-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Captain America: The Winter Soldier |OT| "Before we get started...
- Thread starter Replicant
- Start date
- Status
Yup. Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The pacing the first film is so off, but this movie was on fire! Can't wait for the next one. Interesting that a potential antagonist for the third film will be
a psychotic 1950s Cap
Like a few have said, I'm surprised at how polarising Iron Man 3 is. Maybe it's because I'm not a very big comic reader, and I understand that merely saying "this film had balls" isn't a good qualifier for quality...
but RDJ is the best thing about the series by miles so I'm not going to complain when I get more him than the suits, and even then IM3 had the best action of the three. Kingsley was fucking dynamite, James Badge Dale was fun, the script was superb and made me laugh a ton. Loved it, best Marvel movie for me.
Second is Winter Soldier, which I saw for the second time tonight. Have to agree with Sculli and Kaep (CAP) above; I'd love to see the Russos given a crack at Avengers. Not that I didn't enjoy A1 (I didn't the first time, but a recent rewatch was fun), but they have an understanding visually that Whedon - good writer that he is - doesn't really have.
but RDJ is the best thing about the series by miles so I'm not going to complain when I get more him than the suits, and even then IM3 had the best action of the three. Kingsley was fucking dynamite, James Badge Dale was fun, the script was superb and made me laugh a ton. Loved it, best Marvel movie for me.
Second is Winter Soldier, which I saw for the second time tonight. Have to agree with Sculli and Kaep (CAP) above; I'd love to see the Russos given a crack at Avengers. Not that I didn't enjoy A1 (I didn't the first time, but a recent rewatch was fun), but they have an understanding visually that Whedon - good writer that he is - doesn't really have.
TDLink
Member
Iron Man 3 was a bit messy but I think most of the people who think it's bad/terrible just wanted to see more Iron Man action rather than a good movie and/or thought the Mandarin twist was a betrayal of some sort.
The movie's not bad. It's also pretty funny. I don't know if I would say it's amazing, but I'd definitely rank it in the "pretty good" category.
People complaining about the movie being mostly "Tony Stark" rather than Iron Man are completely missing the point of the film.
The Winter Soldier though is not messy. It is definitely a great film. I would say it's the best Marvel Studios has put out so far, including better than The Avengers.
The movie's not bad. It's also pretty funny. I don't know if I would say it's amazing, but I'd definitely rank it in the "pretty good" category.
People complaining about the movie being mostly "Tony Stark" rather than Iron Man are completely missing the point of the film.
The Winter Soldier though is not messy. It is definitely a great film. I would say it's the best Marvel Studios has put out so far, including better than The Avengers.
TDLink
Member
I maintain that the main failings of the first film were that they needed to rush it to a conclusion where Steve ended up in the present time. If they didn't have to do that the film would have been top of the line. The first 60% or so is a great great origin story.
Do you like Lethal Weapon ? do it : don't.
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
Nice ternary conditional
I feel like doing a personal ranking now:
A-Tier: The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man
B-Tier: Thor: The Dark World, The Incredible Hulk, Captain America: The First Avenger
C-Tier: Iron Man 3, Thor, Iron Man 2
This is how it breaks down for me. I've enjoyed all the films so far, but this ranking could be seen as how much I enjoy the films overall. Where I differ from a lot of people here, is probably my opinion of The Incredible Hulk, which I liked a lot. I did not hate Iron Man 3 by any means, I liked it more than 2, but I didn't realize so many people held it highly. Just find that interesting. I definitely liked the Dark World more than the original Thor too, always felt lukewarm on Thor.
Still, I don't hate any of these movies, not one bit. Would love to add Guardians of The Galaxy to the A-Tier.
A-Tier: The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Iron Man
B-Tier: Thor: The Dark World, The Incredible Hulk, Captain America: The First Avenger
C-Tier: Iron Man 3, Thor, Iron Man 2
This is how it breaks down for me. I've enjoyed all the films so far, but this ranking could be seen as how much I enjoy the films overall. Where I differ from a lot of people here, is probably my opinion of The Incredible Hulk, which I liked a lot. I did not hate Iron Man 3 by any means, I liked it more than 2, but I didn't realize so many people held it highly. Just find that interesting. I definitely liked the Dark World more than the original Thor too, always felt lukewarm on Thor.
