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[Spyxos]

 

[ap_puff]

No it's more a lot of small different things that seems to not work or get reset in certain situations, maybe it's by design, or it could just be the result of how they coding interacts with itself; either way it gets in the way of full player agency.
An example would be if you switch out the character, the enemy, in this case jane's stagger gets reset, so if I were to switch out during a series of attacks that might seem to have jane on lock, it just stops and transfers this property to the new active character instead, but because it stops briefly, the enemy can immediately retaliate.
This had gotten me killed a couple of times because I thought my attacks were meaty, in this case meaning hitting her with the switch character while the other character is still attacking, but it's not because her state just gets reset.
This also kind of happens with seth's charge attack and ex attack, both of them will put jane in stagger, however you cannot link them into staggers together, that brief moment where seth isn't hitting her resets her state into non-stagger and she immediately retaliates, this is why in order to land the charge attack, you can see me doing a dodge attack first, this was the only way to consistently land both attacks on her while staggering.
But then I couldn't switch out jane with seth's perfect block quick assist too quickly either, you kinda have to wait till seth's nearly done attacking, otherwise jane will recover quicker and she can interrupt your attack.
The other thing is how her line dash attacks operate, they seem to hit you not via movement, but almost in a hit scan fashion, so there's no reacting to the actual movement, you have to be dodging while the hitbox becomes active, it feels like this hitbox is either a giant straight line, or 3/4 separate hitboxes that update in steps while jane moves across the line, because I've been hit by it even when she was already past me, so her hitbox was active behind her.
There's a few more little things but I don't feel like writing that much.

I did notice however that the goat amillion was able to restagger jane with her gattling gun attack, which is why you see me switching to seth every time she blasts jane, since it's a free full charge.

So I really just think Jane has super fast poise recovery. You can see several times that she nopes out of qingyi's attacks even though she's getting combo'd - for example at 1:02

*edit* holy shit Harumasa's unfinished ult animation is fucking hilarious

 

[Spyxos]

So Ellen is already useless? Or could Ellen and Miyabi be used together somehow?

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I really wish ZZZ had at least one more combat button. I feel like this game would have benefitted so much from light attack/heavy attack/special/super and hold/tap variations of those. I know that's asking for a lot considering it's a gacha content treadmill game where they ideally want a character to be fun for exactly 1 patch, but it really sucks that the designs, animations, bosses are so good but you're limited to mostly just mashing 1 button the whole time. I'd love it if there was a jump button and custom combos and stuff too, but that's taking in a lot of extra work. I feel like just having light/heavy attacks that you can mix and match would add so much variety and style to combat.

It sucks that gacha gameplay modes are constantly at odds with player freedom. Stage timers and dps checks are the antithesis of fun, at least for me. I'd rather the enemies were aggressive and hit hard and encouraged mastery of the mechanics instead of stat grinding and spending more money to get stronger. Or even if they adopted a DMC system of style points and you were judged based on those, that'd even be way better than timers.

Well, it's not just one button though, but as I also said above and I do agree with you - combat and just overall combat experience could be so much more fun if it wasn't limited to the stuff we can do now and even with the second wave of characters with expanded combat kits, which starting roster simply don't have. If we're talking about combat basics, the game is missing air combat BIG time and some of the characters even have moves and stuff which could be considered as air combat starters, but you can only follow them up with the ground combos. Just look at what Capcom did in the last 2 DMC games and you can literally see what's missing in ZZZ when it comes to basic combat fundamentals. Same goes for combos counter and focus on different combos to activate special attacks as rewards for how good you're playing etc. I really, REALLY hope that one day they'll get there and the game will get to 5.0 and far beyond. They have such an opportunity and potential for ZZZ to be an incredible game, but for now it's unfortunately being wasted. They need to go full-on DMC as well as add various and unique all-out attacks for factions and mixed agents, the way combat works now simply can't hold on forever, but before all that even, they need to fix what's broken / not working add more control to us and start from there.

So Ellen is already useless? Or could Ellen and Miyabi be used together somehow?

No, she's not useless, she'll be even more useful when Miyabi will be released cuz she can trigger Crit DMG buffs and Ellen (as well as Zhu, S11, Neko and Harumasa) has focus on Crit Rate / DMG.

