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You don't really need them anymore as the darkness has been toned down across the board in the game.

Other than a few areas From toned down the reliance on the torch as dynamic lighting causes performance issues.

There are screenshots of that area with a torch from the retail version.

So in the version to the left, it would be pitch black if you went down there without using a torch?

 

[Grief.exe]

There's no rest of the evidence. You're just in denial. The proof is RIGHT THERE.

As per the screens I posted (and you could look up footage of those areas) in what world is the TGS demo more similar to the retail game than the PC reveal to the TGS demo?

What are you talking about?

The PC reveal in April is completely different than anything else we have seen. The textures/geometry in every area are completely different than what ended up in the console release. Making any comparison to the retail release or TGS demo is completely arbitrary and, ultimately, irrelevant.

The retail release and the TGS Demo/Trailer are quite similar to the retail console version. I concede there are a few minor differences, but the shear amount of evidence outweighs the missing door or minor texture swaps.

I will go down picture by picture. I've downsampled the footage to 720p so the page doesn't become impossible to load.

Picture 1

• Same geometry/textures as the console release.
• Darker lighting.
• Looks like much higher-resolution textures and possibly more emphasis on the normal maps than the console version (speculative).
• Specular Highlights and Normal Maps less pronounced than the demo version, different geometry textures as well. Supports the theory that the demo build was a completely separate vertical slice from the actual game.

Picture 2

• Love the atmosphere created by the darkness and through the use of the torch.
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 3

• This trailer really shows off the particle effects. Are they this impressive in the console version?
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 4

• Where is the aliasing? I didn't notice any in the entire trailer.
• Specular highlights on the blade (probably in the console version as well).
• Now that is the level of detail in Dark Souls that I have come to expect.

Picture 5

• Gorgeous.
• In the console release, the lighting in this area is more toned down and almost has a green hue.
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 6

• Two pictures here.
• More particle effects.
• Fog effect is completely different from the console version.

So in the version to the left, it would be pitch black if you went down there without using a torch?

Yes.

 

[mnannola]

The game already studders without the lighting previously implemented. It was obviously a cut made for the sake of performance. Still a great, great game. It's hilarious that people expected a graphical showcase pit of FROM of all developers. Crytek, EAD, Retro, Naughty dog, Capcom yeah I would be a bit miffed, but FROM is about as mid tier as it gets, come on.

People just expected what was shown, why is this so hard to understand? If a company says here is what our game looks like, that is what is expected. No more, no less.

 

[Valkerionseven]

The game already studders without the lighting previously implemented. It was obviously a cut made for the sake of performance. Still a great, great game. It's hilarious that people expected a graphical showcase pit of FROM of all developers. Crytek, EAD, Retro, Naughty dog, Capcom yeah I would be a bit miffed, but FROM is about as mid tier as it gets, come on.

I agree with this enough, they just now hit "mid tier" if we even want to call them that with the success of Dark Souls. Their games have never been great showcases of graphics or preformance, hell have they ever made a stable game? I ask that as someone who played basically every armored core as well.

That said, there is some validity to what people are mad about. The game was showed for almost a year and a half looking great then suddenly it was the same level as the previous game without warning.

Great game, fun game, loving my time with it, would be lying if I said it would be disappointing if there is not a "Definitive PS4/One/PC looking like the demos" version.

 

[razgriz417]

The GB crew and Dave Lang had a bit of a discussion on this during the latest Bombcast and their understanding that no dev team would willing try to deceive their audience because trying to motivate a group of people to work on something that they know will be deceptive is hard to do. Their conclusion was that the dev team was most likely unable to keep their new lighting tech in while trying to maintain the frame rate. While its a bummer to see the lighting not look as good in the main game, I'm still giving From the benefit of the doubt that they just couldn't get it in the retail release and were not trying to be deceptive

 

[Pyramid head]

Just wondering, why isnt a torch being used in the comparison to the right? That would seem to be a more accurate comparison.

Why waste your left hand weapon slot when the passage is now bright enough to see without a torch?

 

[Vizzeh]

Dumb question. I guess: which is retail?

