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[xsarien]

Entire article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...15/en_usatoday/goingtoetotoeonofficeetiquette

Even though he was never given a dress code, rising Syracuse University junior Michael Swartz knew enough not to turn up on the first day of his summer internship on the Kalamazoo (Mich.) Gazette design desk wearing sandals and iPod earbuds. Yet by the second week the sandals were on and the earbuds were in - and no one seemed to mind.
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Just the other day, he sported a T-shirt emblazoned with a Budweiser logo. (OK, so it peeked out from under a button-down shirt.) A co-worker noticed. "He goes, 'Dude, you wore a beer shirt to work?' "

It must not have been an egregious misstep "because no one has sent me home yet," says Swartz, 20, who is unapologetic about bringing his campus-casual habits to the office.

Then there's Justin Young, 22, who IMs at his architectural consulting job in Manhattan as often as he did in college (read: all the time) and does so with impunity. Nonetheless, he compromises when it comes to his iPod; he listens to it only when he's doing mindless work (faxing, scanning) and only with one earbud. "To me, that sort of says, 'Hey, I'm ready if you want to say something to me. I'm ready to work, but I just really want to hear Ludacris right now.' "

This is what Generation Y - and its ultra-casual culture - hath wrought at work, a place where style and technology trends are more woven in than ever. It's neither a Gen-Y dream nor a human resources nightmare but something in the middle, where adjustments and concessions are made by young people and their employers alike. And this summer in particular proved one in which underlings and bosses learned a lesson or two about good behavior and fair practices.

Office culture varies, of course, according to the kind of office; a law firm is always going to be more polished than a newsroom. But the atmosphere of the workplace is changing dramatically - becoming more informal, more gadgetized, more employee-centric - in large part because of the expectations of today's crop of college interns and recent graduates. And considering the thirtysomething staffers who now duck out to the hall to take cell phone calls or wear heeled flip-flops on Fridays, the rules are shifting for everyone as a result.

Those who have been logged on since grade school "are a different breed," says Teresa Alewel, career services director at Central Missouri State University. She speaks from 20 years of experience.

Just as a small footnote, I believe the general consensus on when Generation Y begins is the late 70s. No specific range has ever been determined.


Anyway, I read this article and wondered, frankly, what the hell took so long for someone to notice. Ever since I got out of school, the most formal shoes that I've worn to work are my current pair of black Chucks. The times I've worn a tie are in a nice, neat 1:1 ratio with how many interviews I've had, and I've strolled in with just about every t-shirt I own at least once. I know that my job performance has never, ever had an effect on how I'm judged (my last review was all but stellar, actually). It's all performance-based, and I think that's how it should be. (I don't do the iPod though. It's not a matter of etiquette, it's just that I get a little too distracted by the music.)

The article really drives home how I've felt since probably high school with, "Call them Generation Why. 'This group wants an explanation: 'You tell me why I have to dress up,' ' Alewel says." I'd like to add that the explanation needs to be a bit more fleshed out than nostalgic platitudes like "The clothes make the man."

I suspect that things would be a little different if I were more of a "face" to the outside world, though. I'm not in sales, I'd probably kill myself - or others - if I had to do that.

 

[pestul]

Great topic.

I'm always amazed at employers who force certain dress codes for departments who do not even deal with the general public. You want performance? Make your employees more comfortable.

 

[distantmantra]

I've been working for an insurance company this summer before I start my first year as a school psychologist. I follow the company handbook and come to work in slacks and dress shirts or polos every day, and I'm absolutely disgusted by the IT guys who wear ratty jeans, tennis shoes, etc. I'm not sure how they get away with it. I actually enjoy dressing nice (I'm saddened by the fact that I will not be allowed to wear my suits to work as a school psychologist; at least I can wear ties).

I do listen to my iPod at work, but I keep the volume level low enough that I can hear people talking to me.

 

[xsarien]

I've been working for an insurance company this summer before I start my first year as a school psychologist. I follow the company handbook and come to work in slacks and dress shirts or polos every day, and I'm absolutely disgusted by the IT guys who wear ratty jeans, tennis shoes, etc. I'm not sure how they get away with it.

My department is IT-like, so I can answer this; and I'm going to answer it from a "ratty" pair of cargo jeans, a long-sleeve T, and the aforementioned pair of Chucks:

"Because getting our job done - and consistently doing it well - matters more to the beancounters than what we're wearing."