 

[Aenima]

Yeah, Miyabi gonna be OP for sure. Those AOE effects are crazy, i can see her melting groups of enemies pretty quick.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

So I really just think Jane has super fast poise recovery. You can see several times that she nopes out of qingyi's attacks even though she's getting combo'd - for example at 1:02

*edit* holy shit Harumasa's unfinished ult animation is fucking hilarious

The reason she got out there is because it's not a real combo string, she stays staggered while in the string, but when qingyi prepares the final hit, the string is broken and jane can retaliate immediately.
The other times she breaks free is because qingyi is hitting jane with her infinite combo, she seems to have infinite combo protection so the stagger resets while she still gets hit and can retaliate immediately, compare this to Jane's charge attack spin kick, if you manage to hit her with this, the whole thing is guaranteed to hit even though it does far more hits than qingyi's infinite, because it's a true combo string and not an infinite; same with seth's charges, she will never break out of them as long as the first hit staggers.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Have you guys using the draw thing for checking things out on the strategy station via link in in-game mail? I got 60 polys and 12K dennies out of it, but since then... literally nothing for two days.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I've mostly tuned out of ZZZ for the time being since I'm playing other stuff (still doing the dailies and a few weeklies though), but god dayum someone already cleared floor 200!

 

[Icymanipulator]

I've mostly tuned out of ZZZ for the time being since I'm playing other stuff (still doing the dailies and a few weeklies though), but god dayum someone already cleared floor 200!

The fact that he has Ellen’s “revealing art” for his background means he has all her Ms. So ya he’s a whale. Still, kind of interesting that it goes up so high.

 

[Spyxos]

I've mostly tuned out of ZZZ for the time being since I'm playing other stuff (still doing the dailies and a few weeklies though), but god dayum someone already cleared floor 200!

Ha looking at my floor 10 badge.

 

[Pejo]

I've mostly tuned out of ZZZ for the time being since I'm playing other stuff (still doing the dailies and a few weeklies though), but god dayum someone already cleared floor 200!

There was a Korean guy up to 1000 I saw earlier.

 

[ap_puff]

Wait, the tower is actually endless? I thought it stopped at 100

 

[Spyxos]

There was a Korean guy up to 1000 I saw earlier.

 

[Icymanipulator]

I just hit master rank.
Man I may have to give some of my characters a refresh on their discs. It’s 1 hit kill basically after floor 20. Great. My favorite “difficulty” mechanic.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

There was a Korean guy up to 1000 I saw earlier.

*this is your captain speaking, we are making our final approach to whale city, please unbuckle your credit cards and prepare for smooth landing*

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Look at this dramatic little action hero

 

[Pejo]

Look at this dramatic little action hero

As much as I hate cutsie mascot things like Bangboo in general, the love that the devs put into their animations is apparent.

The PubSec Bangboo does a whole little door breach animation when he attacks which made me laugh the first time I saw it.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Look at this dramatic little action hero

Bangboos are one of the best things this game has. ZZZ team did what Ubisoft simply could't do with their braindead Rabbids. I mean, I'm not a fan of them talking too much in some cases, but it doesn't change the fact that I love these little guys

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Finished Section 6s SE.

It's nothing special in terms of the main story (Jane's episode is much better at this), but it looks like the main focus was on the cast and here I think they did a great job at telling us more about each Section 6's member. It was amusing to find out that Nagi is actually in charge of most of the work as a deputy chief cuz Miyabi doesn't like briefings and always thinks of something just so she can't go and waste her time on them. As for others, Soukaku is the cutest (hopefully she'll get her Agent story at some point), and... Harumasa... he's terrible and has absolutely nothing interesting as a person, he even looks boring and more like a random NPC so no wonder they're going to be givin' him away for free - I won't be wasting any of my resources on him.

What I also liked about this episode though, is that they showed 3 new, one of the cutest and coolest Bangboos ever and I can't wait to get them all in the game:

Spoiler

 

[Spyxos]

I've read a bit about Miyabi on reddit now, and I don't like it at all. Not only will she most likely need her engine, but Yanagi is also a must-have. It's a bit too much. And don't even get me started on the stupid mindscapes.

 

[ap_puff]

I've read a bit about Miyabi on reddit now, and I don't like it at all. Not only will she most likely need her engine, but Yanagi is also a must-have. It's a bit too much. And don't even get me started on the stupid mindscapes.

What gives you that impression?

 

[Spyxos]

What gives you that impression?

Reddit comments on the latest leaks.

 

[ap_puff]

Reddit comments on the latest leaks.

They don't even know what her w-engine does yet lol. Also, she has several ways of building stacks of her special sauce so even if yanagi is her best team she's nowhere close to requiring her to be good. Miyabi will be busted by herself or with any of the other anomaly units in the game except maybe grace, who just sucks (takes way too much field time to proc anomaly)

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I've read a bit about Miyabi on reddit now, and I don't like it at all. Not only will she most likely need her engine, but Yanagi is also a must-have. It's a bit too much.

