AngmarsKing701
Member
Congrats and good luck!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|
- Thread starter AngmarsKing701
- Start date
Congrats and good luck!
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
So I'm going through my own Maus type situation right now. My dad recently sold his rights to a big movie studio for a possible movie about his time in Vietnam. Now, my dad's kind of a con man, and he knows how to get the most bang for his buck in these kind of situations. He wants to get them to publish an old book of his about his experience(as well as push another completely unrelated book of his) but before that, he needs to transcribe it onto Word. Originally he was going to pay me hilariously little to do it(it's like 500 plus pages), but through shenanigans I'm now not getting paid but only doing the first half.
My dad has rarely mentioned Vietnam ever. He is one of the most composed people I know, and I once told him that, and he laughed saying "I was a basket case when i got back." In my twenty plus years of living, I only got maybe three details about Vietnam from him; a little bit about him watching anti air fire with his friends at night, a little bit about the tunnels, and a little bit about him choking his friends wife when he was back because nudged him awake. That's all I got. And now I am transcribing his entire war experience. Surreal is the only way to describe it. Barely into the war too. The first eighty pages is straight up just all the different woman he's slept with before he went to war(none of them my mom, incase you were wondering). The first part of this book is a mess. Either way, this is proving to be more of an emotional experience than I really bargained for, and the idea of me ghost writing it is kind of... I don't know how I feel about it now.
What's really killing me is how he used to want to be a writer, and now I'm trying really hard to become one. It's like all of his mummified ambitions have suddenly fallen on my shoulders and just... blah. And that's been my current project. Sorry, I just kinda needed to type out some of my thoughts here. I mean, it is writing related. I have the constantly crashing word processor to prove it.
My dad has rarely mentioned Vietnam ever. He is one of the most composed people I know, and I once told him that, and he laughed saying "I was a basket case when i got back." In my twenty plus years of living, I only got maybe three details about Vietnam from him; a little bit about him watching anti air fire with his friends at night, a little bit about the tunnels, and a little bit about him choking his friends wife when he was back because nudged him awake. That's all I got. And now I am transcribing his entire war experience. Surreal is the only way to describe it. Barely into the war too. The first eighty pages is straight up just all the different woman he's slept with before he went to war(none of them my mom, incase you were wondering). The first part of this book is a mess. Either way, this is proving to be more of an emotional experience than I really bargained for, and the idea of me ghost writing it is kind of... I don't know how I feel about it now.
What's really killing me is how he used to want to be a writer, and now I'm trying really hard to become one. It's like all of his mummified ambitions have suddenly fallen on my shoulders and just... blah. And that's been my current project. Sorry, I just kinda needed to type out some of my thoughts here. I mean, it is writing related. I have the constantly crashing word processor to prove it.
AngmarsKing701
Member
I bought it a year or so ago and have been pleased with it, but I'll readily admit that I'm basically using it as a word processor. I know there's a ton of other capabilities it has but I'm simply not using them.
The struggle to actually write is real these days. I find the struggle to learn more about the word processing tool I'm using (or not) to write (or not) is more real-er.. um-er.
Ah, I see. I was mainly interested because of how much people praise its ease of organization, among other things. This is because I'm never really sure of how long I should make each chapter, let alone how many there should be in a book. I know there may not be any concrete rules in that regard, but what do you all think?
struggling to figure out a good way to update a chapter in my rewrite...
struggling for days...
finally dawns on me...
I already covered most of the stuff in the chapter earlier in my rewrite, the chapter is mostly pointless now so screw it.
it's odd that my big break through the block is basically figuring out I don't have to do it >.<;
for me.
a Chapter should be as long as it needs to be to complete a scene (or in cases of really long scenes until you hit a natural pause)
min 500 words, max 20k words
but I tend to actively ignore writing rules so yeah >.>;
struggling for days...
finally dawns on me...
I already covered most of the stuff in the chapter earlier in my rewrite, the chapter is mostly pointless now so screw it.
it's odd that my big break through the block is basically figuring out I don't have to do it >.<;
for me.
a Chapter should be as long as it needs to be to complete a scene (or in cases of really long scenes until you hit a natural pause)
min 500 words, max 20k words
but I tend to actively ignore writing rules so yeah >.>;
I found that going through Scrivener's tutorials makes it easier to understand. Check out the video tutorials, the interactive tutorial, and take a look at the manual.
yeah, I did the interactive tutorial once and it's great. Even if you're not planning to use a lot of features it's good to know they're there.
breakthroughs are weird.
after finally figuring out that the stuff I was working on was mostly pointless.
