StarCreator
Member
Where/what was that? I can't see it in the other pics.
Super "NeoGAF Arcade Stick Thread" II TURBO
- Thread starter MarkMan
- Start date
Where/what was that? I can't see it in the other pics.
It's from the MadCatz SCV stick. that little plastic prong was in the same spot as the harness for the Hayabusa, so I sawed it off with a pair of toenail clippers.
#macgyver
hairypeckpeck
Member
My girlfriend spoils me
My girlfriend spoils me
Nice!
I think the FE is by far the most comfortable stick I've had the privilege of using. If I had more cash, I'd seriously think about getting a white companion for my black one.
fushi
Member
Hey guys,
I have an unmodded HRAP 2 SA that I haven't used for a while. Now that Ikaruga is out on Steam I want to have some sticky fun with it, but I seem to lack a PS2>USB connector.
Now, my question is whether I should 1) seek out a PS2>USB connector, because the lag will be negligible, or should I 2) consider buying a USB stick instead?
I have an unmodded HRAP 2 SA that I haven't used for a while. Now that Ikaruga is out on Steam I want to have some sticky fun with it, but I seem to lack a PS2>USB connector.
Now, my question is whether I should 1) seek out a PS2>USB connector, because the lag will be negligible, or should I 2) consider buying a USB stick instead?
Almost any stick made for previous gen consoles is PC compatible, so if you've got a 360 or a PS3 you might as well just buy a stick for it. Factoring in the cost of the PS2 converter, seems like the best option to me.
jboyDominato
Neo Member
I personally use this adapter. Since its a ps to 360 adapter its plug n play on the pc/ recognized as a 360 controller, no need to use any programs for it (xpadder/joytokey etc.) I can confirm it works perfectly with the hrap2sa. I definitely recommended picking one up so you can use the best stick on pc. Theres also a home button on the adapter, which is perfect since there is none on the hrap2sa.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Contr...762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f8845572
Missed out on the Namco stick so I just made my own with an extra TE S.
Looks really nice! I love clean simple designs.
I know a lot of people use Art's Hobbies to print their art, and it says here he prints on cardstock, so I'd guess that's the way to go.
Couldn't wait for Hori USA so...
If the VLX is a mini Vewlix then the V3 Hayabusa is a mini VLX. Love the VLX artwork and it's glossy, unlike the matte finish of the V3 SA. A set of stickers is also included.
Nice stick! Does it have a padded bottom? They skipped that on the last WRAP.
now enjoy the fingerprints!
Couldn't wait for Hori USA so...
If the VLX is a mini Vewlix then the V3 Hayabusa is a mini VLX. Love the VLX artwork and it's glossy, unlike the matte finish of the V3 SA. A set of stickers is also included.
Nice, I have one too and honestly it's my favorite stick by far.
It's huge but it gets the job done and it's indestructible.
I'm looking to replace my stick and buttons with Hayabusa and Kuro parts since they're not as smooth anymore. If anyone could give me recommendations because I've been with a stock VLX for a while and I'd like some advice.
Plus how difficult would it be to dual mod the PS3 version just for convenience sake. I'd prefer to keep it as a Playstation stick but certain people are making me mod.
Or if anyone has owned a VLX and an FE, how would you compare the two?
Unfortunately, it's just bare cold metal
Ah, OK. Was kinda wondering why they dropped it last year with the WRAP. I guess they are moving away from it.
sixteen-bit
Member
Missed out on the Namco stick so I just made my own with an extra TE S.
Looking good!
This will seem completely out of context given that I meant to post this some weeks ago but never got around to doing so, but all my arcade sticks are either circular restrictor or or octagon restrictor, why do you guys hate the octo gate so much? I used to play with square gate when I first got into Street fighter around 2009, but got extremely annoyed by the fact that you could lock the joystick into the 4 corner directions, but if you wanted to move left, right, neutral up, or neutral crouch, it was a major pain in the ass doing so because unless I consciously went out of my way not to ride the gate, I would always press slightly too hard and hit a diagonal by accident. I also used to have a ton of trouble with moves involving quarter, half, or full circles, because the joystick would just smash into the walls for half the inputs. I got a GT-Y 5 years ago and I have quite literally found it to be perfect. Quarter circles and whatnot work perfectly because when you switch from down to right the joystick continually moves in that direction, instead of hitting a wall where it feels like a corner should be, and I play a lot of charge characters, being able to hold neutral left or neutral right without ever having to worry about the joystick slipping into a corner direction is an absolute godsend, not to mention that the whole thing is more intuitive to use, and more comfortable as well. I also play with a Happ Competition joystick some times and although there is no restrictor plate, the distance is easily far enough to not ever have to worry about bottoming out in the 4 main directions.
