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[KibblesBits]

Let's say I find black hair more appealing than blonde hair. Wouldn't it then follow that, given equal sample sizes, I would be attracted to fewer white women than women of certain other races? Where do you draw the line? Do you just like everything or not like anything?

I don't have a preference. I don't find things more appealing. Sexy is just sexy and it's not bound by some strange arbitrary category. I also suffer from a lack or weakness of theory of mind which means I cannot relate to such nonsense that people come up with to explain why they feel the way they do. I am simply stating where I am, how I feel and why I don't care for or understand others stances on the issue.

 

[Always-honest]

I find that the older we get the more we start to appreciate the diversities inherent in the human genetic ocean. every single ethnicity has some quintessential trait that is 'desirable'.

some people limit themselves (subsconscioulsy or otherwise) others dont

yeah, you matured like a fine wine and we turned in to vinegar...

Well, I'm married, so ultimately seeing women who get me excited isn't really all that helpful anyway.

Well, you're taking it home, so all is well ;P.
I'm in a relationship for over 17 years myself. So all this talk is fine. But i'm staying right where i am anyway.

 

[erpg]

I don't have a preference. I don't find things more appealing. Sexy is just sexy and it's not bound by some strange arbitrary category. I also suffer from a lack or weakness of theory of mind which means I cannot relate to such nonsense that people come up with to explain why they feel the way they do. I am simply stating where I am, how I feel and why I don't care for or understand others stances on the issue.

Must be tough. But believe me, people do have preferences and people do like specific things.

 

[The Librarian]

*nods*

Dark brown too.

Yes, that too.

I also don't think that people who have preferences for certain races are not necessarily discriminatory or racist – you're attracted to what you're attracted to.

 

[BeauRoger]

That one even has to clarify that you can have different aesthetic preferences without being racist is kind of sad.

 

[Always-honest]

I don't have a preference. I don't find things more appealing. Sexy is just sexy and it's not bound by some strange arbitrary category. I also suffer from a lack or weakness of theory of mind which means I cannot relate to such nonsense that people come up with to explain why they feel the way they do. I am simply stating where I am, how I feel and why I don't care for or understand others stances on the issue.

That's fine. Carry on being perfect.

 

[SmokyDave]

I have a strong preference for blue-eyed blondes. Always have, as long as I remember. I don't even attempt to separate cultural influences from personal preference because I couldn't possibly know where to begin. I just know how I feel when I look at things and some things move me more than others.

I don't have a preference. I don't find things more appealing. Sexy is just sexy and it's not bound by some strange arbitrary category. I also suffer from a lack or weakness of theory of mind which means I cannot relate to such nonsense that people come up with to explain why they feel the way they do. I am simply stating where I am, how I feel and why I don't care for or understand others stances on the issue.

You might not recognise your preferences, but you do have them. There's a reason you chose the woman in your avatar and not someone else.

 

[jorma]

Racism isn't confined to "acting shitty" to people from other races.

If you want the word to mean something when you call other people "racists", then yes it is.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I don't have a preference. I don't find things more appealing. Sexy is just sexy and it's not bound by some strange arbitrary category. I also suffer from a lack or weakness of theory of mind which means I cannot relate to such nonsense that people come up with to explain why they feel the way they do. I am simply stating where I am, how I feel and why I don't care for or understand others stances on the issue.

If someone were able to keep data on which people you found sexy over the course of your entire life, certain patterns would emerge. There would be some semblance of some kind of preference--maybe not racial, but something--somewhere. What if people then looked at those patterns and started making all sorts of assumptions and throwing accusations of prejudice at you?

Like you said, "sexy is just sexy." You like what you like and you don't need to explain it. Why, then, do you accuse people of prejudice when they're simply acting on what they feel? Most likely, they're not judging women by their race at all. They just feel more attracted to certain observable features. Sexy is just sexy.

 

[Sneds]

Oh ok, so this is going to be one of those discussions where it's racist to even recognize that people have a race?

Or are you saying because it's 'elevating' one race above another? which I would agree with as perhaps a societal issue, but this isn't a societal issue, this is about individuals. I get to choose ONE person to be with, if you want to say society is racist and influences my decision, whatever that's a different argument you're free to have it, but it does not make an individual racist to choose to be with the person that makes them the most happy, based on any criteria they choose.

You need to divorce the overall from the individual, which is an entirely different focus.

No.

But to say, "I'm not treating them badly, therefore it isn't racist" isn't a good argument. You can treat people well and still hold racist attitudes.

I'm not sure if finding one race more attractive than another is racist or not to be honest. I do find it odd that people aren't attracted to any member of a particular race. It's strange to me that dark skin, for example, would be so off-putting that you wouldn't find a single black person attractive. My suspicion would be that there are social factors at play and it isn't just a case of unconnected physical preferences. It seems too much of a coincidence to me that afro hair, dark skin and 'certain facial features' are all apparently individually off-putting to some people.

If you want the word to mean something when you call other people "racists", then yes it is.

I think only a very naive person would define racism that way. How does paternalism fit into that defnition?

