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Xenogears - How a Remake/Remaster Could Work

Which art style approach would be best?

  • Trails in the sky first chapter Style

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • FF7 Rebirth Style

    Votes: 8 20.0%

  • 2.5D HD Style (Octopath/DQ/StarOceanR)

    Votes: 24 60.0%
  • Total voters
    40
Arsic

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
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Let's face it. Xenogears is in the upper echelon of greatest games ever made. In the best ever for the JRPG genre shoulder to shoulder with beauties like Chrono Trigger, Suikoden 2, FF6, etc.

Yet despite all these years nothing is taking place with the IP likely due to legal reasons with monolithsoft and rights blah blah.

The easiest thing Square can do is at least drum up the dollars to put it on PSN since it technically is on vita and ps3 store but you can't easily access it on a ps4 or 5 to play now. Yeah there's emulation but I want it on my modern hardware.

Past this what would a remake or remaster of this look like? What would be the most ideal?

I'm personally torn between Star Ocean the Second Story Rs very impressive remakester, or the new Trails in the sky first chapter remake. Both are soulful and very well executed to bring the games to modern platforms and new audiences.

Also, as an aside thought, what would make Square ever even pursue this? Do you think if a large investment cost was offloaded they would greenlight it?

For example why don't these idiot millionaire Twitch streamers pool some dollars together and create a "go fund me" event to give square some of those dollars to make it happen? Imagine $500,000 from 10 big creators, and maybe a community run event to see folks donate $5 could pool together a large amount of what's needed for this project to make it happen easily profitable.
 
I think each game requires its own unique approach to a remake. There's no single, general plan, as there are so many nuances and mechanics to consider without compromising the original game.
But if I had to choose between these three options, I think the Trails in the Sky approach would suit Xenogears best. This will require a larger budget, but will allow for better and more beautiful presentation of locations and characters, and this game has a lot of things that would look very beautiful in 3D (If done correctly). But the risks are also higher. 2.5D HD Style is the safest option and significantly cheaper.
 
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It will lose it's charm if it does anything more than 2DHD. Hell, all they should do is uprez the poly textures, and do Pixel Remaster style for the character art, and it would be fantastic.
Besides other QoL things like having a toggle for running, right stick camera controls, etc.
 
A Trails in the Sky level remake would be cool, but I'd worry how they reimagine the art style in modern 3D.

2.5D HD would be more budget wise feasible and likely preserve the original art-style enough. So it's the safe pick.
 
Just re-release it on modern consoles with widexcreen, turbo, cheats and duckstation-ish emulator graphics
 
Yoshichan said:
Just re-release it on modern consoles with widexcreen, turbo, cheats and duckstation-ish emulator graphics
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In my post I did mention a "bare minimum" approach but yours adds what a lot of PS plus titles do now when added to play on ps5 for retro titles.

What about if they had a larger budget? A competent studio like the SO2R guys could do this justice.

I'd love to see this and vagrant story get some love damn it.
 
I wouldn't trust the devs with anything else than the bare minimum: unlocked framerate, arbitrary resolution and a moddable file structure. Keep everything else the same or they are gonna fuck it up for sure. Maybe add some optional QoL here and there.

Basically what I want is something as close as possible to a direct port that doesn't ruin the game. Something similar to the recent Tales of remasters.
 
I'd usually say a remake like the Trails one, but I love the original artstyle so much that I'd be very happy with the same Octopath treatment
 
Honestly, if they kept everything the same except give the developers all the time in the world to put in everything they WANTED to put in but didn't have time to, I'd be content. Basically, flesh out the 2nd disc.
 
ChazAshley said:
Honestly, if they kept everything the same except give the developers all the time in the world to put in everything they WANTED to put in but didn't have time to, I'd be content. Basically, flesh out the 2nd disc.
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I worry without the original folks in place this is a lost cause effort and would sour what was accomplished.

The SO2R devs knocked it out of the park. I find the work there in the best remakes done, and it trounces the octopath devs.

If they went big dick it would need to be monolith spearheading it.
 
Krathoon said:
Essentially, what they need to do is flesh out the story. From what I heard they kind of compressed the story in the original.
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It's not exacly compressed, the problem is that the game was way too ambitious for it's time and they got their fund cut. So in the second disc, a big part of the story is just the characters telling us what happened. It could be an entire sequel even, but they probably guessed (right) that this game would never receive a sequel and decided to just put everything in.
 
