company contributed $2,500 to it, so I had a max out of pocket per year of $1,750. That wasn't too bad. At least you could plan for it. My current job gives you the option of a PPO or an HDHP. The PPO is ~$440 per month in premiums with a $30 copay for office visits and $20 prescription copay. I have a $2,000 per year family deductible/20% out of pocket for me for anything that can't be handled with an office visit. The HDHP is a $4,500 family max out of pocket per year with premiums of ~$250 per month. Both options here are pretty good, so I can complain.

But from reading all of that it's easy to see that healthcare is way too complicated in the US. And for a non-union construction worker a $10,000 deductible with 100% of that out of pocket is as good as not having healthcare at all. I really hope that Obamacare helps people in this situation. Just being "covered" isn't enough if the coverage doesn't mean anything.

$10,000 deductible? What kinda shitty insurance is that? Mine is like $500, and I certainly have no Cadillac plan.

Right now there's no requirement in effect that insurance must be good. The main thing that gripes me about health coverage being private is that the profit motive screws average people every time. I'd gladly pay my premiums and more into a universal system to cut out all of the corporate BS related to healthcare. Just make it easy.