I would actually guess that the top screen is showing lighting at night and the bottom one is showing it during an foggy/overcast early day.

The top image, the better version, It was in the infamous thread, bottom was an early build, so improvements were made at retail, not a retail downgrade if the original poster was trying to make that point

 

[zephervack]

If I had to hazard an educated guess, the PC version will most likely have the better geometry and lighting as previously shown by FROM.

Here are my reasons for thinking so:

1. Clearly the PS3 and X360 versions are downgraded from what was shown, no one can deny that, so at one point they did (do?) have a superior version of the game
2. FROM has stated from day one that PC was the primary development platform for DS2
3. Their new engine for DS2 was designed to take advantage of next gen hardware. PS3 and X360 are not next gen hardware, but PC and the upcoming PS4 / X1 versions are
4. If they put all of that work into a superior version of DS2 but then had to create a downgraded version too, I don't think they would simply throw away / abandon the better version. Especially when soon to be released versions on better hardware could run said better version.
5. The recent statement from FROM is super vague, why would they be coy about this? Maybe they simply don't want to make all of the early adopters feel used by saying the truth: "Yeah, it looks worse, but thats because we had to downgrade the game for the PS3/X360 due to last gen hardware not being up to snuff. Our engine is next gen though, and yeah the videos were of the versions for PC / PS4 / X1 so you will all be able to buy the better version of the game soon!"


We will know for sure on April 25th, one way or another.

God I hope so, but something tells me they stopped working on the PC build eons ago when they started optimizing for consoles.

And what will most likely happen is that they will grab the Xbox 360 build and make it playable on a PC.

And I wouldnt even be surprised if they started work on the PC version as soon as the Xbox 360 went gold, which was probably a month or 2 ago.

 

[JRW]

How is the framerate? I think I would actually prefer some graphical rough edges if the game didn't drop into the teens in certain areas.

I'm playing 360 version and it runs really good so far (15'ish hours in)

The screen tearing is much less intrusive than I thought it would be, it's worse when seeing it on 30fps capped YouTube / Captured video vs. in person with uncapped framerate.

 

[Grief.exe]

The GB crew and Dave Lang had a bit of a discussion on this during the latest Bombcast and their understanding that no dev team would willing try to deceive their audience because trying to motivate a group of people to work on something that they know will be deceptive is hard to do. Their conclusion was that the dev team was most likely unable to keep their new lighting tech in while trying to maintain the frame rate. While its a bummer to see the lighting not look as good in the main game, I'm still giving From the benefit of the doubt that they just couldn't get it in the retail release and were not trying to be deceptive

I would agree with that, but will these features make an appearance in the PC version? That is the real question here.

 

[Septimius]

The GB crew and Dave Lang had a bit of a discussion on this during the latest Bombcast and their understanding that no dev team would willing try to deceive their audience because trying to motivate a group of people to work on something that they know will be deceptive is hard to do. Their conclusion was that the dev team was most likely unable to keep their new lighting tech in while trying to maintain the frame rate. While its a bummer to see the lighting not look as good in the main game, I'm still giving From the benefit of the doubt that they just couldn't get it in the retail release and were not trying to be deceptive

Then they need to communicate with their customers to uphold good customer relations. Going "oh, yeah. Whatever" in response to what's going on isn't really nice, despite how it happened. Most people say they FEEL deceived, not that they think FROM had malicious intent.

 

[DrROBschiz]

God I hope so, but something tells me they stopped working on the PC build eons ago when they started optimizing for consoles.

And what will most likely happen is that they will grab the Xbox 360 build and make it playable on a PC.

And I wouldnt even be surprised if they started work on the PC version as soon as the Xbox 360 went gold, which was probably a month or 2 ago.

I dunno man

Based on the April/TGS/E3 builds it really seems like PC came first and is the prettiest

I dont think we actually saw any true console footage until the network test

 

[Yoda]

Cancelled my pre-order on steam, if all we're getting is better textures that doesn't warrant the $49.99 price tag.

 

[Vizzeh]

Cancelled my pre-order on steam, if all we're getting is better textures that doesn't warrant the $49.99 price tag.

isn't that 10$ less for a better version? or do you already own a PS3 version.