Forgive me, but I think the 2.5d pixel stuff is hideous. I know, I know it's blasphemy to say it, but it's how I feel so I don't want that.

It definitely should not go the FFVII Remake route either. I enjoy the combat, but everything else is kind of bland.

Trails Remake style is great so it's the closest to my approval of the 3 options, but I don't know if it would make sense for Xenogears to go that way.

I guess what I'm saying is that I struggle to see a way to faithfully remake the game without ruining it.
 
Arsic said:
I worry without the original folks in place this is a lost cause effort and would sour what was accomplished.

The SO2R devs knocked it out of the park. I find the work there in the best remakes done, and it trounces the octopath devs.

If they went big dick it would need to be monolith spearheading it.
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Yeah that's basically the tragedy of remakes/remasters not happening as time goes on, the original group that has the original intent in mind disappear. This is basically one of the biggest reasons why I'll never see a decent mainline Phantasy Star game ever.
 
BTW: There's a large modding project for the game that features an improved translation, rebalanced gameplay and other additions. It's fully modular too, so you can pick and choose what you want:

github.com

GitHub - NoharOSP/Perfect_Works_Build: Includes an improved translation, rebalanced gameplay, and other quality of life improvements.

Includes an improved translation, rebalanced gameplay, and other quality of life improvements. - NoharOSP/Perfect_Works_Build
github.com github.com

As for the question here: I like the idea if only to flesh out the second disc. The problem is I have 0 faith that the narrative won't get messed with in ways which I'll dislike. So, not that interested.
 
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2DHD is my choice - provided with somewhat better camera control and environmental gfx. I don't like the excessive bokeh though - so have that as an option to turn it on and off - and definitely re-draw the pixel characters at more fluid animation and higher resolution too.
 
Team Skoda said:
It will lose it's charm if it does anything more than 2DHD. Hell, all they should do is uprez the poly textures, and do Pixel Remaster style for the character art, and it would be fantastic.
Besides other QoL things like having a toggle for running, right stick camera controls, etc.
Click to expand...
Most of this stuff already exists. The Perfect Works hack + high res texture pack allows you to play what amounts to a remastered game. With a little bit of work, I think you could clean up the sprites and FMVs as well. I have looked into it and have considered doing something as a side project but just don't have the time.

As a massive Xenogears fan (it's my favorite game of all time), I would no doubt purchase a remastered or HD2D version of the game. However, I think the game deserves a complete version where the second disk is actually finished, where jumping mechanics/physics are updated to be more precise and the text is retranslated from the original Japanese text (not relocalized).

I think a Xenogears Complete could be done. There is enough information in design docs (Perfect Works captures a lot of this) that SE wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel, but I think management is so broken at SE that they wouldn't be able to pull it off without a major investment. SE is in a rough spot right now and even though they have a handful of bright creators, they seem imprisoned by massive productions that gamers have grown tired of. They aren't going to appease the board with a Xenogears remake/remaster.
 
PeteBull said:
We have template already, we know it will look stunning af while still keeping all its atmosphere:

If only square would actually be "stunning and brave" this one time, literally :D
Click to expand...

I think this video shows why a Xenogears remake is so challenging.

I love this as a concept but the more complex the environment, the more complex the physics, the worse the character sprites look.

I think there are only two paths — full 3D and emulate the look of the original sprites, or just re-texture and AI-upscale the original game. Anything other than those options and you are going to create some nasty looking incompatibility in the graphics, ruin the experience, or transform Xenogears into something unrecognizable. The last option would probably be the most likely given the types of games SE is releasing.

Honestly, the reason why the DQ HD2D and Octopath Traveler stuff works is because it's still largely locked to X/Y movement with simplistic Z ramps to change elevation. Jumping and complex environmental geometry in a Xenogears remake would make things tricky.
 
PeteBull said:
We have template already, we know it will look stunning af while still keeping all its atmosphere:

If only square would actually be "stunning and brave" this one time, literally :D
Click to expand...

Holy Sh**, yes!

This is the only style of remake I would condone for Xenogears!

Just do this and whilst your at it, flesh out disc 3 gameplay.
 
