Support NeoGAF

[zlatko]

I think one issue is just how long you're stuck with specific characters. I'm 8 hours in, but only just got my fourth party member and its obvious that I'm still very early in the game (despite the fact I'd probably would have finished most current gen games in this time). I'm just used to Shulk/Reyn/Sharla, and I imagine developing that kind of play style is hard to break as new party members are slowly added to the mix.

That and I still feel like I can't get rid of Shulk, so there are really only two party slots to play with and the physical DPS role ends up being filled by him so if anyone else fills that role (even if they're mechanically different) they're still not as useful as Shulk.

I'm really hoping that at some point in the future I don't have to worry about dealing damage to Mechon.

8 hours in and you just got the 4th? God damn. I'm like 23-24 hours, and just wrapped up the Colony 6 stuff to obtain the 4th.

Shout outs to side quests adding in so many hours.

 

[chaosblade]

I think one issue is just how long you're stuck with specific characters. I'm 8 hours in, but only just got my fourth party member and its obvious that I'm still very early in the game (despite the fact I'd probably would have finished most current gen games in this time). I'm just used to Shulk/Reyn/Sharla, and I imagine developing that kind of play style is hard to break as new party members are slowly added to the mix.

That and I still feel like I can't get rid of Shulk, so there are really only two party slots to play with and the physical DPS role ends up being filled by him so if anyone else fills that role (even if they're mechanically different) they're still not as useful as Shulk.

I'm really hoping that at some point in the future I don't have to worry about dealing damage to Mechon.

At the point in the game you're at, you should be fine switching out Shulk and experimenting. Should be fine for a while. And remember that even if you do need to kill a couple (like revisiting areas where there are some wandering around) you can kill them without Shulk with a quick topple.

 

[MetatronM]

Why are you missing out on a lot of what the game has to offer if you go the DPS/tank/healer setup? You know there are characters who fill different roles who can substitute one another and you can shuffle characters as you go, right? You're implying, at least that's what I get from your tone, that having Sharla in a team is something noobs do. Get off your high horse, mate.

All I'm saying is that there are lots of options and ways to play, and if you just stick to one way of playing then, yes, you are missing out on a lot the game has to offer. That stands to reason, doesn't it? If you play Super Mario Bros. 2 as only Mario and never play as other characters, are you not missing out on lots that the game has to offer? Is that really a controversial statement or something?

Regardless, I know plenty of people who stick with and even main Sharla. Her cool down mechanics make her inherently unique, she plays a range game like nobody else in the party, has up close attacks and the ability to debuff, and is, of course, the game's primary healer. She's certainly an interesting party member to use. But even those things you wouldn't really know very well about Sharla by just sticking with how the game naturally sets things up.

The simple point is: explore. That's all. No need to get so defensive about it.

 

[Lonestar]

I'm like 50 hours in, and just got

Spoiler

into Mechonis' chest, after the battle with Gadoit

Wonder how much further I have :lol

Oh, and randomly unlocked a hidden skill tree branch for a character...didn't even know they existed!

Now I have to find them all....wonderful...

 

[Firemind]

There are other party setups that are just as effective, or even more effective, than the DPS/tank/healer party. And they can definitely be fun to use and can prevent the game from being monotonous. Sometimes, that sort of party is very ineffective, and I don't intend to offend anyone or anything, but a fear or unwillingness to explore different party setups definitely seems like a reason why a lot of people struggle with a particular late-game boss.

It shouldn't matter if they're more effective or not, as long as you don't die and have fun. It's like picking a lower tier character in a fighting game and sticking with it even though people are harassing you to pick a better character. People just like certain characters. Even moreso considering certain character combinations have amusing banter that are unique to them.

Dying to a boss is enough of an incentive to change and experiment your setup. It's not like not having Sharla around is going to get much easier against bosses. And you can easily beat that particular boss with a dps/tank/healer setup. Melia is a dps. Maybe not in the WoW sense, but if you take the term literally, Melia has one of the highest damage per second in the game, if not the highest.

 

[Lonestar]

It shouldn't matter if they're more effective or not, as long as you don't die and have fun. It's like picking a lower tier character in a fighting game and sticking with it even though people are harassing you to pick a better character. People just like certain characters. Even moreso considering certain character combinations have amusing banter that are unique to them.

