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[Juice]

but the 360s current drought makes the DS launch look robust

I can understand your frustration, but let's not get carried away here. The DS's drought was goddamn dispicable. It launched earlier in November, and many would say it wasn't until late May or June that a second worthwhile game came out for it.

And the DS launch was abysmal aside from Mario 64, which wasn't impressive after 5 minutes.

The Xbox 360's launch isn't very dissimilar from the GameCube's when it launched. Lackluster day 1 titles and lack of surefire killer-app followed by a surefire hit a month later (in this case DOA4) and then a whole lot of nothing on the immediate horizon.

It'll get better, I just wish people would remember that part of the S&M practice of early console adoption is going to mean an indeterminable drought of several months after the console comes out. That's just how it is.

Do I still think Microsoft fumbled just about every single detail of the 360's launch? Absolutely. But we shouldn't point out the fact that they'll have a software drought for a few months after launch when every single modern-day console or handheld launch has seen the exact same thing happen.

 

[shpankey]

Now that the holidays are over it should be clear to anyone that they're really not after "shortage hype,"

I never attributed it to "shortage hype". Read my post again. I think that it may have something to do with the amount of loss they are taking on each system. Perhaps trying to keep from losing too much, trickle out systems until they can go down with the fab process and increase yields. Perhaps in the summer, then pitch the 360 really hard.

 

[terrene]

I never attributed it to "shortage hype". Read my post again.

No. I don't really care what you attribute it to, intentionally holding back stock for any reason at this point is very obvious folly.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Whatever hype was stirred up by the early adopters is all but gone now. I just secured a premium 360 for $375. What.

 

[jedimike]

MS did say the launch window was 90 days... the end of 90 days would be like the 22nd of February. There will be over 20 retail games and 20 arcade games... so 40 games total. That's better than any other launch. Yes, arcade games count. In fact, I still haven't purchased a retail game.

There's plenty to bitch about with the 360 launch. Lack of consoles and accessory pricing would be at the top of my list. However, the games wouldn't even be on my list. I think MS has done a great job in that area.

 

[shpankey]

No. I don't really care what you attribute it to, intentionally holding back stock for any reason at this point is very obvious folly.

And I don't care what you think either, but my point was, if you are going to talk to me about me and what I said, at least get it fucking right.

On point: there is nothing you have said in your reasoning that would lead me to believe otherwise.

 

[Kasra]

Lackluster?

1. Call of Duty 2 90.5%
2. Dead or Alive 4 89.3%
3. Project Gotham Racing 3 88.7%
4. Need for Speed Most Wanted 84.2%
5. Condemned: Criminal Origins X360 82.9%
6. Perfect Dark Zero 82.8%
7. Kameo: Elements of Power 81.2%
8. NBA 2K6 81.2%
9. Peter Jackson's King Kong 81.0


Goddamn, I'd hate to see what the fucking luster requirements are. Out of that list from GR, I have CoD, PGR, DOA, Condemned, and Kameo and I think they're all great. There's no "killer app", but it's hardly fucking lackluster.

 

[methodman]

I just hope that by the time the PS3 comes out, there is a reason for me to buy the Xbox 360 because right now the only game I'm really looking forward to is Oblivion. But, I will buy a 360 if Bioware's game is as good as most of there games (which it probably will be).

 

[Prine]

DOA was released a few weeks ago and fight will be ready in another few weeks. WTF??


Launch was full of top quality games too

 

[methodman]

MS did say the launch window was 90 days... the end of 90 days would be like the 22nd of February. There will be over 20 retail games and 20 arcade games... so 40 games total. That's better than any other launch. Yes, arcade games count. In fact, I still haven't purchased a retail game.

There's plenty to bitch about with the 360 launch. Lack of consoles and accessory pricing would be at the top of my list. However, the games wouldn't even be on my list. I think MS has done a great job in that area.

Arcade games = Virtual Console games, IYO?
Cause then, Nintendo would shit on anyone's launch.

edit: you seem like a nintendo hater, so I gotta ask you that

 

[qirex]

Perhaps trying to keep from losing too much, trickle out systems until they can go down with the fab process and increase yields. Perhaps in the summer, then pitch the 360 really hard.

THat's not how it works, they get costs down by increasing the number of units they put out. Total cost is incremental cost of goods [parts, assembly, shipping] and fixed costs [salaries, marketing, office space, etc.]. Slowing down production would only make the systems cost more.

