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Wow! AKIRA really sucks.
- Thread starter Vieo
- Start date
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evil solrac v3.0
Member
Vieo said:
no, there's nothing wrong with a movie you cant understand. there IS something wrong with you though.
that marine definitely didnt choke you hard enough.
Error Macro
Member
Vampire Hunter D was the first anime I ever saw, and I loved it.
Then, years later, I saw Akira.
I love them both.
WTF
Then, years later, I saw Akira.
I love them both.
WTF
LordPhlegm
Member
No Macross love?
Seriously...
Seriously...
I didn't understand Akira, but I also wasn't prepared for an in-depth story. I only saw it once, and I'll have to see it again. It was one of those movies that I never got around to, and when I finally did I wasn't really prepared for it. Is a subtitled version of Akira hard to find? I find coherent subtitles easier to understand than poor English voice dubs.
But a popular anime that I didn't like was Vampire Hunter D. To me, it's just a dark, violent, boring movie. It's not exceptionally bad or anything, just mostly uninteresting. Though I believe I saw the English dubbed version (that was back before I watched fansubs), so that was surely part of it. I remember thinking the characters were awkward in the way they talked compared to the way they moved... stuff like that.
But a popular anime that I didn't like was Vampire Hunter D. To me, it's just a dark, violent, boring movie. It's not exceptionally bad or anything, just mostly uninteresting. Though I believe I saw the English dubbed version (that was back before I watched fansubs), so that was surely part of it. I remember thinking the characters were awkward in the way they talked compared to the way they moved... stuff like that.
FLCL is just a coming of age/sexual awakening story. It's just told as crazily as possible. But it's mostly innuendo. But if you couldn't get that from the "just swing the bat" episode, you REALLY need to go back to metaphor school.Vieo said:I didn't understand FLCL either, but I think it's supposed to be that way on purpose.
Anyway, your taste in anime is highly suspect, BUT Akira sucks regardless.
Shogmaster
Member
belgurdo said:
Ghost in the Shell had little to do with the manga. GITS movie was Oshii just borrowing the characters and theme from the manga and pretty much doing his own story.
And it made plenty of sense. Maybe more so if you put it on Japanese voice and english subtitle, which was my prefered viewing.
My big problem with Ghost in the Shell was that it was so uneventful. I remember watching it waiting for the main plot to really kick in when I realized about 3/4 of the way through that this was the main plot and that we were on our way to the big final battle.
I've never understood why people made such a big deal out of it. There were a couple decent philosophical ideas in there, but they never translated into any kind of interesting plot or storyline...at all.
Imagine my surprise when Stand Alone Complex turned out to be good. :lol I think it's just that a 30 minute episode makes for a much more ideal format for what GITS wants to accomplish. And for the longer arcing plot, it's not constrained by the limits of a movie and can last as long as needed to adequately flesh it out. So GITS movie = crap. GITS TV series = awesome.
I've never understood why people made such a big deal out of it. There were a couple decent philosophical ideas in there, but they never translated into any kind of interesting plot or storyline...at all.
Imagine my surprise when Stand Alone Complex turned out to be good. :lol I think it's just that a 30 minute episode makes for a much more ideal format for what GITS wants to accomplish. And for the longer arcing plot, it's not constrained by the limits of a movie and can last as long as needed to adequately flesh it out. So GITS movie = crap. GITS TV series = awesome.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I haven't watched Akira in years, but... yeah, I couldn't keep track of what was supposed to be going on, either. However, I'm currently loving it in manga form. I now at least understand why I didn't understand. It's hard to pull off taking a manga of a few thousand pages, and trying to fit the basics of the first third-ish of it into two hours.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Vampire Hunter D >>> Fist of the North Star >> Ghost In The Shell > Akira
The Shadow
Member
Vieo said:
Holy shit! Did I just enter a bizarro backward world where absolute shit like DBZ becomes a model for what "good" anime should be?
Shogmaster
Member
MetatronM said:
I think some folks just can't get into Oshii's directing style. I hear the same things about the 2 Patlabor movies from some folks. I personally love it, but then I don't need them to hit me over th ehead with a hammer for plot lines and such.
