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[jarrod]

Eh, all the games you listed outside Riddick are pretty inconsequental... it's like arguing XBox has great JP support thanks to Team Ninja, Sega and some old SNK ports. Not to say XBox's EU support is comparable to their JP situation, but when you're bringing up tiny releases thant can't crack 50k like Moto GP, Yager or Enclave it sorta shows the desperation.

Sony's European advantage is huge, both in marketchare and mindshare... moreso than any other region in fact. And really, development echoes that, any Euro XBox games being targeted at the US market mainly.

Truthfully, I'd say Sony has the advantage in every region for support, though XBox at least comes close in America.

 

[Ghost]

Eh, all the games you listed outside Riddick are pretty inconsequental... it's like arguing XBox has great JP support thanks to Team Ninja, Sega and some old SNK ports. Not to say XBox's EU support is comparable to their JP situation, but when you're bringing up tiny releases thant can't crack 50k like Moto GP, Yager or Enclave it sorta shows the desperation.

Sony's European advantage is huge, both in marketchare and mindshare... moreso than any other region in fact. And really, development echoes that, any Euro XBox games being targeted at the US market mainly.

Truthfully, I'd say Sony has the advantage in every region for support, though XBox at least comes close in America.

You quote developers like Warthog, Core Design and Reflections, creators of 3 of the biggest let downs this gen, and Melbourne house whose only 'achievement' was a mediocre Transformers title and some poor racers and you say the teams i mentioned are inconsequential?

Yager, Moto GP, Enclave and Deathrow might have sold poorly but they are still great exclusive titles.

Nice attempt to u-turn the discussion from 'support' to 'sales', but i never said the games sold better on xbox, thats got nothing to do with which system the developers support. Niether has whether or not they are aimed at Europe or how many consoles each company sold.

 

[Shompola]

Xbox is definitely a hot subject for european developers and will increase.

 

[jarrod]

You quote developers like Warthog, Core Design and Reflections, creators of 3 of the biggest let downs this gen, and Melbourne house whose only 'achievement' was a mediocre Transformers title and some poor racers and you say the teams i mentioned are inconsequential?

Even a dissapointing Tomb Raider or Driver carries more weight than any of the games you mentioned... bottom line is that in Europe, PS2 still comes first. It's the base platform for everything, from FIFA to BurnOut... XBox might get plenty of ports sure but then again so does GameCube in western markets. PS@ is by default "the standard" this generation, XBox & GameCube are fringe consoles at best in every region.

Yager, Moto GP, Enclave and Deathrow might have sold poorly but they are still great exclusive titles.

You mean great exclusive PC ports? Sounds like the US market to me, only unimportant.

Nice attempt to u-turn the discussion from 'support' to 'sales', but i never said the games sold better on xbox, thats got nothing to do with which system the developers support. Niether has whether or not they are aimed at Europe or how many consoles each company sold.

Support and sales go hand in hand, I've yet to see any 100% exclusive XBox games aimed primairily at the European market. But please, by all means keep bringing out more obscure XBombs to make your point.

 

[jarrod]

Xbox is definitely a hot subject for european developers and will increase.

Not now, it'll be Xenon discussion for the foreseeable future.

 

[Rhindle]

Even a dissapointing Tomb Raider or Driver carries more weight than any of the games you mentioned... bottom line is that in Europe, PS2 still comes first. It's the base platform for everything, from FIFA to BurnOut... XBox might get plenty of ports sure but then again so does GameCube in western markets. PS@ is by default "the standard" this generation, XBox & GameCube are fringe consoles at best in every region.



You mean great exclusive PC ports? Sounds like the US market to me, only unimportant.



Support and sales go hand in hand, I've yet to see any 100% exclusive XBox games aimed primairily at the European market. But please, by all means keep bringing out more obscure XBombs to make your point.

You're way off base. I would say one of Xbox's biggest strengths has been among European developers (and publishers for that matter).

Tomb Raider on PS2 came about as a result of a bidding war between Sony and Microsoft, which Sony won (and I'm sure Sony regrets winning, given how poorly the game turned out).

