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[Fezan]

We'll see. He had a crack at one of the greatest comics of all time with Watchmen and couldn't knock it out of the park.

Well he made a pretty great movie from a comic which was deemed unfilmable. and is one best comic book movie on some people lists so that's some thing

Directing. Every scene in Winter Soldier that had multiple people on screen ended up with all but two characters being nothing more then flower pots. The Russo's seemed unable to balance multiple characters interacting at the same time.

If anyone should replace Whedon in the event of his departure it should be someone like Justin Lin who can handle scenes with several characters.

I agree with this point but the russos movie had a much better action even at lower budget and smaller scale

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Directing. Every scene in Winter Soldier that had multiple people on screen ended up with all but two characters being nothing more then flower pots. The Russo's seemed unable to balance multiple characters interacting at the same time.

Just to be clear, are you criticizing the blocking, or the fact the camera only stuck to the two people talking at any given moment as opposed to keeping everyone in frame?

"He got more than two people talking at the same time" isn't a great metric for quality of direction. Especially considering the film managed to actually feel bigger, more important, and more complicated on a storytelling level than Avengers did, without sacrificing coherence OR style.

Winter Soldier felt like it meant more than Avengers did on a considerably smaller scale. That's a sign of good direction, to me.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Shaany, it was a joke, buddy. I thought it would be funny. No need to prod deeper than that.

I don't want to come off as like defensive or whatever. It's cool. And yeah, it's super weird and uncomfortable to look back at that. It just sounded like you were trying to make some kind of statement with it that I didn't really agree with.

 

[Father_Brain]

Is the excitement over Terrio rewriting Batman/Superman less because of Terrio and more because it's not Goyer? Because iirc a lot of people here hated Argo.

I have yet to see Argo, so definitely the latter for me.

 

[Grimsen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMq6xDHBKwQ

These were hilarious back when they aired. There's actually quite a few of them, and it's basically a ruining gag between Ben Afleck and the host of that show. He got progressively more adventurous with each interview.

There's no doubt in my mind that he banged her.

Funfact, she's a porn mogul now.

 

[Raptor]

Shaany, it was a joke, buddy. I thought it would be funny. No need to prod deeper than that.

Nobody laughed sculli, the hell is wrong with you man?

 

[LaNaranja]

Just to be clear, are you criticizing the blocking, or the fact the camera only stuck to the two people talking at any given moment as opposed to keeping everyone in frame?

"He got more than two people talking at the same time" isn't a great metric for quality of direction. Especially considering the film managed to actually feel bigger, more important, and more complicated on a storytelling level than Avengers did, without sacrificing coherence OR style.

Winter Soldier felt like it meant more than Avengers did on a considerably smaller scale. That's a sign of good direction, to me.

It absolutely felt bigger from an action standpoint and Whedon could stand to learn a thing or two from them (as I said) but there there is only so much complexity you can have when servicing as many characters as you are in a movie like The Avengers. I imagine the Russos in charge of Age of Ultron and I can't help but think all the interactions would be between two characters despite multiple characters being on screen. Like whenever Black Widow and Cap were on screen with a third person in Winter Soldier, Widow would almost always go silent. They are good directors, and Winter Soldier was a great movie, but the skills they have shown do not inspire confidence in their ability to handle an ensemble cast like Avengers.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

It absolutely felt bigger from an action standpoint and Whedon could stand to learn a thing or two from them (as I said) but there there is only so much complexity you can have when servicing as many characters as you are in a movie like The Avengers. I imagine the Russos in charge of Age of Ultron and I can't help but think all the interactions would be between two characters despite multiple characters being on screen. Like whenever Black Widow and Cap were on screen with a third person in Winter Soldier, Widow would almost always go silent. They are good directors, and Winter Soldier was a great movie, but the skills they have shown do not inspire confidence in their ability to handle an ensemble cast like Avengers.

I don't agree with this at all. If anything it shows that they know where the scene's focus is, to the point where they can allow Scarlet Jofuckin'handsome serve as background noise.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I imagine the Russos in charge of Age of Ultron and I can't help but think all the interactions would be between two characters despite multiple characters being on screen.

