Brigandier
Member
The only things they have in common are Xeno in the title... what a fucking shit post.
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Xenogears - How a Remake/Remaster Could Work
- Thread starter Arsic
- Start date
The only things they have in common are Xeno in the title... what a fucking shit post.
Knight of the Round
Neo Member
I just watched a couple of 'heavy exposition dumps' cutscenes from the game on YouTube and holy crap, there really *is* something to be said about experiencing the right thing at the right time in the right age. Seeing those cutscenes today makes me feel just as cringe as when I watched Xenosaga cutscenes back in the PS2 era. Pretentious over-complicated language to make something sound deeper than it actually is. I was in awe when experiencing that in my late teens, but as I grew up, my mind viewed those tactics as tedious and off-putting. I don't think that I exaggerate when I am saying that if I played this game TODAY, I would have a far, far worse opinion about it - probably wouldn't even bother to finish it.
The story didn't age well at all - for me.
Like, this is actual dialogue from the game, "By utilizing the energy displacements caused by actualizing potential future phenomenon ..." - This is like, someone using tech jargon to make his point sound smarter than it actually is. This is bullshit. And my mind has been trained over time to immediately be cringed whenever I experience descriptions/dialogues like these.
And if people think that Remake/Rebirth of FF7 are overcomplicated, I can't even FATHOM how Square would overcomplicate an already overcomplicated story like that of Xenogears.
The story didn't age well at all - for me.
Like, this is actual dialogue from the game, "By utilizing the energy displacements caused by actualizing potential future phenomenon ..." - This is like, someone using tech jargon to make his point sound smarter than it actually is. This is bullshit. And my mind has been trained over time to immediately be cringed whenever I experience descriptions/dialogues like these.
And if people think that Remake/Rebirth of FF7 are overcomplicated, I can't even FATHOM how Square would overcomplicate an already overcomplicated story like that of Xenogears.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
GAF said halo infinite was GOTY a few years ago, and critics gave games like DA veilguard good scores. Using metacritic doesn't at all disprove that game not withstanding the test of time.
Game may have been good when it came out but with incredible and better titles since its release, and knowing how dog shit so many parts of it are now, it's abysmal. I played through it this year. It was a SLOG. Did the ending pan out? Yes. But the combat was routine root canal chore, terrible quests, a middle act of nothing going on, and just bloated to hell and back.
6/10.
mèx
Member
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
In hindsight, the second disc being rushed was probably a blessing in disguise.
The first disc in Xenogears takes around 40 hours on average to beat. More if you want to max everything in an optimal way so you don't get crushed when the second disc takes away most chances to level up and power up.
The pacing in disc 2 is a mess, with short gaming sequences separated by minutes of purely textual infodump. But it also concentrates so much drama and despair in such a short time, I felt genuinely anxious playing it. Reading "And then this happened" and finding yourself in the next scenario, instead of having to travel between two or three places to get there, actually helps the plot go forward more smoothly at that point. Diluting all of that by offering complete access to the world map and many different locations would have made all of that unnecessarily long. Let's not deny that after that gen, when the budget and deadline issues that plagued Xenogears were mostly a thing of the past, JRPGs as a genre started to get bloated beyond anyone's wishes. The complete Xenogears would have been what many people (including me) have been groaning about for the last 20 years. And let's admit it, the game is legendary also for the reason that the two discs play so differently.
The only thing Xenogears need is a fast text / skip text sequence option for those parts where a hard boss fight is preceded by literal minutes of dialogue. The battle against Ramsus and Myang took me several trials, and every time I retried it I had to sit through a ton of text. At that point in the game there's nothing else you can do but try and try that battle again, since there's nothing else to do: you can't go back to the world map and do shit to improve your chances. Savestates are a good alternative to spare you the pain.
The first disc in Xenogears takes around 40 hours on average to beat. More if you want to max everything in an optimal way so you don't get crushed when the second disc takes away most chances to level up and power up.
The pacing in disc 2 is a mess, with short gaming sequences separated by minutes of purely textual infodump. But it also concentrates so much drama and despair in such a short time, I felt genuinely anxious playing it. Reading "And then this happened" and finding yourself in the next scenario, instead of having to travel between two or three places to get there, actually helps the plot go forward more smoothly at that point. Diluting all of that by offering complete access to the world map and many different locations would have made all of that unnecessarily long. Let's not deny that after that gen, when the budget and deadline issues that plagued Xenogears were mostly a thing of the past, JRPGs as a genre started to get bloated beyond anyone's wishes. The complete Xenogears would have been what many people (including me) have been groaning about for the last 20 years. And let's admit it, the game is legendary also for the reason that the two discs play so differently.
The only thing Xenogears need is a fast text / skip text sequence option for those parts where a hard boss fight is preceded by literal minutes of dialogue. The battle against Ramsus and Myang took me several trials, and every time I retried it I had to sit through a ton of text. At that point in the game there's nothing else you can do but try and try that battle again, since there's nothing else to do: you can't go back to the world map and do shit to improve your chances. Savestates are a good alternative to spare you the pain.