Dying to a boss is enough of an incentive to change and experiment your setup. It's not like not having Sharla around is going to get much easier against bosses. And you can easily beat that particular boss with a dps/tank/healer setup. Melia is a dps. Maybe not in the WoW sense, but if you take the term literally, Melia has one of the highest damage per second in the game, if not the highest.

I'd say the next closest "healer" after Sharla, is Riki. Melia's healing seems to be at the detriment of her own health. Riki has the "if you aim at the right angle, you can heal your whole team!"

Solid teams I've been going with have been Melia/Shulk/Dunban, Riki/Shulk/Reyn. Really, just Melia or Riki under user control. Though, bosses I tend to want Shulk, to better control the future outcomes, and to mess em up with the Monado Buster.

 

[Zekes!]

I've been using 7th/Riki/Shulk and the only downside to the team so far is the lack of a topple attack, though Riki has Roly Poly which sometimes inflicts topple. But I've been ravaging shit so it's not a deal breaker.

 

[Junie12]

Okay something weird just happened today...

I managed to sneak in some playing time today because I want to beat the boss so badly, but when I was fighting

Spoiler

Disciple Lorithia

my Wii just decided to reset itself. I thought my Wii was about to die but when I turned it on again it seems everything is just fine.

Did the framerate issues in that boss battle cause it to reset or is it something else?

 

[chaosblade]

I've been using 7th/Riki/Shulk and the only downside to the team so far is the lack of a topple attack, though Riki has Roly Poly which sometimes inflicts topple. But I've been ravaging shit so it's not a deal breaker.

Replace Riki with Dunban and that was my post-game party. Last character you get is pretty amazing once you get everything in place. Good tank + probably highest DPS in the game + self-heals without any skills. Can a character get any more broken?

 

[Slair]

I'd say the next closest "healer" after Sharla, is Riki. Melia's healing seems to be at the detriment of her own health. Riki has the "if you aim at the right angle, you can heal your whole team!"

Solid teams I've been going with have been Melia/Shulk/Dunban, Riki/Shulk/Reyn. Really, just Melia or Riki under user control. Though, bosses I tend to want Shulk, to better control the future outcomes, and to mess em up with the Monado Buster.

Once i switched to melia, learned how to actually use her and let the ai control dunban and shulk, i started winning fights i would've normally lost. That team just deals out so much damage.

 

[Firemind]

All I'm saying is that there are lots of options and ways to play, and if you just stick to one way of playing then, yes, you are missing out on a lot the game has to offer. That stands to reason, doesn't it? If you play Super Mario Bros. 2 as only Mario and never play as other characters, are you not missing out on lots that the game has to offer? Is that really a controversial statement or something?

This is a ridiculous thing to say and a terrible analogy, since you can play as any character with a dps/tank/healer setup if you consider Melia a dps. Who's to say you have to keep playing with the same character? You can easily swap Shulk for Melia and Reyn for Dunban if you so please and you can play as any of these characters. You can even use Riki as a faux healer. All you seem to be saying is that you don't need Sharla, so you can go triple dps or whatever which is totes important, because otherwise you'll miss out on the game.

 

[AwShucks]

I've played aboit 30 minutes of it so far and I think it's pretty fun. Finally some innovation in a traditional JRP.

You apparently missed out on Radiant Historia

 

[Alchemy]

8 hours in and you just got the 4th? God damn. I'm like 23-24 hours, and just wrapped up the Colony 6 stuff to obtain the 4th.

Shout outs to side quests adding in so many hours.

Hoooooow? I feel like I've done a good majority of the side content, though definitely not all of it. This is feeling like my Mass Effect 3 play times all over again, I did all the side stuff everyone else did but everyone else seems to have 10+hours on me.

At the point in the game you're at, you should be fine switching out Shulk and experimenting. Should be fine for a while. And remember that even if you do need to kill a couple (like revisiting areas where there are some wandering around) you can kill them without Shulk with a quick topple.

