Watch_Dogs downgradeaton confirmed
- Thread starter jett
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plagiarize
Banned
and I'd presume you'd remember me from the many times we've discussed issues like this previously without having to click on the link next to my name. I'm sure you'd remember my frustration at you only ever taking the company line on stuff like this for fear of someone making a news story out of your comments. I'm sure you'd remember my frustration at your refusal to criticize any of your peers in gaming journalism since 'you have to interact with them' at various press launches and preview events.
Did you come into this thread and criticize gamers or did you come into this thread and criticize Ubisoft? Now, remember the resolution gate threads where we were voicing our frustration at news sites for continually editorializing the difference as being invisible. Did you go into those threads and criticize gamers or did you go into those threads and defend gaming journalism?
If you start taking our side once in a while here on neogaf, maybe I'll stop rolling my eyes every time you post in one of these threads.
Admiral Woofington
Member
To be fair Patricia's articles are a whole 'nother thing compared to Jason's.
To the point where I recall sites like 4chan making a 'write your own Patricia article' template. Basically it boiled down to a bunch of '[blank] game is sexist'.... which wasn't too far off from her articles.
Developing for 6 systems undoubtedly was part of it (before cutting WiiU loose). They'd be abdicating their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders if they only made this game for a current gen installation base of 10 million versus the 160+ million base on PS360.
That said, its not really the issue at hand. If they started with that Aisha Tyler trailer and worked up to what were seeing now, no harm no foul. Instead they showed us something on high end developer PC 2 years ago and said "you get to play that", and now hope foggy memory presides over your experience.
There's dolts, but it's not the developers working their tail off on this game. It's the people running the studio and Ubi. Those are decisions they made, that very well can come back and burn the whole project.
When I say "bullshit stories" I'm talking about non-stories like "video game studio puts out job listing for new video game" or "here's some more nonsense pre-order DLC whatever." I'm not talking about silly comics.
You mean like this? http://kotaku.com/yes-technical-details-are-important-in-video-games-1507704558
I dunno, if you don't think I'm being honest and transparent on here, feel free to ignore me. Simple as that.
Oh, I agree. Every time I see those gifs from the 2012 reveal, I think to myself "Dammit, Ubi, THAT'S the game I wanted to play... where the f* is it?"
Yup. Guys in the trenches don't make decisions like this. I think most of us know that, and when we say "devs", we're usually referring to the game's management.Tyrantll said:
jacksepticeye
Member
So this isn't considered a "non story" to you?
Killer Instinct on stage trash talk
Also I'm pretty sure when that story went up it alluded to it being a rape joke, but has since been edited
Not sure I agree with either of the bolded lines, actually. On one hand, publishers being more hesitant to release videos that might not be representative of the final product is not at all a bad thing, and I don't think "how will our coverage affect publisher behavior?" should be the main angle emphasized, anyway. So I disagree with Jason there.
On the other hand, though, when you're looking at the graphical quality of an entire game through such a narrow lens as a few scenes in a couple videos, it's easy to misjudge exactly the differences you're seeing. It could be a particular build, it could be tweaked graphical effects that look different but aren't necessarily worse, it could be a matter of different platforms or differences in compression, it could be different times a day or weather and so on and so forth, and yeah, it's still possible the graphics aren't finalized.
It seems very likely the graphics were downgraded from the 2013 footage we saw, and almost definite that the graphics were downgraded from the E3 2012 reveal. When you're in a position that it's difficult to really quantify that, though, or to know the full implications of two specific videos, it makes sense to hold back from reacting too dramatically. In this case, I don't think it's fair to claim Jason was speaking nonsense.
If consumer backlash leads publisher to withhold bullshot and bulldemos, I'd take that as a win as a consumer.
If it keeps them from releasing ANY media, well that will tell you right their confidence they have in their product. why would it cause them to withhold media otherwise?
I really don't see a downside.
Unless were talking about Press access, ad revenue, and relations with publishers. In that case, sorry not our problem. If the presses only way to be viable is acting as a marketing arm of publisher PR for access; then whats their point? They only serve to deliver consumers to publishers, making their readers a product being sold.
Yes, there's a balance to be had. But if the press is really that weak, they can't really call themselves journalists anymore until they find a model where they can be both independent AND profitable without relying on publishers.
It's Patricia Hernandez all her articles are about random crap or hyped up.
They claimed it was going to be the first true 'next gen" experience. One would assume they would push the consoles hard ware to its limit.
plagiarize
Banned
Editorially I have no issues with what gets posted on your website. I'm pretty sure I said as much on this page, and I no I have said as much multiple times in the past. When I see your name in one of these threads it's hilariously predictable what stance you're going to take however.