Sorcerer
Member
From what I understand KOS-MOS is in Xenoblade Chronicles X. Would Monolith have had to gotten permission from Bandi to do that?
I also remember seeing Fei somewhere in the Xenosaga series although he was not actually named from what I recall.
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Only way I see it happening is if Nintendo funds it
Icymanipulator
Member
Do a remaster and a remake. Best of both worlds.
I'd love disc 2 to have a full production budget.
I'd love disc 2 to have a full production budget.
Brigandier
Member
Yeah MonolithSoft would have needed permission to use KOS-MOS in XB2 but it was just for fun it wasn't lore she was just an optional blade.
There was multiple Xenogears character likeness used in Xenosaga but they were nothing more than fan service, The only thing that is in all 3 Xeno series is the Zohar Modifier/Conduit that are pretty much the same thing.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I don't see this working unless SE puts some gameplay around Disk 2. That could be in a single long game or split it into two.
Not sure about art style. Something like Trails Remake would be amazing and would probably sell well but that would take a larger budget. DQIII style remake would be fine or even Star Ocean 2 R.
Not sure about art style. Something like Trails Remake would be amazing and would probably sell well but that would take a larger budget. DQIII style remake would be fine or even Star Ocean 2 R.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
if they're not going all out AAA budget, then I think a style like Star Ocean: The Second Story R (which they insist is NOT "HD-2D") would be perfect.
Classic sprites + beautifully detailed backgrounds + restricted camera movement (can only rotate in X direction).
Battle system-wise I'd love to see them go nuts. It has 2 totally different systems and it would be awesome to make them as different and distinct as possible.
On foot, they should make it play like a 2D Tales Of game (similar to Tales of Destiny remake). It seems like they sort of wanted to go that way with the light/medium/heavy/deathblow attacks. The way ToD remake works where you build up CC then spend it to string together combos would be perfect.
Gear combat could be fully turn-based where it's focused on fuel management
Classic sprites + beautifully detailed backgrounds + restricted camera movement (can only rotate in X direction).
Battle system-wise I'd love to see them go nuts. It has 2 totally different systems and it would be awesome to make them as different and distinct as possible.
On foot, they should make it play like a 2D Tales Of game (similar to Tales of Destiny remake). It seems like they sort of wanted to go that way with the light/medium/heavy/deathblow attacks. The way ToD remake works where you build up CC then spend it to string together combos would be perfect.
Gear combat could be fully turn-based where it's focused on fuel management
Also one of the things about Xenogears being incomplete was that it had a lot of soft lock moments. You had to have a secondary save file in an place where you can grind to avoid that. Some bosses were rutheless.
Star Ocean 2R is a little different from HD-2D, it doesn't use the "seal" of being one of them, it's like a different idea. But yeah, Xenogears could totally work on that way. The problem is that Xenogears have an free camera and that means a lot more of work. Also 3D character models for the gears and the restored content. It would be an herculean effort from Square-enix.Xenogears remade in the same vein as Star Ocean the second story R would be awesome. Please Square make it happen
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
However they do it, they need to actually finish Disc 3. Add the content that got cut or neutered down into cutscene segments when they were supposed to be playable. Like actually finish the game this time 
.
But considering current Square-Enix being overtaken by a venture capitalist investment firm, and we know how they operate, I would call a Xenogears remake effectively dead. It's not one of the tentpole IP, it likely wouldn't be a AAA effort on the level of the FF VII remakes (not that it needs it IMHO), and for those two reasons alone would not get the greenlight if certain venture capitalist investors get their say.
.But considering current Square-Enix being overtaken by a venture capitalist investment firm, and we know how they operate, I would call a Xenogears remake effectively dead. It's not one of the tentpole IP, it likely wouldn't be a AAA effort on the level of the FF VII remakes (not that it needs it IMHO), and for those two reasons alone would not get the greenlight if certain venture capitalist investors get their say.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
It doesn't exactly have a free camera. It can be rotated only in the X direction but it has a fixed distance and angle of elevation. And many areas didn't allow full 360 degree rotation either. So it would definitely require more work than SO2R but it's not like Trails remake with full camera control/behind the ass camera perspective.
Sensei
Member
In my opinion, there are only two solutions:
- a simple remaster like Chrono Cross: The Radical Dreamers with an orchestrated OST, minimal upscaling, and a few QoS enhancements
- a full remake like FFVII: Remake, in just two parts (instead of the FFVII:R trilogy), a fully playable second disc, and additions/integrations from Perfect Works
But who am I kidding? I'd probably play any kind of remake or remaster of the game at this point. Still, I'd be disappointed if they choose the 2D-HD route...
- a simple remaster like Chrono Cross: The Radical Dreamers with an orchestrated OST, minimal upscaling, and a few QoS enhancements
- a full remake like FFVII: Remake, in just two parts (instead of the FFVII:R trilogy), a fully playable second disc, and additions/integrations from Perfect Works
But who am I kidding? I'd probably play any kind of remake or remaster of the game at this point. Still, I'd be disappointed if they choose the 2D-HD route...
Mister Wolf
Member
Was never a fan of its combat system though I love the game for its story.