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Zenless Zone Zero ༺*|OT|*༻ Gotta Waifu 'Em All ♡(੭´͈ ᐜ `͈)੭♡

Have seen these Caesar concept images making the rounds on various sites, I actually think the first one with the sword and shield looks
better then what we got, the bikini version with fist weapons is a bit much though.
Would love to get some alternate costumes at some point in this game.

nll0f4s.jpeg


boT0TN9.jpeg


What we got
9saLX12.jpeg


Edit.
She slowly got more and more covered up lol
 
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ap_puff

Member
I think the gold crown was way more badass too, too bad. She’s still cool imo, but man, she could have been so much more.
I bet she was originally supposed to be like Pompey but they opted to make her more dumb, young and naive so she could have a funny relationship with Lucy. The real shame is that Pompey isn't playable, they really need a playable character that's a real badass manly man and not a dudebro or femboy.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
I like this Caesar.
66f63db49d0ed.jpg
The only thing I don't like about her design is stupidass and awful looking breastplates:sick:🤮

Like, who's "brilliant" idea it was that knee covers will look great as breastplates? FFS, miHoYo... for real?!😑

denzel-washington-nah.gif
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
those caesar concepts look like shit, that bikini is completely ridiculous; the wrestler like belt looks dumb as shit too.
she looks way more rowdy/hotheaded as well and not so much as a leader of anything, that's probably why they got rid of her big hair, oversized crown and big cape
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
those caesar concepts look like shit, that bikini is completely ridiculous; the wrestler like belt looks dumb as shit too.
she looks way more rowdy/hotheaded as well and not so much as a leader of anything, that's probably why they got rid of her big hair, oversized crown and big cape
hkBVZYQ.jpeg

Yeah, I don't like the early concepts of her as well, she looks like a character from some sci-fi ecchi mecha universe and doesn't really fit into ZZZ lore and overall visual aesthetic and style. But the breastplates shouldn't even be there in the first place, at least this shitass version of them🤮

I hope that we'll get her Agent story at some point cuz based on her trust quest, I think she's super interesting as a character and they absolutely must flash her out more cuz she has some very cool, warm and cozy soft spot I'd love to see more of and which she hides really well:messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
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those caesar concepts look like shit, that bikini is completely ridiculous; the wrestler like belt looks dumb as shit too.
she looks way more rowdy/hotheaded as well and not so much as a leader of anything, that's probably why they got rid of her big hair, oversized crown and big cape
I think it makes her look like a wild barbarian, the bikini one is too much, but the first one I think is better in every respect form what we got. We went from wild outlander to subdued leader.
Instead of a cape or something we got another character “wearing” a jacket, one sleeve flapping around. And of course the shorts under the skirt. Hard to see how this is any better lol

Edit
Okay, done with installing ZZZ on my PC. Here's my exclusive channel stats.

S luck - Less than 83% of users. BOTTOM 16.99%. Yeah, that tracks and when I say I have shit luck I really mean it. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

2SApqYr.png

I gave up on it, don’t care enough to install the game on my PC
 
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Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
So, since the 1.2 release, I've seen that a lot of people are happy that miHoYo removed the TV sections from the 1.2s story and there's the ones that are unhappy and want it back in. There's also miYoHo that said they're removing TVs from the story and then sort of reluctantly said that they won't. Here's where I think the real issue is with this game's TV mode, MCs overarching story and participation in the story events and "gameplay" if you can call it that.

The biggest issue the game has imho after playing it for 3+ months is not that the TV sections are bad, but rather they are bad (most of the time) is because so much of them are boring, long and tideous af, distract from the flow of the missions and encounters don't gell well at all with the flow of the combat and the story. Now why is that bad if I also don't think that it's not? Well, how about this little guy, huh? Remember him? You do?

bangboo-zenless.gif


Well, what if I told you that we should be playing as him in the Clank-style gameplay sections and that he should have his own gameplay sections with levels based around him, his limits as a bangboo and say... some rally stuff where he can flip some switches here and there and press some buttons, too so that agents can get through some sections after combat and help them that way, while Belle will be providing support via HDD, conversations, maybe some very small TV puzzle and then they all come together in the cut-scene as a team and we can play as agents again, engage with the combat and kill bosses.

Now, you guys, is it a fuckin' rocket science or not to think of something like that to solve this boring ass TV problem they now hove and would't it make the game a lot better than it is now and satisfy both sides, instead of going back to old boring shit as before? I mean, also, why the fuck are bangboos are so undereused in terms of gameplay and they're only thing in the game is that they talk a shit ton, brake occasionally so that you can fix them and that's it? There's also so many fuckin' bangboos in the game with different effects and stuff that you can build levels around all that so that Eos could have a helping hand from his bros and maybe fight some bosses (not hard ones, cuz there's no need for it) as well since all banboos can fight?

