X-Men Apocalypse Review Thread

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I honestly don't think that matters too much, I feel there's plenty of potential with a competant set of writers to gang/guild warfare in the streets of New Orleans with a smooth talking character that can blow things up.

It's not exactly a difficult sell for a movie with a decent actors and a well written plot you could come up with an entertaining movie. We're not talking about a Gambit in the Xmen doing his schtick, we're talking about a seedy rogue involved in urban warfare given a mutant lick of paint. Doug liman could certainly direct that competantly, all that remains is a decent writing crew and Tatum's acting
I think it's hard to come up with a decent solo movie script for him, the thieves guild arc could be weird for casual audiences. Also his popularity seemed to have faded, when he became a cat person in X-Factor.

Maybe pair him up with X-23.
 
Chris Stuckmann really liked it according to his review. I do generally agree with him on movies so there's still hope yet!
 
I think it's hard to come up with a decent solo movie script for him, the thieves guild arc could be weird for casual audiences. Also his popularity seemed to have faded, when he became a cat person in X-Factor.

Maybe pair him up with X-23.

Why, it should work fine, and they can take as many artistic liberties as they want, which was a given anyway. All you need is kill had a great adaptation that had very little to do with the book itself other than the overall premise.
 
Coming off of First Class and DoFP, I'm admittedly a bit surprised of Apocalyspe's mediocre reception. Maybe it's franchise fatigue on Bryan Singer's part? (Aside from DoFP and the first two X-Men films; he was also the producer/story writer for First Class, which makes Apocalypse his fifth work with the series?).

Third X-Men curse.

Bring Ratner back.

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should have just used the future cast again. that ending mansion scene was beautiful.

could have had more blink too and grown up cyclops and jean and kitty etc.

Outside of Charles nd Magneto, I really didn't care for the future cast, and the past cast already has a good Charles and Magneto
 
It's crazy how well X-men 2 and even Spider-man 2 still hold up. I would actually put Blade 1 in with that group as well for films of that era that I would be willing to put up against any superhero film coming out today from either Marvel, WB, Sony, or Fox.

After BvS which I enjoyed a LOT. Enough to see multiple times I need to see X-men: Apocalypse myself. I rarely trusted film reviewers anyway but I took certain things into consideration but when things are hyperbolic or approach it that's when I shut them out completely.

Also the X-men going back to Marvel would be the worst thing. They don't have the time or resources to have that many balls in the air. Also you could kiss goodbye any serous themes with the X-men if they got them back. At least as serious as they honestly should be. The jokes, and I enjoy Marvel films, would be highly inappropriate. Even more so then they are now with some Marvel Studios films.
Have you actually watched the X-Men movies?
 
I'm not surprised by these reviews at all. All the trailers looked fucking awful. I despised first class with a passion too. DoFP was decent. Though in reality I feel like I've never gotten a proper X-men film. As a longtime comic reader none of the films have measured up. Some of them are very good action films, they are not good X-men films.
 
I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I don't think Singer's X-men movies are completely bereft of what's core to the comics but there are definitely areas where they are sorely lacking - not as films but as an adaptation. Singer gets a lot of stuff right though. His casting is usually pretty good, he incorporates franchise staples like Cerebro and the school very well, everyone's powers work as they should more or less, he keeps the central conflict on point, and he understands Xavier and Magneto. That last point is probably his greatest strength in terms of adapting the source material.

Where he falls short though are some of the more intimate aspects of the X-men. While all the pieces are there, most of the relationships are a superficial facsimile at best, especially in his first two movies. That's because the first two movies use Logan as the POV character and primary protagonist without ever really establishing his role among the X-men. He's still an outsider in X1 and X2, a loner who plays by his own rules. What Singer fails to establish is a sense of family and belonging the X-men are meant to represent. Logan never really becomes part of that family in either of the first X-men movies. This would be fine if Logan weren't the center point to both those films but unfortunately that's how they're constructed. The result is this constant outside looking in perspective which makes the sense of teamwork and unity that's core to the franchise notably absent. There was nothing inherently wrong with making Logan the central protagonist but he never really makes him an X-man. Logan doesn't live at the mansion, he doesn't train with the X-men, and he fails to develop strong believable bonds with the other characters.