I sat down and wrote out the bit that still had a point.
and ended up adding over 2k words to the length of my chapter compared to the original that I deemed mostly pointless @_@
plus side. I am mostly happy with the chapter, got 5.5k words written tonight after not having written since last thursday.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
This might be a bit of an abstract request, but does anyone have advice on how to write a convincing xenophobe (who is actually a good person?)
I'm doing a multiple PoV story and I'm showing the thoughts of both the oppressed and those who happen to be on the oppressing side, and it is significantly easier to write the "good guys" than it is to write the guys who were born raised with propaganda. I don't want them to seem like dicks. I want them to seem like that's just their way of life and give them room to evolve in a believable way.
I also feel like an asshole writing the guys on the wrong side, but I suppose that's a good thing.
I don't know what I'm asking for, exactly. Like, is this a good idea? Where has it been done before?
I'm doing a multiple PoV story and I'm showing the thoughts of both the oppressed and those who happen to be on the oppressing side, and it is significantly easier to write the "good guys" than it is to write the guys who were born raised with propaganda. I don't want them to seem like dicks. I want them to seem like that's just their way of life and give them room to evolve in a believable way.
I also feel like an asshole writing the guys on the wrong side, but I suppose that's a good thing.
I don't know what I'm asking for, exactly. Like, is this a good idea? Where has it been done before?
Have a character assume stereotypes; generally want to avoid contact with another culture and people, and things related to it; being ignorant about others. And eventually learn away from that, because otherwise they will end up looking like a dick and a racist most likely.
Can be subtle, can be overt. Perhaps this is visible in a character's actions, eg, repeatedly have them order "Good Guys" beer rather than that foreign stuff, even if the foreign stuff is generally well liked and the Good Guys stuff is not. Or have them switch to other side of a street when they see a foreigner coming toward them.
Stereotypes a character holds might be shown in thoughts, like the character thinking about foreigners as "Those [possible negative adjective here] guys". Thinking might change over the course of the story, with the negative thoughts vanishing.
I do think you will need something that will force a change in thinking though. Whether it is from living among foreigners to having another character's example affect the xenophobe.
As for the "is this a good idea part" and "has this been done". Sure, it is a good idea. Giving people examples, fictional or real of becoming more open-minded is always good. And it has been done. Not a book but Zootopia (Disney animation) addresses racism, and arguably matches your question.
EDIT That is, it is a good idea if you portray it as wrong and learning as right. As Cyan says, sympathetic portrayal of xenophobia/racism isn't good.
And now i'm trying to recall what TV Tropes trope would be about this...
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Hey guess what I've done? I typed out 50,000 plus words over four days. I can basically feel the carpal tunnel settle into my joints.
Neoleo2143
Member
I think the Xenophobic good guy hero is actually a little more prevalent than we think it is. I recall movies like American Sniper fitting into this category.
It's a good writing tool but what exactly is the point you are trying to make when portraying an oppressive side positively while showing the viewpoint of the oppressed? Are you trying to answer why the oppressors don't see themselves as oppressive? Because you don't really need to portray the characters "positively" to do that, you should focus on the setting elements of propaganda and its relationship with dehumanization. At best, the characters on the oppressors' side should be conveyed neutrally initially because this perspective is what allows them grow in the audience's eyes. They kinda have to seem like dicks to get the point across at first.
On your question of evolving your characters from propaganda, the key to this question is going from dehumanization to humanizing the oppressed and seeing them as your equal as humans. Because that is what creates empathy. First show that they can have empathy for each other before this development (that way the audience knows that these characters can feel empathy and not be robots) but at least they should be nonchalant to the plight of the oppressed before eventually giving a damn later on.
Edit: Also, you should read this blog, http://exploringbelievability.blogspot.com/, it's got a lot of really good tips on this idea of "humanizing" and what you need to be careful about in this topic.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yes, this (these, actually) characters are meant to grow out of their xenophobia, but I wanted to present it as a sort of life shattering realization. What they accepted as truth and "just the way things are" turns out to be dead wrong. Not only that, it turns out to be inherently evil. How does one adjust to that? How do they view themselves after that? I obviously need
A) A catalyst (got this already)
B) Time for them to doubt what they know
C) A turning point (Getting here without it seeming sudden is key)
D) A sort of fallout/coming to terms with a change in world view
Thanks so much for the input, it was very insightful. It will help me get from B to C.
