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[chadskin]

Can you link me to a source for this?

Got banned for #downgrade

jep, banned for "downgrade"

I saw those bans and deleted messages happening for other enraged entries related to the downgrade as well. Definitely not how you should handle the situation, imho.

Unfortunately, the Twitch stream plus chat isn't available in Ubisofts archive. Wonder why. It was a trainwreck all around.

Scrap what I said, the recorded livestream is here: http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/509039542

 

[Marcel]

Edit: chadskin beat me with a 2012 build Watch_Dogs blackjack

Can you link me to a source for this?

Sure. I was only speaking to the people here that got banned for asking about a downgrade. I can't speak for other communities or sites.

Got banned for #downgrade

I did the same thing and got banned also.

jep, banned for "downgrade"

It's around Page 72 in this thread.

 

[Jim Sterling]

Welp, my video's done. Will touch on the "bigger fight," as the handsome Jason quite rightly called it, but I do point out that, in my humble opinion, the 2014 footage looks inferior to the 2012 footage, and the funny thing is, it makes people think the "downgraded" version looks like shit when it does, in fact, look quite decent still. It just can't compare to the effects-laden video we saw running on some optimized beast machine (not the Transformer), and therefore it's made a decent looking game look bad, when we probably would have liked its visuals had we not seen the early stuff.

Because of course, this industry has never gotten its fucking head around the idea that unchecked, excessive levels of hype is not a good bloody idea.

 

[spannicus]

so this was a lie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8z3iG2QlJXk

 

[Shadownet]

One should check out the comment sections of the story trailers over at YouTube. Some good stuff.

@ PlayStation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGf35yUj4qo
@ Ubisoft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuAbH8Z8iwk
@ IGN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGZ1fwKcEmc

My favorite so far:

Most people on Youtube are clueless. I'm just shaking my head while reading some of this.

PS. Jason is doing major damage control for Ubisoft right now.

 

[plumpblumpkin]

What happened?... The game looked amazing and seemed to be FULLY playable and up and running on Jimmy Fallon demo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRxkBVrJWuQ

I don't understand why it couldn't look this good anymore..even with next gen systems.

 

[vpance]

TBH, I didn't think that 2012 reveal trailer was so mind bogglingly impressive as people seem to regard it here, and definitely not worth a soon to be 100+ page thread of outrage.

MGS4 downgrade from reveal was MUCH more egregious. There were several trailers released too, each looking worse than before. I felt disappointment for sure. But I imagine people would want Kojima's head on a platter if it happened in today's apparent new world order.

 

[vxXJordanXxv]

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving please continue.

 

[Marcel]

Most people on Youtube are clueless. I'm just shaking my head while reading some of this.

PS. Jason is doing major damage control for Ubisoft right now.

Eh. While I believe Jason is going soft on them in the interest of saving face, he's not doing any "major" damage control really. It's in his interest not to take a side until more of the bigger picture is filled in.

That said it's my feeling that apologizing for Ubisoft, who has used these types of dishonest tactics many times before, is the wrong way to go.

 

[spannicus]

PS4 controller connected to PC in that big ass box

 

[Dr Amazon MD]

It's totally my fault for wanting a game badly and then getting lied to. I should've waited to make sure that the game I was sold on was actually the game that was advertised.

Hmmm, I sure wish there was a media outlet that would report on these things. I sure wish that I was a better informed consumer, maybe a journalist could tell me about these things to make sure I don't get screwed over.

But, rats, it seems the journalists are too busy warning people about virtual tits in games. Silly me

Yes it is your fault. Now it's time to be condescending to Japanese "fan service," because our culture knows best. /s

Your first couple sentences say it perfectly. I just want to hear something from Ubi that's not PR rabble. Prove the many who concerned wrong.

I would real depressed if that is the final result on PS4. Honestly it looks I Photoshopped a picture of a hot wheels car onto a Midnight Club background...so somethings got to be up with it.

 

[plagiarize]

Welp, my video's done. Will touch on the "bigger fight," as the handsome Jason quite rightly called it, but I do point out that, in my humble opinion, the 2014 footage looks inferior to the 2012 footage, and the funny thing is, it makes people think the "downgraded" version looks like shit when it does, in fact, look quite decent still. It just can't compare to the effects-laden video we saw running on some optimized beast machine (not the Transformer), and therefore it's made a decent looking game look bad, when we probably would have liked its visuals had we not seen the early stuff.

Because of course, this industry has never gotten its fucking head around the idea that unchecked, excessive levels of hype is not a good bloody idea.

exactly. the things that wowed me in the original footage are now all gone. I can't look at it and ignore the omission, and I wouldn't likely have been bothered by those effect not being there had I never been shown them.