What say you FGC GAF?
What say you FGC GAF?
Don't play fighting much these days, but basically just whatever you're most comfortable with. I play shmups and prefer octagonal too, and on a side note I find it works nicely for Pac Man CE in lieu of an actual 4 way/diamond (and it's a nightmare on a straight square). I assume it'd still have issues with older 4 way games that don't handle diagonals gracefully though.
The big issue I've seen myself has nothing to do with the gate itself, it's that it's just not that common. Playing on your own stick is fine, but playing on someone else's there's a good chance it'll be a square gate. I don't have too much trouble on different sticks, just kind of an annoyance and adjustment to get used to it.
StarCreator
Member
I say not riding the gate is the way to go. If you intend to improve, relying on training wheels won't get you very far.
I used Octo-Gate for a while, but I like Square more. It's just much easier to use in fighting games, which is my primary reason for owning a stick. I also find that Square is better with things other than fighting than Octo is with fighters... at least in my preference.
Nothing WRONG with Octo though. it's largely preference.
Nothing WRONG with Octo though. it's largely preference.
If you get stuck in the corner you're pushing way too hard on the lever. Use whatever you want, but know that octo handicaps your diagonals.
Whenever I go to a local tournament with my stick and trade with someone else the reactions are funny. I run into the game and start fucking up moves because I'm used to octagon, he has a funny look on his face because he's used to square. That's why I always bring my own stick though, you can't expect people to have a niche modification all the time.
I always find it kind of funny how condescending that post is. Not the way you wrote it, or the fact that you wrote it, it's not condescending in a personal way, but just the idea that moving a joystick just a little bit farther when you play video games is considered training wheels by a lot of people. Now to actually refute the point, I don't actually ride the gate, I mean that in the sense that 90% of the time I just flick my wrist to do a hadoken but never actually hit the gate, however if I feel like rotating the joystick along the gate I actually can, whereas with a square you are forced to learn how to use your stick differently or you will continuously slam into the walls of the gate. For example, although 90% of the time I never actually hit my gate, whenever I'm doing a 720 motion, I can do it significantly faster by riding along an octo gate, than if I was using a square gate and really trying hard to consciously not hit the gate. It's not like riding the gate necessarily means putting all the force you can into a movement, but rather using the gate to guide my motion. The claim that using the gate as a guide is analogous to training wheels is absolutely absurd to me, it's as if the thought is based on the idea that the gate is this enormous space, whereas it is a very short amount of space and it doesn't take long to do moves if you were to ride the gate. With an octogate if I consciously ride the gate, I can still throw a hadoken about twice as slowly as I can do a sweep, which when taking into account how fast a sweep is, is a very very fast movement. I think riding the gate is only looked at as a handicap because it is impossible to do with a square gate, and leads to awful results, whereas with the natural feeling shape of an octagon, it can actually lead to higher accuracy and more satisfying motion.
I completely disagree that a square is much easier to use in fighting games. Of course this completely comes down to preference, I believe that it is somewhat of a universal benefit being able to lock the joystick in all 8 directions you can move the joystick, as well as create a continuous circular motion without having to learn to skip corners. I can see how you could prefer it perhaps, but to a new player I believe a circular or octagonal gate is superior 9/10 times. I also disagree that square is better for non-fight games too, because although it is great for 4 way games because you can rotate the square into a diamond, you still can't hold the stick solidly in left right up or down if you are playing 8 way. which is a huge handicap a lot of the time imo, and although the octagon has no 4 way mode, it is much easier for me to only lock into the 4 main directions in a 4 way game than to just be really careful with a square.
