Of PC gamers though?
DirectX 12 GDC 2014 presentation: Low-Level Access, DX11 GPUs, Holiday 2015
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Of PC gamers though?
silver.tongue
Member
Is this a parody or not? I really can't tell anymore... =(
dragonelite
Member
Hope so at least the early access date and if its available for everybody.
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
I honestly believe the guy is a troll and is just spouting nonsense on purpose. The sad part is with all the attention he gets his troll is successful.
TheRealTalker
Banned
dang I forgot about this
need to read up but if anyone could give me a summary it will be highly appreciated
need to read up but if anyone could give me a summary it will be highly appreciated
Firstly, I don't own a single physical Xbox One game. All my purchases have been digital... from a store MS has complete control over. A £50 copy of Forza 5 from me, is £50 to MS.
Secondly, Microsoft has published games on the PC in the past. The audience for them isn't quite as large as you may assume.
Thirdly, the Xbox One isn't subsidized.
Fourthly, I didn't mention someone purchasing a PC as a result. I mentioned people that ALREADY have a PC, but purchase the console due to the games not being available on PC. A game sold to me on either platform equals a single sale, however a game sold to me on the console cost me more, causes me to pay an ongoing subscription, and causes and other third-party games I buy on the platform to still generate revenue for them.
So yes, I feel that me as a customer today, is more valuable than me as a customer in a reality where every MS published release is also on PC. This isn't to say that I wouldn't prefer that to be the case.. but I can definitely see why it makes less business sense.
Chobel
Member
It's parody.
vxXJordanXxv
Banned
I have photoshop open right now making this into reality.
VisceralBowl
Member
Major CPU performance increases on PC via fixed threading and changed datastructures.
Much lower level access for GPUs on PC.
Works on PC, Xbox One, and select Windows mobile devices (though presumably most all of them that will be around by its release date).
On mobile the focus is much more improving battery life than running performance much higher.
Precisely.
dragonelite
Member
Mantle but then for every card.
Expect first games to appear holiday 2015.
Early access this year.
Easier to port games from pc,x1 and mobile devices.
Something something x1 secret gpu.
last one was a joke
dgrdsv
Member
These "discussions about reducing resource overhead" started way back with DX10. Says exactly zero about when MS decided to make DX12. But if you think about it you'd understand that if MS was planning to make DX12 with the features announced at least a year ago - AMD wouldn't spend their money on Mantle at all. Thus it really is this simple: there were no firm DX12 plans up until Mantle announcement. Only "discussions". This is further confirmed by a holiday 15 planned release date which is waaaaaay off for an API being 4 years in the making and kinda proves that they've started building it last year at best.
NVIDIA's having a working D3D12 drivers already also says a lot about who was the main pusher of DX12 on h/w side of things.
The next Call of Duty is to be presented in some form @ GDC...
Rumor has it that the game looks much better than all previous iterations including COD: Ghosts.
Not sure if that could be it?
Ol No Bones
Banned
Thank you. No need to drag him into perfectly good threads it only helps in his delusions.
At Game Developers Conference, Microsoft detailed DirectX 12. Promising a "console-like API," the key feature of DirectX 12 is Direct3D 12, which Microsoft's Anuj Gosalia jokingly described as "more Direct than ever." As expected, it will run across "all Microsoft platforms," including "the lowest of smartphones, to game consoles, to the highest-end graphics cards."
Direct3D 12 will allow developers to "fully exploit the GPU." As a result of the update, Gosalia promises that Xbox One games will see "increased performance."
In a 3DMark demo, performance increased significantly simply by moving to D3D12 code, with no optimization. With D3D12, multi-threading is more scalable, with asynchronous command list submissions and "near-perfect scaling" across CPU cores. In the demo shown during the presentation, a jungle scene was rendered in 3D, with resources almost evenly divided across the four CPU cores.
D312 is a "lower-level API," which will allow "console-like development." Turn 10 Studios' Chris Tector took the stage to talk about porting Forza 5 to DX11, but there was too much CPU overhead. However, porting the game to D3D12 made it possible. It took a 4 man-month effort to port the rendering engine from Xbox One D3D11.X to D3D12.
The Forza 5 rendering demo showed a P12 driving around, hitting a very steady 60fps. "We're very excited to see console-style development on PC through D3D12, and we're especially excited to see these features come back to Xbox One," Tector said. Unfortunately, no PC port of Forza 5 was announced.
On day one, all Nvidia DirectX 11 hardware will support DirectX 12. "We've already delivered DirectX 12 drivers to developers already," Nvidia's Tony Tamasi announced at the panel.
For mobile, DirectX 12 offers a number of benefits. "We have a lot of cores as well," Qualcomm's Eric Demers pointed out. He says that DX12 will offer "improved power efficiency," with more efficient use of multicore CPUs with the new D3D12 runtime. "We're excited about seeing Xbox and PC titles moving to the mobile platform," Demers added, saying that a unified runtime will ease ports.
Gosalia says that by release, about 50% of gaming PCs should be able to run DirectX 12, joking that "100 percent of Xbox Ones" will support the API. DX12 is targeting "Holiday 2015," however early access preview releases will be available later this year.
However, what OSes will DX12 land on? "We understand your desire to get DirectX on the broadest amount of platforms," Gosalia said, but he refused to say anything specific regarding Windows 7. He did confirm Windows XP won't be supported after a joking question from the audience. "You'll be hearing more from us soon," he said.
From Shacknews.com
I always envision it as a Saturday morning cartoon.
Impeccable
Member
Why does no one ever PM with earth shattering news and leaks?
MutonCommander
Banned
So, basically, gg Mantle?