Topple is nice, but annoying when dealing with multiple Mechon at once. I'm just not terribly fond of the damage restrictions for Mechon, and really expect[ed] at some point to not be an issue with gear or skill upgrades. I'm totally cool with having different strategies for killing different creatures, but fighting Mechon doesn't really involve much outside of spamming that enchant and fighting like normal or spamming topple.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Why is anybody getting hung up on who plays as what characters? I'd say like, 95% of JRPGs feature more characters than you can use at any one time, and the vast majority of people will stick to the same roster in their party for various different reasons.
Unless someone is coming in here claiming there isn't enough variety in combat while admitting they've only used the same character through the whole of the game, then there's really nothing to discuss.

 

[cametall]

I just beat the

Spoiler

Telethia boss in Makna forest

and couldn't do it without Sharla. By the time I got it to half HP my team would start falling apart (ie dying).
So maybe Sharla becomes useless but in that instance I could not do it without her.

I love

Spoiler

Riki

though, I may try controlling him instead of Shulk for a while. When I first got him I thought I'd use him a few minutes and shelve him, but I like his suite of Arts quite a bit.

Also I cannot get the hang of

Spoiler

Melia. I can see why she is/becomes so powerful but right now it doesn't feel like the damage gets output enough, maybe I'm playing her wrong.

For reference I'm level 35 and just outside the

Spoiler

Imperial City (I think that's what it is called)

 

[chaosblade]

Hoooooow? I feel like I've done a good majority of the side content, though definitely not all of it. This is feeling like my Mass Effect 3 play times all over again, I did all the side stuff everyone else did but everyone else seems to have 10+hours on me.




Topple is nice, but annoying when dealing with multiple Mechon at once. I'm just not terribly fond of the damage restrictions for Mechon, and really expect[ed] at some point to not be an issue with gear or skill upgrades. I'm totally cool with having different strategies for killing different creatures, but fighting Mechon doesn't really involve much outside of spamming that enchant and fighting like normal or spamming topple.

You should be high enough level that you can avoid them too. You won't be running into Mechon for a while from where you are, unless you go back to areas with them (

Spoiler

Like the mines, or that party of them on Bionis Leg

).

Why is anybody getting hung up on who plays as what characters? I'd say like, 95% of JRPGs feature more characters than you can use at any one time, and the vast majority of people will stick to the same roster in their party for various different reasons.
Unless someone is coming in here claiming there isn't enough variety in combat while admitting they've only used the same character through the whole of the game, then there's really nothing to discuss.

I don't even really know what happened with that discussion. Firemind got hung up on people suggesting that you can play without using a dedicated healer (Sharla) and overreacting as if "we" were trying to tell people to play the game differently.

Also I cannot get the hang of

Spoiler

Melia. I can see why she is/becomes so powerful but right now it doesn't feel like the damage gets output enough, maybe I'm playing her wrong.

For reference I'm level 35 and just outside the

Spoiler

Imperial City (I think that's what it is called)

You should never be auto-attacking. Early on she's not quite as good since her cool-downs are still kind of long and you don't have a lot of elements to summon. Bolt is still great though, especially when you tack on lighting damage+ gems. (Not the ones that add lightning, the ones that increase it by x%). Also, that quick-topple!

 

[Firemind]

Melia doesn't become good until you stuff her with gems and skills that boost her magic and level up her arts to deal more damage with decreased cooldowns. So you still have ways to go before that.

 

[Lonestar]

Riki's got high HP and some good spells/arts, can steal items, and has skill tree items to increase xp and ap.

But that's about all I like him for. I hate "those" characters in RPGs. Just annoying little made-up-things.

I know alot of JRPGS have them, but it seems like a prerequisite - Google Search for any game that comes with the use of "xeno-" in it's title...

On thing about Melia. I've tried this, not even sure it actually works like this, but when you double up with an element, specifically the Fire/Strength one, do the effects stack, for "Strength up x2"?

 

[Firemind]

I don't even really know what happened with that discussion. Firemind got hung up on people suggesting that you can play without using a dedicated healer (Sharla) and overreacting as if "we" were trying to tell people to play the game differently.

It wasn't directed towards you. I was responding to MetatronM who, if you've been keeping up with the thread, tries his/her hardest to take Sharla down a peg at every given opportunity.

 

[chaosblade]

Riki's got high HP and some good spells/arts, can steal items, and has skill tree items to increase xp and ap.

