From Software responds to Dark Souls II graphics downgrade concerns

luckygodzilla said:
The only confirmed areas we got to see were the Mirror/Looking Glass Knight and the keep at the Forrest of Fallen Giants. Both are entirely enclosed vertical slices with bugger all for draw distance. Still, the framerate seemed better in these ps3 demos than in the actual release.
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The areas shown in the 'PlayStation 3' demos run like crap on the PS3 even with the downgraded visuals of the retail release. Especially as soon as you take out a torch.
 
But what about the gamma/HDMI-bug/global-lighting or whatever thing? I shouldn't have to fiddle with my settings to get the game to look decent. Whatever is going on there has nothing to do with performance.
 
soldat7 said:
But what about the gamma/HDMI-bug/global-lighting or whatever thing? I shouldn't have to fiddle with my settings to get the game to look decent. Whatever is going on there has nothing to do with performance.
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if it really is a bug they might roll it into a patch down the line

Grief.exe said:
“I sincerely don’t think they intended to deceive, but in the end they sacrificed a huge amount of graphical fidelity at the very end of development because they couldn’t resolve the framerate in any other way."

That is essentially what we have been theorizing since day one. If they truly were making desperate cuts at the last minute, then the graphical effects are probably finalized for the PC version.

To be completely honest, any engine resources/compatibility for the last-gen consoles are a sunk investment at this point anyways. From is looking forward to PC/next-gen which will be their future as a company.
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if it's something easy like turning one effect off then maybe but if it requires the least bit of testing i wouldn't be too optimistic

like to be honest the only thing that gives me some shred of hope is current-gen but for them to have the current-gen version effectively done (pc) and not announce it on ps4/xbone doesn't sound like something a pub would do.
 
zkylon said:
if it's something easy like turning one effect off then maybe but if it requires the least bit of testing i wouldn't be too optimistic
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In the other hand, they did delay the PC version, maybe that's why?

One could also say they delayed it because they wanted platform parity so they took an extra month to downgrade it, I guess.

Shit, just show us some footage, please >_<
 
The graphical downgrade at the 11th hour was unfortunate, but what most disappointed me were the gameplay-significant changes that seem to have been made very late in development after the levels were already locked down. The useless sconces everywhere, the repeating textures and areas with completely flat lighting that were never meant to be seen, the carefully placed curse pots in the shaded wood that would be a really interesting mechanic except oops, cursing doesn't do anything bad anymore.
 
Grief.exe said:
“I sincerely don’t think they intended to deceive, but in the end they sacrificed a huge amount of graphical fidelity at the very end of development because they couldn’t resolve the framerate in any other way."

That is essentially what we have been theorizing since day one. If they truly were making desperate cuts at the last minute, then the graphical effects are probably finalized for the PC version.

To be completely honest, any engine resources/compatibility for the last-gen consoles are a sunk investment at this point anyways. From is looking forward to PC/next-gen which will be their future as a company.
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It certainly gives us a lot of hope for the PC version.
 
Gbraga said:
In the other hand, they did delay the PC version, maybe that's why?

One could also say they delayed it because they wanted platform parity so they took an extra month to downgrade it, I guess.

Shit, just show us some footage, please >_<
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generally i'd say it's because pubs like people buying games on consoles since i guess they make more money on them or something.

like ubisoft keeps delaying games even tho i'm pretty sure they have enough pc experience to release them on time, even tho pc usually needs more intensive testing.

i figure testing one fo these huge games must be hell on pc
 
Servbot24 said:
What was wrong with the TGS demo?

Also when was the last Japanese trailer released?
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From decided to show a tech demo instead of the actual game.

CountAntonius said:
Plenty of people said the demo's didn't run fine. Giantbomb for one said it plenty of times in their Quicklook. If it wasn't for performance issues then for what reason do you think it was removed?

I'm all for the false advertising outrage in this thread but thinking they intentionally gimped the game when they didn't need to for some evil reason seems silly to me.
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We've seen plenty of footage of the TGS demo and it ran fine. Maybe Giantbomb was referring to the network test which indeed had poor performance.

Same deal with the Forbes article. The source mentions that the actual game ran awful until the downgrade but we know that the TGS demo ran fine, which means the TGS demo was a separate branch of development not representative of the final game at all. This doesn't bode well for the PC version.

-----------------

If I've learned something from this whole mess is that the #1 enemy of consumers aren't the game companies, it's the consumers. They'll take anything companies make, defend them for every shady practice they display and will attack those that try to make things better for everyone. We can see examples of that in this very page.
 
I've been rewatching the Aching Bones (great song btw) TGS trailer and telling myself that's PC version footage while rocking back and forth in the fetal position.
 