The fact that PS2 is the "base" for multplatform games is a bit meaningless -- it is the base simply because it is the constraining technology, not because of any developer preference for it.

Yager, Moto GP, Enclave and Deathrow etc. were NOT PC ports. They were developed for Xbox first and then ported to PC.

As far games "aimed primarily at the European market," there hardly are any on any platform, so why bring that up as a criticism?

 

[6.8]

Yager, Moto GP, Enclave and Deathrow etc. were NOT PC ports. They were developed for Xbox first and then ported to PC.

Don't worry about jarrod. He can't make that distinction.

 

[Ghost]

Even a dissapointing Tomb Raider or Driver carries more weight than any of the games you mentioned... bottom line is that in Europe, PS2 still comes first. It's the base platform for everything, from FIFA to BurnOut... XBox might get plenty of ports sure but then again so does GameCube in western markets. PS@ is by default "the standard" this generation, XBox & GameCube are fringe consoles at best in every region.



You mean great exclusive PC ports? Sounds like the US market to me, only unimportant.



Support and sales go hand in hand, I've yet to see any 100% exclusive XBox games aimed primairily at the European market. But please, by all means keep bringing out more obscure XBombs to make your point.

I admitted that PS2 was the base platform but Xbox ports are just as essential in the eyes of publishers at this point, even though sales arent as high, if the PS2 was the more powerful console this situation my be different but Xbox has this advantage due to being the more powerful platform so little to no concessions are required on the part of developers to port the game to Xbox.

Yager, Moto GP and Enclave were all on Xbox first, in Europe anyway (Yager might have been released on PC first stateside though), Yager also sold well in Germany where it was developed so i wouldnt call it an insignificant title (strangely around the time MS took over second place in the region) Deathrow was never on PC so i dont know what you are talking about with the port comment.

Im not going to continue going round in circles here, so i'll sum it up then im out of here. you said

Sony still has the advantage in European developer support by far

I think ive pretty much pointed out thats not true, xbombs or not MS's 3rd party support over the last 2/3 years from european developers has produced better results, the only exception being GTA which is signed to sony, the majority of european titles appear on both systems which system they are created on doesnt matter, especially considering most games developed on PS2 still end up slightly better tuned on Xbox anyway thanks to the more powerful hardware. You can speak sales all you want but when it comes to the GAMES sony is not "far" ahead at all.

 

[siamesedreamer]

Whoa, the hammer was dropped by the banstick in this thread.

 

[wazoo]

The fact that PS2 is the "base" for multplatform games is a bit meaningless -- it is the base simply because it is the constraining technology, not because of any developer preference for it.

:lol:

 

[jarrod]

Here it comes...

You're way off base. I would say one of Xbox's biggest strengths has been among European developers (and publishers for that matter).

Amusing considering their standing in the Euro market (26 million behind Sony, 500k ahead of Nintendo).

Tomb Raider on PS2 came about as a result of a bidding war between Sony and Microsoft, which Sony won (and I'm sure Sony regrets winning, given how poorly the game turned out).

Tomb Raider isn't the only Core Design game, just one example.

The fact that PS2 is the "base" for multplatform games is a bit meaningless -- it is the base simply because it is the constraining technology, not because of any developer preference for it.

Keep reaching. It's the base platform because the market says it is, by a roughly 70% margin. Developer preference means little in terms of actual support when you can't make it in the market.

Yager, Moto GP, Enclave and Deathrow etc. were NOT PC ports. They were developed for Xbox first and then ported to PC.

Same difference, my point was more about their "exclusivity" than what started where.

As far games "aimed primarily at the European market," there hardly are any on any platform, so why bring that up as a criticism?

Well true, and those that are end up being multiplatform anyway (Asterix, PES, Championship Manager, etc).

Don't worry about jarrod. He can't make that distinction.

No but at least I do fine with the "exclusive" part.

Im not going to continue going round in circles here,

Good, then I won't have to bother with the pile you just shat out.