Telling gamers that they shouldn't be upset about something is something I am tired of. I'd love to hear that you contacted Ubisoft about this. I'd love to know that you didn't just take time coming here to tell us that we're wrong to care about something but that hey, we should totally read your website when you post your review. I'd love to know that you actual took time doing chasing up something which gamers want to know, and which Ubisoft have been actively dodging.
The only thing that makes me think less of Kotaku, is the stance you take on these issues here. Where is the reporting on this issue that clearly concerns gamers? I think we both know.
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Yeah look at my previous comment. Patricia is the worst offender when it comes to writing click-bait articles about topics that guarantee the wrong kind of controversy.
For me, personally, as long as they don't state otherwise, what I've seen is what I'm expecting, more or less. And while WD looked amazing at E3 2012, it didn't seem totally out of reach for the game to hit those kinds of visuals on a beefed up PC. 360/PS3 are obviously a different story.
I have never noticed or particularly cared for these downgrades that seem to happen more than I knew. In fact WD is the first one I ever noticed without having to look at detailed screenshot/video comparisons like they exist for Far Cry 3 or Forza 5.
That you don't think it's newsworthy because of your readership? That you think the bigger story here is the complaining over deceptive practices? And that your opinion is given more authority because of your readership? Popularity is not authority.
They drilled that version of the game into consumers heads for a full year. They won awards and a lot of free press showing it.
They can't do that expecting to reap the benefits without the criticism when they don't deliver. They were promising an experience and they were fine with the hype when it was positive.
LookAtMeGo
Member
The new footage looks 1000x better than last years footage.
jacksepticeye
Member
Oh I agree, Jason doesn't even write like her at all but he addressed the entire site in his post so I was just pointing out the flaws in that
If he had said "I never go after bullshit stories" then I wouldn't have said anything.
Not trying to drag her in. Just pointing out issues in what Jason is saying
plagiarize
Banned
I'll feel free to complain about it, and how about you feel free to carry on posting the kind of thing you post here on NeoGAF as you have been.
Telling me I should keep my complaints to myself, is the exactly sort of thing I'm getting fed up with the gaming press doing. We heard enough of that over Xbox One's DRM.
plumpblumpkin
Member
Good...goood.. I'm happy to see all this backlash.
Ubisoft needs to fucking learn to stop using false advertising and bullshots to sell their game. There is no reason why Watch Dogs can't look the way it did at E3. This game was basically the first "next gen" game that had people pumped..and then they go and basically make a last gen game?
Ubisoft needs to fucking learn to stop using false advertising and bullshots to sell their game. There is no reason why Watch Dogs can't look the way it did at E3. This game was basically the first "next gen" game that had people pumped..and then they go and basically make a last gen game?
Instead of being so quick to dismiss the audience that you rely on for ad revenue why not try opening up a dialogue with them? Really tired of game press telling me WHY I shouldn't care about something or why I should ignore something.
WD won awards at e3 2012 for a game that now looks like it won't be the same one it promised. What did people expect gamers to do ? Nobody wants to be bait and switched and spend their hard money on something that's less then what was made.
WD won awards at e3 2012 for a game that now looks like it won't be the same one it promised. What did people expect gamers to do ? Nobody wants to be bait and switched and spend their hard money on something that's less then what was made.
Symax
Member
I have to disagree with some guys here. This GAF meltdown is entertaining but by no means newsworthy, even for kotaku. There are no real facts. Just some first impressions from gaming enthusiasts mostly based on GIFs, JPEGs and compressed flash videos. We haven't seen the real trainwreck but rather only the possible signs of it.
I don't think I ever told anyone in this thread not to get upset about this? Get upset about whatever you'd like. I recall telling people why I wasn't particularly upset about this. I find the level of anger here fascinating.
plagiarize
Banned
If only one of the parties here was in a position to try to get the facts.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I wasn't trying to drag her into this. She's done nothing wrong recently and for the most part has kept away from the topics that made her infamous, which is great for her. I was simply pointing out that the two examples posted weren't Jason's and the site has a wide range of quality to its articles.
Why would GIFs and trailers/gameplay from side A differ so much from gifs and trailers/gameplay from B? Kotaku is a gaming blog. If anybody can post it, they're one of the closest.
The part of you that called it making a 'mountain out of a molehill' said it for you.