Servbot24 said:
What did From do wrong?
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You love From, we got this pages and pages ago. but trying to say they are not to blame here on this situation at all or say they did nothing wrong on this is just absolutely freaking ridiculous. From is the IP owner, the developer and publisher in Japan, all screenshot will be taken from and by them, all screenshots and media Namco want to post on US and EU sites they will be the one who give, demo giving to journalists like our Gaffer Darkx10 will be made by them, the producers who talk and lied to journalists about new graphic's and engine in multiple interviews were From producers, downgrading decisions is their.
 
You would think if they had to downgrade it because of console performance that they would keep it like before on PC.

Or will PC also get downgraded because FROM cant have PC vs Console looking really different?
 
TheVampire said:
You would think if they had to downgrade it because of console performance that they would keep it like before on PC.

Or will PC also get downgraded because FROM cant have PC vs Console looking really different?
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There was no downgrade. From showed a tech demo since the reveal until January 2014. Then they started showing the real game at the last minute in hopes people wouldn't find out about how the retail product doesn't match the demo.
 
I'm almost more excited for the reactions to the PC reveal than I am for the game at this point. From can't win here and the salt is going to be epic no matter how it turns out.
 
Grief.exe said:
That is essentially what we have been theorizing since day one. If they truly were making desperate cuts at the last minute, then the graphical effects are probably finalized for the PC version.
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It would certainly explain a 6 week delay, if the original high quality lighting was in to such a late stage, they'd need to finalize testing on that, and have the PC version up to par so they can port it to next gen after.

A man can dream...

Edit: On a related note, the game is still awesome, even on consoles with downgraded graphics with wonky framerates.
 
Misterinenja said:
Why not just trade it in bro? Imagine how many used copies of Kameo you could get for it.

I heard that games graphics are sick.
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tumblr_m961tmUFcj1r3qnxf.gif
 
It's really amazing how big of a step down this game is (graphically) when compared to the other two Souls games.
Animations were downgraded too.The sense of weight in movement is gone. :(

And what's with the soft shadows around the character's feet?It looks as if they are wearing slippers. :/
 
sublimit said:
It's really amazing how big of a step down this game is (graphically) when compared to the other two Souls games.
Animations were downgraded too.The sense of weight in movement is gone. :(
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kinda crazy after all the big fuzz they made about motion capturing for the first time

makes sense tho, wielding some of these weapons might look less cool in reality than in the minds of the guys and gals at from
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
If I've learned something from this whole mess is that the #1 enemy of consumers aren't the game companies, it's the consumers. They'll take anything companies make, defend them for every shady practice they display and will attack those that try to make things better for everyone. We can see examples of that in this very page.
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Can you point out where the bolded is happening on this very page?
 
CountAntonius said:
Can you point out where the bolded is happening on this very page?
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I wrote the post when I was on page 25. There you have Morrigan Targaryen, a person who bought the game in its buggy state, defending/trivializing FROM/Namco's false advertising practices and mocking those that are calling From/Namco for their shit.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
When not disclosed as such and passed off as the real thing, it's false advertising. Willful deception, plain and simple.
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How could it have possibly been anything else when the game wasn't completed?

sublimit said:
It's really amazing how big of a step down this game is (graphically) when compared to the other two Souls games.
Animations were downgraded too.The sense of weight in movement is gone. :(

And what's with the soft shadows around the character's feet?It looks as if they are wearing slippers. :/
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It's very clearly an upgrade imo. I think you're in the minority if you think this looks worse than the previous games.
 
Clear said:
Don't try and turn this around. You made a factually incorrect statement -that torches are now "useless"- and I called you on it. The areas that were shown in the pre-release footage just used lighting cosmetically, and in the example I provided torches and the dynamic lighting tech provide both cosmetic and mechanical effects - i.e. the presence of light actually changes enemy behaviour.
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Nope, saying torches are useless is perfectly legit statement to make regarding this game. All you're suggesting is that they are areas "where they still work" which is fine if you want to get technical but in general terms the area you described before can be passed without the need for torches since it's so bright.

So all you're arguing is technicalities of a statement, but that doesn't fix the problem.

Also you say the areas affected are just cosmetic . No it's not actually. For example, there is an area where it is pointless to light the big fire that lights up the room after the downgrade since you can still see - are you saying this section was intentional? It obviously had a purpose which is useless now since it's so bright.

Clear said:
I've not come across an area where enemies pop-in, and I consider it a positive thing that not every area with torches requires them to be lit in order to get by. As it stands its something you can choose to do, or simply pass on.
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So you're saying there is no lighting downgrade and it everything ppl here are saying is affected is actually intentional?

Clear said:
Maybe the feedback from test was that the torch-lighting mechanic was tedious and simply not fun. You can't disprove this, and actual experience playing the game supports this view.
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What we do know is the game was downgraded and looks much worse.

Maybe it was struggling so much on last gen hardware they had to keep cutting till they reached "acceptable levels", the actual experience playing the game and it's already shoddy performance with the downgrades supports this view. There is a list of issues performance and gameplay wise in this very thread.