A) A catalyst (got this already)
B) Time for them to doubt what they know
C) A turning point (Getting here without it seeming sudden is key)
D) A sort of fallout/coming to terms with a change in world view
Thanks so much for the input, it was very insightful. It will help me get from B to C.
so... I know there is young adult novels and stuff like hunger games can be consdiered that.
my question is how much violence can be in such books before they just turn into adult same with lanaguage.
I have no plans for written sex scenes so that isn't a worry.
but I do have times where people's arms are severed, or a scene where a character is nailed through his palms til a pillar to be left to slowly bleed out. some slightly graphic other death such as describing a young girl watch her father's head get ripped off in front of her in light details.
also while I have avoided words like Fuck, what about Shit, or Damn it, Screw you, You ass hole... are they to far?
Mostly I am just doing what feels right in a scene, while sort of aiming for young adult, but I am not sure what makes something young adult.
my question is how much violence can be in such books before they just turn into adult same with lanaguage.
I have no plans for written sex scenes so that isn't a worry.
but I do have times where people's arms are severed, or a scene where a character is nailed through his palms til a pillar to be left to slowly bleed out. some slightly graphic other death such as describing a young girl watch her father's head get ripped off in front of her in light details.
also while I have avoided words like Fuck, what about Shit, or Damn it, Screw you, You ass hole... are they to far?
Mostly I am just doing what feels right in a scene, while sort of aiming for young adult, but I am not sure what makes something young adult.
That is something I'm curious about too, since I have this YA-ish horror idea that would involve characters getting killed off.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
My answer to this is always: as much as the story needs.
You can always take out some of the violence and cursing in edits once you get some test reader feedback.
When it comes to YA and markets, I've seen plenty of agents go, "I want it dark and edgy now" because that's what's starting to sell. Was probably always selling. I wouldn't stress about it.
My current YA novel has a good deal of cursing because kids swear. It's also got some violence/horror stuff because it's a horror novel. I don't know if that's been a positive or negative when it comes to agents taking a look, but it's what the story needs to be a good story.
And shit, if you end up writing an adult story with kid characters...well, so what? The Talisman is basically that, and that novel is absolutely amazing. Better than any YA novel I've ever read.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Ive been transcribing my dads old war novel about Vietnam for him. Its a very long book. Im doing the first half and my sister did the last.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
So...to practice my writing skills I've decided to write a Peanuts fanfiction story...
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12058731/1/A-Peanuts-Tale
It's not the greatest thing in the world, I admit, but the characters in the Peanuts world are extremely interesting and easy to write for. I'm making sure I reach 2,000 words a chapter and 1 chapter a week at minimum.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12058731/1/A-Peanuts-Tale
It's not the greatest thing in the world, I admit, but the characters in the Peanuts world are extremely interesting and easy to write for. I'm making sure I reach 2,000 words a chapter and 1 chapter a week at minimum.
basically what I am doing right now.
at this point I am not caring about much more than getting the story out.'
thanks for the response.
After a long slump of having no ideas, I finally got one. I was reading Dead Wake by Erik Larson, and I thought "wouldn't it be cool if one of these ships got taken over by the mob? And it turned into some kind of weird government conspiracy, like if the Philadelphia Experiment had been going on for 30 years before the rumors about it?"
So now I have a rough outline for what I'm currently calling "sci-fi noir Die Hard on an early 20th century cruise liner". Now I just need to get the motivation and follow through to write it.
So now I have a rough outline for what I'm currently calling "sci-fi noir Die Hard on an early 20th century cruise liner". Now I just need to get the motivation and follow through to write it.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
That sounds really neat!
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Ugh. Less than a two hour turnaround for that rejection
Stings man.
Stings man.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
.
so... how stupid of an idea would it be to post my story on something like Patreon in what I consider alpha version. (super rough draft that isn't all that edited, basically just posting what I write without spending much time correcting things)
perhaps eventually post the revised beta version when I get to it. (second run of it with a decent amount of editing corrections)
and from there work towards publishing a fully edited version (likely via self publishing) ?
keep in mind that I already have 27 chapters done that go across a little over 2 books and am currently planning for more like 14 books total. Having a decent amount of feedback/fans could really help me when I go to full publish as I want to make sure I have as few inconsistencies as I can. which already takes a lot of effort just in two books since i love to set up stuff well in advance of it being important.