 

[ToxicAdam]

There's an age-old idea that you perform like you dress. From sports (that's why players get chided for sloppy uniforms) to the workplace (hence a dresscode at even non-service jobs).

Sloppy dress means you are sloppy in your work.

I don't totally buy into the idea, but in my work experiences, those that paid more attention to thier dress also paid more attention to details.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

There's an age-old idea that you perform like you dress. From sports (that's why players get chided for sloppy uniforms) to the workplace (hence a dresscode at even non-service jobs).

Sloppy dress means you are sloppy in your work.

I don't totally buy into the idea, but in my work experiences, those that paid more attention to thier dress also paid more attention to details.

More often than not, you're correct.

 

[Outcast2004]

There's an age-old idea that you perform like you dress. From sports (that's why players get chided for sloppy uniforms) to the workplace (hence a dresscode at even non-service jobs).

Sloppy dress means you are sloppy in your work.

I don't totally buy into the idea, but in my work experiences, those that paid more attention to thier dress also paid more attention to details.

I don't buy into the theory of dress = performance.

I'm a t-shirt and jeans guy and I work in the creative technical service dept for a major newspaper and I'm an extremely hard worker and it's accurate.

If I were an employer and you didn't have to deal with the public I personally wouldn't care. As long as the work gets done who really cares?

Every job I've been at has been casual, of course I've always been in creative in some context.

"Because getting our job done - and consistently doing it well - matters more to the beancounters than what we're wearing."

BINGO

 

[RevenantKioku]

Personally, I feel it just starts to break down the barriers of work and not-work. What's next, someone whacking it in the office "but I do it with my dick just hanging out of my fly. It says, 'I'm ready to work, but I just want to wank it right now.'"

 

[cubicle47b]

The owners of the small business I work at don't care what I wear. I have my own product and without it they probably would have had to close down the company so it's t-shirts and jeans and closed sennheisers at a high volume for me. If you want to talk to me, tap me on the shoulder or send me an e-mail. I'm busy coding.

 

[pnjtony]

I did help desk work for a contractor and we worked on-site so he had to adhere to thier dress codes (Ford & Liberty Mutual). I work directly for Comcast now and they're a lot looser and I'm 50/50 about it. Part of me likes to wear jeans and a t-shirt if I want to, but there's a part of me that'd feel a bit beter if I had to wear button down shirt and slacks....but then it's just help desk work, not deskside so...whatever

 

[xsarien]

I don't totally buy into the idea, but in my work experiences, those that paid more attention to thier dress also paid more attention to details.

That's a completely irrational correlation. I could just as easily say that everyone who pays attention to what they eat pays more attention to their work.

A good worker is a good worker, regardless if the logo on their shirt is DKNY or CBGBs.

 

[Myllz]

I follow the company handbook and come to work in slacks and dress shirts or polos every day, and I'm absolutely disgusted by the IT guys who wear ratty jeans, tennis shoes, etc.

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

 

[ChrisReid]

I went to an interview at a bank last month and the regional manager guy who participated was wearing jeans. I was pretty surprised. I start an office-ish job next month, and I expect it'll be similar. I'm personally a big fan of dress codes. I don't suggest offices require slacks and ties.. but from my limited experience, it seems that they're going jeans and t-shirt. I only own like one pair of jeans, but I have like 14 pairs of khakis. Khakis and a poloshirt/simple button shirt seem like a pretty good business casual combination to me. Anything less just looks a bit sloppy and unprofessional for business setting, whether there's customers involved or not.

Edit: Of course, in jobs when you're crawling on your back and doing all sorts of laborious stuff, jeans and t-shirts might be good for some people.

 

[pestul]

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

Exactly.. and I'm someone who is required to wear a uniform to work everyday. :/

 

[chaostrophy]

I'm in IT, and I have to wear business casual dress even though we have no contact with customers except over the phone, and I HATE it, for many reasons.

The main one is I like to be active at work- walk back and forth to work and lunch since I live close by, and take walks around the building during smoke breaks since I don't smoke. Business casual dress makes this uncomfortable. Companies should be encouraging their employees to get a decent amount of exercise, if for no other reason than it reduces company medical expenses in the long run.

The obsession with appearance and dress is one of the worst elements of business culture, and the sooner it's done away with the better.

 

[Trident]

Well, seems to me that any idea of "business-like dress" is simply convention anyway. Just because you associate button down shirt and tie with hard work doesn't mean that there's some natural connection to it. Other people may make that connection with their everyday clothes, because they work hard with whatever they're doing. Or maybe they don't spend time correlating clothes to work and actually get things done instead.

