Some people seem to think that ordinary burglars forfeit their right to live just by breaking and entering someone's house, so it's not surprising.
Well said.
Mass murderer Breivik threatened hunger strike over Rayman Revolution
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
Some people seem to think that ordinary burglars forfeit their right to live just by breaking and entering someone's house, so it's not surprising.
Well said.
Solid Samus
Banned
How isolated is he?
Are we talking constant solitary?
Are we talking constant solitary?
He was sentenced to 21 years, and even though people say he'll never get out, you never know what'll happen in the evaluation. Don't see a problem with what the article states.
Flightmare
Member
"Breivik was sentenced to 21 years in prison" is incorrect, he was sentenced to 21 years preventive detention. There's a difference
This is true, I was in the military and I did some training on simulators. But Modern Warfare 2 is no simulator, my friend, it is a fantasy game made for fun.
I really appreciate the kind words. Part of the reason I've been successful so far in this road was because of people like you who have encouraged me. Those on NeoGAF who believed in me even when I was making the dumbest mistakes and clearly not thinking of the consequences. These people, along with my family and friends (and my loving fiancee most of all), who were completely there for me, no judgments, and understood precisely the nature of my problems.
My sister helped me lose over 100 lbs, NeoGAF helped me retain my sanity, and my friends and rest of my family helped keep me on the path where I otherwise would have given into my weakness.
But man, it's impossible to illustrate just how important forgiveness is. It really has the power to change your life. And given my principle in this now, it extends to the belief that no matter how horrific the crime (as in the case of Breivik), we should design prisons with rehabilitation and avoidance of further mental instability in mind, and the possibility of reintegration into society. It is the only thing that makes sense to me anymore. It doesn't offend me at all that someone in prison may have a videogame, because that's probably a more positive outlook than sitting at the wall jerking off all day and mulling over who to shank so you can have a change of scenery and drama for a day,.
This thread is a roller coaster of surreality for me.
First you have the mixed feelings of anger (when talking about him) and huge laughter when reading the "games" he should receive (gba without lights is my favorite)
Also in the surreal part is people saying USA prisons are inhumane.
I live in Brazil. Trust me when I say that USA prisons are VERY humane =P
That said, I like the basic idea of trying to make a prisoner a better person.
First you have the mixed feelings of anger (when talking about him) and huge laughter when reading the "games" he should receive (gba without lights is my favorite)
Also in the surreal part is people saying USA prisons are inhumane.
I live in Brazil. Trust me when I say that USA prisons are VERY humane =P
That said, I like the basic idea of trying to make a prisoner a better person.
....lol typewriter
Him, single guy, is not the whole point of the shtick.
The whole point is: We, Civilized Society, Are Not Like You.
We, Civilized Society, will not take revenge.
We, Civilized Society, will not bend the law.
We, Civilized Society, will not kill, torture or dehumanize people. For any reason, for that reasons can be fabricated and bent.
It's a stand. Even the worst criminal the nation has produced will not be mistreated. Because the agreement of the society is not that - there'll be no sanctioned mistreatment of anyone, for any reason, and that's that. No matter what.
The whole point is: We, Civilized Society, Are Not Like You.
We, Civilized Society, will not take revenge.
We, Civilized Society, will not bend the law.
We, Civilized Society, will not kill, torture or dehumanize people. For any reason, for that reasons can be fabricated and bent.
It's a stand. Even the worst criminal the nation has produced will not be mistreated. Because the agreement of the society is not that - there'll be no sanctioned mistreatment of anyone, for any reason, and that's that. No matter what.
This is not a common street thug who is doing time for slinging dope. This is a sociopath who intentionally and systematically went about killing a large amount of people. Rehabilitation should not be part of the conversation.
He should be thankful he gets a square meal every day - but it sounds like he's in a hotel to me.
He should be thankful he gets a square meal every day - but it sounds like he's in a hotel to me.