Still, I don't hate any of these movies, not one bit. Would love to add Guardians of The Galaxy to the A-Tier.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
It must be a comic fan thing ranking the Avengers as the top tier of Marvel films, as a film fan I just dont see how you can do it.
Yeah, what an improvement. Lol.
Against my better judgement I gave this movie a chance. You know what? Another year, another totes average Mahvel production. Whatever it is people are seeing in this, I just do not. I wish I could say I was over giving my money to mediocre, unambitious, middle of the road blockbusters, but I'll probably be watching a heck of a lot more crap this year.
TWS did have some good fighting choreography, I'll give it that. On the other hand the cinematography was total shit. Maybe the worst I've seen in a Marvel movie yet.
TWS did have some good fighting choreography, I'll give it that. On the other hand the cinematography was total shit. Maybe the worst I've seen in a Marvel movie yet.
Discotheque
Banned
are you just talking about the shaky cam? because aside from that this is easily the best looking marvel film visually.
also avengers has the worst cinematography hands down in the MCU. it's like a 200 million dollar agents of shield episode.
To me it couldn't have looked any duller. Just flat out ugly.
I just felt it wasn't a good iron man movie. That gold suit felt like an in between suit that wasn't final and the iron man character was reduced to nothingness. I think Tony died about 5 times in the last battle. Annoying as hell to watch because I kept waiting for that one suit to show up.
I think I may need to see it again.
Curious to see how these Bros would do with an avengers movie but I fear it wouldn't be as fun. TWS was pretty good but boy did it drag. Loved the fight scenes but the large set piece at the end was boring as hell with Falcon just kind of flying around. Not sure they'd be able to handle the likes of what we saw in Avengers 1 but I could be wrong.
Opinions!
Everyone seems to be doing there own ranking , mine is unique because it seems like my favorites of the bunch are what many consider the worst.
Captain America : the first avenger and Iron Man 3 are probably my favorite movies of the whole shebang.
Iron Man 1 and Cap : Winter Soldier come in second place
Both Thor movies as well as the Avengers come in 3rd place ...
And by itself in 4th place is Iron man 2
Last place, and the only somewhat poor film of the whole bunch - Incredible Hulk.
I have no interest in how faithful anything in these movies is to the comic books- I watch movies to be entertained and nothing out of all of these movies was as entertaining to me as the first captain america. Iron Man 1 and 3 are very close in quality but the 3rd film is the only one in the series with a halfway decent villain , the comedy is about as good in each entry but the third film just has a much better narrative arc. Winter Soldier was an awesome spy movie that happened to feature captain america , I loved all the callbacks to the first film and the overall character arc Steve Rogers has- how can he still be relevant in the 21st century ? what's left for him to do ?
Both Thor Films are at least interesting in their presentation of the alien world of Asgard and Loki is an endlessly entertaining character too. Both films have the same unfortunate flaw though- too many human characters with iffy interactions. Avengers , upon re-watching it last year was actually a little weaker than I first imagined. It was great seeing all those characters on screen for the same movie but at the end of the day, the last act of the film was really no different then the last act of the much weaker Transformers 3. The cast has a ton of charisma and act off one another with some pretty great lines but the movie came off feeling like fluff.
Iron Man 2, I honestly do find it entertaining to watch but it's practically just a comedy more than anything else. Sam Rockwell and RDJ just steal every scene they're in. Problem is , so much of the movie is spent as a prequel to the avengers that it falls a little short and feels a bit messy compared to either the first or second Iron man.
Incredible Hulk just isn't very good, it's still light years ahead of that terrible pile of crap that Ang Lee pushed out after a night of hard drinking and pop corn but that really isn't saying too much. This movie is all set up for HULK VS Abomination and I suppose it pulls that off but it's really not that interesting a story. It's also the only marvel movie where the casting feels a bit off. Norton is typically a good actor but Liv Tyler is horrible in this movie. I may hate Ang Lees movies but Jennifer Connelly is a FAR better actress than Liv Tyler. Sure the big CG fight scene is at least mildly entertaining when all is said and done but a movie needs more than that. If nothing else, Avengers proved to me that Hulk works far better as a support character in an ensemble film rather than a stand alone feature. I suppose we could still get a sequel with "The Leader" as a villain but would anyone really want to see it ?
Everyone seems to be doing there own ranking , mine is unique because it seems like my favorites of the bunch are what many consider the worst.
