Zenless Zone Zero ༺*|OT|*༻ Gotta Waifu 'Em All ♡(੭´͈ ᐜ `͈)੭♡

Not sure if it's true with the P2W version of her. I have her C3 and W-Engine and she melts everything just fine even half a year later. Also, there's literally nothing challenging (I mean fair and cool challenge like in Sekiro and Ninja Giden) in the game where you really need to think. Like, sure, you need to dodge, quick assist, defence assist and all that but unless you go to BS towers and enable all modifiers in LV and HZ, it's just a walk in the park and LV and HZ is one and done thing, you don't even need to do that again. And you already know what's in there in those towers.

If the game was really all about skill and mechanics, again, a lot of people would've dropped it already. It's not a button masher, but nowhere near a game where skill and mechanics matter like they should and to make them matter, you need to make the game harder and have a fair challenge which they'll never do. Like, if Sekiro and Ninja Gaiden (not Sigma series) was like ZZZ, everyone could finish those games relatively easily and with moderate effort at best.
I only have Miayabis engine. And I can clearly see how she's doing less and less damage. Sure, she's still very strong, but so are the new Da ice's weak bosses.

I only had 16k points on the last one. Of course I could get much better over time and try more than once, but just before that I had almost 30k points. But your Miaybi problem is self-created, that she is so strong with m3. 99% of players don't have such a strong Miayabi.

And Sekiro and Ninja Gaiden are very different games, ZZZ is very much inspired by games like Street Fighter and Tekken. And expecting the same mechanics from a completely different genre here can only go wrong.
 
Don't mention WuWa to me, I think that game is trash.
Well, just because you think it's trash, you can't tell people what they should and should not do

We already have Evelyn and Harumasa those performance and closely linked to mastery of their rotations and YiXuan expected to be even more in this direction. Just because you opt to M3 Miyabi doesn't mean that there are absolutely no complexity in the game.
You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't opt for M3 Miyabi just to replace Ellen, I'm saying that Ellen plays way differently, a lot of people don't like her and opted for Miyabi instead. I like Ellen cuz her combat kit is so different as well as the way you play with her, whereas Miyabi is a much more casual friendly character in terms of her combat kit and how it works. Don't try to put words into my mouth which I didn't say please. I got Miyabi just like everyone else did and a lot of people have her, I'm just got lucky and got 3 of her dupes, what can I say, shit happens.

The problem with linking mechanics to HP, like it was done to HuTao, is that ZZZ does not have proper healers (Astra heals a very small amount once in forever as heal tied to ultimate), so self-harm mechanics are out of question - they can't be put into rotation in any meaningful way. And enmity (more damage at low hp) will be very unbalanced as in ZZZ it's way too often that characters don't receive damage at all. Mihoyo probably explored this and found that hp based mechanics simply do not work well in current ZZZ setup.
Well, it's their problem to figure it out, certainly not ours. I do agree though that there must be more healers in the game and at least one good F2P one to make it work, but I also think we need 4-5 characters instead of 3 to rump up the complexity of rotations and combat overal, the already have all classes for this (DPS, Stunner, Defender (Shield), Anomaly (sub DPS), Healer (Support)), but for this to work there must be they need to fix current rotation system to make it work like you telling it to work and not how it feels like it - this is the problem which was in the game day one and one year later they still haven't fixed it, as well as almost uncontrollable auto lock-on. But if they'll finally fix rotations and auto lock-on, of course they're not going to be doing 4-5 characters teams, cuz brains of casuals can't handle it.

I only have Miayabis engine. And I can clearly see how she's doing less and less damage. Sure, she's still very strong, but so are the new Da ice's weak bosses.
She's not doing less DMG though, it's just that HP inflation is doing it's thing to compensate for new characters. The more dupes you have, the less it's noticable.

I only had 16k points on the last one. Of course I could get much better over time and try more than once, but just before that I had almost 30k points. But your Miaybi problem is self-created, that she is so strong with m3. 99% of players don't have such a strong Miayabi.
Problem? I don't have any problems, it's called future-proofing which is not even complete, so I'll be fixing that when the time comes. And DA is a POS end game mode is one of the worst, needless and pointless in the game I'm only doing it to get polys, don't care about anything else.

And Sekiro and Ninja Gaiden are very different games, ZZZ is very much inspired by games like Street Fighter and Tekken. And expecting the same mechanics from a completely different genre here can only go wrong.
Of course they're different, I'm not saying they're similar, I'm talking about fair challenge and that you need to have skill to complete these games, where as ZZZ is a lot more casual friendly game and will continue to be. Also, WuWa's combat is a lot more technical and challenging and yet people play it, which means that miHoYo can do more for ZZZs combat without turning it into something people can't play.

