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[Hollywood]

or..64MB for Cell, 448 for the GPU?

According to a guy on B3D MS may even put more RAM into the system depending on whether it's needed after Sony's PS3 announcement..though I've not idea how credible he is, so take that with a grain of salt for now A spec war sure would be nice, though - all the systems should subsequently benefit.

So it could go up more? What's after 512 MB?? 1024 MB RAM? WOW ....

 

[Doom_Bringer]

So it could go up more? What's after 512 MB?? 1024 MB RAM? WOW ....

786

 

[AntoneM]

What would happen if Xenon has 512MB of RAM while PS3 and/or Rev have less even though they'll be released afterwards?

well the main issue is that the XBox and Xenon use a unified memory system so the CPU, GPU and all other parts fo teh system have to use the same pool of memory, the Revolution and PS3 probably aren't going to be structured that way, likely the Rev and PS3 will have seperate memory for the CPU and GPU so it's hard to compare them. It does put pressure on them though.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Can't possibly be God. God gets things done right the first time.

Not after Service Pack 3.

The universe didn't need service packs.

Yeah. But the human race could sure use a makeover :lol

 

[Nerevar]

512 is adequate, but I'm far more worried about the DVD drive spec (I heard MS is only using 7GB DVDs next gen, a step DOWN from the 9.4GB DVDs) and the PPU unit (Physics will become just as important as Graphics as far as presentation goes, and I want to see some clothes and hair flapping in that godforsaken breeze).

the "7 mb" figure is because a large portion of the 9.4 GB of data will be reserved for copy protection measures. The physical discs will still be 9.4 GB worth of data. And xbox games right now certainly have a large amount of storage space devoted to copy protection, so who knows what the max size of a game is this gen.

And don't get your hopes up on seeing a PPU in any of the consoles this gen.

 

[sol5377]

786

Actually they can go to 576 or 640 (increments of 64) if they really wanted.

The bottom line is that they should pack in as much RAM as they can possibly muster to give the Xenon that much more of a graphical punch AND to make it even more "future proof".

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Yeah. But the human race could sure use a makeover :lol

Freewill baby. Would you rather be a robot?

Also, I would like to say - fuck UMA. Why restrict bandwidth doing that?

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Actually they can go to 576 or 640 (increments of 64) if they really wanted.

The bottom line is that they should pack in as much RAM as they can possibly muster to give the Xenon that much more of a graphical punch AND to make it even more "future proof".

786 is the amount the B3D guy was hinting at. That's why I said 786, but yeah you could be right too

 

[PhatSaqs]

Freewill baby. Would you rather be a robot?

In some cases, sure .

 

[Tenacious-V]

Just a slight correction, it's 768 not 786. 512+256 = 768.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Just a slight correction, it's 768 not 786. 512+256 = 768.

oh yes, my bad.

edit: He actually said 756

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22026&sid=f798648d6d5399bc4289be22c85a91a9

 

[vissione]

.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

the "7 mb" figure is because a large portion of the 9.4 GB of data will be reserved for copy protection measures. The physical discs will still be 9.4 GB worth of data. And xbox games right now certainly have a large amount of storage space devoted to copy protection, so who knows what the max size of a game is this gen.

And don't get your hopes up on seeing a PPU in any of the consoles this gen.

Yeah, I know that already...

Well, Jade Empire is about 6GB while RalliSport 2 is 6.5GB. Those are some DVD9 releases that spring to mind. Is the 7GB figure accurate at all? Still, as games in the future should use higher detailed objects and more detailed textures, I expected much more. I doubt DVD9 will cut it for long.

And are you sure without a doubt that the NEXT-Gen consoles will not see the Ageia Phys-x chip or similar? That's also underwhelming, as it'd probably cost no more than one of those CPUs they want to fit.

 

[Blimblim]

Now I guess we need a nod or a wink from BlimBlim...(?)