TBH, I didn't think that 2012 reveal trailer was so mind bogglingly impressive as people seem to regard it here, and definitely not worth a soon to be 100+ page thread of outrage.

MGS4 downgrade from reveal was MUCH more egregious. There were several trailers released too, each looking worse than before. I felt disappointment for sure. But I imagine people would want Kojima's head on a platter if it happened in today's apparent new world order.

If he'd refused to address it, or claimed that the downgrades weren't happening, maybe we would have had 100+ pages of outrage.

 

[spannicus]

PS4 controller connected to PC in that big ass box. Imagine if all the Watch Dogs PS4 bundles went out as planned, it would have been a homicide.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

I gotta agree with the sentiment of wanting the truth. If Ubi straight up came out and said "We tried and couldn't" I would not hold it against them. We can handle the truth.

And lose out on potential sales? No, they'll BS their way through release and maybe we'll get a good post-mortem a few months afterwards.

 

[Shadownet]

Eh. While I believe Jason is going soft on them in the interest of saving face, he's not doing any "major" damage control really. It's in his interest not to take a side until more of the bigger picture is filled in.

That said it's my feeling that apologizing for Ubisoft, who has used these types of dishonest tactics many times before, is the wrong way to go.

i mean, I'm waiting till launch day too but I think it's ridiculous that Jason think that Ubisoft have 2 months left that they can make the game look better.

that comment he left was just crazy. Realistically, the physical copies have to be made 1 month before.

Yup, Ubisoft have to stop doing this. until then. im not buying another game from them.

 

[faceless007]

It's totally my fault for wanting a game badly and then getting lied to. I should've waited to make sure that the game I was sold on was actually the game that was advertised.

Er, without wading into the topic of this specific game, yes, that's absolutely what you should do as a consumer. Anyone who bases their purchases entirely off advertising is setting themselves up for disappointment. Today, especially, in the age of Youtube and Let's Plays, where everyone has a blog or forum for writing and disseminating their impressions of a game, and yes, some large outlets still do that thing where they'll write full reviews for games, consumers have absolutely no excuse not to inform themselves of what a game will actually contain before choosing to purchase it. The only possible reason not to is that you're so hyped by marketing that you have to have it day one, and well, publishers should stop trying to inculcate that and people should really stop falling for it. As we're seeing, in the long run that hype cycle isn't good for anybody.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Welp, my video's done. Will touch on the "bigger fight," as the handsome Jason quite rightly called it, but I do point out that, in my humble opinion, the 2014 footage looks inferior to the 2012 footage, and the funny thing is, it makes people think the "downgraded" version looks like shit when it does, in fact, look quite decent still. It just can't compare to the effects-laden video we saw running on some optimized beast machine (not the Transformer), and therefore it's made a decent looking game look bad, when we probably would have liked its visuals had we not seen the early stuff.

Because of course, this industry has never gotten its fucking head around the idea that unchecked, excessive levels of hype is not a good bloody idea.

I'd agree with this. The huge contrast between initial footage and now is huge. Plus it's gotten progressively worse looking the more they've shown it

 

[chadskin]

MGS4 downgrade from reveal was MUCH more egregious. There were several trailers released too, each looking worse than before. I felt disappointment for sure. But I imagine people would want Kojima's head on a platter if it happened in today's apparent new world order.

Well, they took some lessons in transparency this time around: http://www.konami.jp/mgs5/gz/en/products/compare.html

 

[TyrantII]

TBH, I didn't think that 2012 reveal trailer was so mind bogglingly impressive as people seem to regard it here, and definitely not worth a soon to be 100+ page thread of outrage.

MGS4 downgrade from reveal was MUCH more egregious. There were several trailers released too, each looking worse than before. I felt disappointment for sure. But I imagine people would want Kojima's head on a platter if it happened in today's apparent new world order.

You can't do much when the hardware is revised downward from where your target was.

Kojima Productions also has a history of pushing hardware to the max, and improving upon their reveals. I think people allowed him a pass there due to the facts of the situation.

Heck, he's doing the "looking better than the reveal" again with Ground Zeros and Phantom Pain going by the media, albeit only slightly.

 

[plagiarize]

And lose out on potential sales? No, they'll BS their way through release and maybe we'll get a good post-mortem a few months afterwards.

Not explaining that trailer is definitely costing them sales.

Do you honestly think upfront technical disclosures about BF4, Ryse and CoD Ghosts hurt their sales on Xbox One?