Obviously if you are pressing on the joystick so hard it moves on your lap and then you hit a diagonal you are pressing too hard, but I think the fact that you can lock in, and therefore put effectively unlimited pressure and basically zero thought into hitting one of the 4 way directions is a fundamental benefit to using an octagon for 8 way games instead of a square. Not necessarily practical benefit to some people of course, some people never go near the gate, but fundamentally it's a big difference. Also, Octagon does not handicap my diaganols, in fact it improves them. Although mathematically speaking it should be harder to hit diagonals because they make up a lesser percentage of the overall space in the octagon, if you take in to account that most of the time people hit a diagonal they are moving from a 4 way direction like up, left, right, or down, into the diagonal, it is actually much easier on an octagon because you can lock the joystick into one of the 4 main directions, and then slide it a predictable amount to lock it into a corner direction. On the flip side, I always felt like square massively handicaps the 4 main directions given that either consciously or subconsciously you have to think to hold it in that direction, whereas with an octagon if you press up or down, it just stays there. That's the main reason I made the switch initially. I was always annoyed by the fact that about 1/5 of the time when I was doing a charge+back+down into a forward dash punch, it would come out as a buffalo head or a dash low forward, because either I would think I am centered but I am not because there is no way to tell, or I would actually hit the middle and accidentally move it into a corner inadvertently, I have never had that problem with an octagon, and rarely with my happ joystick.
I'm not trying to argue that these things are universal preferences or fact or anything, but the personal advantage an octagon gives me is so big over square that I feel the need to debate this.
I made a video for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziXFNjTRLNw
How much time did you spend with a square gate?
actually after reading this it's pretty clear that you are either holding the stick very strangely or pushing wayyyy too hard. Just relax a bit and try square again, there's a reason it's the gold standard.
I spent about 1 1/2 years with a square gate. I never had inputs even half as clean as the ones you are doing in that tekken example, but then again I don't play with 2 fingers softly pressing in either direction. I don't smash my joystick around, not by a long shot, I naturally play with a similar grip as Daigo, with my pinky and my thumb on 1 side of the joystick with my 3 middle fingers on the left side. I don't smash it around but I don't play softly either, there is always a noticeable clunk when I hit directions, but a soft clunk, not like a smash or anything, only about as much as you in your video when you hit left and touch the gate. In actual gameplay I couldn't do 10 hadokens in a row without accidently hitting one of the upper diagonals or missing an input after about 7 of them. and quite frequently I blew my dash punches as rog, whereas with an octagon I have probably 40 or 50% higher accuracy. I guess it's just me but octagon is way better for me for some reason.
The reason it's the gold standard is because it is the mathematical default basically, it is just the easiest way to design and manufacture an 8 way joystick restrictor plate, it likely has nothing to do with actual quality. It also probably has something to do with 4 way games being popular in japan.
EDIT: Actually there is a very important factor I forgot about, I play on my lap rather than on a table. on a table I never really had trouble with a square gate, the trouble was on my lap, yet on my lap I never get trouble from octagon. Probably should have mentioned that earlier, lap is completely different when it comes to input accuracy.
Virtua Fighter? I actually only glanced at the screen and saw characters moving really familiarly in 3D, I didn't notice it wasn't Tekken lol.
Nobody plays on tables, I just put it there so I could record the screen and my hand. You can see when I play more naturally I hit the 3 direction cleaner.
mmmmm look at that shit, inputs so clean you could eat right off em. And yes that is a one-frame knee, I'm coming to kick your ass west coast!
But yeah, shelve that "2,4,6 and 8 are hard to hit on square gate" BS because it is 100% false. that's not how microswitches work.
It's 100% true imo. especially left. I hit left with my thumb and which is inherently a motion that would start pushing the joystick into the top left corner, but it stops left and doesn't budge, whereas if I go from bottom right to top left on the stick with a square gate my thumb would end up pushing it into the top left corner about 1/4 or 1/3 of the time, something that fundamentally doesn't happen on an octagon. That's not to say the main directions are difficult to hit on a square gate, but the chance of moving the joystick by accident on a square is enormously more accurate. Then again that's probably why it is considered training wheels to use the gate on square, because if you ride the gate your inputs are guaranteed to fuck up pretty often. That doesn't happen with an octagon.Nobody plays on tables, I just put it there so I could record the screen and my hand. You can see when I play more naturally I hit the 3 direction cleaner.
mmmmm look at that shit, inputs so clean you could eat right off em. And yes that is a one-frame knee, I'm coming to kick your ass west coast!
But yeah, shelve that "2,4,6 and 8 are hard to hit on square gate" BS because it is 100% false. that's not how microswitches work.
It's not an opinion thing.
if you are activating more than one microswitch when trying to hit 2,4,6 or 8, you are riding the gate.