 

[StuBurns]

No.

But to say, "I'm not treating them badly, therefore it isn't racist" isn't a good argument. You can treat people well and still hold racist attitudes.

I'm not sure if finding one race more attractive than another is racist or not to be honest. I do find it odd that people aren't attracted to any member of a particular race. It's strange to me that dark skin, for example, would be so off-putting that you wouldn't find a single black person attractive. My suspicion would be that there are social factors at play and it isn't just a case of unconnected physical preferences. It seems to much of a coincidence to me that afro hair, dark skin and 'certain facial features' are all apparently individually off-putting to some people.

How can you expect people to even know that though? How many black women are there? More than a billion I'd imagine. No one has seen them all to know if they don't find any of them attractive.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I do find it odd that people aren't attracted to any member of a particular race..

Okay, now point to the part where any significant number of people actually said that.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Im attracted to all races but I prefer darker women.

 

[Moral Panic]

What does that even mean? It doesn't matter whether you acknowledge anything or not, it is inherantly not racist.

You cannot divorce a person from a society or a culture, and the simple fact of living AROUND PEOPLE is going to cause you to have preferences. Hell, even not living around people will cause you to probably have preferences. Whether I acknowledge that this is the case or not, really has no effect on the end result here, so why is it racist in ANY scenario?

Two guys, who both like white women, one of which is a well educated lawyer and one of which is a redneck bumpkin.

One is eloquent enough to say "I like white women because of societal factors beyond my control, not because I inherantly dislike others for any specific reason"

One is simple as hell and simply says "I like white women because I just do"

One of these is racist and one is not? Give me a break. Knowing WHY you like something more than something else is completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the end result, it doesn't change the cause, and unless it makes you start acting shitty to other races, it certainly doesn't make you racist (and not finding them as attractive is NOT 'acting shitty' towards anyone).

The end result doesn't matter. Thinking "Black men are evil that's why there are so many in prison" and "Black men are victims of society and situation, that's why there are so many black men in prison" doesn't change the end result. But one of them makes you a racist, and the other one doesn't. You can't divorce society and culture, but you can choose whether to acknowledge it's role or not.

 

[HappyBivouac]

I think only a very naive person would define racism that way. How does paternalism fit into that defnition?

Well, paternalism is pretty shitty...

The end result doesn't matter. Thinking "Black men are evil that's why there are so many in prison" and "Black men are victims of society and situation, that's why there are so many black men in prison" doesn't change the end result. But one of them makes you a racist, and the other one doesn't. You can't divorce society and culture, but you can choose whether to acknowledge it's role or not.

So what are you insinuating, exactly? That because white males have a history of exploiting Asian women, then all white males who are attracted to Asian women must be racist and just trying to exploit them?

 

[Sneds]

How can you expect people to even know that though? How many black women are there? More than a billion I'd imagine. No one has seen them all to know if they don't find any of them attractive.

Right. And yet some people say that they're not attracted to black people.

Okay, now point to the part where any significant number of people actually said that.

In this thread or in the world? Here's one example:

I don't find their physical features attractive. In a lifetime of experiences with women this has rung true. I'm always prepared to be proven wrong.

Each time you say it's racist to claim you don't find physical traits of a race attractive, you are trying to claim such differences don't exist.

Well, paternalism is pretty shitty...

I agree. But many people don't. And many people don't see the racism in things like the white man's burden.

 

[Clott]

I find in incredible that some people can't understand that not liking a certain race does not imply an aggressive racist stance.

If I don't like tuna (which I do) it does not bind me to some cause to spread lies, and hate on tuna, I just don't want it in my mouth.

 

[Always-honest]

Right. And yet some people say that they're not attracted to black people.
.

yes, i think they mean they have a general preference. Or at least i hope. Cause there's bound to be an attractive lady out there for them somewhere.
Not that they HAVE to look for them. But i hope they don't dimiss the entire idea.

 

[jorma]

I think only a very naive person would define racism that way. How does paternalism fit into that defnition?

I haven't really defined either racism or paternalism here, i just objected to your definition that benign actions are (potentially) racist too. The word gets diluted and starts to lose meaning.

But i admit that i am very curious about where you're going with this "paternaislm" comparison..

 

[HappyBivouac]

Man, people can have all kinds of reasons for their preferences. I guess I just tend to hope for the best in people until proven otherwise. I don't really assume "probably a racist" every time I meet someone new.

 

[StuBurns]

Right. And yet some people say that they're not attracted to black people.

But they don't mean categorically, they're obviously not judging the people they haven't seen so far, that wouldn't make sense.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

But they don't mean categorically, they're obviously not judging the people they haven't seen so far, that wouldn't make sense.

...

Which is better

"Black women aren't attractive"

or

"I have never seen an attractive black woman"

 

[Meesh]

Well, I'm married, so ultimately seeing women who get me excited isn't really all that helpful anyway.