 

[Clear]

There's no rest of the evidence. You're just in denial. The proof is RIGHT THERE.

You have no idea what a vertical slice is, what its purpose is, and when it would stop being maintained as part of the code-base. You are just spreading disinformation through your ignorance. Please, stop it.

 

[razgriz417]

I would agree with that, but will these features make an appearance in the PC version? That is the real question here.

Yeah I'm hoping so too, I'm still holding out on the PC version and hope the lighting engine stays

Then they need to communicate with their customers to uphold good customer relations. Going "oh, yeah. Whatever" in response to what's going on isn't really nice, despite how it happened. Most people say they FEEL deceived, not that they think FROM had malicious intent.

Ah I see, yeah I've not followed this all that much since I'm waiting on the PC version and don't want to get spoiled. But yeah if that's the case I'd agree that they should have handled their explanation better

 

[Deadstar]

Cancelled my pre-order on steam, if all we're getting is better textures that doesn't warrant the $49.99 price tag.

It really does in my opinion. DS2 is so far a great game. Though I do hope the lighting looks amazing in the pc version. It would be amateur to create the game on a "next gen" engine and not have it look next gen on pc.

 

[Grief.exe]

God I hope so, but something tells me they stopped working on the PC build eons ago when they started optimizing for consoles.

And what will most likely happen is that they will grab the Xbox 360 build and make it playable on a PC.

And I wouldnt even be surprised if they started work on the PC version as soon as the Xbox 360 went gold, which was probably a month or 2 ago.

If you look at the evidence presented, From wasn't lying when they said that the PC version was the lead platform and the engine was designed for PC/next-gen.
It would seem that the previous-gen consoles are just an afterthought. That would line up with business-sense, as any investment in last-gen compatibility will be a throwaway investment going forward.

From just needs the extra ~6 weeks to finalize the lighting and features that were cut last-minute from those versions. Again, with business motivation, would work play in Bandai's favor to maximize profit potential as well.

 

[nbthedude]

I've been following the game before and after release. I bought it after release knowing about all the issues discussed in the OT and I am happy with my purchase.

Don't be a dick just because other people are frustrated by a company not being transparent.

My language may be someone incendiary but not nearly as much as those calling people who don't get the outrage idiots, mindless fanboys, or calling Namco "Scamco" or talking about From's game as corporate sodomy. That kind of language is clearly 'being a dick" as far as I'm concerned.

The rhetoric just doesn't match the reality here. People had the ability to educate themselves about the version of the game. There is also, as far as I can tell, no clear evidence that Namco ever said "hey here is what the near final/final version of the game looks like" that misrepresented the game. Instead there are a bunch of videos from various development builds from unspecified platform versions that people ASSUME were the console versions but then accuse Namco/From of all kinds of bullshit based on their assumptions and/or these videos lack of clarity. At the worst, what seems to have happened is a lack of clearly labeling the source of various videos, which is something that the vast majority of videogames footage fails to do. So I'm still not sure what the complaint is.

 

[marrec]

Just wondering, why isnt a torch being used in the comparison to the right? That would seem to be a more accurate comparison.

Because if a torch were used it would look pretty much the same, as has been shown time and time again.

 

[zephervack]

I dunno man

Based on the April/TGS/E3 builds it really seems like PC came first and is the prettiest

I dont think we actually saw any true console footage until the network test

So here is my theory...

You are saying that the April/TGS/E3 build was the PC build and its the prettiest... I agree with you with one caveat, something tells me that the 2 areas on those builds are the only ones that exist with that detail, and were meant for demos only.

The rest of the game was only ever worked on for consoles and there doesnt exist a prettier version of them.

So thats why I think the PC version will just be the current 360 version with PC sliders (resolution, AF, AA).

I Hope im wrong of course but knowing how versioning works in software, its most likely what happened.

If you look at the evidence presented, From wasn't lying when they said that the PC version was the lead platform and the engine was designed for PC/next-gen.
It would seem that the previous-gen consoles are just an afterthought. That would line up with business-sense, as any investment in last-gen compatibility will be a throwaway investment going forward.