 

[RoboPlato]

TBH, I didn't think that 2012 reveal trailer was so mind bogglingly impressive as people seem to regard it here, and definitely not worth a soon to be 100+ page thread of outrage.

MGS4 downgrade from reveal was MUCH more egregious. There were several trailers released too, each looking worse than before. I felt disappointment for sure. But I imagine people would want Kojima's head on a platter if it happened in today's apparent new world order.

The MGS4 one actually had a good reason, the PS3 as a whole got downgraded and they had to scrap a lot of their goals for the game because of it.

 

[Marcel]

i mean, I'm waiting till launch day too but I think it's ridiculous that Jason think that Ubisoft have 2 months left that they can make the game look better.

that comment he left was just crazy. Realistically, the physical copies have to be made 1 month before.

Yup, Ubisoft have to stop doing this. until then. im not buying another game from them.

Could they do something? Sure, it's at least possible with enough crunch, time, and money. Will they do something or do they have the ability? I'm with you on your doubt there.

 

[The One and Done™]

What happened?... The game looked amazing and seemed to be FULLY playable and up and running on Jimmy Fallon demo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRxkBVrJWuQ

I don't understand why it couldn't look this good anymore..even with next gen systems.

Fucking embarrassing how blatantly we were lied to. I think it went even further than the usual bullshots and bull trailers. This was a fucking bulldemo. Like really? That's what it's come to now? The backlash Ubi is getting is well deserved.

 

[vpance]

exactly. the things that wowed me in the original footage are now all gone. I can't look at it and ignore the omission, and I wouldn't likely have been bothered by those effect not being there had I never been shown them.


If he'd refused to address it, or claimed that the downgrades weren't happening, maybe we would have had 100+ pages of outrage.

Game ain't out yet. And PR will spew as PR does. Wait for the inevitable PC modded version with all the eye candy to rejoice in. Done.

 

[spannicus]

A lot of people will still buy the game

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Welp, my video's done. Will touch on the "bigger fight," as the handsome Jason quite rightly called it, but I do point out that, in my humble opinion, the 2014 footage looks inferior to the 2012 footage, and the funny thing is, it makes people think the "downgraded" version looks like shit when it does, in fact, look quite decent still. It just can't compare to the effects-laden video we saw running on some optimized beast machine (not the Transformer), and therefore it's made a decent looking game look bad, when we probably would have liked its visuals had we not seen the early stuff.

Because of course, this industry has never gotten its fucking head around the idea that unchecked, excessive levels of hype is not a good bloody idea.

I'll agree with this more than I'll agree with any of the other 'impacting' people's (media, dev) opinions. If they hadn't shown us the earlier footage with the sweet graphics this game wouldn't even be on my radar. Or on the radar of a lot of people's besides basic interest. It'd be a "look a sandbox title by Ubi, should be good I guess".

But yeah the combination with the earlier footage is just a blow to the gut.

 

[milkham]

Could they do something? Sure, it's at least possible with enough crunch, time, and money. Will they do something or do they have the ability? I'm with you on your doubt there.

they could always day one 15 gig patch

 

[Storm Chamber]

It's totally my fault for wanting a game badly and then getting lied to. I should've waited to make sure that the game I was sold on was actually the game that was advertised.

Hmmm, I sure wish there was a media outlet that would report on these things. I sure wish that I was a better informed consumer, maybe a journalist could tell me about these things to make sure I don't get screwed over.

But, rats, it seems the journalists are too busy warning people about virtual tits in games. Silly me

This reply hurt my feelings.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

A lot of people will still buy the game

Yeah. And recent studies show that the grand majority of people perceive the sky to be blue.


aka we all know this, it doesn't make what's going on any less douchey. Unless I completely missed the point you're trying to make

 

[SystemBug]

Yeah. And recent studies show that the grand majority of people perceive the sky to be blue.

people who buy the game are idiots?

 

[nomis]

At some point along with engine performance cuts, they switched the art direction to be "GTA V".

Like, what the fuck. Even if it doesn't look as good as the target, add the weather effects back in. I don't care if it's not like that in a real city, the rain and reflections (again, even if they're just cubemaps) set the tone.

 

[deranged_666]

I just think it's both comical and quite sad that when a reveal trailer or reveal game footage is shown (such as WD in 2012), the general gaming press hype up how amazing it is, how amazing it looks, how this is what will define next-gen, etc. That reveal got so many "Best of Show" awards and accolades and press, it was talked about endlessly, etc.

Now, we're a little over 2 months away from release, and about 6 weeks before the game is to go gold, and a new trailer and b-roll footage has come out, with all indications being that it's from the PS4 version, that look substantially worse than the same game that was shown in 2012 that won so many accolades and wowed so many of the gaming press, and what are we told? That this kind of stuff happens all the time, don't buy a game when it comes out, don't preorder stuff.

