Mister Wolf
Member
That isn't due to Linux. It's due to Apple's resurgence. If they weren't so money hungry in how they price their hardware, they could definitely take more.
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Xbox Full Screen Experience Coming to PC; November 21 on Windows Handhelds
- Thread starter Topher
- Start date
That isn't due to Linux. It's due to Apple's resurgence. If they weren't so money hungry in how they price their hardware, they could definitely take more.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
This is a less bloaty version of the windows XBOX app...not a less bloaty version of windows, correct?
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
An unspoken truth over all these years has always been that Windows was the place to be when you wanted to play games on your PC, and that games are much more important to users than what was publicly communicated for most of the time. Linux has just started becoming a serious alternative to Windows for gaming and that changes everything. At the same time, even normies are now realizing how shitty this OS is thanks to a host of developments, and macOS can't be run on a PC. I'm not believing as well, just speculating. This is not a contest of faiths.
March Climber
Member
That was always treated as a secondary experience compared to the main consoles. Since this new version is going to be the main interface on their next hybrid console, it's being positioned as more of a priority.
Of course I could always end up wrong, but usually the console itself is given the most attention when it comes to Xbox.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The OS. It turns off services that aren't needed when gaming to free up memory.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yes. I clearly referenced Apple there. And yeah, you are right. Now imagine a not so money hungry Valve whose freely available Steam OS finds its way into gaming PCs being sold at Best Buy in a few years. I'd bet that's what Microsoft is imagining and what they are reacting to.
Mister Wolf
Member
As someone in this thread said. "Who just wants to game, while not doing anything else?" No one wants a PC that comes preinstalled with Linux over Windows or Mac OS. They didn't grow up with that. So even if that Steam Machine is priced reasonably as soon as you tell them it comes with Linux Desktop they are going to tell you "What the fuck is that?"
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MacReady13
Member
It's funny how the Xbox consoles had this figured out years ago, yet they have seemingly abandoned them to try (again) to go for "windows" gaming. Fucking insane. I don't know how or why it is so hard for them to get this right when their consoles did it perfect YEARS ago and it is running great on their current consoles!
lastmessiah
Member
Windows is packaged with a lot more software/services/processes than the Xbox OS. You can't just get rid of it all to appeal to one market (gamers) without dumping the rest of your users. What they shoud've done is branched Windows off into separate builds for distinct purposes (not this Home and Pro bullshit).
ZehDon
Member
100%. As I said in another thread, Microsoft knows how big this is because Valve is following Microsoft's playbook from the Win95 days - get the games, and everything else will follow. Valve have done the impossible with Proton - they made Linux a viable OS for gaming. There's work to be done there - performance isn't always solid - but they've broken the back of it. Microsoft is right to be scared - a free OS that's legitimately competitive at everything? Microsoft would lose a literal fortune.
Topher
Identifies as young
Is that what everyone said when they found out about Steam Deck? Nope. Let be clear here. I'm not saying Windows is being threatened by Linux here. Hardly. The point is every single market share point taken by Linux is money out of Microsoft's pocket and Microsoft is wise to react to that.
I will say that Linux definitely needs to evolve a bit before it will ever be ready for mainstream. Now you've got a company with a hell of a lot of resources putting effort towards that end. That's something Linux has never had before. So you can dismiss the possible future there, but I can guarantee you Microsoft is not.
Yeah, the possible impact of all this 5-10 years down the road is hard to see. Valve isn't stopping. Steam Deck and Steam Machine are going to give way, eventually, to OEMs once Valve feels it is ready. It is good that Microsoft is reacting, but they are already far behind.
lastmessiah
Member
Windows for consumers is really not a huge driver of Microsoft business. It hasn't been for a while. It's why you can easily pirate it or at least find keys that allow you to purchase it cheaply.
Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
It runs the gaming app in a resources protected mode and its only for the Xbox gaming app from what I understand. There was some impact to "other non core systems" which ended up being video compression and processing for game capture or some such.
I read some tech docs on it a bit back, will trudge them up and post them if they are not stupid dev docs.
reinking
Gold Member
Just a guess. I bet you are getting those keys for free, or cheaply, because the sale is no longer the priority when it comes to Windows. It's the data collection/advertising.
Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps, but it is still a solid stream of revenue. That's not something corporate executives like to see dry up. Right now, Windows is pretty much 100% market share of gaming PCs at retailers. Microsoft doesn't want that to change.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Maybe i'm not reading this correctly, but if it's just running the Xbox App itself with these services removed, and not the game apps themselves, how are the games benefiting?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
That doesn't make any sense, if services are disabled, they are disabled.. has nothing to do with 1 application.
What you are talking about would be totally separate from that.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
I was being hyperbolic rather than trying to imply that literally nobody does this. But the vast majority of PC gamers are used to moving in and out of tabs. That's why borderless fullscreen is so popular, and why there is a program to try to force this functionality whenever games don't support borderless fullscreen natively.
MacReady13
Member
I get that but this bullshit they're doing now is in service of gaming, which they already cater to with their consoles!
Killer8
Member
Microsoft will need to work hard to convince me back onto the plantation. I've said in another thread i'm already seriously thinking of doing a combo of Mac Mini for general desktop usage paired with a Steam Machine for my PC gaming. Top to bottom they've turned Windows into a dogshit product and it's little wonder they're losing marketshare year-on-year.
Mister Wolf
Member
Borderless Fullscreen playing Rogue Trader and Pathfinder: WOTR was a must.
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Hero of Spielberg
Member
Just found this link ...
support.microsoft.com
Says it was published in October. I imagine this is the same thing though?
Edit: Someone on Reddit posted a way of accessing it without Windows Insider:
Looks like you'll be able to switch between apps:
Windows Gaming: Full screen experience - Microsoft Support
support.microsoft.com
Says it was published in October. I imagine this is the same thing though?
Edit: Someone on Reddit posted a way of accessing it without Windows Insider:
Looks like you'll be able to switch between apps:
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mayham2199
Member
Yea I've been hearing Linux is going to take over for like 25 years now. This is the first time though that it can actually play a ton of games very well. I do think MS needs to worry now. Between Mac and Linux they could end up losing to much ground. I'm seeing more and more people.
Mister Wolf
Member
Just found this link ...
Windows Gaming: Full screen experience - Microsoft Support
Says it was published in October. I imagine this is the same thing though?
Looks like you'll be able to switch between apps:
My only current complaints with FSE at the moment is the interface could be a bit more snappy, and to my knowledge the only way to get to the Microsoft Store app updates section manually is through Desktop Mode.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Nah it's the subscriptions - office365, one drive, gamepass etc. There aren't any ads in windows, and edge can't bring them much advertising revenue.
playbignbox
Member
And what about those who use Steam? Can they just start it in that mode?
Topher
Identifies as young
You can still do whatever you can do on any other PC
Kenshin775
Member
All those other Windows handhelds have a touchscreen right? Movement with the joystick when navigating is unresponsive as fuck on the white Xbox Ally but it doesn't matter because you can just press on the screen, so I don't mind much. I pray all those other handhelds have a touchscreen or MS optimized it better for handheld navigation or its going to be a disaster.
Topher
Identifies as young
From what I understand, the FSE still has to talk with the windows desktop manager and has all that overhead. This is different from Steam OS which uses gamescope to replace the desktop manager with a game focused interface for the game to talk to.
San Dan Glokta
Member
I've stated before that by far from the big 3 the xbox UI has been the best for a while. And between the xbox console, phone app, and pc app I use they've made leaps and bounds of innovative and QoL improvements that they don't get their flowers for. And seeing this as well does brighten up my day a lot.
Topher
Identifies as young
I think Xbox UI on console is horrid myself. I like the apps on the other devices ok, but they need better menus and navigation for a controller. Still feels like it is meant for keyboard and mouse
Kacho
Gold Member
Yeah, it's excellent. Very easy to get around and extremely snappy. My kids are really good with it too.
It's like Alex and John from DF said, they need to take what they do on Xbox and do that on PC.
San Dan Glokta
Member
I really have to hard disagree with you there bud. Just to make sure I wasn't having recency bias I just checked the UI for the Switch and PS5. I actually like the Switch UI. I think its functional ad the colour and sound pops give it a lot of whimsical life and personality. The PS5 UI on the other hand looks like it was desined in a sterile corporate clinic. I really dislike the milky silky white outlines on everything, it looks and feels unfinished even after all these years.