Jesus Christ, you're a better man than me Amirox, glad to hear you've made such huge strides. If I was face to face with the man who raped my mom, and caused her so much psychological trauma, that to this day she still suffers from severe PTSD; I'd kill him, or at the very least someone would have to stop me from trying. Forgiveness would frankly never be apart of the equation, because that man destroyed my mom's innocent life.
I don't think I could ever forgive, and honestly my mom would probably try and kill him too.
King_Richard
Member
This is more sad than anything. Also I feel like I've heard this before for some reason.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
There are law abiding non murderous people who can't afford the things he thinks he deserves.
They don't have to treat him like an animal, but they also don't have to keep him 100% happy and entertained.
They don't have to treat him like an animal, but they also don't have to keep him 100% happy and entertained.
I told the story before, but trust me when I say I understand where you're coming from. And I do not judge anyone who cannot forgive. It was the most difficult thing imaginable for me to come around. The hardest thing I had to do in my life, even harder than quitting my drug addiction or losing one hundred pounds.
Here is a link to just one individual story of how horrible my mom's family is to her. A true warning, it's really horrible. She was raped literally hundreds of times by over a dozen relatives during her childhood. From the age of 5 to 8 she was called "little wifey" to her other family because everyone knew she was being molested and that my grandmother's boyfriend liked her more than my grandmom, but even still my grandmom denied it. For ages. If you want to have your stomach turn, read the link.
Like I said in this topic, my change of heart was so recent on all this that we're talking under two years (note that post came from 2011, where I was still unprepared to forgive them). It took forever for me to come to this place, because me and mom both realized things like this (and me being molested by a family member as well, even though I have vague memory of it) was destroying us. My mom still has trust issues to this day, and will wake up screaming at the top of her lungs if anyone taps her when she's asleep.
But together we went to therapy, and also separately, and me and her had many discussions that went so deep into the night that it was like a refreshing shower when we were done. But what we concluded both was that forgiveness was the only way - true, all-encompassing forgiveness, the kind that allows you to wish these people success and the fortitude to change their own flaws. It was completely true to her faith and religion as well, as well as my outlook about humanity as an atheist. We cried a lot over it, and we found strength in each other. And we forged that path together, and it has changed us forever. I cannot emphasize enough what it did. Despite my mom's illness slowly killing her, I haven't seen her this happy in years.
the conversation naturally goes where it goes. I feel the issue of forgiveness and how it relates to how we treat prisoners like Breivik is important, and the anecdote about how it changed my life relates to how I came to this conclusion.
If you don't have anything to add to that, there's plenty of other people in this topic discussing other things about this subject. My commentary does not prevent that, as we can see plenty of other people discussing other things. Enjoy the topic!
10101
Gold Member
It is good you managed to get over that together Ami, truly that is quite inspiring and heartwarming. I doubt I would have been the bigger man in that instance and certainly wouldn't have managed dinner with the man. I doff my hat to you sir.
Christ, that story was horrific. That kind of prolonged abuse is absolutely despicable. Makes my blood boil just reading it. Glad you and your mother have been able to move past such difficult and complicated issues.
Thanks guys, genuinely. If you guys have further questions or anything PM, because I don't want folk like codhands to feel uncomfortable discussing the subject at hand and I guess it is beginning to be "about me" now.
All that said, forgiveness is important, and making a prison system that focuses on rehabilitation - genuine rehabilitation - is an essential cornerstone for any successful society imo. I was sharing why I came to that conclusion after so many years of my life.
How do others view the prison system? What should be allowed and what shouldn't be? Are videogames really the line some people draw? Should any prisoner, no matter how horrible the crime, be forced to sit and stare at a wall, maybe write some stuff on a paper? What is the line?
This guy's crimes were despicable, no doubt about it. And I wish the press would stop reporting the absurd things he said. But do you think making his prison stay cruel would help matters?
All that said, forgiveness is important, and making a prison system that focuses on rehabilitation - genuine rehabilitation - is an essential cornerstone for any successful society imo. I was sharing why I came to that conclusion after so many years of my life.
How do others view the prison system? What should be allowed and what shouldn't be? Are videogames really the line some people draw? Should any prisoner, no matter how horrible the crime, be forced to sit and stare at a wall, maybe write some stuff on a paper? What is the line?