It's so fuckin' obvious what they should do and the fact that they just can't think of it even is mind-blowing. I have no fuckin' experience in game development and yet can think of a fix for all this discource around TVs in like 5 min. Like, how effin' fun it'll be to run around from giant brutes as an extremely expressive and animated bangboo, make some bad shit happen to enemies while running away from them and stuff and make you laugh your ass out while doing it? WTF, miHoYo? Do I also need to tell you miHoYo that you can have separate bangboo levels as a permanent thing as well as during events and have more cool and varied events built around various bangboos with puzzles and such in 3D? Well, here you fuckin' go I guess, have all these ideas for free you dum-dums if you can't think of all that yourselves.

zzz-zenless-zone-zero.gif
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
Hard to see how this is any better lol
it's trash 🤷‍♂️
a giant crown that isn't attached to anyting, an unwieldly wrestler belt that would prevent her from leaning forward, tiny straps everywhere that wouldn't hold up to any force, giant hair and hideous split cape that would just muddy her motion silhouette/language; just a complete eyesore, even the bikini one is better in this regard because at least that one is just pure fanservice and thus serves a clear purpose.
 
it's trash 🤷‍♂️
a giant crown that isn't attached to anyting, an unwieldly wrestler belt that would prevent her from leaning forward, tiny straps everywhere that wouldn't hold up to any force, giant hair and hideous split cape that would just muddy her motion silhouette/language; just a complete eyesore, even the bikini one is better in this regard because at least that one is just pure fanservice and thus serves a clear purpose.
Straps that don’t do anything, costumes that are ridiculously designed and completely impractical are par for the course in most anime games lol
This isn’t a real life simulation hahahaha

67OtX2T.jpeg


And they were so close to having a model done too… it hurts.

I guess it’s just different strokes for different folks , I think this would have been way better.
Better hair, cooler crown, more revealing top, no boy shorts, etc.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
Straps that don’t do anything, costumes that are ridiculously designed and completely impractical are par for the course in most anime games lol
sure, doesn't make them any good, I'll call out any design that looks like garbage, like this one.
that alpha model is almost worse because they swapped the stupid wrestler belt for a harakiri belt; those stars would dig into her at the slightest motion, and the crown still looks retarded.
The hair looks better than expected, I don't mind it actually, but that's probably because the dumb cape isn't there to destroy her silhouette completely.
 

Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
his limits as a bangboo and say... some rally stuff where he can flip some switches here and there and press some buttons, too so that agents can get through some sections after combat and help them that way, while Belle will be providing support via HDD, conversations, maybe some very small TV puzzle and then they all come together in the cut-scene as a team and we can play as agents again, engage with the combat and kill bosses.
This would actually be (a lot) more work for them than either options we have now, the exploration and combat segments are all pre-made level chunks that can just be repurposed to construct any kind of level, however eous is not a combat bangboo, he's only a guide, so to make sections for him that are actually engaging and fun to play, they would have to restructure some of their content pipeline to actually support making bespoke level segments and elements that only eous would logically have access to. Otherwise you just wind up lazily blocking off existing levels without any real way to repurpose them into being truly eous only and it would just feel like taking away control from the player for really no reason that couldn't be done with the character that the player is already controlling.
 

ap_puff

Member
This would actually be (a lot) more work for them than either options we have now, the exploration and combat segments are all pre-made level chunks that can just be repurposed to construct any kind of level, however eous is not a combat bangboo, he's only a guide, so to make sections for him that are actually engaging and fun to play, they would have to restructure some of their content pipeline to actually support making bespoke level segments and elements that only eous would logically have access to. Otherwise you just wind up lazily blocking off existing levels without any real way to repurpose them into being truly eous only and it would just feel like taking away control from the player for really no reason that couldn't be done with the character that the player is already controlling.
That''s precisely why the TV mode exists... So they don't have to come up with novel level traversal mechanics and animations for Eous and our agents (think about 3 years down the line where we have 50 agents and they all need climbing, sliding, jumping, etc etc animations for each and every one of hundreds of different gameplay levels) on top of the level design and set construction/modeling required for each unique scenario. TV mode really only (imo) has the problem of taking control away from the player too often and spamming you with unskippable dialogue and animations. One of the criticisms I had in previous CBT when there was a lot more exploration in the combat levels is that they all started to look same-y because obviously each hollow and section of the hollow has similar aesthetics and they had to "use up" the scenery to pad out the length of each gameplay segment. It's cool when you get rally commissions every once in a while, but when you see the same room setups and hallways in the 3-4 different configurations due to how much they're actually able to create and test in a 6 week content cycle, it starts getting old fast.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
This would actually be (a lot) more work for them than either options we have now
They're getting a shit ton of whale money every day and much more than any AAA release. It's a matter of will to make a nessesary changes and right decision more than anything else.