Well, Nagi sort of needs her own engine too (cuz it has better buffs and stuff, there's no better engine for her in game and they're not adding more A rank ones), but she plays just fine with the one I gave her and she melts everything with disorder and electric DMG.

Weeping Gemini

Weeping Gemini is an -Rank W-Engine for Anomaly Agents. Toggle Modification MaterialsTotal Modification Cost (1 → 5) The permanent Signal Search: Star-Studded Cast Every Exclusive Channel and W-Engine Channel There is 1 Shop that sells Weeping Gemini: Weeping Gemini has not been promoted or...

zenless-zone-zero.fandom.com

And don't even get me started on the stupid mindscapes.

Can you imagine just how much money you need to throw at the game to get these mindcapes for S rank agents with all the RNG BS you have to deal with? Fuck 'em. You don't need any of them even for the endgame stuff.

 

[Pejo]

I personally don't usually give a shit about W-Engines anyways because you never see them in gameplay. They just added viewing them on the shelf in the bedroom (that you never have to use anymore since they added time change to the pause menu). This is something I thing ZZZ and Star Rail get wrong. For meta players and whales, fine, they'll get the engines, but there's no real pull for casuals and aesthetic players. Nagi uses the same weapon in combat with the same SFX no matter which W-Engine she's using, so frankly as long as it's not healing the enemy, I don't care. You're essentially paying (a lot of) money for numbers in a database. At least in Genshin you see the weapon you spent rolls for, every time you use a character in combat.

If I were in charge of monetizing W-Engines and making them appealing to customers, I'd add a special effect to combat like (For Nagi) blue to purple to red lightning when you're nearing triggering Anomaly or something - if you have the Signature. Maybe for MIyabi she gets a special sheathing animation after her attacks if you have her Sig and stop pressing buttons after an attack chain. Shit like that. That way you have numbers for the meta chasers, cool aesthetics for casuals, etc. They touched on this in Genshin for Arlecchino's weapon, where her signature spear morphs into a scythe during attacks and has special blood thorn effects during attacks/wind down animations.

Any "normal" weapon:

Her signature weapon:

Revenue in this game is dropping month after month, and I think part of it is that the W-Engines aren't universally appealing. I don't even see many people pulling for dupes of characters much in ZZZ (again, outside of whales). People have seen this gacha system through several games and iterations at this point. With the way HoYo builds patches, that maxed out character you just made is going to be obsolete or not using the *new* mechanics that will be all over the endgame modes that release 2 patches from now. It's just a really bad investment outside of your favorites and/or supports that are universally useful and hard to powercreep.

 

[ap_puff]

I personally don't usually give a shit about W-Engines anyways because you never see them in gameplay. They just added viewing them on the shelf in the bedroom (that you never have to use anymore since they added time change to the pause menu). This is something I thing ZZZ and Star Rail get wrong. For meta players and whales, fine, they'll get the engines, but there's no real pull for casuals and aesthetic players. Nagi uses the same weapon in combat with the same SFX no matter which W-Engine she's using, so frankly as long as it's not healing the enemy, I don't care. You're essentially paying (a lot of) money for numbers in a database. At least in Genshin you see the weapon you spent rolls for, every time you use a character in combat.

If I were in charge of monetizing W-Engines and making them appealing to customers, I'd add a special effect to combat like (For Nagi) blue to purple to red lightning when you're nearing triggering Anomaly or something - if you have the Signature. Maybe for MIyabi she gets a special sheathing animation after her attacks if you have her Sig and stop pressing buttons after an attack chain. Shit like that. That way you have numbers for the meta chasers, cool aesthetics for casuals, etc. They touched on this in Genshin for Arlecchino's weapon, where her signature spear morphs into a scythe during attacks and has special blood thorn effects during attacks/wind down animations.

Any "normal" weapon:

Her signature weapon:

Revenue in this game is dropping month after month, and I think part of it is that the W-Engines aren't universally appealing. I don't even see many people pulling for dupes of characters much in ZZZ (again, outside of whales). People have seen this gacha system through several games and iterations at this point. With the way HoYo builds patches, that maxed out character you just made is going to be obsolete or not using the *new* mechanics that will be all over the endgame modes that release 2 patches from now. It's just a really bad investment outside of your favorites and/or supports that are universally useful and hard to powercreep.

Should be important to note that ZZZ is much less of a mobile game due to its high hardware demands and gameplay difficulty on mobile. I'd expect most of their revenue to come from PC and console. Also they do give effects to signature w-engines but it's only a slight glow to things like hair or clothes in combat. Nothing like a specific weapon model or new animations.