Again, this is a terrible metric to judge quality of direction. The plotting of Winter Soldier was actually more complicated (and the number of supporting characters and villains was roughly the same as Avengers anyway) and yet the way the Russos helped unfold that story was much more assured, measured, and impactful than what Whedon did with Avengers.

That's not to say Avengers is bad, because it wasn't. Not at all. But everything about Avengers that made it notable is done BETTER in Winter Soldier.

That doesn't go out the window because more than two people aren't talking simultaneously onscreen. And honestly, I don't even think that's all that valid an observation, anyway. I'm pretty sure there were multiple times there are like, 5 people in a room and I never once had a problem following the conversation, who was talking to who, and what information was being conveyed through that dialog. If they were cutting away from people mid-scene, that was a CLARIFYING move, to ensure you know who you're supposed to be focusing on. That's not bad direction - that's the opposite.

HOWEVER: If you really dig 3+ people onscreen talking with each other, you will LOVE the films of Robert Altman.

 

[jey_16]

Either Cap moves up to this time in April or S/B move back to mid July. There are no other options, there's 3 other marvel movies that summer after Cap, there's no other spot for it. As the Avengers 2 follow up it can do $120+ OW easily. I think S/B moves to July personally and WB will say "it's to make the movie the fans deserve" or some BS like that.

They will not release the same day, both companies are just dick waving.

if anything, I would like to see WB move it up to early April, the last few years have shown that there is a lot of pent up demand for blockbuster films in the early part of the year compared to releasing in June/July where there is just too much competition

 

[Shaanyboi]

Again, this is a terrible metric to judge quality of direction. The plotting of Winter Soldier was actually more complicated (and the number of supporting characters and villains was roughly the same as Avengers anyway) and yet the way the Russos helped unfold that story was much more assured, measured, and impactful than what Whedon did with Avengers.

That's not to say Avengers is bad, because it wasn't. Not at all. But everything about Avengers that made it notable is done BETTER in Winter Soldier.

That doesn't go out the window because more than two people aren't talking simultaneously onscreen. And honestly, I don't even think that's all that valid an observation, anyway. I'm pretty sure there were multiple times there are like, 5 people in a room and I never once had a problem following the conversation, who was talking to who, and what information was being conveyed through that dialog. If they were cutting away from people mid-scene, that was a CLARIFYING move, to ensure you know who you're supposed to be focusing on. That's not bad direction - that's the opposite.

HOWEVER: If you really dig 3+ people onscreen talking with each other, you will LOVE the films of Robert Altman.

I'd say both movies had very different goals.

Winter Soldier has this conspiracy story it wanted to tell with a lot of tension and discomfort, while also telling this story of Cap losing his connection to his past while embracing his future. And it does that.

Avengers' goal was to take 4 separate film franchises and tonally make them work together while also making their characters play off eachother in ways that challenge one another. And it does that.


The thing is, Winter Soldier is an inherently more interesting story with an inherently more introspective approach to its characters that makes for a better film. But neither should be compared due to the fact that both have very different goals and intentions.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I'd say both movies had very different goals.

Winter Soldier has this conspiracy story it wanted to tell with a lot of tension and discomfort, while also telling this story of Cap losing his connection to his past while embracing his future. And it does that.

Avengers' goal was to take 4 separate film franchises and tonally make them work together while also making their characters play off eachother in ways that challenge one another. And it does that.


The thing is, Winter Soldier is an inherently more interesting story with an inherently more introspective approach to its characters that makes for a better film. But neither should be compared due to the fact that both have very different goals and intentions.

Except the directing styles are what is being questioned. And TWS is better blocked, better shot, better lit, better edited and contains better CG/practical integrated effects than anything Whedon's ever done. And that's without mentioning the better performances.

 

[Jest Chillin]

The Russo's are great but I don't feel they're better than Whedon per say, but that they excel at a different kind of style than what Whedon does. TWS was grittier and fast paced while Whedon tends to be larger with more focus on excitement. The Avengers appealed to a child-like side of me.. coming across similar to the original Star Wars trilogy. The kind of movie that had me actively cheering for the protags. TWS appealed to the adult side of me that enjoys hard hitting action.. coming across similarly to the Bourne movies or Taken.