I've been quite convinced since a few weeks that there was 512 MB of RAM, but I still do not have any "official" confirmation from one of my sources.
But of course if DuckHuntDog say it is so, then it's a much better confirmation than anything I could ever say

 

[The End]

Umm the Xbox uses single layer 4.7GB DVD. The next step up using the same tech is dual-layered discs that hold ~8.5GB (It's not 4.7x2, the second layer is slightly less dense or the laser would not be able to "see-through" the other layer and read the next layer)

There is nothing wrong with their DVD specs, only that the PS2 already has the ability to use 8.5GB discs, but it has a much more prominent need for the extra space on the optical discs than the current Xbox. 8.5GB seems great for games on the X360.

7/8/9 gigs won't be enough for multiplatform games if devs are targeting the 20/30/40 gig Blu-Ray discs.

 

[Hollywood]

786 is the amount the B3D guy was hinting at. That's why I said 786, but yeah you could be right too

WOW .. thats pretty awesome. Did he say if Microsoft will change anything dependant on PS3's announcement?

 

[Borys]

7/8/9 gigs won't be enough for multiplatform games if devs are targeting the 20/30/40 gig Blu-Ray discs.

The problem is they won't be. Not before PS3 passes 360 sales by which could happen in 2007 or... never?

 

[Doom_Bringer]

WOW .. thats pretty awesome. Did he say if Microsoft will change anything dependant on PS3's announcement?

No, he only mentioned RAM. The specs will be at near lock down stage @ E3 I assume, probably too late to change/upgrade other stuff.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Umm the Xbox uses single layer 4.7GB DVD. The next step up using the same tech is dual-layered discs that hold ~8.5GB (It's not 4.7x2, the second layer is slightly less dense or the laser would not be able to "see-through" the other layer and read the next layer)

Well, I keep forgetting the fact about the second layer of data. Thanks. But there are games on the Xbox that far exceed 4.7GB.

There is nothing wrong with their DVD specs, only that the PS2 already has the ability to use 8.5GB discs, but it has a much more prominent need for the extra space on the optical discs than the current Xbox. 8.5GB seems great for games on the X360.

Err, why would the PS2 need that much more space than the Xbox?

 

[The End]

The problem is they won't be. Not before PS3 passes 360 sales by which could happen in 2007 or... never?

Let's be realistic. The PS3 will pass the X360 in japan a week after it's launched. There will be devs targeting the PS3 as their primary platfrom from that point on.

 

[Blimblim]

Yeah, I know that already...

Well, Jade Empire is about 6GB while RalliSport 2 is 6.5GB. Those are some DVD9 releases that spring to mind. Is the 7GB figure accurate at all? Still, as games in the future should use higher detailed objects and more detailed textures, I expected much more. I doubt DVD9 will cut it for long.

And are you sure without a doubt that the NEXT-Gen consoles will not see the Ageia Phys-x chip or similar? That's also underwhelming, as it'd probably cost no more than one of those CPUs they want to fit.

I don't know about Jade Empire, but Rallisport 2 wasted A LOT of space because of the streaming. Every texture/object/road detail was duplicated quite a number of time on the DVD. It may have looked like a big "open" world for each environment, but in fact every track was completely independant from the other. I guess DiCE has a complete world modeled on a workstation, then a special tool outputed each track so they could stream them. With such a setup you could even have the same texture duplicated quite a few times inside the same track file.
With lots more RAM such a highly optimized streaming setup is quite less necessary, you can more easily have lots more stuff in memory, and use the faster drive to get the one file necessary for your texture/object.
Also keep in mind that CG movies will be less and less necessary. Imagine a FFX like game with next gen graphics. The difference between prerendered and realtime cutscenes much smaller next gen and I'd say true CGs will only be necessary for very detailed scenes. Just check how the Halo 2 cutscenes look (just forget about the textute pop-in of course), and imagine this with lots and lots more polys and effects

 

[PC Gaijin]

Umm the Xbox uses single layer 4.7GB DVD. The next step up using the same tech is dual-layered discs that hold ~8.5GB (It's not 4.7x2, the second layer is slightly less dense or the laser would not be able to "see-through" the other layer and read the next layer)

Umm, what? I thought the Xbox already used dual-layered DVDs. And isn't 7GB around the current limit for Xbox DVDs? Something to do with the copy-protection scheme used.