From just needs the extra ~6 weeks to finalize the lighting and features that were cut last-minute from those versions. Again, with business motivation, would work play in Bandai's favor to maximize profit potential as well.

I hope you are right, but knowing that we havent seen ANY of the other areas with the same amount of detail as the reveal/TGS demos, is worrying.

 

[Celegus]

Still the best game since Dark Souls I. I don't see why they would intentionally hamstring their own game without a good reason.

 

[mclem]

I would agree with that, but will these features make an appearance in the PC version? That is the real question here.

I suspect the key question is whether the removal was solely for framerate reasons or if the gameplay impact the feature had was a factor as well.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

What are you talking about?

The PC reveal in April is completely different than anything else we have seen. The textures/geometry in every area are completely different than what ended up in the console release. Making any comparison to the retail release or TGS demo is completely arbitrary and, ultimately, irrelevant.

The retail release and the TGS Demo/Trailer are quite similar to the retail console version. I concede there are a few minor differences, but the shear amount of evidence outweighs the missing door or minor texture swaps.

I will go down picture by picture. I've downsampled the footage to 720p so the page doesn't become impossible to load.

Picture 1

• Same geometry/textures as the console release.
• Darker lighting.
• Looks like much higher-resolution textures and possibly more emphasis on the normal maps than the console version (speculative).
• Specular Highlights and Normal Maps less pronounced than the demo version, different geometry textures as well. Supports the theory that the demo build was a completely separate vertical slice from the actual game.

Picture 2

• Love the atmosphere created by the darkness and through the use of the torch.
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 3

• This trailer really shows off the particle effects. Are they this impressive in the console version?
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 4

• Where is the aliasing? I didn't notice any in the entire trailer.
• Specular highlights on the blade (probably in the console version as well).
• Now that is the level of detail in Dark Souls that I have come to expect.

Picture 5

• Gorgeous.
• In the console release, the lighting in this area is more toned down and almost has a green hue.
• Same geometry/textures as the console release.

Picture 6

• Two pictures here.
• More particle effects.
• Fog effect is completely different from the console version.

http://i.minus.com/idQf74JSP5NiF.jpg



Yes.

You just keep repeating the same things. No, the TGS demo and the retail game DON'T HAVE THE SAME GEOMETRY AND TEXTURES:

PC April reveal:

TGS:

Retail:

Yes, PC is totally different than the TGS demo and the retail game...

We also know that the enemy layout is very different in the TGS demo compared to the retail game.

Are you saying the PC version has a different enemy layout that the console one? Please.

 

[DrROBschiz]

So here is my theory...

You are saying that the April/TGS/E3 build was the PC build and its the prettiest... I agree with you with one caveat, something tells me that the 2 areas on those builds are the only ones that exist with that detail, and were meant for demos only.

The rest of the game was only ever worked on for consoles and there doesnt exist a prettier version of them.

So thats why I think the PC version will just be the current 360 version with PC sliders (resolution, AF, AA).

I Hope im wrong of course but knowing how versioning works in software, its most likely what happened.

Geez I hope so! April 25th is going to be nuts.

 

[george_us]

From have us a third, fantastic Souls game. They don't owe "gamers" anything else.

I don't mind the rest of your post but this right here is corporate apologist horseshit. "Gamers" pay their bills. They sure as hell do owe us more for "gamers" giving them their hard earned money.

 

[nbthedude]

Then they need to communicate with their customers to uphold good customer relations. Going "oh, yeah. Whatever" in response to what's going on isn't really nice, despite how it happened. Most people say they FEEL deceived, not that they think FROM had malicious intent.

I'm not sure about that. I would say about half the people seem to not care. Another quarter are bummed it doesn't look better. Then maybe 10 percent are full on "corporations are trying to fuck us" populist rage bullshit.

The number of people that sincerely care about the issue but aren't outright charging From of deceit and think there is more ambiguity are a tiny minority it seems, if the recent threads comments are anything to go by.

 

[M°°nblade]

I'm playing 360 version and it runs really good so far (15'ish hours in)

The screen tearing is much less intrusive than I thought it would be, it's worse when seeing it on 30fps capped YouTube / Captured video vs. in person with uncapped framerate.