S11 w engine (Brimstone) doesn't have crit and it's effect tied to attacker role so I am unsure whether it will work for YuXian or not. And your setup would have only 2 hp discs, disc5 should be ether damage as almost always.
Yeah, you're right, it's Steel Cushion instead, Neko's W-Engine. Eh, I was sure S11s had CR cuz she's CR and CD focused character just like any other DPS. Well, anyway, you can get CR W-Engine for her np. As for what will be better, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm sure people will figure it out before 2.0 launch. I think Steel Cushion or any ony other S rank DPS W-Engine (provided you have it) will be the second best option for her or maybe even the best, given that on the table you posted, one A rank W-Engine is already better than her signature, so we'll see.

Hot dayum, now I want an official Mavuika outfit for Burnice.


Now that is immensely better than what she has now. I really don't like her glossy for no reason costume so much and stupid skirt especially. Her hair style can also be a lot better.
 
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Well, just because you think it's trash, you can't tell people what they should and should not do
I can do if it relate to me. It's just pointless to try to argue with WuWa examples with me.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't opt for M3 Miyabi just to replace Ellen, I'm saying that Ellen plays way differently, a lot of people don't like her and opted for Miyabi instead. I like Ellen cuz her combat kit is so different as well as the way you play with her, whereas Miyabi is a much more casual friendly character in terms of her combat kit and how it works. Don't try to put words into my mouth which I didn't say please. I got Miyabi just like everyone else did and a lot of people have her, I'm just got lucky and got 3 of her dupes, what can I say, shit happens.
I haven't wrote anything about Ellen. Just because some characters more casual friendly doesn't mean that all of them are, including current meta characters.
Like if you want fire team, Evelyn is the strongest and she require skill to play efficiently.
It's actually a good approach for online games to have something for both casual and hardcore playstyles. Hardcore only games has miniscule auditory, leading a rather limited production quality that drops player base even more.

Well, it's their problem to figure it out, certainly not ours. I do agree though that there must be more healers in the game and at least one good F2P one to make it work, but I also think we need 4-5 characters instead of 3 to rump up the complexity of rotations and combat overal, the already have all classes for this (DPS, Stunner, Defender (Shield), Anomaly (sub DPS), Healer (Support)), but for this to work there must be they need to fix current rotation system to make it work like you telling it to work and not how it feels like it - this is the problem which was in the game day one and one year later they still haven't fixed it, as well as almost uncontrollable auto lock-on. But if they'll finally fix rotations and auto lock-on, of course they're not going to be doing 4-5 characters teams, cuz brains of casuals can't handle it.
And they did - so we have no such mechanics on YuXian. Wishing for impossible "I would like unicorn in RL, it's your problem how to get it" ain't gonna work, expectations should be realistic or you always will be frustrated coz things never go your way.
This game doesn't need heavy healers, as it'll need to completely overhaul the whole combat that structured around not taking damage at all, unlike Genshin or HSR where you will get damage no matter what.
Taking damage means that you made some mistakes and introducing heavy healers will make game too trivial.

Yeah, you're right, it's Steel Cushion instead, Neko's W-Engine. Eh, I was sure S11s had CR cuz she's CR and CD focused character just like any other DPS. Well, anyway, you can get CR W-Engine for her np. As for what will be better, we'll have to wait and see, but I'm sure people will figure it out before 2.0 launch. I think Steel Cushion or any ony other S rank DPS W-Engine (provided you have it) will be the second best option for her or maybe even the best, given that on the table you posted, one A rank W-Engine is already better than her signature, so we'll see.
No, they will not be even close. I expect damage difference between her signature and other options to be ~30%+ at launch.
Switching to Steel Cushion gives 4% more CR, a very meager upgrade in terms of CR, but you'll lose ~250 sheer and 16%+16% ether damage boost. The latter alone is a huge loss of dps.
And which A engine is better for her?
 
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Of course they're different, I'm not saying they're similar, I'm talking about fair challenge and that you need to have skill to complete these games, where as ZZZ is a lot more casual friendly game and will continue to be. Also, WuWa's combat is a lot more technical and challenging and yet people play it, which means that miHoYo can do more for ZZZs combat without turning it into something people can't play.
It's several times smaller.
The more hardcore and casual unfriendly game is, the less playerbase it has. WuWa went for more hardcore crowd, it's their way to carve niche against Mihoyo, ZZZ tries to strike balance - it's more hardcore that Genshin, but still quite casual friendly.
 