You're not supposed to do that. That's not the gate's fault.
StarCreator
Member
The square gate is nothing more than allowing the maximum range of movement before the actuator would collide with the microswitch bodies. If you are pushing the lever with enough force that you slide along the gate involuntarily, you are doing things very, very wrong, to the point I would never let you use one of my sticks for fear of you breaking it.
According to the amount of reasoning I've heard from people saying you're not supposed to do that, the only reason you're not supposed to do that is that you're not supposed to do that. It makes sense that in theory you might get better responses and execution if you never touch the gate, but there is only anything inherently wrong with riding the gate on a square gate because you can't do circular motions inside of a square without avoiding the square. Maybe there is a good reason but I have yet to hear it. Also I would like to add that pretty much everyone who plays charge characters rides the gate according to that description. Not in the sense of moving the stick around the gate, but in the sense of holding it in position for a charge leaning it against a corner or something.It's not an opinion thing.
if you are activating more than one microswitch when trying to hit 2,4,6 or 8, you are riding the gate.
You're not supposed to do that. That's not the gate's fault.
That specific instance maybe, but it stems from a fundamental problem with a square in a game where you sometimes need to hold 4 way directions.Definitely operator error.
You are one excessively paranoid person lol. I think you guys are massively overestimating how much bigger the octagon is than the square. The difference is obviously noticeable but it's not going to be microswitch breaking, not by a long shot. Also, where the hell do you get the idea that touching the gate requires a lot of pressure? The size of the actual microswitch is a few millimeters, if you think moving the joystick 3-5 mm farther than what it requires to activate a switch is hugely excessive you have one broken ass frame of reference. You guys are letting the whole "pros don't touch the gate" philosophy get to your heads too much, it's not like by touching the gate you are suddenly any worse of a player. I've placed high at local tournaments and have around upwards of 6k battle points in SF4 and although I don't mash the joystick, I certainly use the gate from time to time. It is very useful to ride the octagon for 720 motions or holding your joystick in the bottom back corner for charging moves, even if you rarely touch it otherwise. Unless you have perfect muscle memory it can be quite easy to whiff a 720 if you don't go near the gate, all it takes is one input to fail.
Important context missing. I never had clean inputs on a square gate AND when I switched to an octagon gate my inputs became perfect. I believe that is on fault of the square gate. Not that the square gate is bad in itself, but the way I fundamentally think about 8 way movement I think of all 8 ways as being unique spots where a square gate forces you to learn a new way of movement, and even after learning it and getting used to it it sucked to me. It's frankly unfortunate that you and others have to learn to never touch the gate of your joystick in order to achieve good accuracy, whereas the accuracy is inherent with an 8 way.
Running Wild
Neo Member
Got my Konami Hyper Stick today (Shirt came from a user selling custom Hyper Stick shirts on SRK I bought a few years back).
I've been looking for one of these for a long time, I almost bought one from Jap-Sai a few years ago, but the shipping price was just too much for me. I bought this stick from a SRK user and it's in pretty good condition. Played around with mostly Third Strike, Hyper Fighting and CvS2 with it, and I think this stick has me sold on Seimitsu.
I've been looking for one of these for a long time, I almost bought one from Jap-Sai a few years ago, but the shipping price was just too much for me. I bought this stick from a SRK user and it's in pretty good condition. Played around with mostly Third Strike, Hyper Fighting and CvS2 with it, and I think this stick has me sold on Seimitsu.
StarCreator
Member
Riding the gate and touching the gate are two different things. Of course you're going to hit the gate for most movements. You're not supposed to outright slam against it though, and it's not required to touch the gate to actuate the microswitches. As has been stated multiple times, shoving against the gate - regardless of the type of restrictor - with such force that the actuator is forced to slide against it is completely unnecessary, and will damage your lever. I'd actually be surprised if your actuator isn't already dented and scraped up, which would only make the issues worse.
Explained this miscommunication in the response below this.