Can you tell if the game is native 720p or subHD?

It's really weird how this franchise goes downhill graphically.
Demon's souls ran at a higher resolution than Dark souls and didn't have blighttown level framerate problems.

Just like GTAV, I'll be sitting this one out for a year, hoping they'll announce a 'definitive' PS4 version by then.

 

[zephervack]

Geez I hope so! April 25th is going to be nuts.

Yeah the 25th is going to be nuts, it helps that it will be a Friday, I might take the day off to post comparisons and play the game of course.

 

[JRW]

Such a skewed comparison being he's not carrying a torch on the retail side, I just went through this area on 360 version with Torch in hand and they look the same

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

Such a skewed comparison being he's not carrying a torch on the retail side, I just went through this area on 360 version with Torch in hand and they look the same

Lighting isn't being compared in those GIFs, geometry and level layout is. It's clear as day they're not the same.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Such a skewed comparison being he's not carrying a torch on the retail side, I just went through this area on 360 version with Torch in hand and they look the same

Yeah true

Though in all the videos with the Mirror Knight TGS demo it clearly looks way better than the console version

I really hope it still looks that good.

 

[Grief.exe]

You just keep repeating the same things. No, the TGS demo and the retail game DON'T HAVE THE SAME GEOMETRY AND TEXTURES:

We are going in circles man

• You keep bringing up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I keep presenting you with counterarguments while conceding that there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I present the same counter-arguments and overwhelming similarities, while conceding there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap in one room and the addition of a door.
• I make this post to hopefully end this cycle.

I have no idea why you continually bring these up as they are minor at best and in the case of the door, very simple to discount entirely.

Such a skewed comparison being he's not carrying a torch on the retail side, I just went through this area on 360 version with Torch in hand and they look the same

Not comparing the use of the torch.

Showing the similarities in textures/geometry between Version at TGS and the retail
Demonstrating that the torch is not necessary in retail.

 

[DrROBschiz]

We are going in circles man

• You keep bringing up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I keep presenting you with counterarguments concede that there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I present the same counter-arguments and overwhelming similarities, while conceding there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap in one room and the addition of a door.
• I make this post to hopefully end this cycle.

Pretty sure Grief is the only one with a clear picture of whats going on here

Either way I am thoroughly convinced that we have been shown the PC version all the way up until the Network Test.

The point of contention is whether these builds were pawned off as anything but the PC version up until we saw the difference in quality from the Network Test and 2014 Previews

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

We are going in circles man

• You keep bringing up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I keep presenting you with counterarguments concede that there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap and the door change.
• I present the same counter-arguments and overwhelming similarities, while conceding there are minimal changes.
• You continue to bring up the texture/geometry swap in one room and the addition of a door.
• I make this post to hopefully end this cycle.

1) You say that geometry is the same, I prove it's not.
2) You don't present counterarguments, just repeat the old ones and ignore evidence against them.
3) Which shows that retail and TGS level layout and geometry are not the same, as you claimed.
4) The salamander pit is HARDLY a minimal change between the TGS and retail versions. It is minimal between the PC and TGS demos but you claim the opposite.
5) You haven't provided any comparison that shows that TGS and retail layout and geometry are the same. I however, proved the opposite with evidence.

 

[Garcia]

I think the PC version will just be the current 360 version with PC sliders (resolution, AF, AA).

Yeah, seems to be. Their response didn't surprise me but man, chances are the PC version won't be any different.

 

[JRW]

Not comparing the use of the torch.

Showing the similarities in textures/geometry between Version at TGS and the retail
Demonstrating that the torch is not necessary in retail.

I see, That was my first impression based on what I saw but the images are a bit small for comparing the other things you mention (other than the lack of darkness on retail side).

 

[JRW]

Can you tell if the game is native 720p or subHD?

It's really weird how this franchise goes downhill graphically.
Demon's souls ran at a higher resolution than Dark souls and didn't have blighttown level framerate problems.

Just like GTAV, I'll be sitting this one out for a year, hoping they'll announce a 'definitive' PS4 version by then.