They're both great in their own ways and I think that ultimately what determines who is best for any particular movie, is the script.

 

[b&jy77VjiKn$#F]

Watched TWS today. The following statement is made entirely on my opinion: This movie is like if TDKR is a better movie than the one we got, that TDKR had a baby with the TDK we got, then Kevin Feige took that baby and named it Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Seriously, best MCU I've ever seen. Better than that of Iron Man 1 and Avengers. Loving every moments of it, I was on the edge of the left handle of my seat all the time. The Russos have just made me their fan (I'd still be dreaming 'bout Zack Snyder though).

I'm a little worried.

 

[Spinluck]

I've had time to think about it, and I'm ok with Whedon directing Avengers 2.

As Just Chill said, they excel at different things. Plus, who's to say Whedon wouldn't make a good solo Marvel flick?

I do wish he changed his visual style though, looks cheap. Like network television cheap.

 

[y2dvd]

Watched TWS today. The following statement is made entirely on my opinion: This movie is like if TDKR is a better movie than the one we got, that TDKR had a baby with the TDK we got, then Kevin Feige took that baby and named it Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Seriously, best MCU I've ever seen. Better than that of Iron Man 1 and Avengers. Loving every moments of it, I was on the edge of the left handle of my seat all the time. The Russos have just made me their fan (I'd still be dreaming 'bout Zack Snyder though).

I'm a little worried.

This gave me Pineapple Express vibes lol.

 

[TUROK]

Except the directing styles are what is being questioned. And TWS is better blocked, better shot, better lit, better edited and contains better CG/practical integrated effects than anything Whedon's ever done. And that's without mentioning the better performances.

TWS relied too much on quick cuts, but when it comes to what they're doing, you have to use them to hide the stunt doubles or make the fights seem more hard-hitting.

The Avengers didn't use many, but the fight scenes that weren't 90 percent CGI were pretty bad.

I don't know where I was going with this.

 

[jmood88]

Evans already has one foot out in the door. He doesn't like acting and hasn't been shy about the fact that as soon as his Marvel contract is done he's going to quit acting and move into directing.

He has also said that the stories about him completely retiring from acting were overblown. With that said, it wouldn't surprise me if he did walk away or take a break but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for him to change his mind.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Watched TWS today. The following statement is made entirely on my opinion: This movie is like if TDKR is a better movie than the one we got, that TDKR had a baby with the TDK we got, then Kevin Feige took that baby and named it Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Seriously, best MCU I've ever seen. Better than that of Iron Man 1 and Avengers. Loving every moments of it, I was on the edge of the left handle of my seat all the time. The Russos have just made me their fan (I'd still be dreaming 'bout Zack Snyder though).

I'm a little worried.

This gave me Pineapple Express vibes lol.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

And of course WB is gonna move the date. In a world where a fuckin' Thor sequel makes almost as much money as Superman, they aren't gonna let their two biggest guns get mixed up with post-Age of Ultron boosted Captain America.

 

[onipex]

I loved Cap2. I think it's Marvel's best movie yet, but I would skip Cap3 to see BvS even if BvS looked like it would be total crap.

 

[Wiktor]

World's Finest picked up the fellow who most recently won the Oscar for best screen writing (Argo) along with a silent firing of Goyer, so I think that's worth considering.

Goyer is great when he's just creating ideas and letting other people actually realize and flesh them out. It's when he's left alone to do the whole script that the true problems start. As ideas man he's great, as screenwriter he's anything but.

 

[richiek]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...sequel-on-collision-course-with-superman.html

“It doesn’t make a lot of sense for two huge superhero films to open on the same date but there is a lot of time between now and 5/6/16,” Dan Fellman, president of domestic distribution for Warner Bros. in Burbank, California, said in an interview. “However at this time, we are not considering a change of date for ‘Batman vs. Superman.’”

LOL Warners.

 

[Blader]

heh, sure gave themselves an out there.