I dig GITS:SAC alot as well, but GITS and Innocense is much more an experience for me.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Vampire hunter D:Blood Lust is an Awesome Anime movie. The First one sucked ass tho.
Error Macro
Member
Kabuki Waq said:
WHOA WHOA WHOA
You must be confused.
norinrad21
Banned
teepo said:
IAWTH.
How could anyone forget the tragic tale of tetsuo and those strange kids?
Its too bad the Akira manga only gets mentioned when people talk about the movie.
Really the manga all by itself is an awesome, awesome work and much superior to the movie. It deserved (and still does) its own series, at least 13 episodes will do. If you have not read it, even if youve seen the movie, at least give it a try. There are 6 volumes. I think they reprinted them into smaller editions that total up to 12 but I cant find those. link for volume 1:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...22/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-7622287-9395348
I only cared about the story when first watching FLCL and HATED it. I was constantly waiting for plot developments while watching so everything else about FLCL went unnoticed. At that time I was still recovering from EVA syndrome; that did not help at all. Looking back at it though, FLCL is a work of genius. I'm waiting for a boxset to buy or I'm going with the manga if I cant wait.
Really the manga all by itself is an awesome, awesome work and much superior to the movie. It deserved (and still does) its own series, at least 13 episodes will do. If you have not read it, even if youve seen the movie, at least give it a try. There are 6 volumes. I think they reprinted them into smaller editions that total up to 12 but I cant find those. link for volume 1:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...22/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-7622287-9395348
MetatronM said:
I only cared about the story when first watching FLCL and HATED it. I was constantly waiting for plot developments while watching so everything else about FLCL went unnoticed. At that time I was still recovering from EVA syndrome; that did not help at all. Looking back at it though, FLCL is a work of genius. I'm waiting for a boxset to buy or I'm going with the manga if I cant wait.
Yes, the story in the movie is disjointed, confusing, abrupt, and pretty crap. But the thing is that Akira is meant to be a really really cool extra for fans of the manga. It's not a stand alone film by any means. Nothing is explained and most of the characters are one dimensional at best because the people that are the target audience for the film already have all the background info and knowledge from reading the huge manga. Hell nothing at all was said about the damn title character of the movie except that the he was a kid, the creepy kids knew him and he blew up Tokyo for unknown reasons... he might be an experiment of some sort, maybe. I bet all of this is explained in depth in the manga.
Edit: Watching the movie I really got the sense that they just took some of the most important events in the manga and threw them together with stunning animation. I think if I ever get around to reading the manga and THEN watch the movie then my appreciation for it will go up a hundred-fold.
Edit: Watching the movie I really got the sense that they just took some of the most important events in the manga and threw them together with stunning animation. I think if I ever get around to reading the manga and THEN watch the movie then my appreciation for it will go up a hundred-fold.
I found Akira's story to be average as well...the animation and art, however, I still find amazing compared to recent anime
EDIT: for what it's worth, the manga is even better than the movie (at least..the volumes that cover what goes on in the movie...haven't read past then) though it is naturally lacking the movie's excellent animation
EDIT: for what it's worth, the manga is even better than the movie (at least..the volumes that cover what goes on in the movie...haven't read past then) though it is naturally lacking the movie's excellent animation
Azih's assessment is correct.
The anime is meant as a supplement to the manga. Manga is huge over there, and I'm sure Akira was and is one of the biggest. I'm sure had some insane readership, probably upwards of a million, and even that may be a conservative estimate. Therefore, they could make a movie that left stuff out for the sake of animating the most visually exciting events and skip covering a lot of the more subdued, story-driven stuff, because a vast majority of it's viewers were going to know the story already and could easily fill in those holes.
The anime is meant as a supplement to the manga. Manga is huge over there, and I'm sure Akira was and is one of the biggest. I'm sure had some insane readership, probably upwards of a million, and even that may be a conservative estimate. Therefore, they could make a movie that left stuff out for the sake of animating the most visually exciting events and skip covering a lot of the more subdued, story-driven stuff, because a vast majority of it's viewers were going to know the story already and could easily fill in those holes.