This guy's crimes were despicable, no doubt about it. And I wish the press would stop reporting the absurd things he said. But do you think making his prison stay cruel would help matters?
CriterionDog
Member
He's upset that he doesn't have luxuries when he just murdered 77 people? ... How low people can go. This is upsetting...
Rayman 3 is better than Rayman 2.
reynal1287
Member
i can respect the rehabilitation thing in Norway prisons, but not the luxuries the prisoners have.
SpartanN92
Banned
Everybody is joking here but let's be real... Why do prisoners get videogames? TVs? Any form of luxury AT ALL (Especially a murderer) he is sitting in prison playing games on the tax payers dollar!!!
Fuck this guy. He should be in the fields doing hard labor for 20 hours a day for the rest of his life and his only "Luxury" would be the 4 hours of sleep he is allowed each night and the small portions of grool he is given to eat.
That's more than that son of a bitch deserves!
Fuck this guy. He should be in the fields doing hard labor for 20 hours a day for the rest of his life and his only "Luxury" would be the 4 hours of sleep he is allowed each night and the small portions of grool he is given to eat.
That's more than that son of a bitch deserves!
So you endorse essentially torture and cruel and unusual punishment?
Is this really how you want society to be run, like the Taliban or North Korea? I'm not asking to mock you or anything, because I understand how profoundly difficult it is to view these people as anything other than monsters. It's hard NOT to dehumanize an individual who commits such heinous crimes. But this behavior does not actually accomplish anything other than satisfy some primal blood lust. It's not actually constructive.
I think you just described North Korea.
What he deserves:
[/IMG]
The pain... It still hurts!
*Vomits*
Slightly off topic... That seems an awfully short sentence for the committed crimes...
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
As much as rehabilitating a person should be the focus of imprisonment ... i cannot imagine this boy coming back into society in his country and being able to ever get past the stigma that everyone... nevermind his hometown.. but the whole world basically.. knows exactly who he is, what he did.
It will follow him everywhere. And his lack of empathy, sorrow or regret for his actions is even more damning. People can almost understand and move past passion crimes, career criminals that may have only known one way of life, circumstance and location being a determining factor of violence in someones past - all of this is something a prisoner can relate to a world/public. To connect in some way...
the wanton killing of 77 innocent people to make a point? I don't think there is any rehabbing that. Forgiveness from victims families? if they are strong enough and centered enough - sure maybe yes... but the world at large? Never.
It will follow him everywhere. And his lack of empathy, sorrow or regret for his actions is even more damning. People can almost understand and move past passion crimes, career criminals that may have only known one way of life, circumstance and location being a determining factor of violence in someones past - all of this is something a prisoner can relate to a world/public. To connect in some way...
the wanton killing of 77 innocent people to make a point? I don't think there is any rehabbing that. Forgiveness from victims families? if they are strong enough and centered enough - sure maybe yes... but the world at large? Never.
There is no need or point of trying to be constructive with a mass murderer. See: Bundy, Ted; Fish, Albert; Rader, Dennis, etc
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
10101
Gold Member
I don't think it would help, what's done is done but I do think the prison system (certainly here in the UK) can be too lenient at times. I kind of agree with what you're saying but at the same time I believe it should be a punishment, there should be time to reflect on what you have done and how this affects others. I don't think whiling the hours away playing video games is a good way to do it personally.
I do believe in rehabilitation but when it is thrust in peoples faces like this (especially victims families) I think it can do more damage than good. In my mind if I was a victim I wouldn't want to hear of this, I wouldn't want to know the killer of my mum/wife/son etc was sitting there playing games or making demands of any kind. Rehabilitation should come in the form of counselling not a cushy prison sentence. That's my two pence worth anyhow
Ah... Makes sense now. Thanks for the clarification.
SpartanN92
Banned
That labor could at least help pay the financial cost of his incarceration.