There is nothing wrong with their DVD specs, only that the PS2 already has the ability to use 8.5GB discs, but it has a much more prominent need for the extra space on the optical discs than the current Xbox. 8.5GB seems great for games on the X360.

Again, what? Why does the PS2 have a greater need for space than Xbox games would?

 

[COCKLES]

Can't possibly be God. God gets things done right the first time.

Not after Service Pack 3.

The universe didn't need service packs.

It could damn well do with some though.

 

[The End]

Again, what? Why does the PS2 have a greater need for space than Xbox games would?

In order to optimize loading times, PS2 games place the same data in multiple locations on the disc. Because the Xbox can cache to the hard drive, this is unnecessary.

 

[Borys]

Let's be realistic. The PS3 will pass the X360 in japan a week after it's launched. There will be devs targeting the PS3 as their primary platfrom from that point on.

I wish and hope that will be true but... stranger things have happened before.

 

[Cathcart]

Sweet. Xbox 360 games should be 8 times better than Xbox games.

 

[Lord Error]

Umm the Xbox uses single layer 4.7GB DVD.

This is not true. Xbox uses dual layed DVDs for games.

 

[Prine]

It could damn well do with some though.

I believe

 

[MassiveAttack]

I wish and hope that will be true but... stranger things have happened before.

Wish? Hope? Pass around some of that potent ganja you're smoking.

 

[Nostromo]

With lots more RAM such a highly optimized streaming setup is quite less necessary, you can more easily have lots more stuff in memory, and use the faster drive to get the one file necessary for your texture/object.

Unfurtanately this is not the case.
You have more ram...but also bigger textures, more geometry, etc..this is xbox 2, not xbox 1 with a memory upgrade.
Memory will be a limitation on xbobx360 as it is/was on xbox1.
Since internal memory is 8 times bigger but 'slow' memory has not expanded with the same rate this kind of problems will be exacerbated even more.
No matter how you look at it, having < 10 GBytes per disc will suck. imho

 

[Izzy]

This is the best news I've heard the whole day. (except for Liverpool going through) 256 MB of RAM just wasn't enough. Hopefully, this'll force Sony and Nintendo to up ther RAM configurations. The more, the better. I'm tired of situations where console makers skimp on RAM.

 

[HokieJoe]

Can't possibly be God. God gets things done right the first time.

Not after Service Pack 3.

The universe didn't need service packs.

:lol

 

[bigNman]

Smart move because if it only had 256 MB then Sony and Nintendo could have dealt a huge blow by having 512MB in their systems. That would have alienated the xbox 360 to some degree.

 

[shpankey]

great news for all gamers if you think about it. as has been said, this will pretty much force both sony and nintendo to consider their ram specs and try to either beat, match, or at least come close to this amount. win, win, win for everybody.

 

[COCKLES]

MS would have been better off making it 256. Then at the last moment changing it to 512MB to give Sony & co. a bloody face. Now it's easy for Sony ect to one-up MS with 700+mb - although I'd be surprised if any went beyond 512MB simply because of costs.

Still. More X360 memory equals = TEH MORE DANCING TEH HAPPY BANANA!

 

[Railer]

I don't know about Jade Empire, but Rallisport 2 wasted A LOT of space because of the streaming.

Jade Empire uses about 3 gig just for movies. So there shoud be quite some space left to use.

 

[Polari]

It's pretty funny reading all these comments like "512MB yeah! 256 was just crap!". A video game console is NOT your PC, ergo you don't really know what you're talking about. This isn't going to limit the number of programs you can run simultaneously. Sure, more is definitely better, but this is something that is much more important to developers than to users.

 

[Izzy]

There's no guarantee Sony will add more RAM to PS3, though. For all we know know they could launch it with 256 MB configuration.