If they'll decide to make a quick fix it's just not going to work cuz a quick fix is going back to the same shit as before and satisfying no one really. They can work on this however long it takes but it must be done to permanently close this issue and make it a thing of the past. Furthermore, Clank-like levels (or something similar) are easy af to make and should not take a lot of time.

Hell, expand the time between huge updates to ~2,5-3 months (instead of 40 days) and let people actually build the characters they unlocked to lvl 60, get their W-Engines and pile up some polys to unlock the new character/s and their stuff. It'll also help to test more things, tweak some things and release better updates cuz 20 days per character is just way too fast and content suffers cuz of it as well.

They need to finally break this BS 20 days per character cycle if they want to change things significantly in key areas cuz this game needs this badly and they're creating even more problems for themselves by trying to quickly fix something which is not that easily fixable and again, it won't satisfy anyone in the end. By fixing TV issues and going away from the 20 days cycle they will also have an opportunity to make more substantial story updates instead of 3 hour ones per month or 2 hour episodes.

eous is not a combat bangboo, he's only a guide, so to make sections for him that are actually engaging and fun to play, they would have to restructure some of their content pipeline to actually support making bespoke level segments and elements that only eous would logically have access to.
Yes, they need to do that and it's not a rocket science cuz the game is super easy in terms of design and how it actually works. There's no super challenging design decisions, sections that can blow your brain and stuff like that, you just have to redesign how levels work, make levels specifically for Eos and other bangboos if it needs to fight some stuff, they can introduce new and small enemies just for bangboo section as well, but make them less dangerous. Again, they need to break 20 days dev cycle cuz it hurts the game and simply won't allow it to eveolve into something more substantial and updates will continue to feel like quick fixes of things they could've avoided entilerly if they had more time. Isn't that obvious? They can hire more people to help them as well, outsource some stuff etc. etc. Will. Will. Will. It's the key word here.

Otherwise you just wind up lazily blocking off existing levels without any real way to repurpose them into being truly eous only and it would just feel like taking away control from the player for really no reason that couldn't be done with the character that the player is already controlling.
They need to work on the flow, lenght and character interaction as well to make it less disjointed. Like, idk, how about while exploring you see agents fighting stuff on the background in areas Eos can't reach which will eliminate the issue that you're in some kind of separate section of the map all alone and not working as a team. Some camera shots after Eos does something to help agents can show that he really did something to contribute to overall mission progress and such. Again, it's not some rocket science only 1000 people on the planet can comprehend and I already mentioned the solution they can use.

One of the criticisms I had in previous CBT when there was a lot more exploration in the combat levels is that they all started to look same-y because obviously each hollow and section of the hollow has similar aesthetics and they had to "use up" the scenery to pad out the length of each gameplay segment. It's cool when you get rally commissions every once in a while, but when you see the same room setups and hallways in the 3-4 different configurations due to how much they're actually able to create and test in a 6 week content cycle, it starts getting old fast.
The problem with the levels is that there's really not much of them in the game and there's not enough variety in what you do in them. We know that they can build beautiful looking levels, they just need to add more to them and make them more rally-like, think of some new stuff for agents to do like they did in 1.2 where you need to avoid lightning while fighting enemies and such. They can think of a lot of stuff to add some variety and challenge to refresh things a bit... or if they can't I can always do that for them goddamnit :messenger_tears_of_joy:

ATLUS fixed things in Persona 5 when it comes to levels and if they did it, then miHoYo sure as fuck can do it too and they have a lot more budget thanks to whales than ATLUS will ever have.