Problem? I don't have any problems
Maybe you lost the thread because you keep replying with these giant walls of text, but he's referring to when he replied to you when you said:
Skill and mechanics? There's no skill and deep mechanics in ZZZ, it doesn't matter in this game, especially when there's characters like Miyabi
Your argument to support this being your C3 miyabi, who's stronger than anyone else even at C6.
This is indeed a problem of your own creation because C3 miyabi very obviously isn't anywhere near close to being the standard the game's mechanics are evaluated against.
 
Btw, you know this exists, I assume?
Of course. I was just half serious with my comment. I'd like more official outfits though, since I play the game a lot on console, so no mods there.
 
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And just like that I finally skipped a character in ZZZ almost one year later, feels fuckin' great and I almost feel like celebrating:messenger_grinning_sweat:


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I could've throwed a few bucks just to get her in a couple dozen pulls, but why should I? No, seriously, why? I've multiple teams already built (some require a bit more tweaking, but it's nothing), why should I want Viv and pull for her? She adds no value to me and to my teams which are doing just fine without her. I do like her, yes, but just cuz of that fact alone I've zero reason to need her and waste money doing that too. So fuck her, fuck FOMO and fuck Hugo for that matter as well, cuz he even more useless and worthless to me in even more ways that Viv and then some.

I really hope it's a trend in ZZZ ma dudes, cuz I'm sick and tired to pull on every fuckin' banner and waste a bit of money I have in case I need to do that. Fuck all this shit 24/7, today marks the day that I won't be doing that anymore and ever again. I say bring even more useless characters my way so that I could save for the ones I really need and which will add real value to what I need and want from the game. Just cuz I'll be skipping the entire 1.7, I'll get Yixuan almost the minute she'll be available with the pulls I'll save in 1.7 and every single pull in 2.0 will be mine to do whatever the fuck I want with them.

For now, I'm questioning whether I should get Ju Fufu or not, I like her, but just like with 1.7... do I really need her just cuz of that alone? In any case, I'll wait until we get 2.1 drips to decide what to do next, cuz 2.X doesn't really have a ton of must pull characters (based on the animated video), so here's hoping that we'll have a lot more opportunity to save for only the best characters and the ones we really need based on the ones we already have.
 
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I hope 2.0 seriously improves the game. I am bored and about to quit. There is no content.
I can only do so much of Shinryu and Lost Void...
 
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I could've throwed a few bucks just to get her in a couple dozen pulls, but why should I? No, seriously, why? I've multiple teams already built (some require a bit more tweaking, but it's nothing), why should I want Viv and pull for her? She adds no value to me and to my teams which are doing just fine without her.
She's cute
Rolling for teams is for the weak :)
 
I personally rarely focus on pulling for meta and/or team comp units in ZZZ, and instead I pull for the characters that I like. If they're also meta then even better (like it was the case with Miyabi), if not then no big loss, I can clear most of the stuff with the current units I have anyways.
 
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I hope 2.0 seriously improves the game. I am bored and about to quit. There is no content.
I can only do so much of Shinryu and Lost Void...
Yes, I feel pretty similar. I'm only still there because I've invested a lot of time and have a relatively large number of pulls. 2.0 has to noticeably upgrade the game.
 
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I can clear most of the stuff with the current units I have anyways.
That is one of the reasons why I'm skipping the whole 1.7. Like, sure, Viv will add one more thing to play around with, but I don't need it and I will have to pay $20 for it cuz I don't have enough pulls right now, where as with Yixuan I don't have to pay for anything and just get her the minute she's available cuz I've 100% + she's Ether too. They literally have to have characters on the banners I don't like and rerun Viv at the same time for me to get her at this point, id, I just can't justify paying for a character I just like if I can avoid it and lose nothing. It's time to change the way I spend and be more responsible, cuz nobody but me can do that.

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As for big changes and expectations from 2.0, I think keeping your expectations in check in regards to 2.0 specifically is the right move instead of expecting too much. The way they talked about 2.2 in the preview is that it's more like a foundation for what's to come. They changed a few things here and there, added bigger map, reworked hollow exploration and stuff, but they'll be improving and adding more things to it in the future. So if you're expecting a shit ton of content 10-15 hrs in length (excluding events), I think you'll be disappointed.
 
I too, hope that 2.0 brings much needed updates. Most notably less lading screens, menus. Some nights I spend more time cycling through menus than anything else.
 
Got hugo in 40 pulls, his W-Engine in a single 10 pull, and Lighter and his W-Engine in 20 pulls each.
Safe to say the game has gotten to me with its gacha mechanic.
 
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