When you look at it that way, it's easy to see why so many of the relationships feel off. Logan continually creeps on Jean but why? He has like three conversations with her in X1 before leaving and about the same in X2 before she dies. And it's not like they develop any of their relationship off screen, we literally see everything that ever happens between them because the movies follow Logan so closely. So where does this deep seeded love for Jean come from? This problem extends to his relationship with Cyclops and Storm as well. He's supposed to be rivals with Cyclops but they should also develop a mutual respect between one another and a bond over their love of Jean. That never happens and instead they never go beyond merely hating each other. Logan and Storm's relationship is even worse considering it's basically nonexistent despite their history of being incredibly close in the comics.

So Logan is the center of these movies and yet his relationships with everyone are shallow at best. Everything about them is told to the viewer instead of shown or developed on screen. And with such a strong emphasis on Logan the outsider, Singer spends most of his energy making sure Logan looks badass instead of developing any kind of group dynamic either on or off the battlefield. So Storm, Cyclops, and Jean all get their moments to show off their powers but never as a coordinated team because that doesn't work when Logan fights alone all the time. Instead what you mostly get from them are these brief snippets of special effects in lieu of compelling action sequences. The vast majority of the standout action in X1 and X2 is centered around Logan fighting by his lonesome.

I want to reiterate here that most of this doesn't make for a bad movie if you're willing to focus solely on Logan like Singer wants you to. But if you care at all about doing the other characters justice, you're sore out of luck. To make matters worse, Singer also liked to throw in popular characters as glorified cameos or just shells of their actual comicbook counterparts. Seeing Colossus in X2 for something like five seconds was such a cocktease. Kitty Pryde is in X1 sorta kinda not really. Lady Deathstrike is a major villain in X2 but shares no similarities with her comicbook character apart from her claws. That just stings because the movies can't even get the core relationships right but still flaunts these other beloved characters in front of you. The major exception is Xavier and Magneto whose relationship is pretty damn good. I thought Singer nailed their dynamic in all his films.

I hope that helped illustrate how these movies feel a little hollow. Again, not necessarily as films but definitely as X-men movies. I should also point out that a lot of these problems were much improved in DoFP - mostly because of the decreased focus on Logan and the use of Xavier and Magneto to drive the story forward.

This is good, but I would be more succinct: outside the three main characters (Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto), certain elements like the mansion/Cerebro, and the core mutants-as-minority theme, the Singerverse has treated the source material mainly as a database of character names and power sets.

That's still more respect for the source than other superhero films have shown, before and since, but it's hardly unreasonable for fans to want and expect better at this point.

(I haven't seen Apocalypse, of course, so obviously I can't say how much it diverges from that approach.)
 
This is good, but I would be more succinct: outside the three main characters (Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto), certain elements like the mansion/Cerebro, and the core mutants-as-minority theme, the Singerverse has treated the source material mainly as a database of character names and power sets.

That's still more respect for the source than other superhero films have shown, before and since, but it's hardly unreasonable for fans to want and expect better at this point.

(I haven't seen Apocalypse, of course, so obviously I can't say how much it diverges from that approach.)

Especially after Deadpool and MCU in general comic accurate depctions given some leniency is not a boon anymore, but a plus. I feel with the next film they should try to go for a more faithful adaptation as this style of adaptation is reaching it's conclusion
 
I'll try to answer as best as I can.

I don't think Singer's X-men movies are completely bereft of what's core to the comics but there are definitely areas where they are sorely lacking - not as films but as an adaptation. Singer gets a lot of stuff right though. His casting is usually pretty good, he incorporates franchise staples like Cerebro and the school very well, everyone's powers work as they should more or less, he keeps the central conflict on point, and he understands Xavier and Magneto. That last point is probably his greatest strength in terms of adapting the source material.

--Snip--

I hope that helped illustrate how these movies feel a little hollow. Again, not necessarily as films but definitely as X-men movies. I should also point out that a lot of these problems were much improved in DoFP - mostly because of the decreased focus on Logan and the use of Xavier and Magneto to drive the story forward.
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Maybe they should have killed off Quicksilver in DoFP and let him live in Ultron. Sounds like he steals the show in Apocalypse, but would love to see what they could do with a speedster in future MCU movies.

Nobody mentions Wolvie in any of the reviews I read, so I wonder if he actually makes an appearance or if it's just the SNKKT from the trailers and that's it.
 
This is good, but I would be more succinct: outside the three main characters (Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto), certain elements like the mansion/Cerebro, and the core mutants-as-minority theme, the Singerverse has treated the source material mainly as a database of character names and power sets.

That's still more respect for the source than other superhero films have shown, before and since, but it's hardly unreasonable for fans to want and expect better at this point.

(I haven't seen Apocalypse, of course, so obviously I can't say how much it diverges from that approach.)