 

[okdakor]

Why Warner Bros Must Move BATMAN VS SUPERMAN From May 6, 2016/

I agree with this opinion, it's a lose-lose situation for WB

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It's like they cornered themselves the moment they pushed the film back to 2016.
Bring it back to 2015.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

As Just Chill said, they excel at different things. Plus, who's to say Whedon wouldn't make a good solo Marvel flick?

I do wish he changed his visual style though, looks cheap. Like network television cheap.

I think Whedon is the perfect choice for Avengers, he is great with ensemble casts and knows the source material in and out. He's a great resource to kind of "oversee" the direction each solo movie may lean towards alongside Feige.

TWS SPOILERS:

Spoiler

What did you feel about the mid-credits scene in The Winter Soldier? It was directed by Whedon and definitely had a distinct visual style compared to Avengers. If he keeps that up I'm sure it'll be an amazing looking film. As indicated earlier today he's considering filming in scope after his experience working with the Russos.

 

[farisr]

Before, coming off of Captain America 1, I thought this face-off would be completely one sided, aka Batman/Superman would come out on top (not talking about movie quality but box office)

But after seeing The Winter Soldier, Cap's movie is definitely a contender.

Though I personally enjoyed Man Of Steel, I can recognize the faults and why many people didn't like the movie. But put Batman/Superman on the screen, regardless of how the trailers look etc, people are going to go watch it just because of the name, because of batman, they want to see how bad (or good) Affleck is in the role, they want to see the clash that happens etc.

On a similar level, I enjoyed Captain America 1, but many people did not like it as much. Cap does not have the draw that Batman or Superman do, which is why I expected Cap 3 to get demolished come 2016. But with such a great movie (Winter Soldier) once people see it they are going to be excited for Cap 3. And if it turns out just as solid, it could turn out to have longer legs than Batman/Superman (depending on how that turns out).

Of course, I hope both movies turn out great.

 

[20cent]

Just in case I missed something, how is "Winter Soldier"?

Because the first movie and character in Avengers pretty sucked...

edit: after a quick read in this topic, cap2 seems like worth watching, alright.

 

[Spinluck]

TWS SPOILERS:

Spoiler

What did you feel about the mid-credits scene in The Winter Soldier? It was directed by Whedon and definitely had a distinct visual style compared to Avengers. If he keeps that up I'm sure it'll be an amazing looking film. As indicated earlier today he's considering filming in scope after his experience working with the Russos.

It looked great.

And I'm glad that he'll be changing up things like the aspect ratio. I'd like the AoU to have a more cinematic feel.

 

[inky]

Why Warner Bros Must Move BATMAN VS SUPERMAN From May 6, 2016/

I agree with this opinion, it's a lose-lose situation for WB

Dat last paragraph. Applies not only to critics, but to certain part of GAF as well.

 

[Can Crusher]

This is pretty funny. I wonder who will step away?!

 

[Messypandas]

Hopefully this gets so dumb it turns into a rep beef, with DC challenging Marvel to retire from the game if they beat their first week sales.

 

[inm8num2]

Disney Could Blink On CAPTAIN AMERICA 3 Release Date

Now Alan Horn, president of Disney, is saying there's a chance the film will move. Variety's Brent Lang reports from a phone conference call:

"We'll see. We're struggling with it" Alan Horn on #CaptainAmerica3 debuting against #BatmanvsSuperman
— Brent Lang (@BrentALang) April 22, 2014

 

[Ashhong]

I thought superman already blinked? Ppl were saying that earlier in this thread

 

[JdFoX187]

Why Warner Bros Must Move BATMAN VS SUPERMAN From May 6, 2016/

I agree with this opinion, it's a lose-lose situation for WB

I still get tired of the assertion that Warner Bros. is shoehorning in Batman because they were disappointed with Man of Steel. The movie did ridiculous numbers at the box office. And Snyder himself has said it was his idea. God awful written piece, I have to say.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Can we please at least get one Captain America movie to land on July 4th?

 

[Blader]

I still get tired of the assertion that Warner Bros. is shoehorning in Batman because they were disappointed with Man of Steel. The movie did ridiculous numbers at the box office. And Snyder himself has said it was his idea. God awful written piece, I have to say.