Like, am I the only one that just sees a major disconnect here? Why shower a game with accolades in 2012 only to tell us we should have reserved our enthusiasm? Why praise and hype a game so much in the beginning, and then tell us we're being unreasonably angry or upset when it doesn't meet the same standards everyone based their "Best of" awards and articles and blog posts on?

No member of the "gaming press" at large should be so enchanted or amazed by the gaming public's outrage over this when it was the gaming press in general that contributed so much to the initial hype of the original reveal.

 

[travisbickle]

Sorry about the quality, people upload clips labelled HD that aren't.




Police helicopter light, E3 play through 2013

Police helicopter light, March 2014

imo, the lighting has gone to pot.

 

[plagiarize]

Game ain't out yet. And PR will spew as PR does. Wait for the inevitable PC modded version with all the eye candy to rejoice in. Done.

or voice my disapproval of how Ubisoft market their games, and potentially see them make the kind of improvements that we've seen other developers and publishers making too.

I don't have to wait.

I'm very glad Microsoft were upfront on which of their first party games rendered at which resolutions. I don't see why Ubisoft can't answer a question about technical details of their game a couple of months before release.

 

[spannicus]

people who buy the game are idiots?

lol, so says the Admiral

 

[Marcel]

they could always day one 15 gig patch

Is that enough to upgrade Watch_Dogs to the two years ago version? Maybe they'll sell the improvements as part of a Watch_Dogs: Definitive Edition package? Who knows really since the developers were comically incapable of giving a straight answer about anything relevant today.

 

[Havel]

Police helicopter light, March 2014

imo, the lighting has gone to pot.

That car model...are you fucking serious Ubisoft? That's PS2 level quality.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

people who buy the game are idiots?

More along the lines of stating the obvious for the sake of stating it. We all know it's going to sell.

 

[spannicus]

More along the lines of stating the obvious for the sake of stating it. We all know it's going to sell.

Thank you for explaining the obvious to this poor soul who had no idea that people would still buy the game, bravo admiral.

 

[jschreier]

PS. Jason is doing major damage control for Ubisoft right now.

Right then, I'm off to bed but I must say it really is shameful that simply saying "I'm not going to judge this game until it's out" is interpreted by some of you folks as "damage control for Ubisoft," particularly when you know my track record, and the many things we have reported that big publishers didn't want you to know. I often defend GAF to friends and colleagues who talk about this place like it's a raging hivemind where you're instantly attacked and ostracized if you dare to disagree with the majority viewpoint. Quite disappointing to see a moderate perspective met with so much nastiness.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Glad I could help (sarcasm aside since I was being sarcastic too)


As to the topic of Ubisoft not answering in the Q&A today I recall a tweet by the creative director stating today that answers will be coming soon. So at least it seems like they did notice the backlash during the Q&A and the internet in general.

 

[plagiarize]

http://kotaku.com/for-one-day-watch-dogs-looks-terrible-970720100

Apparently it's news four months before a game is supposed to be released when a terrible looking trailer is released. Apparently they can even jump to conclusions (they say the trailer is 'what's surely the last gen version').

of course though, if we do it two months before the actual release date...

 

[GHG]

Right then, I'm off to bed but I must say it really is shameful that simply saying "I'm not going to judge this game until it's out" is interpreted by some of you folks as "damage control for Ubisoft," particularly when you know my track record, and the many things we have reported that big publishers didn't want you to know. I often defend GAF to friends and colleagues who talk about this place like it's a raging hivemind where you're instantly attacked and ostracized if you dare to disagree with the majority viewpoint. Quite disappointing to see a moderate perspective met with so much nastiness.

Dude there's no reasoning with this thread. The tone was set from the start and that's it. You have to get irate about what's going on, if not you're on Ubisofts side. And no, you're not allowed to wait until the final product before passing judgement because that's just stupid and people have to plan their pre-orders.

I'm starting to get the feeling the gaming press will get killed on here if they don't publish negative reviews about the game. Any positive reviews will get met with "haha I don't believe them, moneyhatzzzz, Ubi is paying them" esque comments. It's time to make a gaming website just to write an irrational negative review on this game in a couple of months because you're gonna get publicity and hits like no tomorrow.

 

[nasanu]

Quite disappointing to see a moderate perspective met with so much nastiness.

Disappointing? It is completely within expectations. I have long given up on expecting intelligent discourse on gaming forums.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I'm in the same boat as Jason, I'll wait to pass judgement. Making these educated guesses based off of presented media is fine and all, but in the end we won't truly know until the game is released and I see no reason to get worked up over it.