Like, if I had to talk about everything they can do to improve the game to a masterpiece level, it'll take a shit ton of words nobody will be able to read and they can't do all that with their outdated 20-40 days dev cycle - it needs to go away, ZZZ is far better game content and potential-wise that hey ever had and they need to change things significantly to make it truly shine without running away from ghost of past and poor decisions all the time.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
They're getting a shit ton of whale money every day and much more than any AAA release. It's a matter of will to make a nessesary changes and right decision more than anything else.
more money doesn't mean more time which is what this would require, because you can't have unlimited amount of people work on the same project, because open projects get locked to by version control to prevent and merging conflicts.
Hell, expand the time between huge updates to ~2,5-3 months
never happening, that would just lose them money.
Yes, they need to do that and it's not a rocket science cuz the game is super easy in terms of design and how it actually works. There's no super challenging design decisions, sections that can blow your brain and stuff like that, you just have to redesign how levels work
I guess you have access to the source code to say it's all super easy? If there are no mechanics in place, which there currently aren't, they need to be built and they need to be fun and purposeful as well, otherwise they'd be meaningless and just taking away control for the player for no reason, so they'd basically have to design a whole second game just for eous, you can't just "just redesign how levels work" like that, the entire production pipeline would have to change.
Like, idk, how about while exploring you see agents fighting stuff on the background in areas Eos can't reach which will eliminate the issue that you're in some kind of separate section of the map all alone and not working as a team.
That's exactly what I'm describing in the section you quoted, and is just lazy, it doesn't really add anything for the player.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
more money doesn't mean more time which is what this would require, because you can't have unlimited amount of people work on the same project, because open projects get locked to by version control to prevent and merging conflicts.
More time = going away from outdated dev cycle.

never happening, that would just lose them money.
How can releasing new agents will lose them money? They've released plenty of them already without any story content whatsoever so what makes you think they can't do that for 2-3 additional weeks with some events throw in?

I guess you have access to the source code to say it's all super easy? If there are no mechanics in place, which there currently aren't, they need to be built and they need to be fun and purposeful as well, otherwise they'd be meaningless and just taking away control for the player for no reason, so they'd basically have to design a whole second game just for eous, you can't just "just redesign how levels work" like that, the entire production pipeline would have to change.
What's so complicated about ZZZ design or Persona game for that matter? You're just running around in easy to build levels and fighting stuff. I'd say it's more time consuming to ballance things out than to build levels. Again, ZZZ is not even close to a complicated game in terms of design, let alone super complicated one.

You're overthinking things. There's no separate game for Eos, cuz what Eos or banboos can do? Well, running around, looking super cute, press some buttons and such so how complicated could that be? I'd say not complicated at all. They just need to work on levels more to add different sections for Eos to play around in which is like maybe 4-5 different tiles and such. Again, it's not super hard, it's just requires more time they simply can't have with outdated 20 dev cycle per character and 40 per "huge" story update.

That's exactly what I'm describing in the section you quoted, and is just lazy, it doesn't really add anything for the player.
Why is it not adding anything, in what universe? It'll add a lot more to the gameplay as well as not teleport you into completely separate section of the map far away from all the agents and stuff. I'd say it'll add a lot more into immersion as well which TV stuff simple cannot provide and never will in the form it was before. MC's should have their own stuff, agents must fight things and Eos must provide support via gameplay segments, it is the only way to fix the TV stuff and add more variety to what we're doing beyond the hub and locations outside Hollows. If they'll add skip botton it'll be even more terrible than TV sections cuz they need to thinkg of the way to explain what happened (say hello to boring and lazy black screens with text), you'll lose a lot of VA work and character interactions / development and it's just pure shit way of doing it. I mean, add a skip button to pure exploration levels with random NPCs about which literally no one cares and the game will lose nothing of value imho, but it should not be a thing when it comes to everything else and especially story content.

I'm not against the TV stuff, it should be in the game but not in a form it was before and not in nearly the same amount. It needs to be reworked into MCs gameplay somehow, must not be too long and should only consist of simple enough puzzles. A lot of people complained that even during Jane's story, MCs were not involved, character interactions suffered and stuff like that, in 1.2 it was even more obvious and combat sections suffered again and they had to thrown in character interaction during fights where you literally can't hear shit and can't listen to conversations. Well, again, there's only the long and hard way to fix this and it must not be an easy fix of going back to what was before - it will not satisfy anyone as well as the skip button is not a solution.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
outdated dev cycle.
there's nothing outdated about this "cycle", it's how a game like this stay alive.
How can releasing new agents will lose them money?
I didn't say that, I said a 3 month update cycle would, because their income depends on having as many people play for as much time as possible; their concurrent players would drop off a cliff and then spike up again if there was 90 days between updates, the drop of players would equal a loss of income, maybe even a permanent one if those players decide to stop playing all together because of a content draught from slow updates.
What's so complicated about ZZZ design or Persona game for that matter? You're just running around in easy to build levels and fighting stuff. I'd say it's more time consuming to ballance things out that to build levels. Again, ZZZ is not even close to an even complicated game in terms of design, let alone super complicated one.
It's as complicated as any other game, because people actually have to program all of it, you don't just press a button that says "build bayonetta style combat system pretty please", and that goes every single tiny little thing you probably take for granted; the means to do anything needs to be built, and then if the systems intertwine you have to make sure the new thing doesn't break the old thing.
Why is it not adding anything, in what universe? It'll add a lot more to the gameplay as well as not teleport you into completely separate section of the map far away from all the agents and stuff. I'd say it'll add a lot more into immersion as well which TV stuff simple cannot provide and never will in the form it was before.
It's adding nothing, because as I explained, you're just making the bangboo do things that the player could already do, there's absolutely zero point to taking away control from the agent, just to move it to the bangboo, so it can run in the same exact areas, that are just blocked of for some reason, to go and press a button somewhere; it's retarded, you achieve the exact same, and more because it's consistent, just to have the agent run over there to press the button.
If you want to make such a change it has to be meaningful, this is why TV mode exists, because the gameplay is the complete opposite of the combat section, it's literally a different game, and it's modular enough that it fits the production pipeline, so you can create all sorts of interesting scenarios for it, like hollow zero.
If you want to have more focus on bangboo gameplay, then it would need to achieve the same, just running around with the exact same controls to press a button somewhere ain't it, it would need to have a distinct feel like TV mode currently has.