Also,

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Nagi uses the same weapon in combat with the same SFX no matter which W-Engine she's using

personal w-engines do have a special effect though, it makes the character's hair glow when using EX attacks.

 

[Pejo]

personal w-engines do have a special effect though, it makes the character's hair glow when using EX attacks.

Also they do give effects to signature w-engines but it's only a slight glow to things like hair or clothes in combat. Nothing like a specific weapon model or new animations.

Huh, I've never seen it. Though, to be fair, the only Signature W-Engine that I have both it and the character is Soldier 11's. I'll have to try it out later and see if I can notice.

*edit*

Looks like the 4*s do it too. I did notice Corin's hair glow, but I thought that was just part of her base kit. Pretty cool, TIL.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Pejo
Ya you make some good points about not actually seeing the engines (or LCs in Star Rail) it’s definitely a huge part of the fun in Genshin.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

I mean, to each their own I guess, but are we seriously talking about paying obscene sums of money for SFX and glowing hair?

Idk how I managed to do it, but cuz of some miracle and after getting Caesar's engine (if it wasn't for a stupid mistake, I'd saved 80 tapes to get a new character instead) I got all the new agents and saved 20 tapes already after gettin' Nagi, but do all here as "lucky" as I or other people around the world? It's not worth gettin' these things imho cuz characters themselves are much more important and even if you don't have their signature engine, you're still gettin' a completely new character with a distinct move set which shreds everything in his path.

At the end of the day it's not worth it and you can buy new games or whatever else instead of paying for numbers and SFX you don't really need. If you're swimming in money and don't know how to spend it, then sure, go for it, otherwise it might get ugly and get you into trouble financially.

 

[ap_puff]

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Mihoyo, y'all got some of them lighter summons yet?

 

[Pejo]

Nice Yanagi cosplay:

Spoiler: More

Some Rina too, same girl:

 

[Spyxos]

For a long time I couldn't decide who to pick. Yanagi or Lighter. But I decided on Yanagi and won the 50/50. She just seems a bit complicated to play.

 

[ap_puff]

For a long time I couldn't decide who to pick. Yanagi or Lighter. But I decided on Yanagi and won the 50/50. She just seems a bit complicated to play.

It's not that complicated... Have you tried the event out? They give you 3 levels where you get to play solo yanagi. It's just normal attack spam but every once in a while you press ex special to change stances to maintain both buffs, and every 3rd time or so you do the hold EX to maintain the special state that lets you only do electric infused normals. The only slightly complicated thing to learn might be the fact that both versions of EX can parry incoming attacks like caesar but it's honestly nbd

 

[Aenima]

For a long time I couldn't decide who to pick. Yanagi or Lighter. But I decided on Yanagi and won the 50/50. She just seems a bit complicated to play.

Shes not that hard, but if you want max damage output from her, then she becomes very technical. Because her big damage comes from performing combos, and switching stances to keep the buffs up, and if shes interrupted you need to restart the combo. Caeser Shield helps alot Yanagi to keep her focused on the combos without worring about interruption. Yanagi herself also has some anti interruption moves, so most of the time she just gets interrupted against very agressive bosses that attack alot of times in a row.

Right now my Yanagi team is the 2nd strongest team i have, just a bit behind my Jane Doe team, Jade Doe is just better overall and much easier to use, but Yanagi has been alot of fun to play with her big AOEs and fighting against machine type enemies.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

For a long time I couldn't decide who to pick. Yanagi or Lighter. But I decided on Yanagi and won the 50/50. She just seems a bit complicated to play.

Congrats. Happy for you. Nice.

 

[Spyxos]

It's not that complicated... Have you tried the event out? They give you 3 levels where you get to play solo yanagi. It's just normal attack spam but every once in a while you press ex special to change stances to maintain both buffs, and every 3rd time or so you do the hold EX to maintain the special state that lets you only do electric infused normals. The only slightly complicated thing to learn might be the fact that both versions of EX can parry incoming attacks like caesar but it's honestly nbd

Shes not that hard, but if you want max damage output from her, then she becomes very technical. Because her big damage comes from performing combos, and switching stances to keep the buffs up, and if shes interrupted you need to restart the combo. Caeser Shield helps alot Yanagi to keep her focused on the combos without worring about interruption. Yanagi herself also has some anti interruption moves, so most of the time she just gets interrupted against very agressive bosses that attack alot of times in a row.

Right now my Yanagi team is the 2nd strongest team i have, just a bit behind my Jane Doe team, Jade Doe is just better overall and much easier to use, but Yanagi has been alot of fun to play with her big AOEs and fighting against machine type enemies.

