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[Aquamarine]

So, hang on, what happens when you reside in a country where the "participating retail partners" do not exist?

And I am pretty sure that not allowing private reselling of products you purchased is against the law in my country and pretty much in the whole European Union.

Considering how many of XBONE's features are "US only" or work well only in the USA, I would say Microsoft just doesn't give a shit about those countries.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

How will these policies fly in Europe? I know they are more consumer friendly in general over the pond.

Probably will be ok. There recent ruling about first sales doctrine and digital goods by the EU courts just required that digital license be able to be resold.

And since there's a way to trade in/sell/gift Xbone games, that's probably within the law--unless they rule that the "participating retailers" bit is in violation.

 

[strata8]

Really? then buy all digital and let them leave my physical discs alone. I take it you buy everything digital and you love it. Great for you. But I like my physical games to truly own them, not borrow them from a publisher and play it with their "permission".

Everything is moving to digital. If it doesn't happen this generation, it will happen the next. As of now the Xbox One is somewhere between physical and digital and that comes with compromises.

 

[whitehawk]

Question : Can you run the games from the Hard-Drive on XBOX 360?

No, you can't right? You need the DISC.


Why couldn't they just do the same this time, huh?


Please, anyone?

Microsoft wants to sell all their games digitally, but they know that they would be losing a huge market because lots and lots of people still buy retail, and don't have the internet bandwidth to download 20+ GB games. So what they are doing is trying to push as many people as they can to purchase digitally. By removing the pros of physical game (ability to sell, buy used, bring to friends house etc), there is more incentive to just buy digital instead. Microsoft is probably predicting that the majority of games will be sold digitally towards the middle or end of this console life cycle (which could be even longer than the current one), and are preparing themselves for it. However I don't think they have thought about the backlash that will occur from this move. It's to soon to force people to adopt new purchasing habits, and too fast.

 

[Agent Dale Cooper]

The remote possibility of something like that happening, is an argument in my eyes.

I'm just not going to sit here and tell you I play games 8 years after purchasing them on a frequent basis anyway. I get what you're saying, but its just such a non issue to me. I don't buy games expecting to play them in 10 years. They're lucky if I play them more than once.

 

[EternalTruth]

Has it been clarified if verification for Xbox One games could be discontinued in the future (say 5-10 years from now), preventing customers from playing their games altogether?

 

[Mr. Enigma]

So, hang on, what happens when you reside in a country where the "participating retail partners" do not exist?

I think George Carlin said it best: You are SOL and JWF.

Shit out of luck and jolly well fucked.

 

[PanicFreak]

MS is in it because they resent not getting any revenue from used games, not because of pressure. That will become more clear when Sony doesn't have this DRM authentication.

And DIVX was dreamed up by entertainment lawyers, not studios.

Microsoft's games don't have online passes. Sony's do.

That should give you some indication of how they feel about used games.

 

[Dahbomb]

There are hundred thousands of soldiers overseas in places without internet? That can't be true, right?

http://www.foreignpolicydigest.org/u-s-military-stretched-too-thin/

 

[Jest Chillin]

Except this is clearly the result of MS and Sony both wanting to go full digital with their consoles but with the obvious issue of physical media still being popular with their customer base.

With a full digital distribution model most of these hoops could be ignored since you wouldn't own a physical disc. This is the end-result of a weird in-between world where you are physically buying a digital copy via a disc.

That's because for many people in the US (and possibly Canada?) reliable internet service with dependable speeds is still unavailable. There are vasts amounts of territory that aren't developed Metro areas so running the lines to all these places is an expensive endeavor that I'm sure just isn't feasible in a lot of places (lots of privately owned land that owners won't allow lines to be installed in, etc...). Fully Digital Consoles would severely limit the consumer base.

 

[ascii42]

Not everyone can download 25GB+ games on a regular basis.

Certainly true, even with that caveat I feel like having to swap discs is better than, well, this. eek5 seems to disagree, however.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Considering how many of XBONE's features are "US only" or work well only in the USA, I would say Microsoft just doesn't give a shit about those countries.

That would be my guess. The 360 really only sold in North America and Europe so they probably just don't care about other regions as they probably lost money trying to sell in most of them.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

The LIVE infrastructure is just like making an analogy to the network of Apple, Google, or Facebook. Once you start to build up contacts, titles, memories, etc... on one, you start to get vested as a consumer. PSN is the same now for those vested in it.