One thing I love about the ps5 though that a dynamic game clip plays in the background while its highlighted. And I wish there was an option to remove the integration of Gamepass for the people who strictly buy and play discs; since they find it annoying (I personally love it).
Maybe checked it out again?
If MS didn't care about those cheap keys they wouldn't have tried to ban people selling them and lost:
Microsoft loses bid to ban license reselling as UK court gives it the thumbs up
ValueLicensing comes out victorious against Microsoft
EverydayBeast
ChatShitGPT Alpha 0.001
The Nintendo menus is a disgrace, Microsoft's menus and UI's are always orchestrated professionally, you can find things easily.
Topher
Identifies as young
I really have to hard disagree with you there bud. Just to make sure I wasn't having recency bias I just checked the UI for the Switch and PS5. I actually like the Switch UI. I think its functional ad the colour and sound pops give it a lot of whimsical life and personality. The PS5 UI on the other hand looks like it was desined in a sterile corporate clinic. I really dislike the milky silky white outlines on everything, it looks and feels unfinished even after all these years.
One thing I love about the ps5 though that a dynamic game clip plays in the background while its highlighted. And I wish there was an option to remove the integration of Gamepass for the people who strictly buy and play discs; since they find it annoying (I personally love it).
Maybe checked it out again?
Nah....I've used them all plenty. It's just preferences my man. Switch probably has the best, imo, just because how simple they keep it. If it were up to me PS would go back to the XMB. Xbox UI doesn't jive with me for reasons, but that's just me. It will be interesting to see which way they go with Magnus.
Welp, AI agrees with you
San Dan Glokta
. I concede
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DarkShadowXI
Member
What is Windows Insider? Is it worth going through that to get this?
Is that gonna install Office 365 and One Drive if I opt in? lol
I kid, but I'm also 100% serious
Is that gonna install Office 365 and One Drive if I opt in? lol
I kid, but I'm also 100% serious
Roni
Member
The fact that Microsoft isn't taking the opportunity to create an offshoot of Windows called Xbox OS and lock that down to their store, but preserve the NVIDIA driver support and the kernel-level anti-chest required for the GaaS heavy hitters makes me question the leadership.
The idea is pretty anti-consumer. I admit, but it's par for the course with Microsoft's past strategies.
Thanks, GabeN.
The idea is pretty anti-consumer. I admit, but it's par for the course with Microsoft's past strategies.
Thanks, GabeN.
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Topher
Identifies as young
What is Windows Insider? Is it worth going through that to get this?
Is that gonna install Office 365 and One Drive if I opt in? lol
I kid, but I'm also 100% serious
No just certain versions of Windows. I'd wait until they provide more info as to what insider channel you have to be in
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
You present an anti consumer idea then blame the MS leadership for not implementing something like that ...
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Well, seeing as they want to kill off windows 10, I can understand their bullshit reasoning, if they are keeping it to Win11.In the video he says the only difference he noted was the RAM usage. I guess there's some other under the hood tweaks going on there.
Will be interesting to see how it effects the broad swath of desktop testing.
Wish it would retrofit for Win 10 as well
balls of snow
Member
Haha yes. I never touch the screen so much than with a windows handheld. Just that one second delay between hitting the sticks and just waiting for something to happen is just infuriating. If the desktop version is that sluggish we have a problem.
RetroGamingUK
Member
I've been saying this was the plan for months, nice to finally be vindicated.
awwr999999
Member
Windows is making a big mistake.
Users who notice an improvement from this will start wondering just how expensive Windows is in terms of system resources.
That road leads to Linux and the realization that 20 year old PCs/laptops are still usable when you take Windows out of the equation.
Users who notice an improvement from this will start wondering just how expensive Windows is in terms of system resources.
That road leads to Linux and the realization that 20 year old PCs/laptops are still usable when you take Windows out of the equation.
Mister Wolf
Member
awwr999999
Member
Not bad for a bunch of games made to run on Windows.
That would certainly be a much worse decision than what they've already gone with.
SomeNorseGuy
Gold Member
Going to be eating good with all the benchmarks and tests that will come out. And if the community manages to strip it down further it might get even better results.
I might dislike Windows with every fiber of my being, but in the end it's just a means to an end ...playing games on an optimized OS.
I might dislike Windows with every fiber of my being, but in the end it's just a means to an end ...playing games on an optimized OS.