Also my goal isn't so much to make money from the Patreon as much as it would be to try to get a few dedicated readers (and to try to push myself to at least posting a chapter once a week even if it is in really rough format as it would keep me working). I imagine there are more focused websites for such a thing, but I feel like I need to keep my writing away from normal writing communities because of how anime inspired my writing is and patreon is something a number of my friends use for their creative works.
I mean obviously my immediate plan is to just send it to a few people I trust privately, but I am curious for the long term plan that I likely won't hit for a while @_@
sorry for the rambling, I am on my sleeping meds and ramble when tired >.<: just something I wanted to ask anyways.
perhaps eventually post the revised beta version when I get to it. (second run of it with a decent amount of editing corrections)
and from there work towards publishing a fully edited version (likely via self publishing) ?
keep in mind that I already have 27 chapters done that go across a little over 2 books and am currently planning for more like 14 books total. Having a decent amount of feedback/fans could really help me when I go to full publish as I want to make sure I have as few inconsistencies as I can. which already takes a lot of effort just in two books since i love to set up stuff well in advance of it being important.
Also my goal isn't so much to make money from the Patreon as much as it would be to try to get a few dedicated readers (and to try to push myself to at least posting a chapter once a week even if it is in really rough format as it would keep me working). I imagine there are more focused websites for such a thing, but I feel like I need to keep my writing away from normal writing communities because of how anime inspired my writing is and patreon is something a number of my friends use for their creative works.
I mean obviously my immediate plan is to just send it to a few people I trust privately, but I am curious for the long term plan that I likely won't hit for a while @_@
sorry for the rambling, I am on my sleeping meds and ramble when tired >.<: just something I wanted to ask anyways.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Well, Patreon is set up for continuous payments for continuous content. This sounds like that for what, 27 weeks and then what? Once you start editing, are you just gonna keep reposting the same stuff then? What's the incentive I guess?
If all your looking for is a fanbase/feedback, there are plenty of free blogging tools out there. Removes the paywall, which ideally means more people are willing to look at your stuff.
Ideally.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Yeah, I'm also of the mind that if you post up an alpha read, will it really grab a fanbase? Will people really want to read something of yours that's rough with mistakes, or would they be grabbed by polish content?
well I would ideally keep writing new stuff.
quick look it seems it took 18 weeks to make 27 chapters.
my goal would be to do at least one chapter a week, building a back stock if I can.
If I did shift to editing my goal would still be to release a new alpha chapter each week and just also release an edited chapter as well.
also you don't have to set a paywall for patreon at all and I likely wouldn't hide any content behind a paywall, if I did anything it would be something like AMA or side stuff that likely won't be in the posted content such as the songs I work on for the story.
it likely wouldn't attract much of a fanbase, but the goal wouldn't be to build up a big fanbase but more ideally get a few people who enjoy telling me I screwed something up
I mean I keep decently detailed notes on stuff (I have 156 files dedicated to my story that has 27 chapters right now, granted 45 of those files are detailed outlines for the first 45 chapters... though the outlines are so out of date they are only barely of use to me anymore lol) so it's not like I want others to do all the work for me, but I miss stuff, especially since I like to layer stuff.
the whole post was mostly just me thinking out loud though.
My most likely path ahead to get feedback for stuff like the basic idea and what not is just ask around a little bit and see if anyone willingly wants to read my story after I tell them how horrible it is
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I'm trying to remember(mostly because I never do this) what's the etiquette about querying a rejection letter for a short story, asking bits like "Why did this get rejected so I might improve it for the future" or some snazz like that? Can't remember if that was a faux pas or not.
Don't. If they haven't provided personal feedback, you're not going to get it.
GregHorrorShow
Neo Member
Got some feedback from a developmental editor which means doing a rewrite and changing the structure of the novel.
I kind of knew this would be the case but I was hoping deep down it wouldn't require too much more work. It'll benefit in the long run though, I know.
And also she did have some complimentary things to say about my writing so there were positives in there as well.
I'm currently working on another novel but I haven't decided how to deal with the rewrite yet... would you guys go back to the first one now and start the rewrite or wait until you've finished the second book? They are in the same universe but not linked by characters/events.
Or maybe I could do both?
I kind of knew this would be the case but I was hoping deep down it wouldn't require too much more work. It'll benefit in the long run though, I know.
And also she did have some complimentary things to say about my writing so there were positives in there as well.