Nailed it. This is why AOL is still leading, as well. Once you get those subscribers, they're not going anywhere, despite better offerings elsewhere.

 

[Card Boy]

Which would only affect the ONLINE portions of games and have no effect on single player.

Best solution and the best compromise. If second hand players want to play online they have to shell out 10-$15. It beats this 24hr check, locking out single player garbage the Xbone has.

 

[Aquamarine]

Is their been clarification if verification for Xbox One games could be discontinued in the future (say 5-10 years from now), preventing customers from playing their games altogether?

There has been no clarification from Microsoft, and there will probably BE no clarification, because clearly, Microsoft only cares about making anti-consumer decisions.

 

[Epic Drop]

I will never buy an xbone. If sony does this, I will never buy a ps4.

Publishers etc., you have been warned

 

[brandonh83]

You're part of the problem.

My sarcasm must be busted to shit tonight.

 

[davepoobond]

This is fucking awful; but it's better than what we thought.

Which shows you how fucking awful we thought it was going to be.

thats precisely what i think.


i think this is doable to "put up with" if you really need to, but its still bad.

 

[zeopower6]

Everything is moving to digital.

I personally hope this doesn't happen and that we still at least get a choice between digital/physical. Games are getting bigger and bigger as time goes by, ugh.

 

[Fox Mulder]

So, hang on, what happens when you reside in a country where the "participating retail partners" do not exist?

And I am pretty sure that not allowing private reselling of products you purchased is against the law in my country and pretty much in the whole European Union.

They could partner with the largest retailer in your country, they just don't give a shit about the rest of the world.

I personally hope this doesn't happen and that we still at least get a choice between digital/physical. Games are getting bigger and bigger as time goes by, ugh.

I live in rural nc and have no other choice for Internet besides shitty AT&T dsl. Downloading 20gb+ games isn't really possible. If the outrage over DRM didnt push me out of an all digital future, the shitty infrastructure of this country will.

 

[quest]

So I can only resell my games at Gamestop, Bestbuy etc? I don't mind that much considering they usually have trade 2 deals or so. Here in Canada Futureshop tends to even have Trade 1 game for $40. If they just gave us the option for resale (since I like to purchase games from other people rather than retail) I'd be happier. This news is meh... and wow this thread is moving almost as fast as a press conference thread lol.

Lol is there any other industry that restricts where you can resell it's products? I'm hoping game prices come down as in $30-$40 otherwise this is the last console generation. What if I have a gameshop near by that isn't a participating retailer for trade ins? Why are people being punished for supporting the industry?

Only if the publisher enables the selling/gifting/trading option. And they probably can turn it off when every they want if their game is being traded in to much.

 

[rohlfinator]

I'm just not going to sit here and tell you I play games 8 years after purchasing them on a frequent basis anyway. I get what you're saying, but its just such a non issue to me. I don't buy games expecting to play them in 10 years. They're lucky if I play them more than once.

Those goalposts sure moved pretty fast, huh.

 

[jdmonmou]

What if, MS had decided not to sell game discs anymore, download digital only?

I think in that scenario game prices would stay at $60 or possibly go even higher since MS wouldn't have to compete with retail.

The day used games are over with (which is today) and we go digital only on the consoles is the day consoles will die. Everyone will just move to a PC. At least with a PC you have options where you can download your digital games.

A digital only console is obviously where Microsoft is headed with this which is a shame. They're crazy if they think that this business model will survive if the price of games don't come down.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I was speaking to my local Gamestop manager this week and he informed me that Gamestop is currently trying to figure out what to do with Xbox One. That Microsoft might be incentivising GS somehow with the extra overhead of selling used games at a higher cost to the customer and effectively reducing used game sales. I'm not sure how true this is but he stated that GS and MS are currently in negotiations on repercussions of DRM and that GS was largely unaware of this move by Microsoft. He went on to say that over 50% of the overall 360 game sales came from GS and that Microsoft could be shooting themselves in the foot from a retailer perspective, and implied that it is very possible that Xbox One will get less floor space than the WiiU and GS will not promote the console nor hold midnight releases for xbox exclusives. Either way it sounds like the relationship is somewhat strained.