I don't really understand the point of putting a Forza 5 demo on the PC. It ran on a PC when it was unveiled at E3 2013 and it had better graphics than the final Xbone release. A modern GPU, even with DX11.2, should run rings around the Xbone version of the game. What do they think they're 'proving' by showing it now?
Chobel
Member
Where did you read this?
Maybe it would be worth them making the effort in that case. Though, I don't think the comparison with Valve means much, as Valve needs to entice the user base to move onto its platform, so offering a better environment makes sense. For MS, this would be more along the lines of trying to move those users to Win8/9, so it may not be worth putting in the same amount of effort to offer the benefits to those who are already running XP.
anexanhume
Member
Also much more efficient GPU scheduling and memory (also fine-grain direct) allocation.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Intersting DX11 gpus are supported. I stopped following DX development once I stopped reading maximum pc, but I remember the transition to dx9 came with all sorts of insane new hardware. Did DX10 and 11 require hardware or were they backwards compatible as well.
I haven't thought DX in years.
I haven't thought DX in years.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I'm really struggling to see the point of this demo. Forza 5 was already running (better) on PC's long before the Xbox One released. Did they mention the PC specs, and it running on a spec comparable to the console? If not, then of course it runs.. even with inefficiencies, the PC has enough brute force to easily match and surpass the console version.
Yes, but that is not bad. Called parts of this situation playing right out.
MS nor Nvidia were willing to let amd have mantle un to themselves. The fact MS has announced this as a direct move is good for all players. MS is the biggest and can get the most support if DX is just gonna take things people like me have been asking for since 3dfx left the scene can't complain.
Consumers/Developers benefit from this whole situation as a whole in a variety of different aspects of the industry.
Microsoft takes it time but this easily could be another big shift like DX 8 or 9 were. bout damn time but it's here and gamers can finally have something very few have experienced.
VisceralBowl
Member
Some Nvidia card
I expect Mantle to still pull ahead in performance in some regards, but a vendor neutral solution in DirectX (or OpenGL) would be much preferable. Mantle always had the potential to be damaging for the industry no matter how much AMD told us NVIDIA and Intel (and others) could get in on it.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
I am fine with upgrading my GPU to run a new Direct X. What I do not like is having to change operation systems. Changing a part is just opening the computer, taking one out and plugging the new GPU in. Changing the operating system is wiping your drives, installing the new OS, installing drivers and then getting games back on the machine.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
For some reason, I'm torn between DirectX 12.
One reason I hate is because it makes sure that most or all PC games for the future will still be tied to a MS operating system, specifically Win 8 and 9. Basically screwing Linux and spitting in the face of something like the Steam Boxes.
One reason I love it is that it really does open up and allow for better ports, better graphics and so on.
One reason I hate is because it makes sure that most or all PC games for the future will still be tied to a MS operating system, specifically Win 8 and 9. Basically screwing Linux and spitting in the face of something like the Steam Boxes.
One reason I love it is that it really does open up and allow for better ports, better graphics and so on.
I think AMD wanted to stick it to Intel.
fatgamecat
Member
I take it this is mostly good news for PC gamers in terms of performance boosts. Xbox and Windows phone/tablet gamers should benefit from games being easier to port between MS platforms.
As expected Xbox One already has a low level API that can do these sorts of things, the main benefit will be easier coding, porting, and tools for developers.
As expected Xbox One already has a low level API that can do these sorts of things, the main benefit will be easier coding, porting, and tools for developers.
Yeah, it's super easy to make Metro non existent. I use Start 8 but there are plenty of options. I completely forget there is even Metro in Windows 8. I just boot straight to desktop.
It is cheaper, though.
VisceralBowl
Member
Or you could...you know... just upgrade and not wipe or anything. Clean out your system after that is over and be done.
nature boy
Member
This isn't the first time Microsoft has been caught sleeping, and considering the time frame it seems pretty obvious, regardless of code legacy, that a thinner layer of abstraction only became an issue when Mantle was announced.
And by "issue" I mean substantial resources were allocated to implement it.
Turin Turambar
Member
And people complained of Mantle being announced five months before the first release.
ashecitism
Member
Valve don't have Steam in China. Dota 2 is being run from a separate launcher. But let's say they or someone else wants to launch a more cutting edge game over there or their engine doesn't support DX9 anymore, then OGL would make more sense for them unless people start to move on from XP.
Then again I'm not sure MS really cares about China?
IcyRhythms
Member
I doubt Valve has my all of my 300+ games running on SteamOS by the time DX12/W9 is relevant.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Curious, is OpenGL that much harder to code with than DirectX?
XShadows69
Member
Sweet! Time to save up to build!
Probably just to show how easy it was to port the entire engine to DX12
ashecitism
Member
It has worse tools and support. Compared to DX it's decentralized. Valve have been working on that with HW vendors to make the situation better.
plagiarize
Banned
When you're using a dev kit you're still coding much closer to the metal than you would on a normal PC game, because that dev kit has a single GPU spec that you're targeting, which is one meant to closely represent the final PC. So you can do a lot more with that single set of hardware as a result.
They ported the Xbox One version of Forza to DX12 in 4 man months, which is very short time, and they ported it to a different architecture (Nvidia instead of AMD), basically to show that the DX12 *closer to the metal* features are hardware agnostic, where mantle or traditional console development is not.
I really think that's all there is to it. It was an internal experiment to get a handle on how long this stuff takes and what's involved in making a DX12 game. That's all.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
As it should be. OpenGL is very powerful (I think anyways), but yeah, it needs help. It just irks me that it shows that it will be a very long time before Windows is out of the picture when it comes to PC gaming.