Honkai often changes things up with new gameplay things, like this boss fight suddenly turning into a 2d platformer before the actual 3d boss fight


Or this surfer game before the boss fight


These things actually add something for the player, and can be done because they are essentially one-offs, but bangboo are a constant, so whatever they'd come up with that actually would be a meaningful and fun bangboo game to replace the TV mode, would also need to be constant and it would have to be just as modular, thus changing their production pipeline.
 

ap_puff

Member
Yeah the 6 week cycle exists because there's plenty of data now that beyond that is when the playerbase starts to drop off. These live service games depend on keeping players on a treadmill, once you get off the treadmill it's much harder to get you back on and even if they get you back on it's less likely to keep you attached. It's very predatory in a way, you notice the little things they do in the way they design the game to keep you coming back for more. I agree that less frequent and higher quality content would be better - hell, it's almost laughable at how basic the minigames in e.g. genshin are, basically pale shadows of the better games they're imitating. but it's just part of what keep people engaged, and that's how they built their gacha empire to be chart toppers every single time. And to be fair ZZZ is much better in terms of quality, I'm consistently impressed with what they're able to do in their 6 week cycles. The current vampire survivors knockoff arcade minigame is really quite good for something made in 6 weeks. I just hope that eventually they'll decide that they've made enough billions of dollars and reinvest that in a proper single player AAA title because they have such talented artists, and their game/combat design chops are pretty solid as well.
 
After playing through the new story and event I have to say, beyond Caesar, who I like of course, the character that most improved in my eyes was Piper, she’s hilarious and I love her “Im an old soul” MO
She was already an amazing character gameplay wise, and now I like her personality too.

Edit.
Also R Reizo Ryuu
What would a crown be attached to besides a head LMFAO. Also how is her final design with 2 belts any worse than the belt in the aloha version? Finally, why so angry? Lololololol
You probably shouldnt see the concept art for the idol girls, you might have an aneurism.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

Gold Member
Also R Reizo Ryuu
What would a crown be attached to besides a head LMFAO. Also how is her final design with 2 belts any worse than the belt in the aloha version? Finally, why so angry? Lololololol
The crown is just floating on her head and would fly off from a slight breeze, in the concept art it even looks like the spikes are just digging into her head somehow.
With the giant hair, if the crown was actually secured on her head so it doesn't fly off, the hair would be deforming from having a depressed area where the crown is; now it's just sitting on her hair not actually attached to her head.
If you can't see how two giant super sharp stars going straight in her belly button and stomach is terrible design I dunno what to tell you. The final design isn't super great either, but at least the star is small, hanging low and the belt is loose.

And I'm not angry at all, dunno why you would think that, the designs are just trash and I'm not mincing words.
 
The crown is just floating on her head and would fly off from a slight breeze, in the concept art it even looks like the spikes are just digging into her head somehow.
With the giant hair, if the crown was actually secured on her head so it doesn't fly off, the hair would be deforming from having a depressed area where the crown is; now it's just sitting on her hair not actually attached to her head.
If you can't see how two giant super sharp stars going straight in her belly button and stomach is terrible design I dunno what to tell you. The final design isn't super great either, but at least the star is small, hanging low and the belt is loose.

And I'm not angry at all, dunno why you would think that, the designs are just trash and I'm not mincing words.