 

[ToxicAdam]

That's a completely irrational correlation. I could just as easily say that everyone who pays attention to what they eat pays more attention to their work.

A good worker is a good worker, regardless if the logo on their shirt is DKNY or CBGBs.

I'm talking about tucking in their shirts, keeping facial hair trim, wearing a belt. Generally, keeping a neat appearance. You know .. DETAILS of thier personal dress code. Not if they are wearing a fucking designer pair of pants.


You notice it in the service industry too. Workers at fast food place that wear cleaner uniforms (no stains and have them tucked in) usually provide better service and are more attentive than the kids that have thier wrinkled shirts hanging out with stains all over them.

If those two mythical kids provided the same service ... 8 of 10 people would say the neater, cleaner of the two provided the better service. Unfortunately, perception effects reality in the workplace.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

There's an age-old idea that you perform like you dress.

I guess I perform... extra extra extra large.

 

[xsarien]

I'm talking about tucking in their shirts, keeping facial hair trim, wearing a belt. Generally, keeping a neat appearance. You know .. DETAILS of thier personal dress code. Not if they are wearing a fucking designer pair of pants.

I'll make sure the two metalheads I work with get the memo, but they're quite busy simultaneously doing work and poking a rather large hole in that theory of yours.

You notice it in the service industry too. Workers at fast food place that wear cleaner uniforms (no stains and have them tucked in) usually provide better service and are more attentive than the kids that have thier wrinkled shirts hanging out with stains all over them.

If those two mythical kids provided the same service ... 8 of 10 people would say the neater, cleaner of the two provided the better service. Unfortunately, perception effects reality in the workplace.

Are you sure about that? I'd wager that the kid with the more stained uniform was simply working the burger machine a lot longer than the other.

 

[RevenantKioku]

The article really drives home how I've felt since probably high school with, "Call them Generation Why. 'This group wants an explanation: 'You tell me why I have to dress up,' ' Alewel says." I'd like to add that the explanation needs to be a bit more fleshed out than nostalgic platitudes like "The clothes make the man."

I'll tell you why. I sign your fucking paycheck and I want my workers to look professional.

 

[xsarien]

I'll tell you why. I sign your fucking paycheck and I want my workers to look professional.

To whom (or what?) I'm usually sitting at my workstation all day either banging away in Photoshop, Dreamweaver, or our webcast sessions.

 

[ToxicAdam]

 

[RevenantKioku]

To whom (or what?) I'm usually sitting at my workstation all day either banging away in Photoshop or Dreamweaver.

How about the people walking past you? Where I work right now, this one fucker keeps taking his shirt off. He's comfortable but I sure as hell don't want to see it.
Sure it gets sketchy at that point, I'm not saying go full suit form, but there's nothing wrong with a pair of khakis (more comfortable than jeans ANY day of the weak anyway) and a loose dress shirt.

 

[xsarien]

How about the people walking past you? Where I work right now, this one fucker keeps taking his shirt off. He's comfortable but I sure as hell don't want to see it.
Sure it gets sketchy at that point, I'm not saying go full suit form, but there's nothing wrong with a pair of khakis (more comfortable than jeans ANY day of the weak anyway) and a loose dress shirt.

A pretty extreme case, and I'm certainly not advocating nudity in the workplace. However, if someone's problem with a co-worker is "Oh jeez, he's wearing a t-shirt and jeans?", that person should consider themselves lucky.

There are plenty of well-dressed assholes in the workplace, and plenty of (very) casually dressed nice, hard workers. That obviously swings the other way as well, but that only emphasizes the point of the article.

 

[Ristamar]

Our office dress code is very lax. In fact, there really isn't one, unless we have an important client coming in...

 

[Wellington]

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

Well, I work in construction and I have to wear business casual clothes. Fucking pisses me off to no end. Though I am not supposed to be doing any kind of physical work, shit if someone needs a hand then I'm in it to help out. Right now the vast majority of our site is excavation, meaning every fuckin' day I end up with tons of mud on my boots and on my dress pants and dress shirt. Ugh. I wish I could just go in jeans and a t-shirt.

Oh yeah, and walking around in 100 degree weather kinda sucks when you're all dressed up.

 

[VALIS]

Shit, you guys are lucky. In all of my multiple telecommunication jobs on Wall St., it was always suit & tie. Doesn't matter if I'm pulling wires in a phone closet all day - suit & tie. Casual Fridays were dress pants and a polo/button down shirt. New York is old school like that.