I know one thing MS changed recently is they switched back to container shipping from air freight which is like a $20/unit difference.

 

[Andy787]

I know that more games are coming around March or so, but the 360s current drought makes the DS launch look robust.

Seriously, wtf? The DS didn't have one worthwhile release for eight (EIGHT!) fucking months (that release being Kirby).

Despite constant assurance of a steady flow of games from Microsoft during the "launch window", we have gotten one (1!!!) game since launch.

At least it's a good one.

 

[Amir0x]

yea..um...no.

qft. The DS launch and subsequent drought was the worst I've ever seen for a mainstream/successful system (at least in the US). Seriously, it's a system that had people pimping Zoo Keeper, freakin' Feel the Magic and a remake of a Nintendo 64 game for like six to eight months.

Once Kirby, Meteos, Advance Wars came it was finally getting better, but before that it was terrible imo.

 

[Suikoguy]

Whatever hype was stirred up by the early adopters is all but gone now. I just secured a premium 360 for $375. What.

Interesting point, MS really dropped the ball on what they could have sold before the compeition came out.

 

[shpankey]

THat's not how it works, they get costs down by increasing the number of units they put out. Total cost is incremental cost of goods [parts, assembly, shipping] and fixed costs [salaries, marketing, office space, etc.]. Slowing down production would only make the systems cost more.

I know one thing MS changed recently is they switched back to container shipping from air freight which is like a $20/unit difference.

actually, chip yields make a huge difference in both cost and the amount of systems they can put out. you will see in several interviews before the launch MSFT execs reffering to them when asked questions about system availability.

 

[AirBrian]

MS did say the launch window was 90 days... the end of 90 days would be like the 22nd of February. There will be over 20 retail games and 20 arcade games... so 40 games total. That's better than any other launch. Yes, arcade games count. In fact, I still haven't purchased a retail game.

There's plenty to bitch about with the 360 launch. Lack of consoles and accessory pricing would be at the top of my list. However, the games wouldn't even be on my list. I think MS has done a great job in that area.

MS really said the launch window was 90 days?

 

[terrene]

And I don't care what you think either, but my point was, if you are going to talk to me about me and what I said, at least get it fucking right.

On point: there is nothing you have said in your reasoning that would lead me to believe otherwise.

lol

Why would anyone bother to provide explanations disproving (self-admitted) baseless speculation? You admitted you were grasping at straws. But think for a moment: would Microsoft rather see their console sales numbers go up, their install base go up, positive reports on their performance, XBox Live sales -- or to sell a few more hard drives to people forced to buy core packs? Even if they were only in the game for accessories, why not produce 2 million core packs, if they've got so much stock?

"Get it fucking right?" Yeah, I'll try and do that next time.

 

[qirex]

actually, chip yields make a huge difference in both cost and the amount of systems they can put out. you will see in several interviews before the launch MSFT execs reffering to them when asked questions about system availability.

The CPU/GPU fab process is only one part of the puzzle and it's another one that doesn't really get solved by going slower. That said, the bottleneck must be somewhere and chip fabbing is the most likely point of problems.

 

[jedimike]

Arcade games = Virtual Console games, IYO?
Cause then, Nintendo would shit on anyone's launch.

edit: you seem like a nintendo hater, so I gotta ask you that

Fist off, I'm not a Nintendo hater... just a Nintendo skeptic. One of those once bitten (closer to 3 or 4), twice shy deals.

Next, AFAIK nobody knows anything about the Nintendo launch titles. Who knows what will be available for download? If Nintendo can produce a decent amount of retail games and a decent amount of classics with added features like scoreboards, on-line play, or achievements, then I would have to agree that it would be a great launch.

What I don't want to see is the classics available for download with no improvements. I wouldn't be against it, it just wouldn't want to make me play them. People aren't downloading Joust, SmashTV, and Gauntlet off of XBL for nostalgic reasons. They want to play them because MS has made the games fresh again with brand new features.

 

[shpankey]

terrene:

"Why would anyone bother to provide explanations disproving (self-admitted) baseless speculation?"

I never asked (or expected) anyone to disprove anything at anytime. WTF are you talking about? If you want to jump in and give your opinions, do so... but I certainly am not expecting you to "provide" anything.


"You admitted you were grasping at straws."

I never said that. I said I was 'just speculating, like anyone else' and that at this point one speculation (mine) is no better or worse than another speculation (anyone elses). This is the second time (directly, third if you count the above) that you have completely misrepresented what I've said. You are going to have to stop that if you want to continue.