Ok, no hard feelings, just read like you were coming in hot
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
I didn't say that, I said a 3 month update cycle would, because their income depends on having as many people play for as much time as possible; their concurrent players would drop off a cliff and then spike up again if there was 90 days between updates, the drop of players would equal a loss of income, maybe even a permanent one if those players decide to stop playing all together because of a content draught from slow updates.
I think they could've easily go for 3 months cycle (or more) if it wasn't for Genshin and HSR they also need to support (not ZZZ team specifically, but rather miHoYo as a whole), but it'll never happen.

It's as complicated as any other game, because people actually have to program all of it, you don't just press a button that says "build bayonetta style combat system pretty please", and that goes every single tiny little thing you probably take for granted; the means to do anything needs to be built, and then if the systems intertwine you have to make sure the new thing doesn't break the old thing.
He-he, I mean I get that it's not just a press of a button, but compared to more complex AAA games in terms of gameplay, systems etc. it's not as even close to being hard. It's all comes down to time which they simply don't have with 20-40 dev cycle, so there's no good way to fix the TV problem they have now which will satisfy everyone, it's simply imposible and will hurt the game.

It's adding nothing, because as I explained, you're just making the bangboo do things that the player could already do, there's absolutely zero point to taking away control from the agent, just to move it to the bangboo, so it can run in the same exact areas, that are just blocked of for some reason, to go and press a button somewhere; it's retarded, you achieve the exact same, and more because it's consistent, just to have the agent run over there to press the button.
I think having more developed bangboo gameplay will add more to the game in terms of gameplay variety and will make these little things matter more in our eyes as well. And pressing buttons is just an example, there's many other ways they could help the team of agents. They way I see it, it's not some separate thing, it's part of the whole mission with simless transitions between agents and bangboo via in-engine cutscene etc. The only way I can see it's not happening at all is because of the fact that goddamn smartphones should also support it, not tank performance etc. cuz they can't make completely different games for obvious reasons.

If you want to have more focus on bangboo gameplay, then it would need to achieve the same, just running around with the exact same controls to press a button somewhere ain't it, it would need to have a distinct feel like TV mode currently has.
Again, it doesn't have to be like that, they could think of other ways for these little guys to contribute to the gameplay variety in a more meaningful and unique ways.

Honkai often changes things up with new gameplay things, like this boss fight suddenly turning into a 2d platformer before the actual 3d boss fight
Well that's just very specific and situational changes, you can't fix the TV mode problem with this. But since you've mentioned combat, I think they should add all-out attacks for all factions in the game which you can activate when all agents have their energy bars at max levels and if all agents are from the same faction. Why factions only? Well, cuz it'll make them more unique, there's not that many factions in the game and that way they don't need to think of various combinations of all-out attacks with members of different factions. I mean, HSR has simply amazing character ultimates in some cases and I think ZZZs combat can do something like this too to make the combat more satisfying and for us to have more options and play as faction teams as well instead of mixing agents.

These things actually add something for the player, and can be done because they are essentially one-offs, but bangboo are a constant, so whatever they'd come up with that actually would be a meaningful and fun bangboo game to replace the TV mode, would also need to be constant and it would have to be just as modular, thus changing their production pipeline.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. They can't fix the TV mode with something like this, it needs to be a constant change to satisfy everyone. And I don't mean that they should work on it for 20-40 days and then release it. Make it a thing in 2.0 or something, it'll give them enough time to overhaul some systems, how they work, add more QOL improvements etc. etc. I just think that they lack the communication skills to tell their player base that these things take time, they're working on it and it'll be done when it's done.

But in the meantime they should fix 1.2 problem with frankly mediocre combat segments (in terms of what you did during them), add more out of combat conversations with agents and MCs like they did before without making TV sections again. That's the bigest problem 1.2 had, many people noticed it (incl. me) and I explained why it just doesn't work. Frankly, I was surprised that they've made so many cool boss fights in 1.2 an the last one especially, if only the actual combat segments were just as good and more creative.

Yeah the 6 week cycle exists because there's plenty of data now that beyond that is when the playerbase starts to drop off. These live service games depend on keeping players on a treadmill, once you get off the treadmill it's much harder to get you back on and even if they get you back on it's less likely to keep you attached. It's very predatory in a way, you notice the little things they do in the way they design the game to keep you coming back for more. I agree that less frequent and higher quality content would be better - hell, it's almost laughable at how basic the minigames in e.g. genshin are, basically pale shadows of the better games they're imitating. but it's just part of what keep people engaged, and that's how they built their gacha empire to be chart toppers every single time. And to be fair ZZZ is much better in terms of quality, I'm consistently impressed with what they're able to do in their 6 week cycles. The current vampire survivors knockoff arcade minigame is really quite good for something made in 6 weeks. I just hope that eventually they'll decide that they've made enough billions of dollars and reinvest that in a proper single player AAA title because they have such talented artists, and their game/combat design chops are pretty solid as well.
Man, I so wish for ZZZ to be a SP only 100-150 hour game like Persona. it could've fixed so many things before the game was even released. I hope they make a SP only game at some point cuz they sure have plenty of talented people to make it happen.
 