That has been my largest problem with the X-Men films, they are still surface level adaptations, even after 16 years and eight movies. They still feel like they haven't evolved from that "let's not go TOO comic book" early days where it was certainly necessary after the 90s left comic book films dead in the water, and you needed to revamp them into being "cool" again.

But that was accomplished long ago, and now in the days of the MCU being the biggest franchise out there, or shows like The Flash going headlong into being legitimate adaptations of their source material, not just "a general blockbuster film with one of the heroes and a couple of the locations". They have dove right into pulling from their comics; the MCU seems determined to lovingly make each and every property they have into something major, no matter how obscure, and the Flash relishes being a comic book show like no other.

The X-Men comics have a ridiculous wealth of material to use, but it seems like they're still at arms length. It's still just revolving around Wolverine/X/Magneto/Mystique and all the other major team members are just there to fill out the ranks, let alone the multitude of other characters or teams or locations you could be focusing on.
That isn't to say the films are all bad or anything, you have some really good ones like X2 or DOFP, or First Class, and of course some total stinkers like Last Stand and Origins (shockingly, these are the ones that butchered characters and concepts the most in favour of pure idiocy). But it all feels like a missed opportunity, because for a franchise called "X-Men", none of the films past maybe First Class actually have focused on the X-Men team.
For all its goofy voice acting, and all its limited animation, the X-Men 90s cartoon was superior at actually adapting X-Men as a property.
 
How much would Xmen cost Disney?

Please no. I cannot imagine a world where Disney would ever risk greenlighting an R-Rated Deadpool movie. Not to mention the number of riskier Marvel projects that would be discarded as soon as they gained access to another one of their guaranteed money-spinners.
 
How much would Xmen cost Disney?

Fox couldn't ask much for it which is why they wont sell.

Fantastic Four for example. Selling that for 500 million would be more than its value at this point. But in the hands of Marvel? Easily passes a billion in a couple of films (something Fox couldn't do in 3 films and counting) and everything else tied up with the rights would extend the MCU another 10 years, at least.

Fox seems to know this, unfortunately.
 
Why would anyone know what that figure might be hypothetically in a future 20 years and 20+ movies away?

Its an unrealistic scenario.

The 20 years I threw out is more for fans than anyone. In 20 years maybe you can start daydreaming about it again.
 
I'm hearing good things about Jean Grey and Cyclops.
That's very good.
And the next X-men movie will be set in the 90's!

Same here...I recall an earlier article that says their burgeoning relationship is done well

One of the aspects of Cyclops and Wolverine that I don't think I've seen explored anywhere that could serve as fuel both for rivalry and kinship is the danger that both of them pose. They both have this incredibly dangerous, destructive force pushing to get out of them (Cyke's uncontrolled Optic blasts and Logan's berserker rage) that they must constantly maintain a sense of discipline to keep from hurting everyone they care about. They can see in each other the thing that the fear about themselves.

That same destruction/control dynamic is what Logan and Jean see in each other as well. And speaking of the inter-personal dynamics, it annoys me that Jean and Ororo's friendship is all but ignored. They have that one mission in X2 to go investigate Nightcrawler, but that could have been any pair really...there was no unique interplay between them to show their bond.
 
Fox couldn't ask much for it which is why they wont sell.

Fantastic Four for example. Selling that for 500 million would be more than its value at this point. But in the hands of Marvel? Easily passes a billion in a couple of films (something Fox couldn't do in 3 films and counting) and everything else tied up with the rights would extend the MCU another 10 years, at least.

Fox seems to know this, unfortunately.

Thanx for a actual answer.
 
That makes no sense when the X-men films make more money than more than half of the Marvel studio Films.

Until DofP Fox's mutant projects couldn't pass 460million world wide. Currently X:A is tracking poorly, and these reviews wont help.

If it wasn't for Deadpool (which Fox fell ass backwards into) I would be predicting news of F4 being sold back to Marvel by the end of the summer.
 
Why would anyone know what that figure might be hypothetically in a future 20 years and 20+ movies away?

Its an unrealistic scenario.

The 20 years I threw out is more for fans than anyone. In 20 years maybe you can start daydreaming about it again.

I hope instead of me wishing Disney buy Xmen, Fox actually end up making some really good movies. I'm not a comic book guy, but Xmen and F4 were my favorite cartoons as a kid. At least with Xmen we have had two good movies I guess. F4 movies have been a trainwreck.

Hopefully I end up liking this on the 17th.
 
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