 

[demolitio]

Right then, I'm off to bed but I must say it really is shameful that simply saying "I'm not going to judge this game until it's out" is interpreted by some of you folks as "damage control for Ubisoft," particularly when you know my track record, and the many things we have reported that big publishers didn't want you to know. I often defend GAF to friends and colleagues who talk about this place like it's a raging hivemind where you're instantly attacked and ostracized if you dare to disagree with the majority viewpoint. Quite disappointing to see a moderate perspective met with so much nastiness.

You know how it goes. Hyperbole knows no bounds.

I myself will be waiting to see as well but I canceled my preorder after the delay since I was getting the usual bait and switch vibes. Then again, I only preordered it because I canceled another preorder and just put it down on another game as a placeholder and there happened to be a Watch Dogs poster right next to me...lol

The game can still be good, but to me, the graphics definitely seem to have taken a nose dive and it's not like we won't see better open world games in the future. Graphics is only one part of the equation but in this case, it was what made people tune into this game and pay attention to it since you never know how dull the gameplay is with these games anymore.

 

[Vire]

90 pages? I'm impressed GAF.

 

[Wishmaster92]

We are using Disrupt, it's in house tech built specifically for the game.

Hello Sean, i would like to know what happed with the E3 2012 demo? It looks much different than what is currently being shown of the game. These shots for example have depth and ambiance which judging by the recent trailer is lacking in the current build.

Also, why does Ubisoft seem to think that the game looks better now than how it did at the reveal?

Watch Dogs' visuals have not been scaled down since the game's reveal at E3 2012, creative director Jonathan Morin has told VideoGamer.com, claiming that if anything, they've actually improved.

"There's no scale down in quality, especially the next-gen versions," Morin said, discussing some of the negative reaction to recent trailers with us at Eurogamer Expo this afternoon. "It's pretty much the opposite. What we showed at E3 2012 in a lot of respects was less good. I think it's in the details. So no, there's no scale down."
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/watch_dogs/news/watch_dogs_graphics_have_not_been_scaled_down_since_reveal_creative_director_claims.html

How?

It's because of the lighting engine. It received a pretty big hit over the delay months and I'm still wondering why.

Edit: Just look at the difference in that search light. The 2012 version has that great beam through atmospheric fog with the focus of the beam around the radius. The trailer we got has that crap flat light that looks like it's just being painted on the ground rather than cast.

Further edit: Look at the structures bookending the bridge. The 2012 version lights on the center of each structure casts across the surface with the brightest section being towards the base (light source) and it nicely falls off along the length of it. The 2014 version is just a small light with no cast effect whatsoever. It doesn't even load in until much closer.

From Digital Foundry:

"Previous showings of Watch Dogs were conducted with the game running on high-spec PC hardware, featuring visibly better image quality and graphical effects. That's from year-old code, too."

"While overall image quality isn't quite on a par with last year's PC-based demo, Watch Dogs appears to render natively in 1080p on the PS4 using post-process anti-aliasing that has less of a softening effect on the overall image."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-watch-dogs-on-ps4-tech-analysis

I would love for Ubisoft to "Downgrade" the game to it's original e3 2012 graphical status.

 

[Saintguine]

Watch Dogs' visuals have not been scaled down since the game's reveal at E3 2012, creative director Jonathan Morin has told VideoGamer.com, claiming that if anything, they've actually improved.

"There's no scale down in quality, especially the next-gen versions," Morin said, discussing some of the negative reaction to recent trailers with us at Eurogamer Expo this afternoon. "It's pretty much the opposite. What we showed at E3 2012 in a lot of respects was less good. I think it's in the details. So no, there's no scale down."

My God, I do hope this is just PR talk and damage control because it's quite frankly embarrassing to say that with a straight face.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Right then, I'm off to bed but I must say it really is shameful that simply saying "I'm not going to judge this game until it's out" is interpreted by some of you folks as "damage control for Ubisoft," particularly when you know my track record, and the many things we have reported that big publishers didn't want you to know. I often defend GAF to friends and colleagues who talk about this place like it's a raging hivemind where you're instantly attacked and ostracized if you dare to disagree with the majority viewpoint. Quite disappointing to see a moderate perspective met with so much nastiness.

Not everybody was antagonizing you. The select few who kept responding to you sure were, but don't use that as a judgement call for everybody here. Some of us started out nasty and listened to your points, then talked with you. We didn't call you a shill or anything of the kind. It's a shame some found the need to attack you, the argument could've been constructive.