 

[RevenantKioku]

A pretty extreme case, and I'm certainly not advocating nudity in the workplace. However, if someone's problem with a co-worker is "Oh jeez, he's wearing a t-shirt and jeans?", that person should consider themselves lucky.

There are plenty of well-dressed assholes in the workplace, and plenty of (very) casually dressed nice, hard workers. That obviously swings the other way as well, but that only emphasizes the point of the article.

I'm a traditionalist, so it doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see these kids (note: I'm 22) as asking why, just selfish motherfuckers, that's all.

 

[Future Trunks]

Well, I work in construction and I have to wear business casual clothes. Fucking pisses me off to no end. Though I am not supposed to be doing any kind of physical work, shit if someone needs a hand then I'm in it to help out. Right now the vast majority of our site is excavation, meaning every fuckin' day I end up with tons of mud on my boots and on my dress pants and dress shirt. Ugh. I wish I could just go in jeans and a t-shirt.

Oh yeah, and walking around in 100 degree weather kinda sucks when you're all dressed up.

Hahaha! I get to wear FUBU and throwback Nets shootaround warmup jerseys to work! And I'm NEVER outside! Trunks - 1, CK - 0!

....a mild exaggeration. I try to wear a tie one or two days out of the week, although, that is not necessary (kinda ridiculed a little - "How was the interview?"). Casual slacks and shirt are supposed to be the norm. Most however, wear jeans and a shirt to work.

One or two other days I'll be business casual. Any other days....I'm Trunks Casual (FUBU/Urban clothing/etc, NFL/NBA attire/etc...). So, from 1-3 days out of the week, I'm Trunks Casual.

Go NASA contractors!

[/attire bragging]

 

[Spastic Colon]

Once you master the WASP art of making casual clothes appear formal and dressy, you'll be set in offices that don't require a suit and tie.

 

[SyNapSe]

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

110 degree server room? That's amazing.. How long do your servers tend to last!?!

My job is fairly casual and it feels about right. You can wear jeans/tennis shoes if you want, but outside of that it's fairly business casual (button up shirts, etc.) So, no-one can run around looking sloppy as hell or with holes in the clothes. There's no rule against having your shirt untucked either, but I don't see many people do it often.

 

[TheQueen'sOwn]

I'm a traditionalist, so it doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see these kids (note: I'm 22) as asking why, just selfish motherfuckers, that's all.

Not really selfish... it's just there is no point getting all dressed up.

 

[spikydavid]

Personally, when I started working, I bitched endlessly about having to wear suit & tie (well, suit and shirt, anyway, requiring a tie is gender discrimination), but now I just don't care. I'm happy enough to wear "business smart", and I do see some point to it (ironically enough, the same things people said to me when I was bitching about it).

At the end of the day, there are way more important things to care about - this really smacks of 21-22 year olds in their first job discovering that life doesn't revolve around them.

Gen Y'er- "Yeah, I'm really sticking it to the man in my casual wear and headphones"
The Man - "I don't care what you look like, but if you don't start doing some more work you're going to be fired"

 

[RevenantKioku]

Not really selfish... it's just there is no point getting all dressed up.

You may see no point, but you probably don't want to. And that's understandable this day in age.
If workplace regulations say, wear whatever the fuck you want, go ahead. I'm not gonna tell you to dress up.
But in these situations where people say "No, I'd rather be comfortable." Its selfish. I'd never go into my job wearing something not specified by the company as acceptable, unless I had clearance. If I thought it was stupid to be wearing something at a job, sure I'd question it, bring it up with as high as the higher-ups go, but I'm not going to break standards just because I don't see the point. They're still paying me, so I follow their rules. No laws say I have to wear what I want to work.

 

[atomsk]

i wish my company was big enough to give me company authorized shorts.

driving around half my day doing deliveries in this fucking heat is no fun in pants. ups/fedex/dhl guys get shorts, but not me. =(

thankfully they dont care that my polo shirt is untucked because they know i spend enough time busting my ass lifting shit i really shouldnt be lifting (by myself), that they'd rather i dont overheat.

i do get to wear my doc's though. (i think any other shoe i wouldve had wouldve been torn the fuck up by now)

i dont mind buisiness casual at all, i just mind driving around in a van with no AC when it's 105 degrees out in a pair of pants...