"But think for a moment: would Microsoft rather see their console sales numbers go up, their install base go up, positive reports on their performance, XBox Live sales -- or to sell a few more hard drives to people forced to buy core packs? Even if they were only in the game for accessories, why not produce 2 million core packs, if they've got so much stock?"

As I said, I am only speculating, but perhaps it has something to do with loss they are taking on each console. I don't know what that is, but if it was really high, I could see how they would want to not push out a ton of systems right now IF they thought they were going to be able to drastically cut down their cost soon. Again, I don't know, I'm just throwing something out there, don't take it personal, I'm not against MSFT or anyone and not trying to make them look bad. But at this point, until MSFT directly comes out and explains the reason why there are so few systems coming out, when they promised a lot more, all we have is speculation. Don't take offense if I endulge in it... this is a gaming forum afterall.

The CPU/GPU fab process is only one part of the puzzle and it's another one that doesn't really get solved by going slower. That said, the bottleneck must be somewhere and chip fabbing is the most likely point of problems.

Yes it's one part, and is always one of the main culprits for a bottleneck... and no it doesn't get solved by going slower (I don't know why you thought I think that) but as you know, the result of it can certainly decrease the amount of units that can be put out. And I agree, it probably is the point of problems, which is why I brought it up.

 

[----]

360 has a drought? Are you nuts the system hasn't even been out for 2 months yet. :lol

Xbox 360 has like 19 games (most of which are good games) and another like 15 Xbox Live Arcade games. How can you possibly be bored with what's out on 360 already? Plus like someone said in February there's Fight Night and Full Auto.

You not personally liking the games on 360 does not equal a drought. :lol

 

[DaCocoBrova]

There are a lot of 360 owners w/ out broadband believe it or not... That changes things a bit as far as what's avail. to them.

 

[Unison]

360 has a drought? Are you nuts the system hasn't even been out for 2 months yet. :lol

Xbox 360 has like 19 games (most of which are good games) and another like 15 Xbox Live Arcade games. How can you possibly be bored with what's out on 360 already? Plus like someone said in February there's Fight Night and Full Auto.

You not personally liking the games on 360 does not equal a drought. :lol

It's not just about my personal opinion... The "launch window" never happened. That's the point of this thread, bud.

I liked more DS games at this point than I like 360 games right now. :-|

 

[Kasra]

The "launch window" still has like a month and a half left, dude. In which time at least 2 more quality games will come out.

Fucking christ, that's like 7 or 8 really solid games in the "launch window". That's about as many quality games as the Cube got in it's LIFETIME. :lol

Then right after the "launch window" you've got GRAW, Oblivion, Splinter Cell and some other stuff...

What the fuck do you want, man?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I liked more DS games at this point than I like 360 games right now. :-|

i lol'd.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

The "launch window" still has like a month and a half left, dude. In which time at least 2 more quality games will come out.

Fucking christ, that's like 7 or 8 really solid games in the "launch window". That's about as many quality games as the Cube got in it's LIFETIME. :lol

Then right after the "launch window" you've got GRAW, Oblivion, Splinter Cell and some other stuff...

What the fuck do you want, man?

Why are you getting all emotional...? About an XBOX of all things. It's gonna be alright.

 

[Amir0x]

Fucking christ, that's like 7 or 8 really solid games in the "launch window". That's about as many quality games as the Cube got in it's LIFETIME. :lol

:| *cough*

i lol'd.

Don't lol. High quality software like Asphalt GT, Ridge Racer DS and Feel the Magic led the way for third party support. Add to that the awesome value of a game that is inferior to most of the cheap Xbox Live Arcade titles to date, Zoo Keeper, and you got one stellar launch window. Incredible first party software like... Mario 64 DS... and... Mario... well, that game anyway positively made Microsoft's launch of Project Gotham Racing 3, Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo look amateurish by comparrison!

 

[Kasra]

Why are you getting all emotional...? About an XBOX of all things. It's gonna be alright.

:lol

No really :lol

 

[Solid]

It's been what, 2 months and people complain already? There's like 7 solid titles on the 360 already. How many damn games do you guys play per week?!