I think ive pretty much pointed out thats not true, xbombs or not MS's 3rd party support over the last 2/3 years from european developers has produced better results, the only exception being GTA which is signed to sony, the majority of european titles appear on both systems which system they are created on doesnt matter, especially considering most games developed on PS2 still end up slightly better tuned on Xbox anyway thanks to the more powerful hardware. You can speak sales all you want but when it comes to the GAMES sony is not "far" ahead at all.

By the same logic, Nintendo isn't that far behind in western support though, even with Midway/Acclaim/Codemasters jumping ship (or never getting on board in the last case). Most games end up on all 3 platforms in actuality... yet Microsoft has better western support than PS2 in some people's minds. :/

PS2 still has the most significant "exclusive" releases... in every region actually. Even if it's not by as large a scale in the west as the east, they still have more than Microsoft. No denying that.

Hopefully MS can get that whole XNA deal working out or they'll lose XBox's lone developer advantage next gen (simple PC porting).

 

[AlphaSnake]

I read 5 words in this whole thread, and this is easily the stupidest thread of 2004.

 

[6.8]

Same here, I stopped reading after:

I read 5 words in

 

[Scott]

Ah, forgot to mention you can sort the lists by US or UK release and just subtract out the few titles that were only released in the UK.

Yeah, I know, I tinkered around with it all last night.

Even with the UK figures, though, GC & PS2 fall short of even official US numbers (example: GC at 332, compared to Nintendo.com's official list at 350), while XBox gets a little boost. Taking out the UK numbers, PS2 & GC fall way short (by 40-50+ titles each), while the XBox totals line up with what other sources are listing (EB, XBox.com, CC, etc).

Still, even if it's a little behind, the list is still really informative, especially for the UK side of things (release dates, territory exclusives, etc). That's a territory I don't see tackled much in the majority of game databases (ConsoleCity's included, as Japan & US are being worked on still), as they're typically US-only affairs, so it's nice to see a fairly extensive one for once.

 

[jarrod]

Any idea how many different games (not releases) worldwide each platform has? And GBA too?

 

[AirBrian]

Yeah, I know, I tinkered around with it all last night.

Even with the UK figures, though, GC & PS2 fall short of even official US numbers (example: GC at 332, compared to Nintendo.com's official list at 350), while XBox gets a little boost. Taking out the UK numbers, PS2 & GC fall way short (by 40-50+ titles each), while the XBox totals line up with what other sources are listing (EB, XBox.com, CC, etc).

Still, even if it's a little behind, the list is still really informative, especially for the UK side of things (release dates, territory exclusives, etc). That's a territory I don't see tackled much in the majority of game databases (ConsoleCity's included, as Japan & US are being worked on still), as they're typically US-only affairs, so it's nice to see a fairly extensive one for once.

I got some more time in with ConsoleCity's and you're right -- it's definitely more accurate. Great, now I have two lists to watch.

 

[Scott]

Any idea how many different games (not releases) worldwide each platform has? And GBA too?

I honestly don't think there's a list complete enough yet to figure that out... But even if you did find lists for each territory, it'd be a pain in the ass to sort through the duplicates (ie: same game in US, UK, JP, etc), especially with the name changes a lot of games receive.

I know I'm not up for that.

I got some more time in with ConsoleCity's and you're right -- it's definitely more accurate. Great, now I have two lists to watch.

 

[sonycowboy]

Yeah, I know, I tinkered around with it all last night.

Even with the UK figures, though, GC & PS2 fall short of even official US numbers (example: GC at 332, compared to Nintendo.com's official list at 350), while XBox gets a little boost. Taking out the UK numbers, PS2 & GC fall way short (by 40-50+ titles each), while the XBox totals line up with what other sources are listing (EB, XBox.com, CC, etc).

Still, even if it's a little behind, the list is still really informative, especially for the UK side of things (release dates, territory exclusives, etc). That's a territory I don't see tackled much in the majority of game databases (ConsoleCity's included, as Japan & US are being worked on still), as they're typically US-only affairs, so it's nice to see a fairly extensive one for once.

Geez,

You guys should just ask. The definitive listing is based off of any games that has sold a single unit in the US for the current gen systems. This is current as of July 31, 2004.


353 GCN
823 PS2
474 XBX