But that's about all I like him for. I hate "those" characters in RPGs. Just annoying little made-up-things.

I know alot of JRPGS have them, but it seems like a prerequisite - Google Search for any game that comes with the use of "xeno-" in it's title...

On thing about Melia. I've tried this, not even sure it actually works like this, but when you double up with an element, specifically the Fire/Strength one, do the effects stack, for "Strength up x2"?

Edit: Doh. I see what you mean, yes, her buffs from the summoned elements stack. This is why it's recommended to summon copy bolt and have two available right from the start, then summon and use something else like fire/wind since it will do even more damage.

 

[Lonestar]

In the "gem stats" section where it shows all your buffs you're getting, as long as the writing isn't in green you can keep stacking gem effects. If it's green you've maxed out whatever the gem bonus is for that stat. So you can put a bunch of Ether Up gems on Melia for a maximum of +200, for example.

I think the Lighting damage up and the like go as high as 100%, so you can double your damage output with gems. I think that's in the Google Docs thing.

Not on the gem side, I mean in battle, using the "summon fire" buff. If you doubled up the buff (which was a Strength up), would you in turn get double the "strength up"

 

[state_vector_collapse]

That faq posted on Melia a couple of pages back - is there one for each character and are they listed together anywhere? I'm searching the old thread, but using the word tutorial doesn't even throw up the Melia one never mind for the rest of the cast? Thanks

 

[ZenaxPure]

Why is anybody getting hung up on who plays as what characters? I'd say like, 95% of JRPGs feature more characters than you can use at any one time, and the vast majority of people will stick to the same roster in their party for various different reasons.

Well to be fair can you name many other single player RPGs in general where there are avoidance tanks who are great? To someone who doesn't play many RPGs or hasn't played ones with weirder combat mechanics Xenoblade may just seem impossible to them if you don't have a dedicated healer. I mean 90% of the generic run of the mill turn based RPGs always have the dedicated healing character. Not using one might be a strange concept for a lot of folks. The game never really does a good job of telling the player other party setups exist, especially since they dish the characters out very slowly.

I don't think I would really call it a problem but I'd bet a large majority of people who play the game spend the entire game using Reyn/Sharla/_____.

 

[chaosblade]

That faq posted on Melia a couple of pages back - is there one for each character and are they listed together anywhere? I'm searching the old thread, but using the word tutorial doesn't even throw up the Melia one never mind for the rest of the cast? Thanks

I think Zornica did write some, but they weren't in English and that was the only one he translated since all the other characters are pretty straightforward by comparison (to an extent, all of them have some cool things they can do). Which characters are you wondering about specifically?

 

[Meier]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960564-xenoblade-chronicles/62466640

Fantastic! Just curious, have any GAFfers successfully done this?

 

[Lonestar]

I've tried to do the whole "naked Dunban" dodge tank strategy. Guess it works, but more often than not, Shulk or Riki would end up getting all the aggro, and Dunban with just 1,2, or 3 Agile Up gems on his sword and nothing else, just feels like a wasted spot.

So give me an armored and gem'd out Dunban with 160-ish Agility, over a 230+ agile Naked Dunban, anyday.

Plus, makes for strange cutscenes.

Nope, sorry Fellow College Footballian.

BTW: Urban SUUUUCKS ;P

 

[chaosblade]

I've tried to do the whole "naked Dunban" dodge tank strategy. Guess it works, but more often than not, Shulk or Riki would end up getting all the aggro, and Dunban with just 1,2, or 3 Agile Up gems on his sword and nothing else, just feels like a wasted spot.

So give me an armored and gem'd out Dunban with 160-ish Agility, over a 230+ agile Naked Dunban, anyday.

Plus, makes for strange cutscenes.

Nope, sorry Fellow College Footballian.

BTW: Urban SUUUUCKS ;P

Hey, I still lurk that thread. Just don't have much to say during the off-season.

And I don't really think the Naked strategy is worth it either. The gem slots are infinitely more useful.

 

[Lonestar]

Hey, I still lurk that thread. Just don't have much to say during the off-season.

And I don't really think the Naked strategy is worth it either. The gem slots are infinitely more useful.

Maybe if I can craft some high level aggro up gems, and use them instead of agility up, Naked Dunban would work better.