I don't think anyone actually believes he pitched the whole thing himself. His comments at last year's Comic Con about falling in line with the studio and ultimately doing what WB wanted would cement that, I think.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Winter Soldier felt like it meant more than Avengers did on a considerably smaller scale. That's a sign of good direction, to me.

This is a good way to say "Its not as good as the Avengers, but I like it more."

 

[Delta Assault]

I thought superman already blinked? Ppl were saying that earlier in this thread

Superman's not gonna blink.

 

[BadAss2961]

I thought superman already blinked? Ppl were saying that earlier in this thread

People were jumping the gun off speculation.

Anyway, someone will move. It's in neither of their best interests to release at the same time, BvS especially.

 

[matrix-cat]

The Avengers didn't use many, but the fight scenes that weren't 90 percent CGI were pretty bad.

After seeing Winter Soldier, trying to go back to Cap's fight scenes in Avengers is painful. That bit where he fights two Chitauri on top of the cop car to impress the cops (finishing in the most achingly sincere 'badass' pose) is straight out of Buffy, and don't get me started on him just standing by the big red lever for the entire Helicarrier fight, stop'n'pop shooting with some random henchman. Ugh.

Still, I'm sure Joss Whedon didn't personally choreograph every punch and block, just like the Russos probably didn't for TWS. All they need to do is hire back whichever behind-the-scenes saints made the magic happen and we'll be just fine. I needs my shield-throwing Cap Fu fix.

 

[bananas]

Can we please at least get one Captain America movie to land on July 4th?

Marvel does have a slot for a movie on 7/8/16.

Funny enough, Independence Day 2 is scheduled for 7/1/16.

July 4th is on a Monday that year, by the way.

 

[Delta Assault]

After seeing Winter Soldier, trying to go back to Cap's fight scenes in Avengers is painful. That bit where he fights two Chitauri on top of the cop car to impress the cops (finishing in the most achingly sincere 'badass' pose) is straight out of Buffy, and don't get me started on him just standing by the big red lever for the entire Helicarrier fight, stop'n'pop shooting with some random henchman. Ugh.

Still, I'm sure Joss Whedon didn't personally choreograph every punch and block, just like the Russos probably didn't for TWS. All they need to do is hire back whichever behind-the-scenes saints made the magic happen and we'll be just fine. I needs my shield-throwing Cap Fu fix.

The one I find most egregious is where Hawk Eye is calmly holding his bow straight ahead, preparing to shoot down Loki. Yet then the camera cuts and you see Loki and he's flying all over the sky, weaving left and right and flying completely erratically. Then it cuts back to Hawk Eye and he's still just holding the bow in place, as if he was concentrating on shooting a stationery target.

 

[DieH@rd]

All this talk about both movies is just benefiting them both. Marvel is smart to continue stirring that plot, they are getting very effective free marketing 2 years before film is out.

Personally, I could care less. I usually watch MCU films on bluray, except for very few films when stars align and I have the chance to visit semi-neighboring city that has nice multiplex.

 

[richiek]

Disney Could Blink On CAPTAIN AMERICA 3 Release Date

Perhaps Disney moving the Star Wars release dates up to May is the reason for this?

 

[inm8num2]

Perhaps Disney moving the Star Wars release dates up to May is the reason for this?

Brent Lang ‏@BrentALang 7h

Disney Studios chief says #StarWats movies may revert to May release dates from Dec debuts. Depends on screenplay readiness.

Interesting...

 

[Blader]

I assume he's talking about the spin-offs and future episodes. They're not gonna bump up VII by 7 months, especially since they haven't even finished casting/started shooting yet.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

I assume he's talking about the spin-offs and future episodes. They're not gonna bump up VII by 7 months, especially since they haven't even finished casting/started shooting yet.

That would be a six month delay if they moved VII to May 2016, wouldn't it?

 

[Blader]

That would be a six month delay if they moved VII to May 2016, wouldn't it?

right, but my read on it was that VII would continue to be December while future movies would hit in May instead, depending on whether if they were ready or not.