Captain America : the first avenger and Iron Man 3 are probably my favorite movies of the whole shebang.
Iron Man 1 and Cap : Winter Soldier come in second place
Both Thor movies as well as the Avengers come in 3rd place ...
And by itself in 4th place is Iron man 2
Last place, and the only somewhat poor film of the whole bunch - Incredible Hulk.
I have no interest in how faithful anything in these movies is to the comic books- I watch movies to be entertained and nothing out of all of these movies was as entertaining to me as the first captain america. Iron Man 1 and 3 are very close in quality but the 3rd film is the only one in the series with a halfway decent villain , the comedy is about as good in each entry but the third film just has a much better narrative arc. Winter Soldier was an awesome spy movie that happened to feature captain america , I loved all the callbacks to the first film and the overall character arc Steve Rogers has- how can he still be relevant in the 21st century ? what's left for him to do ?
Both Thor Films are at least interesting in their presentation of the alien world of Asgard and Loki is an endlessly entertaining character too. Both films have the same unfortunate flaw though- too many human characters with iffy interactions. Avengers , upon re-watching it last year was actually a little weaker than I first imagined. It was great seeing all those characters on screen for the same movie but at the end of the day, the last act of the film was really no different then the last act of the much weaker Transformers 3. The cast has a ton of charisma and act off one another with some pretty great lines but the movie came off feeling like fluff.
Iron Man 2, I honestly do find it entertaining to watch but it's practically just a comedy more than anything else. Sam Rockwell and RDJ just steal every scene they're in. Problem is , so much of the movie is spent as a prequel to the avengers that it falls a little short and feels a bit messy compared to either the first or second Iron man.
Incredible Hulk just isn't very good, it's still light years ahead of that terrible pile of crap that Ang Lee pushed out after a night of hard drinking and pop corn but that really isn't saying too much. This movie is all set up for HULK VS Abomination and I suppose it pulls that off but it's really not that interesting a story. It's also the only marvel movie where the casting feels a bit off. Norton is typically a good actor but Liv Tyler is horrible in this movie. I may hate Ang Lees movies but Jennifer Connelly is a FAR better actress than Liv Tyler. Sure the big CG fight scene is at least mildly entertaining when all is said and done but a movie needs more than that. If nothing else, Avengers proved to me that Hulk works far better as a support character in an ensemble film rather than a stand alone feature. I suppose we could still get a sequel with "The Leader" as a villain but would anyone really want to see it ?
TheKaeptain
Banned
Good tier: Cap 2. Iron Man
Shit tier: The rest.
Shit tier: The rest.
TUROK
Member
I was racking my brain, trying to find another good villain from the MCU, and all I could think of was Abomination. Haha.
I'm sure they'd do fine. I really doubt they'd have enough creative control to make it a serious affair. Also, when you're able to CG 90 percent of your final setpiece, you can pretty much make anything work. Aside from the hand-to-hand stuff, the action sequences in TWS weren't that great.
Callibretto
Member
They got guardians of the galaxy guy? Awesome, I don't know whether gotg will be good film or not, but from the trailer, you can expect it to be a very beautiful looking film.
Lol, that was what my list boiled down to essentially.
TheVampire
Banned
I liked The Avengers full screen aspect ratio.
I find it odd anyone would blame Seamus for the film looking cheap as if that's something attached to him regularly. His work is mostly gorgeous.
A couple comments in response to the rankings of MCU films...
Although nothing will compare to the spectacle and bombast of Avengers, WS was better written and I loved seeing another more down-to-earth MCU film. So well cast, written, acted, and directed. I could watch watch Rogers running through doors and bonking bad guys with his shield all day.
Incredible Hulk was more of a success to me than with others. Perhaps the reason is my love of the 70's/80's TV show with Bixby/Ferrigno, and then the strange and difficult-to-enjoy Hulk film by Ang Lee in 2003. Coming off that, I loved the stuff in TIH 2008 like the brief inclusion of The Lonely Man piano piece; Banner's running and stealing clothes; the entire excellent Brazil section, and other stuff. And seeing Tony Stark at the end was still a new concept, tying the film universes together and promising Avengers.
Getting back to WS, I grew up reading Captain America and The Falcon, so I was pumped to see Falcon in WS! I'm glad he doesn't talk to birds any more (
). Mackie was great, as was Redford.