Cruel Bastard Mario said:
Indeed.
I own almost every single copy of Akira, including Laserdisc, VHS, SVHS and several production reports.
I can not say anything other than that Akira is my favorite movie of alltime.
But this only counts for the original english dub from 1987.
The plot was even harder to follow then!
Zelda-Bitch
Member
Dragonball Z? :lol :lol :lol
Macross = shits all over every other mecha anime out there. That's right Gundam fans, I poo on your anime!LordPhlegm said:
Personally I think Patlabor 2 was one of Oshii's best works. It takes several viewings to suck in everything he pumps out, same with Otomo's films/stories.Shogmaster said:
As for the Akira plot generally, I thought it was fine and made the point rather well. Otomo certainly did a good job of squashing the manga.
Willco said:
That's a bit harsh. Akira is flawed, sure, but a complete failure? It looked beautiful, was technically impressive, and had the Star Child ending - shit, it's kinda like watching 2001, and that doesn't generally get written off as a failure.
Kudos to the DVD release's new subtitle translation, by the way. I thought it was a lot more coherant than the original dub release, even if they weren't quite going to the Olympics.
FnooooooorrrrrdChaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnn!
FnordChan said:
2001 is also bat shit insane crazy and a failure.
I shouldn't have to be tied down by a novel or manga or an online FAQ to view, enjoy and understand a movie.
Akira looks great. There is no doubt about it. It's a spectacle and fun to watch, but at the very core, a film should be a coherent story (even if it's stupid!) and there is almost no coherency in Akira whatsoever.
I appreciate what the film has done for mainstream anime and its impact on not just that particular genre, but animation in general. Its technical aspects are certainly worthy of accolades, but if you want to see a movie, it's a failure.
I think you need to see a truly incoherent movie before you lay into Akira for being incoherent.
I haven't seen it in a long time, but is it really that hard to follow? I wouldn't expect a viewer to have all the answers or anything, but there is a pretty easy-to-follow story of a troubled teenage being subjected to government experiments and everything going totally wrong. The disaster he brings about wipes the slate clean for the establishment of a new regime. Whiners at least understood that much, right? There are things that won't immediately make sense, but it's certainly not hopelessly abstract or anything like that. You guys make it sound like a Joyce novel or something.
Is the manga published in black and white? I recall the Marvel series being in color.
I haven't seen it in a long time, but is it really that hard to follow? I wouldn't expect a viewer to have all the answers or anything, but there is a pretty easy-to-follow story of a troubled teenage being subjected to government experiments and everything going totally wrong. The disaster he brings about wipes the slate clean for the establishment of a new regime. Whiners at least understood that much, right? There are things that won't immediately make sense, but it's certainly not hopelessly abstract or anything like that. You guys make it sound like a Joyce novel or something.
Is the manga published in black and white? I recall the Marvel series being in color.
Dark Horse's releases are B&W, yes.
You can save a bit on the first GN by getting the Barnes & Noble Classic Manga edition, it's $14.95 (and hardcover) as opposed to the original printing, which is $24.95... unfortunately, I've seen nothing about them doing B&N editions of the other 5 volumes, so you're stuck with the $25 price tag on those.
You can save a bit on the first GN by getting the Barnes & Noble Classic Manga edition, it's $14.95 (and hardcover) as opposed to the original printing, which is $24.95... unfortunately, I've seen nothing about them doing B&N editions of the other 5 volumes, so you're stuck with the $25 price tag on those.
Willco said:
No, its bat shit awesome.
Ah, here's where we get to the "agree to disagree" bit of the conversation:
1) Akira isn't that incoherent. Muddled? Sure. Too much light show wanking at the end? Yeah. But it still makes a rough sort of sense:
The government made a bunch of psychics, one escapes and encouters our heroes which causes Tetsuo's own powers to be unleashed, Tetsuo is captured and escapes in gloriously messy fashion, everyone tries to stop him, Tokyo is destroyed (again), Tetsuo's powers go out of control, this dead psychic kid Akira shows up to help Tetsuo work through his childhood problems with pictures of Lilly (or something like that), the survivors go off to pick up the pieces. The end.