According to eurogamer's comparison both PS3/360 version run at native 720P.

 

[test_account]

Yes.

I see, then i understand the comparison

Why waste your left hand weapon slot when the passage is now bright enough to see without a torch?

I didnt know that the comparison to the left would be a pitch black area if a torch wasnt used.

Because if a torch were used it would look pretty much the same, as has been shown time and time again.

Yeah, that is most likely true, but it seems that the comparison to the left would be pitch black if a torch wasnt used. I didnt know that, so it kinda looked weird to me why a torch was used in one example, but not in the other.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Gut feeling is none of the textures or spectacular lighting we saw early on will be in the PC release, just because I think somebody would've said something about it by now. 1080p/60fps and steamworks is good enough for me.

 

[NinjaCatfish]

I really can't believe this has been such a long and ongoing issue amongst so many GAFfers. The game is incredibly enjoyable to play. No, the lighting is not as impressive as it was during a demo, but I don't feel like I have been CHEATED or LIED TO or any other such crime.
Dark Souls 2 presents an incredible connected world, improved combat and online features and more incredible Dark Souls to explore and enjoy.

Had they not showed the E3 demo with different lighting, we would not even be having this conversation and I suspect most of us would just be enjoying the game for what it is instead of complaining about what it isn't.

 

[EatinOlives]

If the PC version doesn't have those extra effects then this goes from insta-buy to sub-10 bucks sale for me.

Disgraceful business practise.

This. I was so, so hyped for DS2 but this active deception is deplorable and I will not support it.

Alpha-build screenshots are still up on Steam. If the game doesn't look like that on release it's pure bait and switch no matter how they want to spin it.

I really can't believe this has been such a long and ongoing issue amongst so many GAFfers. The game is incredibly enjoyable to play. No, the lighting is not as impressive as it was during a demo, but I don't feel like I have been CHEATED or LIED TO or any other such crime.
Dark Souls 2 presents an incredible connected world, improved combat and online features and more incredible Dark Souls to explore and enjoy.

Had they not showed the E3 demo with different lighting, we would not even be having this conversation and I suspect most of us would just be enjoying the game for what it is instead of complaining about what it isn't.

I doubt this would be your tune if this were a Ubisoft, Activision, or EA game.

"But it's enjoyable!" doesn't excuse them still using obviously outdated builds just because they looked much better, and it doesn't excuse them staying quiet until today, and it doesn't excuse that their response is "yeah well, fuck you".

Yes you're right. Had they not shown a much better looking game before we wouldn't be pissed that the game we're getting now looks worse in nearly every way. How does that invalidate the complaints?

 

[SargerusBR]

You have no idea what a vertical slice is, what its purpose is, and when it would stop being maintained as part of the code-base. You are just spreading disinformation through your ignorance. Please, stop it.

Don't mind him, he thinks Kameo from 2005 is better looking than Dark Souls II :lol

 

[Grief.exe]

Pretty sure Grief is the only one with a clear picture of whats going on here

Either way I am thoroughly convinced that we have been shown the PC version all the way up until the Network Test.

The point of contention is whether these builds were pawned off as anything but the PC version up until we saw the difference in quality from the Network Test and 2014 Previews

Hope for the best, but expect the worst seems to be the best way to go about this.

Based on the evidence that I have presented, including the PC trailer having overwhelming similarities to the retail console version, and the various fiscal benefits for Bandai, screenshots on the Steam page showing the same textures/geometry but different lighting to the console version, and the extra 6 weeks to finalize the effects while maximizing potential revenue.

Even with all that, the game could be just the 360/PS3 version with increased resolution and frame rate.

1) You say that geometry is the same, I prove it's not.
2) You don't present counterarguments, just repeat the old ones and ignore evidence against them.
3) Which shows that retail and TGS level layout and geometry are not the same, as you claimed.
4) The salamander pit is HARDLY a minimal change between the TGS and retail versions. It is minimal between the PC and TGS demos but you claim the opposite.
5) You haven't provided any comparison that shows that TGS and retail layout and geometry are the same. I however, proved the opposite with evidence.