You cannot let people think that committing these heinous crimes will only get them 2 decades in a comfy prison with video games... You have to teach these animals that there are consequences for ruining lives.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Well, this thread sure is bringing out all the "only 21 years?!" people again. No, it's not only 21 years. That is technically his sentence, but it can be extended again and again if he's not deemed fit to reenter society. He's not getting out anytime soon, if ever. Read up on stuff or something.
As for him living in "luxury" when he should be living in hell for what he's done... well, I understand that it's a bit dfficult to accept that he seems to be having such an easy time in there, but take a look at the repeat offender statistics of Norway vs the US and then tell me which system works best. And while this guy has done something truly horrible and is hopefully never getting out (which some would say invalidates the rehabilitation argument), you can't just suddenly decide to throw the rules out and treat him differently than other people who commit crimes by putting him in an empty concrete box or whatever. He's part of the same prison system as everyone else. Also, I'm pretty sure that simpy having your freedom taken away from you lowers your quality of life by a massive degree. It's just that in Norway (and other countries) it's not seen as very productive to throw people in cages and treat them like animals, like you enjoy doing in the US.
As for him living in "luxury" when he should be living in hell for what he's done... well, I understand that it's a bit dfficult to accept that he seems to be having such an easy time in there, but take a look at the repeat offender statistics of Norway vs the US and then tell me which system works best. And while this guy has done something truly horrible and is hopefully never getting out (which some would say invalidates the rehabilitation argument), you can't just suddenly decide to throw the rules out and treat him differently than other people who commit crimes by putting him in an empty concrete box or whatever. He's part of the same prison system as everyone else. Also, I'm pretty sure that simpy having your freedom taken away from you lowers your quality of life by a massive degree. It's just that in Norway (and other countries) it's not seen as very productive to throw people in cages and treat them like animals, like you enjoy doing in the US.
Ilúvatar;100867496 said:
The point is to be better than the criminals we put away. To provide an environment that can potentially rehabilitate and forgive any crime, no matter how horrible. To elevate ourselves beyond our baser instincts and desire for petty revenge.
These feelings have never once been constructive, yet we have reams of data which suggest precisely that rehabilitative prison environments due tons of good for society at large and the criminals in question.
So outside of it making me feel good, and society being better than the criminals we put away, it also has substantive positive impact for the community.
Is there a reason people believe this? As lenient as the original sentence I bet he gets out on the first day possible.
SpartanN92
Banned
By then he might even have a Playstation 6
Bryan Newman said:
He will be in prison the rest of his life. Please read how the sentence he got actually works in Norway.
The problem is, we're all "animals." You dehumanizing him by calling him such is not constructive (same as those who reflexively say 'he's a monster!' Yes, he's a horrible human being. Doesn't mean he's irredeemable, and even if it did, doesn't mean we need to stop providing an environment that allows for the keeping of some dignity and sanity). He's just a mentally unstable human being. There is a consequence for ruining lives whether he gets to play a videogame or not. And I totally agree, working is fine for prison. But it should be under humane conditions, not the North Korean death camp idea you just endorsed.
Would you be in favor of "rehabilitating" Hitler or Stalin?
It's so hard for me to say that this dude deserves any kind of comfort. I guess living in America, the idea of prison=punishment has rubbed off on me more than I realized. Making things more cruel from him, more than likely stems from that philosophy. You're right though, putting him in a SHU prison wouldn't bring back any of those people he killed or solve anything. I believe we should be trying to rehabilitate some people, but the sheer disregard this person showed for the lives of others . . . gah it's a tough. My brain knows how pointless it is to make things more miserable for him, but the heart wants what the heart wants, blood. It's fucked up, but after all the pain and suffering he caused, I just don't think he deserves a comfortable life at all.
But what I am really curious about, is why I'm hearing anything this person has to say period? You're absolutely right, the press needs to be better about this. I should frankly not have to hear a single word from Brevik, he should be neither seen nor heard from. He should be bitching about having to play kiddie games and possibly forced feeding, without me having to hear a single complaint. He should have fallen off the face of the Earth media-wise while he's locked up.
It could definitely be argued that he deserves basic amenities, as a human right, but he doesn't deserve any media attention. None.
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