 

[shpankey]

MS would have been better off making it 256. Then at the last moment changing it to 512MB to give Sony & co. a bloody face. Now it's easy for Sony ect to one-up MS with 700+mb - although I'd be surprised if any went beyond 512MB simply because of costs.

this actually would have been bad. because all of the develors would have made their games with 256 in mind, thereby only using half of what it actually had. they would have been pissed also.

 

[Nostromo]

There's no gurarantee Sony will add more RAM to PS3, though. For all we know know they could launch it with 256 MB configuration.

That's not going to happen.
CELL bandwith is too low if it has to be shared with a GPU too, so they must include some additional memory attached to the GPU.
I bet we are going to see a 256 mb (cell) + 256 (nvidia gpu) configuration.

 

[akascream]

It's pretty funny reading all these comments like "512MB yeah! 256 was just crap!". A video game console is NOT your PC, ergo you don't really know what you're talking about. This isn't going to limit the number of programs you can run simultaneously. Sure, more is definitely better, but this is something that is much more important to developers than to users.

Wow.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

MS would have been better off making it 256. Then at the last moment changing it to 512MB to give Sony & co. a bloody face. Now it's easy for Sony ect to one-up MS with 700+mb - although I'd be surprised if any went beyond 512MB simply because of costs.

Still. More X360 memory equals = TEH MORE DANCING TEH HAPPY BANANA!

I was wondering where were the dancing bananas, COCKLES came through.

 

[Striek]

Its funny how peoples attitudes towards the amount of RAM has changed over time. 512Mb used to be seen as the _absolute lower limit_ of what was acceptable. Now its fuck unreal fuck. :lol

 

[Mrbob]

It's pretty funny reading all these comments like "512MB yeah! 256 was just crap!". A video game console is NOT your PC, ergo you don't really know what you're talking about. This isn't going to limit the number of programs you can run simultaneously. Sure, more is definitely better, but this is something that is much more important to developers than to users.

Yes, you're right. It is more important to developers, ergo it becomes more important to users as we'll get more fleshed out games!

 

[bitwise]

Its funny how peoples attitudes towards the amount of RAM has changed over time. 512Mb used to be seen as the _absolute lower limit_ of what was acceptable. Now its fuck unreal fuck. :lol

you are using a PC comparison right?

its kinda different..

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

7/8/9 gigs won't be enough for multiplatform games if devs are targeting the 20/30/40 gig Blu-Ray discs.

So Nintendo will only have to use Blue-Rays to assure 3rd party support

 

[Mama Smurf]

(except for Liverpool going through)

...you've done it again! Goddammit, I'm begging you, keep stuff like that in the off topic forum. There's no "I didn't know some people were on a delay" this time, you said that last time.

 

[element]

Umm the Xbox uses single layer 4.7GB DVD.

Actually all Xbox games use DVD9 discs. Even if a game is only 1 GB, there is information across both layers, either game data or encryption stuff.

I wouldn't believe anyone on B3D that said '756' for RAM in PS3. Anyone with brain would have said 768. Not to mention no one was even hinting that PS3 would have 768 until today when Xenon is said to have 512.

stupid fanboy cock fight.

 

[Striek]

you are using a PC comparison right?

its kinda different..

No, its just that everyone assumed that consoles would be having 512Mb RAM minimum. When 256Mb was first hinted at everyone threw a temper-tantrum, then damage control came round and spun the whole "PC vs. consoles" thing (although true, you all know that would suck in a couple of years, 256), and now that we're back at 512, everyone are praising MS like no tomorrow. Its just funny seeing people get so ecstatic over what they initially thought was a no-brainer :lol

 

[shpankey]

Its funny how peoples attitudes towards the amount of RAM has changed over time. 512Mb used to be seen as the _absolute lower limit_ of what was acceptable. Now its fuck unreal fuck. :lol

say what jr. member? have you even been around here long enough to say that? also, that never happened at GAF, at least on a mass level. if you're talking about a single user or two saying that, then hell, get used to it. GAF certainly has it's fair share of retards. but don't make it out to more than it is. the larger mass of GAF is extremely well informed and in the know. it's just the idiot vocal minority that makes it sometimes look otherwise.