I loved the Winter Soldier character. When he shows up, the fight just got practically unwinnable for the good guys. I was surprised how little he was uses, and thus when he shows up, it means more to the film.
Although nothing will compare to the spectacle and bombast of Avengers, WS was better written and I loved seeing another more down-to-earth MCU film. So well cast, written, acted, and directed. I could watch watch Rogers running through doors and bonking bad guys with his shield all day.
Incredible Hulk was more of a success to me than with others. Perhaps the reason is my love of the 70's/80's TV show with Bixby/Ferrigno, and then the strange and difficult-to-enjoy Hulk film by Ang Lee in 2003. Coming off that, I loved the stuff in TIH 2008 like the brief inclusion of The Lonely Man piano piece; Banner's running and stealing clothes; the entire excellent Brazil section, and other stuff. And seeing Tony Stark at the end was still a new concept, tying the film universes together and promising Avengers.
Getting back to WS, I grew up reading Captain America and The Falcon, so I was pumped to see Falcon in WS! I'm glad he doesn't talk to birds any more (
). Mackie was great, as was Redford. I loved the Winter Soldier character. When he shows up, the fight just got practically unwinnable for the good guys. I was surprised how little he was uses, and thus when he shows up, it means more to the film.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Am I the only one who enjoyed the beginning of the movie where Cap and Falcon after they're running are just talking...you know like normal people?
No dramatic exposition, or whatever. Just...two guys making small talk after a run.
No dramatic exposition, or whatever. Just...two guys making small talk after a run.
I loved that scene and all the interactions with Cap and Falcon.
RuinerPrime
Member
I'd imagine everybody enjoyed that. also .. "On your left" / "Don't you say it again!"
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I agree. I won't go so far as to say that the first Captain America was the best Marvel movie, but I will say that I find it the most enjoyable Marvel movie to rewatch. I simply love the tone and feel of CA1, it's both patriotic and adventurous and just a great story, plus I love the whole WWII feel and vibe to the film. Gives me such an Indiana Jones / Rocketeer feeling that I can't help but smile throughout the entire thing. Plus it has my favorite Marvel credits montage at the end, with all of the WWII nostalgic posters and such. I know a lot of people didn't care much for CA1, but it's my favorite to watch over and over again.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Really off topic, but beware, SPOILERS:
Concerning Iron Man 3
Can anyone confirm this?
Concerning Iron Man 3
My friend told me there's a canon one-shot on the Thor 2 DVD/Blu-ray that shows Ben Kingsley in prison after the events of Iron Man 3, and during an interview that the real Mandarin is upset with Kingsley mocking his character.
Can anyone confirm this?
Dirtyshubb
Member
All very true
Its real. One Shot is called Hail to the King
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Ah shit, so what do you two think? Does this suggest involvement in Avengers 2, or is this making an opening for an Iron Man 4 should Downey want to make one again?
Callibretto
Member
Gut feeling is the latter. But we don't know if we're going to get ironman 4 anytime soon. Looks like marvel already have so much project in development like dr strange, antman and both cap/thor sequels, black widow rumor. Also if guardians of the galaxy become a hit, you can bet they'll expand to other cosmic series maybe nova.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Also,
1. Super Soldier vs. Cyber Ninja
2.
Cyber Ninja is old friend of Super Solider who he thought was dead
Ninja Saves Soldier in Climax
5. Dialogue about controlling people using fear
6.
Super Solider actually working for bad guys
8. Climax consists of super solider fighting autonomous doomsday weapon
9. Elevator Battle
10. Hot babe who helps super soldier
Noisepurge
Member
i think it was just to make
oldschool Mandarin
Even the music for the boat scene lol
I don't think it's either one. It's just meant to be clarify
the link between the Mandarin in IM1/2 and Kingsley's Mandarin in 3.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Once the DVD comes out, I'm making a Winter Solider trailer using the MGS 2 intro music
12. Super Soldier's legacy goes back to WW-II except it's one guy as opposed to Boss ---> Big Boss ---> 3 Snake's
13. Cap fights a minigun dude = Vulcan Raven [/Reaching]
14.
Creepy AI Arnin Zola = Patriots
Dirtyshubb
Member
Yah i think this is probably the case, of course it does also leave it open for something down the line but chances are its just a nice bonus for fans.
- Status