Your avatar moved! O_O

 

[Barakov]

Thanks but no thanks. I'm not buying a XB1 until they roll back some of these bonehead decisions.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

The LIVE infrastructure is just like making an analogy to the network of Apple, Google, or Facebook. Once you start to build up contacts, titles, memories, etc... on one, you start to get vested as a consumer. PSN is the same now for those vested in it.

Can't really agree when the next gen isn't backward compatible, rendering your existing XBLA library irrelevant to the console jump no matter what.

 

[Kinyou]

Has it been clarified if verification for Xbox One games could be discontinued in the future (say 5-10 years from now), preventing customers from playing their games altogether?

To quote Phil Harrison "I don't see this happening"

 

[2MF]

Probably will be ok. There recent ruling about first sales doctrine and digital goods by the EU courts just required that digital license be able to be resold.

And since there's a way to trade in/sell/gift Xbone games, that's probably within the law--unless they rule that the "participating retailers" bit is in violation.

I do think that MS picking who can resell their games amounts to a violation of the law.

 

[GamerSciz]

Everything is moving to digital. If it doesn't happen this generation, it will happen the next. As of now the Xbox One is somewhere between physical and digital and that comes with compromises.

I never want everything to be 100% digital...ever. I always want a "choice". The day the games industry or movie industry goes strictly digital will be a bad day for all.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Microsoft doesn't support Windows XP only 12 years later, and they sold half a billion copies of that. What makes you think they'll support this console for decades?

This is an interesting point, which I'll expand on.

Windows XP still works even without any MS support today. It will continue to work forever and ever on any computer you have it installed on now. When you install Windows, you have to go through a single one-time authentication which can be done over the Internet, or for people without Internet, over the telephone. From that point on, Windows is authenticated forever and will work unless you change computers and install Windows again.

That's a far cry from this scheme which requires you to leave the console connected to the Internet at all times because it preforms authentication every 24 hours to renew your license. If you don't authenticate every 24 hours, all your games will no longer play.

I don't even fathom how this was considered acceptable during the planning stages of the console. Even Steam has an Offline Mode that lets you play your games offline for as long as you want after a single authentication like Windows XP!

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Has it been clarified if verification for Xbox One games could be discontinued in the future (say 5-10 years from now), preventing customers from playing their games altogether?

Nope.

But I expect they would as at some point they'll want people to rebuy them digitally on next gen console emulators (like the Nintendo Virtual console).

Or they could go the other route and just leave everything activated when the servers go down. But I definitely wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

It's not something that affects me much as I don't keep my old consoles anyway. I'd rather buy a game cheap on a virtual console if I want to replay in 10 years down the road than have to hold onto old consoles and not be able to sell them toward buying new ones etc.

But could definitely suck for collectors who keep all their games and hardware.

 

[Issun23]

That would be my guess. The 360 really only sold in North America and Europe so they probably just don't care about other regions as they probably lost money trying to sell in most of them.

I do live in Europe and so do millions of other gamers in countries other than the usual suspects which are served well enough on most occasions (UK, Italy, Germany, Spain and France). The European Union is comprised of 27 countries. In most of these the retail partners often used in game promotions or agreements simply do not exist.

 

[~Kinggi~]

My sarcasm must be busted to shit tonight.

it totally is bro. I was worried for a sec.

 

[Zabka]

Man I've given these assholes so much money on the 360 and now they do this. I feel like I got stabbed in the taint.

 

[Rad-]

Doesn't sound that bad to me.

That family sharing sounds confusing though. No way can it work like it reads there. That would lead to exploiting that system.

 

[VeryGooster]

A couple of unhappy posts on the official Xbox (E3) page.

 

[fritolay]

So, hang on, what happens when you reside in a country where the "participating retail partners" do not exist?

And I am pretty sure that not allowing private reselling of products you purchased is against the law in my country and pretty much in the whole European Union.

And if they decide to let your country or any particular place have different rules, then everyone else is going to be up in arms.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Windows XP still works even without any MS support today. It will continue to work forever and ever on any computer you have it installed on now. When you install Windows, you have to go through a single one-time authentication which can be done over the Internet, or for people without Internet, over the telephone. From that point on, Windows is authenticated forever and will work unless you change computers and install Windows again.

Technically true. But with no more security updates it will become super plagued by viruses, spyware, hacker attacks etc. in the coming years I'd guess (and that's what my IT friends tell me--I know little about computer stuff).