Could it have had a tighter story? Oh sure, but it works reasonably well, certainly well enough to provide a framework to hang glorious animation on.
2) A coherent story is hardly necessary for a good movie. Of course, I'm a big Buñuel fan, so I would say that. Now, I'm not saying that Akira was necessarily trying to be the kind of movie where a coherent story isn't really necessary, but that doesn't mean that film can be good without having a coherent, standard plot.
So, yeah, agreeing about disagreeing and all that.
FnordChan
border said:
That's not much an argument. Akira is not incoherent because there are other more incoherent movies out there? Weak. I'm not saying Akira is the most incoherent movie ever made, just that it is incoherent.
Just because some of the plot points are understandable doesn't excuse the fact that it's a mess of a film and makes almost no sense.
Again, apologists point to manga and stuff that I should read to understand the film. If Akira is indeed a so-called supplement to the manga, then they should've released the manga with the film. And no one should ever have to read something to understand a movie.
FnordChan said:
Superb technical effects does not a film make. I've had friends fall asleep during that movie. For what it's worth, I like it.
... Could it have almost any resemblance of a story? The film never really has a real protagonist and so many confusing things happen near the end that make absolutely no sense to the casual viewer. I was completely lost the first time I saw it.
The film is entitled Akira and yet, I had no fucking clue what Akira was or is despite the fact that he/it is a central part of the story. I guess.
It's definitely necessary. Now don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Akira for what it's worth. It's not necessarily a horrible movie, even though it really doesn't work as one. And I think you can appreciate images for their artistic value, but I go to the cinema (like most people) to be entertained and see a story, and only one half of this equation was fulfilled with Akira.
... The story is a mess and there's really no arguing that. I hate seeing elitists jump on people when they mark this as a criticism, because most of the time it's legit and people just get way too defensive. The comparison to Dragonball Z is laughable, though.
I guess I'll bite.
I never needed anything but the Akira movie to understand the Akira movie. Could it have been a little more clear? Yes, but the pieces are all there. It's a story about humanity's relationship with power(actually, the jail scene with Kei and Kaneda pretty much sums it all up). Actually, when I eventually read the manga I was disappointed because the manga rambles, horribly, for a thousand pages. People keep saying the manga is better, but I'm one of the few who liked the movie much better. At least the movie is concise, and not to mention has an ending that doesn't leave you thinking why you bothered.
I never needed anything but the Akira movie to understand the Akira movie. Could it have been a little more clear? Yes, but the pieces are all there. It's a story about humanity's relationship with power(actually, the jail scene with Kei and Kaneda pretty much sums it all up). Actually, when I eventually read the manga I was disappointed because the manga rambles, horribly, for a thousand pages. People keep saying the manga is better, but I'm one of the few who liked the movie much better. At least the movie is concise, and not to mention has an ending that doesn't leave you thinking why you bothered.
2001 sucks and is boring. Ghost in the Shell too.
"Makes almost no sense"? The film gives you a huge chunk of the story; you're hyperbolizing when you reduce it to just "a few plot points" that are cohesive. Akira is a story that doesn't give you everything, but you can very easily put together the main thrust of the narrative without background information.
I was 14 or 15 when I saw the movie and was pretty easily able to understand that Akira was the previous psychokinetic disaster child that wiped out Tokyo. If you didn't get that then you may have just been too bored or frustrated with the movie by the time those revelations came around. And if you didn't get that, then I guess I can understand why you didn't understand it very easily.
The point being that you don't really have a grasp on what truly makes a film incoherent. It's the total lack of meaning or sense, as is found in something like Un Chien Andolou....a series of completely unconnected, mostly abstract vignettes that even according to the makers say has no meaning.Willco said:
"Makes almost no sense"? The film gives you a huge chunk of the story; you're hyperbolizing when you reduce it to just "a few plot points" that are cohesive. Akira is a story that doesn't give you everything, but you can very easily put together the main thrust of the narrative without background information.