 

[ZenaxPure]

I've tried to do the whole "naked Dunban" dodge tank strategy. Guess it works, but more often than not, Shulk or Riki would end up getting all the aggro, and Dunban with just 1,2, or 3 Agile Up gems on his sword and nothing else, just feels like a wasted spot.

I have that problem with every tank to be honest. The AI annoys me to no end when it comes to tanking, my biggest problem being that they never seem to want to use lock on auras. Even if I remove every single other aura they still refuse to use lock ons even if they lose aggro. Problem was solved when I just said screw the AI and played him myself.

On a funnier note when I finally got to the point where I could get more agility from gems than being naked(+other bonuses) I put on my best armor which happened to be some of the oil-type stuff so I ended up with a naked Dunban who had a headband... I got a pretty good laugh out of it.

 

[Firemind]

Use Peerless whenever you can. Have it be the only aura if AI controlled. It really helps to keep aggro.

 

[chaosblade]

Maybe if I can craft some high level aggro up gems, and use them instead of agility up, Naked Dunban would work better.

You'll probably also want stealth gems on your other party members so they don't draw as much aggro. Depends on what agility gems you can craft. I think for Rank V agility shards you need to

Spoiler

have the nature section of Colony 6 completed

so the best you can probably do is Rank IV and megaheat them to V, provided your affinity is high enough to get megaheat.

 

[MetatronM]

This is a ridiculous thing to say and a terrible analogy, since you can play as any character with a dps/tank/healer setup if you consider Melia a dps. Who's to say you have to keep playing with the same character? You can easily swap Shulk for Melia and Reyn for Dunban if you so please and you can play as any of these characters. You can even use Riki as a faux healer. All you seem to be saying is that you don't need Sharla, so you can go triple dps or whatever which is totes important, because otherwise you'll miss out on the game.

I don't know how you got that from what I was saying, but we are clearly having two completely different conversations here.

 

[Firemind]

Everybody else either does damage fast enough or has enough HP that anything beyond Shulk or Riki's healing techniques is overkill.

.

 

[zlatko]

.

Is that true? I was going to just use Shulk, Reyn, and Dunban for now and avoid Sharla, even though I'm just now leaving Colony 6. Is it maybe better to go for Dunban, Shulk, and Sharla?

 

[MetatronM]

.

And? That's true if Sharla is not in the party. If Sharla is in the party, your damage output is inherently lower, and hence she has great healing abilities to make up for it.

Where is the controversy here? And how does this have anything to do with you saying I'm trying to make people use a triple DPS party or whatever nonsense (which I never did, since that would be a party of

Spoiler

Melia-Shulk-7th, which is a lineup I don't think I've ever recommended. Obviously powerful offensively, but it would have a hell of a time managing aggro.

)?

 

[MetatronM]

Is that true? I was going to just use Shulk, Reyn, and Dunban for now and avoid Sharla, even though I'm just now leaving Colony 6. Is it maybe better to go for Dunban, Shulk, and Sharla?

Either group would work. Personally, I used

Spoiler

Shulk-Dunban-Sharla

at that point.

Shulk-Reyn-Dunban might not have great healing, which Reyn normally needs, but Dunban's ability as a tank will take a lot of heat off of him. On the other hand, Dunban dodges so much but would keep so much aggro on himself in that other party that Sharla's presence means it's almost impossible for anything to be much of a threat to you at that stage in the game, unless you're severely underleveled compared to the enemies. You'll do less damage than the other party, but you'll be perfectly safe too.

 

[Firemind]

Is that true? I was going to just use Shulk, Reyn, and Dunban for now and avoid Sharla, even though I'm just now leaving Colony 6. Is it maybe better to go for Dunban, Shulk, and Sharla?

Use whoever you like until you hit a speed bump. Or several.

And? That's true if Sharla is not in the party. If Sharla is in the party, your damage output is inherently lower, and hence she has great healing abilities to make up for it.

Where is the controversy here? And how does this have anything to do with you saying I'm trying to make people use a triple DPS party or whatever nonsense (which I never did, since that would be a party of

Spoiler

Melia-Shulk-7th, which is a lineup I don't think I've ever recommended. Obviously powerful offensively, but it would have a hell of a time managing aggro.

)?