 

[TheDuce22]

The DS drought was far worse. I had nothing to play but Mario DS for like 3 months. With the 360 there were quite a few above average games that came out at or around launch. I own 5 and feel they were all easily worth the price of admission.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Don't lol. High quality software like Asphalt GT, Ridge Racer DS and Feel the Magic led the way for third party support. Add to that the awesome value of a game that is inferior to most of the cheap Xbox Live Arcade titles to date, Zoo Keeper, and you got one stellar launch window. Incredible first party software like... Mario 64 DS... and... Mario... well, that game anyway positively made Microsoft's launch of Project Gotham Racing 3, Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo look amateurish by comparrison!

yea, i'm sorry. i guess instead of lol'ing at this i should have suggested he get something he'd like more than the 360. like a calculator. or some silly string. maybe a ball of foil.

 

[Andy787]

It's not just about my personal opinion... The "launch window" never happened. That's the point of this thread, bud.

I liked more DS games at this point than I like 360 games right now. :-|

I'm curious as to what you're talking about here.

i lol'd.

Me too.

 

[Amir0x]

yea, i'm sorry. i guess instead of lol'ing at this i should have suggested he get something he'd like more than the 360. like a calculator. or some silly string. maybe a ball of foil.

Thats more like it. Be productive!

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Craig's List for the muhfuckin' win!!! Chea!

Premium 360, 3 controllers = $375.

*Does happy dance*

 

[cvxfreak]

Gamecube's Launch Window

C'mon, Super Smash Bros. Melee was out by then. The fandom for it is amazing.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Craig's List for the muhfuckin' win!!! Chea!

Premium 360, 3 controllers = $375.

*Does happy dance*

How in the fuck did you pull that off? Congrats.

 

[raYne]

MS really said the launch window was 90 days?

Yep. The launch window was always 90 days after the systems debut.

 

[terrene]

I never asked (or expected) anyone to disprove anything at anytime. WTF are you talking about? If you want to jump in and give your opinions, do so... but I certainly am not expecting you to "provide" anything.

Then WTF was this all about?

there is nothing you have said in your reasoning that would lead me to believe otherwise.

Sounds like you want me to play with your baseless conspiracy theory, doesn't it, champ?

You are going to have to stop that if you want to continue.

Well, aren't *I* in the driver's seat! What about if I don't want you to continue?

As I said, I am only speculating, but perhaps it has something to do with loss they are taking on each console. I don't know what that is, but if it was really high, I could see how they would want to not push out a ton of systems right now IF they thought they were going to be able to drastically cut down their cost soon. Again, I don't know, I'm just throwing something out there, don't take it personal, I'm not against MSFT or anyone and not trying to make them look bad. But at this point, until MSFT directly comes out and explains the reason why there are so few systems coming out, when they promised a lot more, all we have is speculation. Don't take offense if I endulge in it... this is a gaming forum afterall.

Look. It's not like there's no thread of reasoning behind what you're saying or that you're off-topic. It's that there are multiple statements by Microsoft on this matter and (even were this not so) much stronger logic/market rationale for MS wanting to ship as many consoles as they can right now. I might have an unfair advantage since I work here and read all the internal discussion lists, but it's pretty obvious to me that MSFT knows they have a problem and are scrambling to make the systems. It seems that it ought to be obvious to anyone really thinking about their goals for market share and the point of launching early in the first place... but again, maybe that's just more apparent to me.

 

[Brandon F]

I'm content with the system, but I also didn't "JUMP IN" until long after launch.

 

[byproduct]

You can't buy an X360 in Australia yet, but it seems like only yesterday that the launch happened in the US. With Call of Duty 2, Dead or Alive 4, Poject Gotham Racing 3, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Condemned, Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, NBA 2K6, Live Arcade AND downloadable demos of other games, AND with 3 good titles due next month, it sounds like a better software situation at launch than any other console has ever had to me.

 

[Nemesis_]

When does Tomb Raider come out?

April 14th, 2006. Hopefully, the game is actually Region Free when it comes out, since most of the third party titles are today. If that's the case, I'll actually get it early rather than a crap ass PAL "TBA" date.

 

[Version 3.0]

Xbox had Halo, which I still play sometimes.

Gamecube had Super Monkey Ball, and Super Smash Bros. Melee within a month, both of which I still play regularly.

PS2 had nothing memorable, and stayed that way for a good while.

DS and PSP had nothing special.

The X360 is definitely on the low end of the scale here, with nothing special and nothing looking standout in the near future. In 5 years, when we look back and name the great games on the 360, I don't think any of the launch window games are going to make the cut. That puts it in good company with the PS2, DS, and PSP. The Gamecube and Xbox can claim launch window games in their 'great games' lineup. So can the N64 and PS1, for that matter (Mario 64 and Ridge Racer).