I'm currently working on another novel but I haven't decided how to deal with the rewrite yet... would you guys go back to the first one now and start the rewrite or wait until you've finished the second book? They are in the same universe but not linked by characters/events.
Or maybe I could do both?
Dolla Dolla
Member
I find it beneficial, for a brief period of time, to set aside work that has recently received feedback and to come back to it when the feedback isn't as fresh on your mind so you can look at it in a different light. Working on your second novel could provide a bit of space and perspective.
I received a cute little notebook on my birthday from a friend and I thought I could use this one to improve my writing and vocabulary as I already have one for story/world building/characters. Any suggestions on some good practices that I can do at work or during my commute? Currently I'm using it as a vocabulary bank of sorts; not sure how useful that is but it's what I came up with so far.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I have recently taken to jotting down things/moments/themes from stuff I like and just letting it kind of digest in the back of my mind from that point.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
How much fun do you folks get with creating fictional towns and cities? Moreover, how do you end up choosing where to set them?
I choose that shit at random.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
I've been going back and forth on what to work on next, and I might just suck it up and jump into Toyland, which is basically Toy Story + Grand Theft Auto. It's a story I've been kicking around since 2012 and don't foresee it being a very long narrative. There's still some prework that needs to be done in regards to world building, such as how drugs work, but the plot itself is basically: chess piece gets fucked up, chess piece somehow steels a major GIJoe weapon, chess piece then goes on a rampage.
I guess the thing is, I gotta think about things like weapons. Most toy soldiers have shaped guns that don't do anything. They're just, you know, plastic. Some have spring-loaded guns, but not your average--or at least not when I was a kid.
The device the chess piece gets will be the only "real" weapon in the book in that it can kill. Everything else would have to be from like, the environment (such as dropping a heavy book on someone or using a power drill)
So yeah. Shit to work out. I expect the premise is completely unpublishable, so there's a certain level of "waste of time" to this, but i do think it would be a fun read if I do it right.
I guess the thing is, I gotta think about things like weapons. Most toy soldiers have shaped guns that don't do anything. They're just, you know, plastic. Some have spring-loaded guns, but not your average--or at least not when I was a kid.
The device the chess piece gets will be the only "real" weapon in the book in that it can kill. Everything else would have to be from like, the environment (such as dropping a heavy book on someone or using a power drill)
So yeah. Shit to work out. I expect the premise is completely unpublishable, so there's a certain level of "waste of time" to this, but i do think it would be a fun read if I do it right.
MY MAN ^_^
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Actually, I'm not a man.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
More a figure of speech, but noted for the future
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
If we're actually doing pitches I've got a few I've written down last week, might actually be fun.
Valdfellgar
Banned
Oh this is cool, I didn't know Gaf had a writing OT. I'm actually working on converting one of my screenplays into a novel (potentially 150,000-170,000 words in the end.) since producers never bit.
I actually also did some ghost writing to make ends meat last year. Was a grueling job where this guy, known I guess for writing mediocre scifi novel series, hired me like he apparently always does with ghost writers to write his works for him.
Was really difficult because he had a swarm of half worked ideas that-- well-- didn't fit together or felt really hokey. Ended up reworking his novel, which he was really happy with, seeing as the last two writers had bailed on him, but in the end decided he wanted to rework the story further.
He'd also wanted it on a super tight deadline. Ended up writing 120,000 words in like two months five days a week with barely any time to edit for typos. Was fun though, and a little ego boosting as he liked my writing so much he wanted me to come back and further rework the book.
Anyone else dipped into ghost writing to make a little cash? Also hi, I'm new.
I actually also did some ghost writing to make ends meat last year. Was a grueling job where this guy, known I guess for writing mediocre scifi novel series, hired me like he apparently always does with ghost writers to write his works for him.
Was really difficult because he had a swarm of half worked ideas that-- well-- didn't fit together or felt really hokey. Ended up reworking his novel, which he was really happy with, seeing as the last two writers had bailed on him, but in the end decided he wanted to rework the story further.
He'd also wanted it on a super tight deadline. Ended up writing 120,000 words in like two months five days a week with barely any time to edit for typos. Was fun though, and a little ego boosting as he liked my writing so much he wanted me to come back and further rework the book.
Anyone else dipped into ghost writing to make a little cash? Also hi, I'm new.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
No, but I am super curious. How did you get into it?