Riki can dps

Spoiler

and 7th can be defensively set up to tank.

Anyhow, that doesn't disprove the theory that you have some sort of resentment towards Sharla. Poor gal.

 

[ag-my001]

I've tried to do the whole "naked Dunban" dodge tank strategy. Guess it works, but more often than not, Shulk or Riki would end up getting all the aggro, and Dunban with just 1,2, or 3 Agile Up gems on his sword and nothing else, just feels like a wasted spot.

So give me an armored and gem'd out Dunban with 160-ish Agility, over a 230+ agile Naked Dunban, anyday.

Plus, makes for strange cutscenes.

Nope, sorry Fellow College Footballian.

BTW: Urban SUUUUCKS ;P

There's your problem. To get the most out of naked-Dunban, you need to link a skill from Melia that gives a huge bonus to all stats when no gems are equipped. More than makes up for whatever you could be slotting into his weapon.

 

[wsippel]

And? That's true if Sharla is not in the party. If Sharla is in the party, your damage output is inherently lower, and hence she has great healing abilities to make up for it.

Where is the controversy here? And how does this have anything to do with you saying I'm trying to make people use a triple DPS party or whatever nonsense (which I never did, since that would be a party of

Spoiler

Melia-Shulk-7th, which is a lineup I don't think I've ever recommended. Obviously powerful offensively, but it would have a hell of a time managing aggro.

)?

You should have recommended it, though - it's probably the most powerful party in the game when it comes to pure DPS. And aggro management isn't really an issue with the right armor/ gems.

Spoiler

Agility, attack speed and double attack for Shulk, Speed V for 7th.

 

[Owzers]

I pretty much rotate party members based on how i feel like playing, and use the medic for bosses. Except Riki....because of his voice.

 

[Lonestar]

There's your problem. To get the most out of naked-Dunban, you need to link a skill from Melia that gives a huge bonus to all stats when no gems are equipped. More than makes up for whatever you could be slotting into his weapon.

Is that on the hidden skill tree, and I need more affinity between the 2.

 

[state_vector_collapse]

I think Zornica did write some, but they weren't in English and that was the only one he translated since all the other characters are pretty straightforward by comparison (to an extent, all of them have some cool things they can do). Which characters are you wondering about specifically?

It was more that I thought it was a nicely detailed faq and was curious if there was other things I was missing with the other characters. It made me realise I had been misusing Melia. I thought it would make a cool read and maybe throw up some tidbits about each of them. Although I suspect I'm probably not getting the best out of Rikku or Dunban (who I have hardly used)

 

[ag-my001]

Is that on the hidden skill tree, and I need more affinity between the 2.

It is on Melia's fourth tree. To open it up,

Spoiler

get a 3-star rating with Alcamoth, then talk to the woman on top of the Lighthouse.

The nice thing about it is that it's the 3rd skill on the list, so it won't take long to unlock. It's also the right shape that you only need the 2nd level of affinity between Melia and Dunban.

 

[Zekes!]

I did not know about these hidden skill trees

How do I get them? Spoiler tags if need be.

 

[Jintor]

quests brah

 

[Zekes!]

quests brah

I feel like I should've known the answer was going to be "more quests!"

 

[ag-my001]

To be more specific, you'll know it's a hidden tree quest if you talk to the person with a ! on their head and they don't give you a quest. You have to talk to them with the specific person as your lead character to receive the quest.

 

[Ultratech]

I did not know about these hidden skill trees

How do I get them? Spoiler tags if need be.

4th Skill Trees are available after doing certain quests and stuff. Differs for each party member. The quests are generally character-specific (i.e. the quest giver won't give you the quest unless you talk to them with said character as the leader).

5th Skill Trees are unlocked from quests as well, but aren't available until about the end of the game.

Something to note is that these quests are generally obtained through quest chains, so you'll likely end up having to do quite a few quests and/or raise affinity for an area before they become available.

 

[BalrogTheMaster]

Hey guys! I know you're all well into your quests, but I have a review up if anyone's curious I finally beat the game 112 hours in, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zdLpif_EXE

 

[ezekial45]

Hey guys! I know you're all well into your quests, but I have a review up if anyone's curious I finally beat the game 112 hours in, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zdLpif_EXE

Nice job!