I was 14 or 15 when I saw the movie and was pretty easily able to understand that Akira was the previous psychokinetic disaster child that wiped out Tokyo. If you didn't get that then you may have just been too bored or frustrated with the movie by the time those revelations came around. And if you didn't get that, then I guess I can understand why you didn't understand it very easily.
Well, like I said, at the time and market it was released in, the manga was huge and widely-read, so there was an understanding that the intended audience wouldn't need things explained in detail, so they chose not to bog it down with all that.
I agree it's kinda weak that it doesn't stand on it's own, but it's no different than, say, the Transformers movie or the X-files movie, which didn't pad their content with re-explaining the entire "story so far" for the uninitiated. It's a nice sentiment, save for the fact that it suffers in the future, for people not viewing within the context of the backstory being well-known among the viewers at the time of release. Some wish they'd do that for superhero movies; most people know Spider-man's origin, so that origin retelling is 50 minutes you can use for other stuff. But at the same time, it's a necessary evil to make the movie accessable, both now to non-fans and in the future in case Spider-man's origin fades out of the realm of common knowledge.
So I agree that it is a big failing for the long run, but the intention is admirable.
What do I do if I want to read the comic book in color? Was it Marvel that went in and added color or did they get Otomo and company to do it?
I collected the Marvel version when I was a kid in the mid-90's, but I was never able to get the whole set or get them into any discernible kind of order.....so it didn't do me much good to flip through them. I just remember it being real different from the movies.....like, Akira shows up for the last 10-20 issues, and isn't just some vision at the end? Am I remembering that right?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
My understanding is that a huge amount was cut from the western release, so that some suplots disappear altogether-- hence some confusion.
It's been 15 years since I've seen it, so I can't really comment on the quality. My take on it at the time was that it was "ok."
It's been 15 years since I've seen it, so I can't really comment on the quality. My take on it at the time was that it was "ok."
Willco said:
Tell your friends to drop by my place sometime. If they passed out during 2001, they're going to love the original Solaris. Meanwhile, I'm rather fond of 2001 myself.
At any rate, back to Akira.
You mean aside from the one I outlined above? It's a bit vague on some of the details near the end, granted, but Akira doesn't lack for a story.
(Plot in film)
Again, disagree vehemently. Some of my favorite films include Luis Buñuel's The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (wherein six upper class twits attempt to sit down for dinner) or Godfrey Reggio's cautionary Koyaanisqatsi (a visual montage of humanity versus nature, set to a Philip Glass score). Discreet Charm has the vaguest hint of a story at best, but doesn't need one to be wonderfully surreal, blackly humorous satire. Koyaanisqatsi disposes of characters, dialogue, and plot entirely and simply shows images set to music, yet it's astoundingly effective. And so on and so forth.
If there's anything necessary in film, I believe it's the ability to create some sort of an emotional response in the viewer - which may or may not have anything to do with a typical dramatic plot whatsoever.
Once more, I'm not saying that Akira is trying to be this type of film - it's a obviously a straightforward action movie - but the notion that film has to have a plot gets on my nerves enough that I can't help but rant about it.
Okay, that's probably more than enough pseudo-film school rambling for one day.
Hey, at least we can completely agree about something!
FnordChan
Duck of Death
Member
Damnit FnordChan. I'm sitting here trying to organize my thoughts into a compelling argument, but you've said EVERYTHING I had in mind. Now I feel worthless.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Don't feel worthess. We have an awesome God!
Duck of Death said:Damnit FnordChan. I'm sitting here trying to organize my thoughts into a compelling argument, but you've said EVERYTHING I had in mind. Now I feel worthless.
Hurrah! That is, of course, why I'm a GAF regular - to make others feel worthless!
Meanwhile, I'm praying that Jack Chick does a tract on the dangers of Japanese cartoons.
FnordChan
border said:
I never read the color version of Akira that Marvel published (through it's Epic imprint, by the way), but I do know that the colorization was done on the American end. I'm not sure if the Epic version was ever completed, either. That said, if you do want to read the Akira manga, Dark Horse did a really bang-up job with their edition.
FnordChan
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