GregHorrorShow
Neo Member
Thanks, I was thinking this might be a good way to approach - although I suppose doing the re-write will improve my writing as well so maybe I'll do that first. Cheers for the input!
Valdfellgar
Banned
I'll provide a TLDR at the bottom cause it's kinda (understatement) a long story:
Back in late 2014 I was working on getting my Fiance (Wife now), who lived in India at the time, over to the U.S. through a K-1 Fiance Visa. Needing extra money as my screenwriting career hadn't yet taken off (still hasn't stupid Hollywood and their pension for remakes and sequels) I turned to freelancing.
At the time I set up an account on Elance.com, although they've since shutdown and merged with Upwork.com. It was a fairly smooth process, involved making a profile, providing samples of my work and setting a price. It helped, I think, that I had a contest win under my belt: my script Valdfellgar, about a time-traveling Vampire hunter slaughtering Vampires hidden throughout time to avert his time's apocalypse, won third place in the Storypros screenwriting contest: http://www.storypros.com/excerpts/VALDFELLGAR by Thomas Daniell.pdf
The soul crushing aspect of freelancing like this is, especially when you're starting out, you're basically 10 dollars an hour tier, even if writing is hard work.
My first job wasn't novel ghostwriting on there, that didn't come till later. The first job I got chosen for was to help some small time Australian Producer take a thriller novel called Dark Horse and adapt it into a screenplay. The book was about some woman who was losing her ranch thanks to a divorce and took one last trip up the nearby mountain where she became trapped thanks to a horrid storm and was forced to take shelter in the mountain's lone cabin. There she meets a mysterious man etc. etc. might be going crazy, etc. etc.
Initially the job was billed as me having to eventually write the screenplay after helping to summarize the novels contents. However, the project was supposedly picked up by some big producer back here in the U.S. (although if I recall nothing ever came of his involvement with this woman.) Throughout the project he spit-balled ideas with me to bring about a new ending (he didn't enjoy the book's 'third act'.) It quickly became apparent that he wasn't really interested in my ideas, which I did offer, but rather wanted me to tell him how genius his ideas were (They weren't.) Either way I was happy to be making some money from my writing. But as that producer came into play he decided to set aside the project and reserve it for her when she became ready.
Instead he shunted me off to two other novels: Sweet Damage, a story about a supremely anti-social girl plagued by the deaths of her parents and her involvement with a young man who moves in as her tenant. And another book, the name's escaping me, about a woman and her girlfriends getting a mother's weekend away and becoming victims of two thugs who beat them and tied them up while searching their vacation house for something they buried years ago. In both cases I summarized the books for him, got paid, but was transferred onto the next before I could actually flex my writing skills (There was always an excuse waiting 'oops I didn't have the rights squared away yet' or whatever). I think he really just wanted someone to do the busy work for him, which I was fine with, I just wish he'd been upfront about it.
Eventually this guy disappeared, I assume he either got tired of my results or become flustered with his efforts on Dark Horse, or maybe I summarized all the books he had rights to. After sometime I found a second job, this time for a Texas based individual who supposedly already had an agent for his sci-fi/political drama TV series pilot. If I recall correctly he had a half-written series bible that detailed certain characters far more than others (the women were especially underwritten. I believe one character's entire purpose and focus was on becoming a mother.)
That one took a lot of effort. I had to flesh out characters he hadn't bothered to do anything with, yet were important to the story. Then I had to adapt and dramatize his outline, which I believe changed several times before I was even done with the first draft, as he kept adding in content and overestimated how much he could fit into a 60 minute TV pilot. This job was more frustrating as the notes he gave were often grammatically incorrect, making it difficult to understand what he wanted. Eventually he went away happy with the script, but then came back with notes he wanted me to add in that he'd scribbled onto a print out copy and then scanned back in. Unfortunately his handwriting was illegible in numerous places, making it difficult to understand what he actually wanted me to change or rework.
Getting away from that job I'd managed to build up enough of a reputation on the website to update my pricing a little and, with completed jobs under my belt, appear as a worthy investment. Screenwriting gigs are difficult to find on there. Either it's work like I described above, or people asking you to help them write their screenplay and then network for them (which is, like, if I had the networking ability would I really be doing any of this freelance work?)
So I turned my attention to the novel/book writing. It took a bit but I lucked into this guy who wrote numerous Sci-fi series self-published books on Amazon. He gave me a writing sample test, asking me to write 5,000 words on some one off idea and when I produced favorable results he assigned me to a new sci-fi book series he was working on.