cripterion

Member
Well, gave it all in this patch and pulled S ranked character on limited banner... just to lose my 50/50 to fucking Koleda :/ (I have Wolfie, Xinyi, and C6 Anby)

On the permanent banner I pulled Nekomata, I have her weapon fully leveled but gave it to Jane and made just one wish right after and saw the S rank animation, I got excited and... Soldier 11's weapon (which I already have). Will to play this game : GONE. Well there's pretty much nothing left to do anymore anyways, and I'm pretty sure won't have enough ressources to get Burnice either.

By the way, Burnice / Piper / Ceasar combo is the most insane shit I've ever seen. Everything melts in 2 seconds.
 
Well, gave it all in this patch and pulled S ranked character on limited banner... just to lose my 50/50 to fucking Koleda :/ (I have Wolfie, Xinyi, and C6 Anby)

On the permanent banner I pulled Nekomata, I have her weapon fully leveled but gave it to Jane and made just one wish right after and saw the S rank animation, I got excited and... Soldier 11's weapon (which I already have). Will to play this game : GONE. Well there's pretty much nothing left to do anymore anyways, and I'm pretty sure won't have enough ressources to get Burnice either.

By the way, Burnice / Piper / Ceasar combo is the most insane shit I've ever seen. Everything melts in 2 seconds.

I get it man, and I don’t blame you. Losing pulls in gacha games sucks balls. I’ve definitely dropped games in the past when I’ve had sustained bad luck. Hopefully you didn’t put in too much real money into the game.
 

ap_puff

Member
Well, gave it all in this patch and pulled S ranked character on limited banner... just to lose my 50/50 to fucking Koleda :/ (I have Wolfie, Xinyi, and C6 Anby)

On the permanent banner I pulled Nekomata, I have her weapon fully leveled but gave it to Jane and made just one wish right after and saw the S rank animation, I got excited and... Soldier 11's weapon (which I already have). Will to play this game : GONE. Well there's pretty much nothing left to do anymore anyways, and I'm pretty sure won't have enough ressources to get Burnice either.

By the way, Burnice / Piper / Ceasar combo is the most insane shit I've ever seen. Everything melts in 2 seconds.
oof, yeah that's rough
 

SSfox

Member
I couldn't upload those here so I'm just posting a tweet. I think I'm liking Yanagi, if she'll work well with Miyabi that will be just another big W bonus

 

cripterion

Member
I get it man, and I don’t blame you. Losing pulls in gacha games sucks balls. I’ve definitely dropped games in the past when I’ve had sustained bad luck. Hopefully you didn’t put in too much real money into the game.

Only bought the battle pass when the game came out that's it. Overall my account is ok, I got Jane & F2P anomaly weapon to 60. Soldier 11 and her weapon x2 to 60. Zhu Yuan and Xinyi are also 60, almost all the A rank cast besides Seth to C6.
I guess I really thought I could score Ceasar and was looking forward to switch it up a little. Right now, Xinyi / Seth / Jane obliterates pretty much everything, I even do better with them on some missions which recommend fire characters, honestly Soldier 11 sucks real bad. She's fully built and she does nowhere near the dmg that Jane or Zhu Yuan do. I'd say Piper & Lucy are way better characters than Soldier 11.
 
Only bought the battle pass when the game came out that's it. Overall my account is ok, I got Jane & F2P anomaly weapon to 60. Soldier 11 and her weapon x2 to 60. Zhu Yuan and Xinyi are also 60, almost all the A rank cast besides Seth to C6.
I guess I really thought I could score Ceasar and was looking forward to switch it up a little. Right now, Xinyi / Seth / Jane obliterates pretty much everything, I even do better with them on some missions which recommend fire characters, honestly Soldier 11 sucks real bad. She's fully built and she does nowhere near the dmg that Jane or Zhu Yuan do. I'd say Piper & Lucy are way better characters than Soldier 11.

OK so your account isn’t doing terrible by any means then. But yea it still does feel like a punch to the gut when you don’t get a character you really want and are only left with spending to get them. I’ve also spent some money the first month, battle pass + the Welkin Moon (Genshin term because I don’t remember the ZZZ name for it) I’m not opposed to spending more but I always impose a hard limit on gacha games for myself and make sure that it’s something I’m likely to play for a while.