I haven't played the event with her yet. Thanks for the tips, she just seemed a lot more difficult than all the other characters so far. And I had problems recognizing which stance I was currently in, because they look relatively similar and paying attention to the hair and the little signs in the top left doesn't always work for me.

Congrats. Happy for you. Nice.

I probably shouldn't mention that Miyabi is guaranteed

 

[Aenima]

I haven't played the event with her yet. Thanks for the tips, she just seemed a lot more difficult than all the other characters so far. And I had problems recognizing which stance I was currently in, because they look relatively similar and paying attention to the hair and the little signs in the top left doesn't always work for me.


I probably shouldn't mention that Miyabi is guaranteed

The best way to recognize the stances is by looking at her attacks. Especially the final attack of her combo that has a longer animation, is very unique to that stance so you can tell what stance shes at. One stace only does horizontal slashes, the other does vertical slashes and jumps. Her ribbon in the back also change colour depending of the stance but is hard to see during combat.

I dont care much about what stance shes at cuz im constantly changing stances. Pretty much how i play with Yanagi goes like this: Start with a 6 normal attack combo, switch stance, 3 normal attack combo, switch stance, 3 normal attack combo... and so on. When the enemy has anomally built up, press and hold the EX for a disorder attack and keep repeating the combos.

 

[ap_puff]

The best way to recognize the stances is by looking at her attacks. Especially the final attack of her combo that has a longer animation, is very unique to that stance so you can tell what stance shes at. One stace only does horizontal slashes, the other does vertical slashes and jumps. Her ribbon in the back also change colour depending of the stance but is hard to see during combat.

I dont care much about what stance shes at cuz im constantly changing stances. Pretty much how i play with Yanagi goes like this: Start with a 6 normal attack combo, switch stance, 3 normal attack combo, switch stance, 3 normal attack combo... and so on. When the enemy has anomally built up, press and hold the EX for a disorder attack and keep repeating the combos.

Btw the hold EX gives you a big buff so you want that constantly up, in fact if you have energy consider starting battle off with it. It lasts 15s and it's bigger than both stance bonuses combined considering it's your entire core skill

 

[Aenima]

Btw the hold EX gives you a big buff so you want that constantly up, in fact if you have energy consider starting battle off with it. It lasts 15s and it's bigger than both stance bonuses combined considering it's your entire core skill

I use the hold EX to switch stances and do disorder damage at same time during the combo loop, but i wait untill the enemy has anomally built up cuz it triggers Yanagi's Polarity Disorder. This is why Yanagi is a very tecnical character, cuz in order to keep her max damage output you need to stay in the combo and can get all her buffs stacked if the combo loop is not interrupted.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Goddamn bastards is what they are...

Spoiler

Won 75/25

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Goddamn bastards is what they are...

Spoiler

Won 75/25

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Are you alright up there ma dude? I'm... I'm gettin' worried...

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Thick Thighs Save Lives

Are you alright up there ma dude? I'm... I'm gettin' worried...

I'm just teasing you guys so don't mind me.

I'm also saving my polys for Miyabi's banner (have 10k polys and 20 pulls saved so far).

 

[ap_puff]

I'm just teasing you guys so don't mind me.

I'm also saving my polys for Miyabi's banner (have 10k polys and 20 pulls saved so far).

Better save some $ for Astra Yao lol. She showed up in this week's event in the form of bangboo and she's speculated to be an ice support, the first 5* support in the game.

 

[Aenima]

I'm just teasing you guys so don't mind me.

I'm also saving my polys for Miyabi's banner (have 10k polys and 20 pulls saved so far).

The secretary mommy destroyed all my ZZZ savings. Im now at only 4k polys and 8 tapes. Good thigs thers 2 doods banners coming up so i can keep saving untill Miyabi, but not sure if it will be enough to garantee her if i lose another 50/50 as bad as Yanagi that took me 160 pulls to get her.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Better save some $ for Astra Yao lol. She showed up in this week's event in the form of bangboo and she's speculated to be an ice support, the first 5* support in the game.

Aren't you forgetting someone....?

The secretary mommy destroyed all my ZZZ savings.

Same here, but I already got 18 tapes back.

Speaking of dudes... Idk how much can you trust rumors but... it looks like Miyabe will be the first in 1.4 so we potentially have only 50+ days to save enough stuff.

 

[ap_puff]

Aren't you forgetting someone....?

Same here, but I already got 18 tapes back.

Speaking of dudes... Idk how much can you trust rumors but... it looks like Miyabe will be the first in 1.4 so we potentially have only 50+ days to save enough stuff.

Standard banners dont count lol

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Standard banners dont count lol

And why is that? If it's not exclusive channel, it doesn't mean that launch characters don't count.