 

[Jhriad]

Seems like GB guys dont seemed pissed about this, I dont know I guess I want to see media and some of my fav peeps in this industry more upset about this.

Media just write it off as "It's Steam" but don't seem to understand that one of the reasons people stick with consoles over PC/Steam is lending/resale/etc. It's easy to not understand this concept when you get press accounts/copies of titles and don't have to pay for a lot of the games you're playing.

 

[CouldBeWorse]

Thanks but no thanks. I'm not buying a XB1 until they roll back some of these bonehead decisions.

Then you won't be buying an Xbox One.

 

[MoosiferX]

Damn, I was busy at work today, and I even defended the XBONE to a customer saying, "Well, the facts aren't in yet and hopefully by E3 things will be cleared up, yadayadayada" because I didn't want to be a negative nancy about everything. How can I not be a negative nancy now? I AM NANCY.

 

[xn0]

Your avatar moved! O_O

It only works through 1 animation play through. It's subtle, and doesn't work on refreshing the page on gaf, it only works if you actually open the page for the first time.

 

[strata8]

I personally hope this doesn't happen and that we still at least get a choice between digital/physical. Games are getting bigger and bigger as time goes by, ugh.

Steam is a good example of what a fully digital platform with discs would look like. The discs can be used to install the game but they can't be resold at all, lent to other people, etc. With consoles it's harder to do that due to the mindset, which is why MS has come up with this weird, complicated system to facilitate used games even though the platform is almost entirely digital.

 

[TAJ]

Nailed it. This is why AOL is still leading, as well. Once you get those subscribers, they're not going anywhere, despite better offerings elsewhere.

Lack of BC removes most of users' vested interest.

 

[ironcreed]

What if, MS had decided not to sell game discs anymore, download digital only?

What makes this entire fiasco so hilarious is that they could have just pushed digital more and made the transition gradually, without screwing the consumer. These things take time and to stronghold so much at once is not just insulting, it's an exercise of hubris that should be offered up as an example of what not to do to the people who pay you. Don't insult our intelligence. It's as simple as that.

 

[MrCunningham]

Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale

Gee, I couldn't possibly imagine which publishers are going to support this from day one?

 

[djtiesto]

Posted the stuff on FB, already a bunch of casual gamers I know who owned Xboxes this gen are jumping the fuck out. This is gonna be a complete disaster...

Spoiler

Now watch MS announce Lost Odyssey 2 and force me to get one

 

[quest]

The LIVE infrastructure is just like making an analogy to the network of Apple, Google, or Facebook. Once you start to build up contacts, titles, memories, etc... on one, you start to get vested as a consumer. PSN is the same now for those vested in it.

Those networks are by design to keep people within that network by playing off consumer psyche. I just used the COD crowd since it is the largest I believe. And the people will transition to new tech easier then you think. Just look how people line up and purchases new tablets, phones, gadgets, etc... that get appropriate marketing. Some may not be "day 1" but the transition to the 360 to X1 and PS3 to PS4 will be quicker then you think, unless the price is WAY outside the market segment.

May not believe me but I'm just stating this as someone who has experience in corporate finance and marketing with consumers (not with games, but it doesn't matter as consumer habits scale across industries).

Well since neither console has BC the incentive to stay is gone. It be like if all your old apps quit working on the new next Iphone the biggest reason to stay investment $ in the eco system is gone. You can give your friends your gamer tag on the other eco system. Not that hard to switch over when you are starting fresh this generation. Not like you are giving up all your games to do so since they don't carry over.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Source?

Hmm... seems that my memory of it was an article from Polygon (I know...MS-funded) and not necessarily an official statement but a report speculating from inside sources.

While an internet connection will be required for the console, the company is also experimenting with special exemption codes that could be given to select people in very particular, internet-free situations, like active-duty soldiers serving in war zones, sources tell Polygon.

 

[Aquamarine]

Media just write it off as "It's Steam" but don't seem to understand that one of the reasons people stick with consoles over PC/Steam is lending/resale/etc. It's easy to not understand this concept when you get press accounts/copies of titles and don't have to pay for a lot of the games you're playing.

It's a sad day when the PRESS--the people who are supposed to be whistleblowers and investigators and detectives--pony up to Microsoft's corporate bullshit and downplay the significance of the XBONE's DRM.