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
Kotaku is mostly interested in sensationalism. I mean honestly I see them trying desperately to find the most controversial point in a game that nobody cared about. Not saying they don't need to be discussed btw but this downgrade is obviously a controversial topic.
Here for example
People can disagree but I look at it as Kratos fighting a mythical being not a woman.
milkham
Member
come on man, can you get any more condescending?
Eh, I'm still somewhat interested in this game, but I'd need some real good gameplay video's. And maybe streams like inFamous just had, to convince me to get this Day 1 again. Otherwise I'll probably still get it since it's interesting enough but I would wait till after it releases and see the lay of the land.
It's more passion then anger. People tend to forget, before the delay WD has hit all the right notes. It had tremendous hype and good momentum. Then that last minute delay and radio silence...
The footage is causing so much up roar because people were really excited for this game. They feel like it was gimped or lessened even though gamers were told the delay would make it better. Ubisoft would be wise to tell gamers what they actually improved or changed during the delay. Instead we get a new trailer that takes a few to many steps back from its original reveal. Nobody wants another colonial marines on their hands.
Feel free to download the trailer here and judge for yourself: http://www.gamersyde.com/download_watch_dogs_story_trailer-31653_en.html
Codec:AVC1
Length:2 minutes 21 seconds
Format:1920 x 1080
FPS: 29.97 fps
Size: 254.93 MB
14-40 MB/s bitrate
plagiarize
Banned
Tell me as an editor that I'm wrong to read the following quotes and get the impression that you're telling us what you think we should be doing:
I'm only angry at someone from the gaming press telling me I shouldn't care about being shown misleading footage at E3, or that I shouldn't be upset that the press are ignoring an issue of much debate amongst gamers.
Maybe that isn't what you intended your words to convey, but as an editor, I think you'll see why so many people got that inference from them. I think you can see that maybe your original posts were the problem if so many people took something from them you hadn't meant to infer.
If Ubisoft release a trailer that makes their game look shit, I can say 'that looks shit'. The notion that we shouldn't judge anything from marketing... good or bad... is overly idealistic.
jacksepticeye
Member
Yeah Kotaku have some really sensationalist stuff out there and Jason saying "We avoid bullshit stories" just sounds wrong and I had to correct it
Yes he can and his boss does a good job too. Totilo acted the same way with regards to Doritosgate. "Why do you all have to be so mad, what's the big deal, this is normal" All the typical apologist shit.
Jason is doing one man wagon circle with regards to game journalism and the people who pay him. He's downplaying legitimate concerns while playing up the "nerd rage" element. It all adds up to one big eye roll. It's crazy how pretty much Jim Sterling is the only person falling on the right side of the consumer anymore.
There are so many issues so that shouldn't be too hard.
I don't quite get your notion this "OMG Watch Dogs downgraded" anger hate rage is an isolated GAF thing, Jason.
80-90% of the conversations in the Kotaku comment section are about how the graphics look downgraded compared to previous footage of the game. Even when the original story doesn't have anything to do with the graphics, people noticed and people talk about it extensively. If you disregard this as a "GAF thing", fine, you shouldn't disregard your reader's opinions though.
80-90% of the conversations in the Kotaku comment section are about how the graphics look downgraded compared to previous footage of the game. Even when the original story doesn't have anything to do with the graphics, people noticed and people talk about it extensively. If you disregard this as a "GAF thing", fine, you shouldn't disregard your reader's opinions though.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Jimquisition 2016
It's quite rude to quote me out of context, leaving out parts like "Of course, you guys can do whatever you'd like - but if you're wondering why you haven't seen many game outlets talking about this, that's one possible reason" that make it perfectly clear I'm talking about myself and the games press, not trying to tell you what to care about.
I don't mind arguments or even super-heated words on GAF, but when you willfully try to warp what I'm saying in order to fit your predetermined conclusions, then I have no interest in talking to you.
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
I second that
plagiarize
Banned
I think you should do X, but of course you can do whatever you like, is still you telling people what you think they should do. Acknowledging that your word isn't something they are beholden too doesn't change the fact that you're telling people what you think they should be doing.
You wanted to know where you said anything like that. I provided you the quotes. Again, maybe that so many people took something from your posts that you didn't mean is, just maybe, because of what you wrote.
But sure, lets not talk about what you said, and lets accuse me of being rude so we don't have to.
Admiral Woofington
Member
At this point we shouldn't focus the blame on Jason. Let's remember who the real culprit of our disappointment is.
That bridge
Barbacoatl
Banned
Bullshit stories? Kotaku? They practically invented Princess Peach cakes, don't try to tarnish their legacy.
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