The fact of the matter is I have argued against or conceded these points with every response I have made to this matter.
The reality is I have spent way too much time making, ultimately, arbitrary arguments on very minor changes. How about we agree to disagree? Just go about the discussion, and I will continue conceding some minor changes.

Excerpts from every single time I have responded to you:

Were you not there yesterday when we had this discussion?

You are citing the addition of a door and minimal texture/geometry swaps in one area as the basis for your argument again. As we discussed yesterday it is not a good place to base an argument in lite of:

• Overwhelming similarities between the PC trailer and console release in both textures and geometry.
• Doors are actually quite difficult to get into a game, between the various animations and other considerations that have to be taken, it can be one of the last things finalized. Alternative: that door may be now used to gate progression of that area in the release, do not want that in a demo build.
• Couple of texture swaps in one room does not overwhelm the rest of the evidence already displayed. The vast majority of textures/geometry are the same.

The retail release and the TGS Demo/Trailer are quite similar to the retail console version. I concede there are a few minor differences, but the shear amount of evidence outweighs the missing door or minor texture swaps.

Again, minor changes, nothing major there.
For example, the door is likely attributed to the animation and other necessities not being completed at that point in development. You would be surprised how difficult something like a door is to get correct. I actually listened to a lecture by Obsidian on the various mechanics; opening the door, going through the door, NPCs reacting to the various states correctly, etc.

EDIT: Note that UnrealEck also describes that door as locked in the retail game. It is possible they removed the door as the particular systems for locking/unlocking didn't exist yet, the key wasn't placed at that time, and/or that system of progression is not conducive for a demo build.

Don't mind him, he thinks Kameo from 2005 is better looking than Dark Souls II :lol

No need for straw men gentlemen.

 

[Mengy]

Such a skewed comparison being he's not carrying a torch on the retail side, I just went through this area on 360 version with Torch in hand and they look the same

In the left version you need a torch in order to see anything due to dynamic light sources. In the right you don't because the entire game has been brightened up, torches aren't even required in the release version.

But you are missing the large differences in geometry and textures.

 

[Cetra]

I don't mind the rest of your post but this right here is corporate apologist horseshit. "Gamers" pay their bills. They sure as hell do owe us more for "gamers" giving them their hard earned money.

No game developer is a public servant. The game they produced is a fantastic game; with some technical issues. You can choose to buy or not. Nothing is "owed" to anyone. They people working on this game have been paid during the development cycle. We don't pay them. Game Developers are not government workers. We don't elect people into Game Studio positions, they aren't paid with tax money.

Am I disappointed that the game doesn't look as amazing as the very first gameplay reveal? Yeah, a little. But the fact that it's a fantastic gameplay experience helps me to not dwell on that and go hollow over it. But it's par the fucking course in this industry.

It's not corporate apologist bullshit, as you put it. It's called being reasonable.

 

[DrROBschiz]

In the left version you need a torch in order to see anything due to dynamic light sources. In the right you don't because the entire game has been brightened up, torches aren't even required in the release version.

But you are missing the large differences in geometry and textures.

Could you guys be specific because geometry and textures looks the same to me.

Could the differences not be attributed to the lighting/resolution?

 

[Mlatador]

Had they not showed the E3 demo with different lighting, we would not even be having this conversation and I suspect most of us would just be enjoying the game for what it is instead of complaining about what it isn't.

That's the whole point. Publishers should stop lying to their customers through fake trailers/presentations/misleading previews.

I hope this year's E3 people are especially careful and willing to call out fake shit they see during previews/presentations.

 

[Ceadeus]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/from...-souls-ii-graphics-downgrade-concerns/0129831

So just about the most non-committal answer we'll hear from them for a while.

We can't complain, Those systems are old, they did their best

I'd rather play à downgraded game Than to play at 20fps...

 

[Grief.exe]

Could you guys be specific because geometry and textures looks the same to me.

Could the differences not be attributed to the lighting/resolution?

The only two differences are the addition of the door (same doorway texture and geometry though) and the 'rail' flanking the stairs on the ground. The actual stair texture looks the exact same though.