TheLikou said:
It's not exacly compressed, the problem is that the game was way too ambitious for it's time and they got their fund cut. So in the second disc, a big part of the story is just the characters telling us what happened. It could be an entire sequel even, but they probably guessed (right) that this game would never receive a sequel and decided to just put everything in.
Click to expand...
Funny thing is, by that point I was so engrossed in the storyline that I actually preferred that, because it was story/dungeon/story/dungeon and didn't waste time with filler or side quests. I was so utterly desperate to see what was going to happen that I was fleeing from random encounters in order to save time, until I reached that Miang boss fight where she totally annihilated my party and couldn't progress. I had to grind and train to make up for lost xp. And I did it again for the final battle (I sucked back then at strategic play, and didn't play the battles 'correctly').
 
Star ocean 2 remake works well imo. High quality 2 d sprites with 3d world and nice lighting/ shadows.
This is by far my favorite game. I would buy into a remake day 1.
 
A game where almost the entirety of Disc 2 is one giant exposition dump cannot be of the greatest JRPGs of all-time.

The OG did not sell well, which means the most it will get is a DQ1/2/3-style remake.
 
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SemiSilentObserver said:
Funny thing is, by that point I was so engrossed in the storyline that I actually preferred that, because it was story/dungeon/story/dungeon and didn't waste time with filler or side quests. I was so utterly desperate to see what was going to happen that I was fleeing from random encounters in order to save time, until I reached that Miang boss fight where she totally annihilated my party and couldn't progress. I had to grind and train to make up for lost xp. And I did it again for the final battle (I sucked back then at strategic play, and didn't play the battles 'correctly').
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I did something similar on my first playthrough but my last save put me too far in the game that I could only fight the last boss and couldn't level up any. I tried many times to beat it but couldn't and eventually just had this realization that I loved what I had played so much that I would actually be ok just restarting the game fresh. It was only on the second play through that I learned how to get new tech combos and even touched some of the mini games.
 
th4tguy said:
I did something similar on my first playthrough but my last save put me too far in the game that I could only fight the last boss and couldn't level up any. I tried many times to beat it but couldn't and eventually just had this realization that I loved what I had played so much that I would actually be ok just restarting the game fresh. It was only on the second play through that I learned how to get new tech combos and even touched some of the mini games.
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Yeah, Deus was slaying me as well. But there was a dungeon where I could farm cash and go to that NPC who had a shop and had some amazing gear for the mechs. I grinded for cash, bought the gear and then destroyed Deus.
 
The style of the game felt all over the place as seperate from its writing and dialogue. Maybe it would be worth a rework from the ground up … rebirth style I can't say. Maybe with a production of SoP.
 
The game compressed 3 CDs into 1. That's why the second disk one feels so all-over the place. The game originally intended to be 4 disks big.

I would say they should follow the original intention, but then those who played the original will feel that it drags more than the FF7 remakes.
 
Artificial Heart said:
Knowing Square, they'd split it into two games.

The one advantage of this is they might actually make the events referred to in the second disc.
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They easily could've made a whole second game out of the original. As it is, it's a ~55 hour game with ZERO filler.

That's why the complaints about disc 2 are kinda bullshit. They had so much story to tell, they did everything they could to cram it all into the game. The alternative would be to just end it on a cliffhanger and save the rest for a sequel that would never get made.
 
xenosys said:
A game where almost the entirety of Disc 2 is one giant exposition dump cannot be of the greatest JRPGs of all-time.
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Bro got filtered.

Not sure how I want them to touch it tbh. Probably the best JRPG of all time though for sure. I haven't finished Blade 2 or played Blade 3 yet but as far as the Xeno series goes its the best one and it's not even close.
 
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I just beat the game for the first time a few weeks ago and loved it for its story and zippy pacing, but the gameplay is definitely lacking. The Kislev sewer was basically the peak of the on-foot combat, and that was in the first third of the game. Gear combat is only gated by money, and a few key accessories can trivialize a lot of it. I didn't really mind it personally since I was captivated by the world, but a remaster/remake could improve that part of the package for sure, and also flesh out the events of the last disc. H2D2 would be the best bet imo. Although there would be a lot of 3d works to be done with the gear animations, unless they convert it to sprites.

But we all know SquareEnix would never invest in a story as thought-provoking as this one without altering it in some way to please the average consumer. I'd rather they not touch it at all. A straight rerelease with Perfect Works as a bonus would be for the best. They released Radical Dreamers, they could do something similar for an english release of Perfect Works.
 
I think 2.5 HD but really just getting a cleaned up port that is playable on modern system (PC preferably so it would get lost to time again) would be enough.
 
2.5D + a proper second cd.

But Square today is so insipid that they don't have the guts to do this kind of game.
 
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