And yes, Piper is ridiculously strong for a standard character, she’s insanely good. Sucks to hear about Soldier 11 tho, I got her a few weeks back off a regular tape, and you’re not the first to say that she isn’t very good.
 

ap_puff

Member
Only bought the battle pass when the game came out that's it. Overall my account is ok, I got Jane & F2P anomaly weapon to 60. Soldier 11 and her weapon x2 to 60. Zhu Yuan and Xinyi are also 60, almost all the A rank cast besides Seth to C6.
I guess I really thought I could score Ceasar and was looking forward to switch it up a little. Right now, Xinyi / Seth / Jane obliterates pretty much everything, I even do better with them on some missions which recommend fire characters, honestly Soldier 11 sucks real bad. She's fully built and she does nowhere near the dmg that Jane or Zhu Yuan do. I'd say Piper & Lucy are way better characters than Soldier 11.
you have good characters.. you just have to adopt a different pulling strategy when you aren't a whale. they give you about 100 pulls of resources per patch so you can guarantee a limited character once every two patches. if you try to get lucky without having the necessary resources, that's when you get hurt feelings lol.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
honestly Soldier 11 sucks real bad. She's fully built and she does nowhere near the dmg that Jane or Zhu Yuan do. I'd say Piper & Lucy are way better characters than Soldier 11.
This sound more like you're using S11 against enemies not weak to fire or you built her the wrong way. Cuz I don't have her yet, but after using her via Trial I can say that her damage against enemies and bosses weak to fire is really good and I'm not even talking about her Ultimate.

If I won't get Burnice, S11 is my only option to build a decent fire team and I've no issue with that tbh.
 

Pejo

Member
S11 is pretty great in my account. At least the way I player her, I don't want to use her at all until you get an enemy into daze mode, but when you swap to her last, it gives her fire imbue for like 15 seconds or so, and she can unload. Helps if she has Lucy's buffs, and Caesar would probably make a good 3rd (for the attack buff shield - mine's not built yet). Her Burn anomaly and damage is fantastic but she's not a hypercarry damage unit like Ellen/Jane. Needs proper setup and is only viable for short windows.
 
I got the achievement for doing 25,000,000 damage to Nineveh in a single inferno reap, I’m guessing it helps that my resonium loadout is like 57 cards lolol 😅

Edit.
Just saw my achievement for deal more then 1,000,000 in a single attack… it’s highest record is listed over 10 million… wtf 10,602,103 that’s 10 times the amount for the achievement lmfao
 
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cripterion

Member
This sound more like you're using S11 against enemies not weak to fire or you built her the wrong way. Cuz I don't have her yet, but after using her via Trial I can say that her damage against enemies and bosses weak to fire is really good and I'm not even talking about her Ultimate.

If I won't get Burnice, S11 is my only option to build a decent fire team and I've no issue with that tbh.
She's no where near as good as S ranked limited characters. I have no use for her cause I can clear faster weak fire monsters with Zhu Yuan or Jane. Yes they're a tad more invested, but Soldier 11 should be beasting with a signature weapon and instead she feels weak.
I'm sure she'll get better once they drop characters from her squad but as it stands she's benched. People looking for fire characters will get a lot more out of Burnice in a couple days.
 

ap_puff

Member
She's no where near as good as S ranked limited characters. I have no use for her cause I can clear faster weak fire monsters with Zhu Yuan or Jane. Yes they're a tad more invested, but Soldier 11 should be beasting with a signature weapon and instead she feels weak.
I'm sure she'll get better once they drop characters from her squad but as it stands she's benched. People looking for fire characters will get a lot more out of Burnice in a couple days.
yeah i warned people. also her mindscapes are also very bad so she has pretty limited future potential, it won't even be a diluc situation. Standard characters are really weak in this game and probably the two with any longevity in them are gonna be Lycaon and Rina.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
yeah i warned people. also her mindscapes are also very bad so she has pretty limited future potential, it won't even be a diluc situation. Standard characters are really weak in this game and probably the two with any longevity in them are gonna be Lycaon and Rina.
My Rina has insane Pen Ratio + decent Anomaly Proficency and Energy Regen, but that's without dupes of her and her signature W-Engine.

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SSfox

Member
So I haven't following leaks, what good teams with Yanagi? Can she work with Jane Doe in a team?
 
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ap_puff

Member
So I haven't following leaks, what good teams with Yanagi? Can she work with Jane Doe in a team?
Her best team will be with burnice, but jane doe or any anomaly unit will work. Regardless it's too early to say as her kit is still getting changed, they just did some major changes to it in the beta server
 
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