Clear said:
If you want a game that does everything you want, just how you want it. Here's a pro-tip: Code it yourself. Otherwise expect the people making the game to have the final say in what they think is for the best.

What's "hilarious" here is the certainty with which you make pronouncements based on presumption and ignorance as if they are fact.
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Yes because no on here is complaining about the bait and switch and they should go and "code it themselves".

/s
 
Servbot24 said:
But they did show the actual game. Then they had to downgrade it.

Should they have shown nothing instead?
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They showed--or perhaps pretended to show--a demo of the game running on a PS3. If that had not happened, many more people would be understanding about this "required and obvious" downgrade.

Show me awesome visuals I feel are out of reach of the PS3 with no mention of the platform you're showing and I'll be guarded about my PS3 expectations. Show me a game you claim IS RUNNING ON THE PS3 and I will be far less understanding when the final product does not look as good as the demo...
 
Servbot24 said:
But they did show the actual game. Then they had to downgrade it.

Should they have shown nothing instead?
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Stop trolling. This wasn't them just hitting the "downgrade" button on their workstations. They had to create new assets to go along with the downgrades. It did not take only 2 months to do that. They knew for a long time the game was not going to look anything like the PS3 network test and other preview material.
 
HDgaming42 said:
They showed--or perhaps pretended to show--a demo of the game running on a PS3. If that had not happened, many more people would be understanding about this "required and obvious" downgrade.

Show me awesome visuals I feel are out of reach of the PS3 with no mention of the platform you're showing and I'll be guarded about my PS3 expectations. Show me a game you claim IS RUNNING ON THE PS3 and I will be far less understanding when the final product does not look as good as the demo...
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Where did they do this? Give me a link.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
I wrote the post when I was on page 25. There you have Morrigan Targaryen, a person who bought the game in its buggy state, defending/trivializing FROM/Namco's false advertising practices and mocking those that are calling From/Namco for their shit.
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Oh ok I thought you meant me or something cause I didn't see this post on this page.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
They didn't show the actual game. They showed a tech demo and passed it off as if was the real game.
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It WAS the real game when they showed it. You don't know that they were chuckling to themselves and rubbing their hands, waiting to downgrade it.

Look, I'm not defending false advertising. But I think you're trying as hard as you can to turn From into villains when it's not really warranted. There is nothing wrong with showing a video game you've been working on, realizing you went too far with the graphics, and scaling it back. That is not a sin. You're making it out to be one.

It's what happens after they realize the need to scale it back that you can call their morality into question.
 
Servbot24 said:
It WAS the real game when they showed it. You don't know that they were chuckling to themselves and rubbing their hands, waiting to downgrade it.

Look, I'm not defending false advertising. But I think you're trying as hard as you can to turn From into villains when it's not really warranted. There is nothing wrong with showing a video game you've been working on, realizing you went too far with the graphics, and scaling it back. That is not a sin. You're making it out to be one.

It's what happens after they realize the need to scale it back that you can call their morality into question.
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There is nothing right about not being forthcoming about which platform you are showing footage from. Someone else mentioned it before, but Kojima got it right--FROM did not.

Show us every damned version running side by side. Show us the differences without having to wait for a DF article. Drop the price when it's revealed your game is fairly short.

THAT is how to do business. IMHO.
 
Servbot24 said:
It's very clearly an upgrade imo. I think you're in the minority if you think this looks worse than the previous games.
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I don't know if i'm in the minority or in the majority but after playing DS2 for an hour or so i switched back to Demon's and then Dark (PS3) and they looked much better.Lighting was better,textures were more crisp and the main character also looked better.Comparing my DS2 avatar to the ones from Demon's and Dark made the DS2 one look as if it had less polygons than the other ones.

Also when my character walked in Demon's/Dark i could feel the weight of each step (regardless of armor weight).This made the character's movement feel more determined which personally it helped make me feel more immersed in my character.
In DS2 the character movement feels floaty and the walking animations look just plain bad.

The Souls games were by far my favourite games of the generation but i don't think i can turn a blind eye to such a big downgrade.
 
CountAntonius said:
Oh ok I thought you meant me or something cause I didn't see this post on this page.
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Nah, you're logical.

Servbot24 said:
It WAS the real game when they showed it. You don't know that they were chuckling to themselves and rubbing their hands, waiting to downgrade it.

Look, I'm not defending false advertising. But I think you're trying as hard as you can to turn From into villains when it's not really warranted. There is nothing wrong with showing a video game you've been working on, realizing you went too far with the graphics, and scaling it back. That is not a sin. You're making it out to be one.

It's what happens after they realize the need to scale it back that you can call their morality into question.
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According to Giantbomb, ENB and From, the real game had severe framerate problems before the downgrade. We know that the E3/TGS demo, which was shown as far as late January, ran perfectly fine on PS3. So either they're all lying or what they showed us wasn't the real game, but a tech demo made separately. From could have been honest and show the real game from the beginning but chose instead to deceive us.
 
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