I don't outright slam against it. This is probably my bad actually I didn't get my thoughts across properly in text, it's kind of hard to describe kinesthetic feelings sometimes. What I meant is that when I am playing with an octagon gate, and this is what I have felt ever since I first installed the thing, is that when I am, for the sake of an example, playing balrog in street fighter IV, say I am charging down + back, and want to do a forward dash punch. My muscles know exactly where "forward" is because my hand is used to touching that specific position whenever I am walking forward or backward, so when I go to do the dash punch I hit it with 100% accuracy every time, whereas with a square gate, even though I used it for a very long time before I made the switch, I startling frequently would whiff the input, accidentally doing a buffalo head, or a dash low punch, because (this is completely speculation mind you,) my muscles were never used to being in a specific position on a square gate. Whenever I would hit a primary direction I would know I hit it because I moved my hand in roughly the correct direction and the character moved, but the microswitch never provided me with enough kinetic feedback to develop muscle memory for the primary directions, and I could never get very good precision when hitting the primary directions. Sure, I probably could have toughed it out and tried to learn to consciously override my instinct to move the joystick until it touches the gate (not slam, just moving it until it makes contact with the gate,) but with an octagon gate it was a completely intuitive system for me. I swear within 2 hours of practicing with an GT-Y my accuracy was equal to what it was with over a year with a Square. Within 2 days it was far beyond what I could ever do with a square gate. Now, to make myself clear here, I'm not trying to use my experience as anecdotal evidence to try and prove that GT-Y is factually superior, not by a long shot, I'm just looking for an explanation on why the square gate is so much more popular, because in my personal experience the GT-Y blows it out of the water, I genuinely don't understand why it is preferred.
I have made quite a few arcade sticks myself, I have done plenty of homework, this is 100% opinion based discussion, I'm not worried about mathematical percentages or anything like that, I'm just looking for an explanation on why so many people prefer square gates, given my huge preference for octo gates, I'm not trying to prove anything lol.
mdsfx
Member
Can we please move the semi-elitist "you're not using your joystick properly" argument elsewhere? This thread is usually such a blissful celebration arcade stick goodness. I hate to see it spoiled by the same never-ending arguments that run rampant on SRK.
Let's refocus: Balls and shafts, please. Balls and shafts...
Let's refocus: Balls and shafts, please. Balls and shafts...
Again, I have nothing to prove, and nothing in that exerpt from slagcoin contradicts what I have said, I'm sharing and looking for opinions, I would appreciate it if you would put it in your own words. It doesn't matter how equal the deadzone/throw ratio is to me if I can never get used to the fact that there is no lock position for the primary directions.
I'm not sure what you're referring to as semi-elitist. I started the discussion but I'm not telling anyone how to use their joysticks I'm just sharing my experience with octagon.
This is completely unrelated to my original topic, but I really don't understand where the belief that using a gate is poor technique comes from. Is it a nice skill to have to be able to play the game without ever touching the gate? Maybe, like, I guess. Is it noob to use a gate to guide your direction? No. Not by a long shot. Skill in fighting games is determined by when, how, and why you use your moves in-game, not by who's method of doing moves is more impressive. This kind of reminds of me of what would happen if two 6 year olds were playing street fighter against eachother. At some point it would become pretty obvious which one is better and doing a super combo, but at any higher level than that it completely stops mattering because it doesn't matter how you get your input as long as you get your input, unless you're cheating. There is plenty of hand flailing idiots who use square gates as well.
My first stick had an octagonal gate in it. When I bought my first square-gate stick, I felt like an idiot- I was dropping inputs all over the place, couldn't do an ultra to save my life, jumping when I meant to dash, and so forth. Turns out I was so reliant on the gate to point me to where up/down/left/right was that I never learned the muscle memory myself. I had to unlearn what I'd taught myself; no longer was it true that I could just flail my hand in a direction and the gate would fix my poor technique.
OK
It seems likely to me that the reason you're not hitting 7 anymore when you want 8 is that it is literally more difficult to hit diagonals on octagonal restrictors. aka you are still playing sloppy but you have found a gate that makes it harder to hit the directions you don't want.
good for you.
but this is also the explanation for why square gates come stock in every controller - because it delegates the engage zones equally rather than delegating throw evenly.
Do you understand?
To that end, I'll pose a question again that I asked on the last page: Now that Taito is teaming up with Hori to put some Hayabusas and Kuros in some arcade cabinets, does anyone think it's likely Hori will release a new run of VLXes with hayabusas and kuros? Maybe for PS4/XB1 or timed to release with Ultra?
mdsfx
Member
Just humorously referring to how this conversation usually ends up. I wasn't pointing fingers. It hasn't quite gotten to that point yet.