He didn't actually show me his other work, I think it was supposed to be a secret that he turned to Ghostwriters much of the time. He'd fabricated his own writing persona, with a fake name and a fake life in Florida (he lived somewhere else.) I basically connected the dots looking at his past Elance job listings, which either called for work on a few different novels, or asked for voice actors to create audio book versions of his older work. The reviews were often middling for his stuff. Complaints about shallow characters, poorly thought out concepts, a bizarre obsession with popcorn humor, etc.
Anyway I took the job and began learning that there was way more to this work than met the eye. For starters, he'd neglected to mention he'd already had a previous writer attempt to adapt his notes. This guy had apparently done about four chapters and called it quits. So at first I was working from this guy's efforts, which were very middle of the road. I added a lot of personality, character, and my own special touches with my style. He loved it, was actually super thrilled.
But once I got further in I started having to work with his notes instead of the previous writer's copy. That was harder, as his ideas were less fleshed out and it required more work to adapt. Then I noticed something. After a few more chapters I discovered that the writing style changed again. Finally he came clean and admitted I was actually the third writer to work for him on this project. From there things got completed and while it was enlightening, fun at times, and even ego boosting-- there was this inescapable frustration/depression of "I'm putting in all this effort, injecting ideas that help to round out this work, even in someways make it my own, and my name won't be on it in the end."
Eventually I finished his book, it took a total of three months, one of those spent almost entirely rewriting his original outline, which he approved of, once it became clear his notes were too jumbled. (He'd apparently cut multiple chapters into multiple smaller chapters and reordered them, which meant nothing made sense.) By the end of it he decided he wanted to rework the book further, but I was preparing to head out to India to help my Fiance with her application, and by this point I'd decided Ghostwriting wasn't for me. I need some form of recognition for my effort. We parted on good terms though, and he checked in with me later in the year to ask if I'd reconsider working for him (I guess he'd been that happy with my efforts) and even wished me the best when I told him I was working on my own novel. Really buttered me up to saying I'd go far with my talent.
TLDR Version:
Go to a place like Elance.com (Now Upwork.com) make a profile, put some samples of your writing work or ability on there. Mention any contests or awards if possible, set a price for yourself and begin applying for jobs posted on the website. As you become 'known' you can increase your price and even opt in to new jobs for clients less willing to work with newbies.
Don't expect your name to show up on the finished product, or for there to always be one as you're often initially working with amateurs themselves. Supposedly, once you get good enough, you can create your own website and market yourself to bigger and better clients (I know Carrie Fisher, after Star Wars, made a huge killing as a Ghostwriter in Hollywood/Script doctor.)
AngmarsKing701
Member
Thanks for sharing this! It's my first time hearing about ghost writers; I mean I knew sort of knew this kind of thing is probably happening in the back of my mind but it's very interesting to hear a first hand story. Is this type of work legal though? Like if some ghost writer decided to spill the beans (if they can prove it), does the "author" face any consequences legally?
Valdfellgar
Banned
Thanks! I do apologize for the wall of text >< I just wanted to be thorough for anyone curious about the profession.
I'm no expert on Ghostwriting, but I did do some research when I first started looking into the work. It's perfectly legal as I understand it. It's much the same way many autobiographies get written. For example Trump's book "The Art of the Deal" lists both Trump and his co-author, even though Trump never actually wrote a word of it. In some cases Ghost Writers get credit like this (I think I remember reading during my research that Tom Clancy would sometimes use ghost writers. He'd provide them with an outline or idea and they'd write it for him. In those cases the Ghost Writers are credited on the cover. Ex: A story by Tom Clancy as told to by Blankety Mc Blanker.) but in others the benefactor prefers to remain the listed creator of the work, or perhaps a publishing company uses a group of authors in order to churn out a series of books under one pen name.
I can talk about my experiences because none of my clients had me sign or agree to any kind of non-disclosure deal. I imagine in more high-profile examples of Ghost Writing that can happen. If you're just getting into Ghost Writing the chances anyone will make you sign an NDA are extremely unlikely. You're just sort of expected not to say anything and it's also why I haven't given up which writer it was I worked for, would be bad form even if I don't plan on doing Ghostwriting again any time soon.
Ghost writing happens all the time as there's a plethora of people who fancy themselves writers, or storytellers, but aren't willing to put in the time and effort to craft their own work, not when their checkbook can do it for them.