 

[DarienA]

As someone who works "for IT", I'm not coming to work in a dress shirt tie and slacks so I can crawl under your dusty ass desk to figure out if you've pulled any of your damn cables out of the wall... thank you.

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

...your server room is in serious need of ventilation... our server room is like an ice box, easily the coldest room in our building.

 

[tedtropy]

As soon as you have to climb under desks to wire crap and work in 110 degree server rooms, then we'll discuss why IT guys wear jeans and a t-shirt.

If your server rooms are 110 degrees, I think you got other matters to worry about other than attire. My office is inside a server room and my testicles are ice cubes (spheres, technically) for most of the day.

 

[LM4sure]

Unfortunately my company has not caught on...for men at least. Women get to wear whatever the fuck they want for the most part, while men are forced to wear a suit. A FUCKIN SUIT!!! How is that fair?

 

[atomsk]

...your server room is in serious need of ventilation... our server room is like an ice box, easily the coldest room in our building.

i've been in the server room in one of the Caterpillar IT locations out here near Peoria, and it's pretty goddamn frosty. loud too. (considering sheer amout of x336/x346/x366's there are, this is a given)

 

[Nerevar]

....

I hate all you fucking hippies who wear your sandals to work.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm currently doing some seasonal work at a printing factory. Their clothes guidelines include things like "Don't wear extremely baggy clothes that would get caught in a machine." and "Don't wear anything but 100% cotton shirts in the press room, so if you catch on fire your shirt will just burn away rather than melting weird material into your skin." Now those are helpful hints.

 

[MaverickX9]

When did Generation X turn into Generation Y?

I think I missed it.

 

[Error Macro]

I've been wearing whatever the eff I want to work for the past few years, but I'm really getting tired of it actually. I guess I'm maturing, growing up, whatever, but I'm looking to change my whole wardrobe. I want to wear dress pants/shirts/shoes, ties, maybe the occasional suit, just because I want to be and feel more professional. I'm part owner in a mortgage and real estate company, and I've been mainly doing behind the scenes work like loan processing, computer maintenance, office tasks, etc. But the agents in there have this lackadaisical attitude also. They come in to work in whatever. I'm getting pretty tired of it. I'm thinking we need to institute some sort of basic dress code. I want our office to look more professional, because it really reflects to the potential customer as to the quality of your work, at least in their eyes.

 

[Mejilan]

Hmmm, my boss is out this week. I'll see if I can sneak some jeans days... Yeah, Wednesday. I'm leaving early for a doctor appointment anyway.

(NY-based mega-insurance company... fairly strict in the dress code.)

 

[Macam]

The rules changed over ten years ago. How is this news every year?

 

[Phoenix]

I've had a lot of positions in a lot of IT shops for nearly 15 years now and to be honest, no one cared about how I was dressing unless we were going to meet with a customer.

Now I will say for certain that you dress has an impact on how you are perceived within your environment. I remember when I first interviewed with Microsoft back in 92 and people thought I was a new hire for the business group (interviews were over several days and I was dressed nice everyday).

While being comfortable is definitely something to be sought after, being comfortable in dress also seems to lead to people feeling more comfortable with not being professional and that is for certain a problem in many groups that I've dealt with. When the 'air of monkeysuits' was gone, people just acted like they were on vacation or in a college lab.

I routinely wear jeans and a nice shirt to work everyday and will continue to do so until I'm not in the mood to do so.

 

[pollo]

Hah i showed this to my boss and he just kinda chuckled. Im actually one of those kids the article talks about - Ipod headphone and all :lol

 

[SonnyBoy]

I work at UPS as an internal computer tech and I've been killing them because they're so old fashioned.

I dont wear my polo's super small.
My pants aren't ball huggers.
I'll listen to music with my earphones with one plug out so I can hear.
I have a life outside of work :lol

Im 21 btw.

 

[Drensch]

Dress codes are a joke. Obviously you can'y come in in a bikini, but the idea of suit and tie or tie + anything is quite ridiculous. And I love the great lengths they go to fuck with your mind. "Dress business casual" is what my last job told me. WTF?

 

[Nerevar]

And I love the great lengths they go to fuck with your mind. "Dress business casual" is what my last job told me. WTF?

... how is that fucking with your mind? "Business casual" is a really common dress code at most places. It basically means don't dress like you're going to class in college (i.e. no jeans / shorts / t-shirts / sandals - slacks / khakis, collared shirt, and dress shoes required). I honestly think it strikes the best balance between "too businesslike" and "too casual".