Married here as well, but I'll add that I really like women in general...I fully appreciate all kinds of hot women, doesn't matter what ethnic background. That said, I have to admit that I lean towards those of asian decent, can't be helped, Japanese, Korean, Chinese...asian girls are exotic

 

[trixx]

I prefer black women the most but I wouldn't mind going out with a girl of a different race.

For the most part, as long as she's cute and has a good personality it's whatever.

 

[HappyBivouac]

...

Which is better

"Black women aren't attractive"

or

"I have never seen an attractive black woman"

How about, "I have, thus far, within the limits of my own experience, not been personally attracted to a black woman"?

Not true in my case, for any "race" I can think of. But I wouldn't fault anyone for this.

 

[theignoramus]

Like I alluded to earlier, the "preferences" considered the most and least desirable in these kind of threads are usually a mirror reflection of the groups most celebrated and most maligned in media and on the social totem pole, so of course some of us will have some rather cynical reactions to that striking coincidence

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How about, "I have, thus far, within the limits of my own experience, not been personally attracted to a black woman"?

Not true in my case, for any "race" I can think of. But I wouldn't fault anyone for this.

That's just rephrasing it to sound less idiotic, but it's the same sentiment.

 

[Bold One]

yeah, you matured like a fine wine and we turned in to vinegar...



Well, you're taking it home, so all is well ;P.
I'm in a relationship for over 17 years myself. So all this talk is fine. But i'm staying right where i am anyway.

tad simplistic, but I spose we are the culmination of our experiences, a ubiquitous and ever-present media (that has distinctively defined a defacto set of characteristics and features as 'attractive') and our environments. when it comes to attraction, I guess from my lone perspective, I have found the whole concept of aesthetic preference to be somewhat of a moving target.

On any given day I can get on the London Underground and see a woman that changes my perspective on beauty.

don't take my previous post personally, I was speaking from my perspective. Though there is something to be said for chemical attraction, although I have not found any conclusive evidence personally for that.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Married here as well, but I'll add that I really like women in general...I fully appreciate all kinds of hot women, doesn't matter what ethnic background. That said, I have to admit that I lean towards those of asian decent, can't be helped, Japanese, Korean, Chinese...asian girls are exotic

See? Now we have a good example of when preferences CAN be a little racist. Exotifying someone because of his/her race is incredibly reductive and unfair to that person.

It's just that you need to understand most guys probably don't think like this.

 

[Sneds]

I haven't really defined either racism or paternalism here, i just objected to your definition that benign actions are (potentially) racist too. The word gets diluted and starts to lose meaning.

But i admit that i am very curious about where you're going with this "paternaislm" comparison..

Historically, racism has often manifested itself in white people's paternalistic attitudes towards other races, i.e. "these people can't help themselves so we need to intervene to help them".

 

[Cow Mengde]

I wish I hadn't forgotten to bookmark that tumblr story. Now would be the perfect time.

edit: Found it! http://the-unpopular-opinions.tumblr.com/post/78709502533/imagine-this-you-are-attracted-to-women-like-you

As long as you don't end up like this, OP, you'll be ok.

Ok, that's taking liking dinosaurs to a whole new level...

 

[StuBurns]

...

Which is better

"Black women aren't attractive"

or

"I have never seen an attractive black woman"

The second one is 'better', but I still think it could do with softening a bit to avoid upsetting people.

Personally, I don't care, despite the literal difference in those statements, they mean the same thing. People aren't saying they believe a certain race is incapable of being attractive, they mean they haven't so far been attracted to them.

 

[Soriku]

It appears, to me at least, that this "racial preference" is due to societal influences via the culture one lives in and the media on comes into contact with. I don't think it has anything to do with attractiveness or real "aesthetics" but rather having been conditioned to feel in certain ways. I don't think it's a coincidence that you find on forums about video games and anime that you have a high amount of people in relationships with asians or aspiring to.

I like the animus but Asian women are just alright to me for the most part.

Spoiler

Anime characters look white to me...also I have a preference for white women.

There are still hot ones though, like every race.

 

[Sneds]

But they don't mean categorically, they're obviously not judging the people they haven't seen so far, that wouldn't make sense.

I agree that doesn't make any sense but some people do mean catergorically. Not necessarily in this thread but in the wider world. The gaffer I quoted said he was "willing to be proven wrong" but I bet he never will.

 

[agrajag]

My preference is black girls, and my girlfriend is black. I'm white.

 

[hipbabboom]

It would be tougher to train yourself to see past race. Its much easier to allow your sexual drive to govern aspects of how you preserve people. Hopefully when it counts, your proper ethical judgment will kick in over your more based instincts. Practice not necessary.

 

[HappyBivouac]

That's just rephrasing it to sound less idiotic, but it's the same sentiment.

It's more than that. It shows that the individual speaking is aware of the subjectivity and limitations of his/her own experience with regard to attraction, and is not simply dismissing an entire race.

 

[TCRS]

can't say I have a preference. I've had crushes on black girls, white girls, asian, southeast asian. when you're forever alone, it doesn't really matter.

 

[dapperbandit]

can't say I have a preference. I've had crushes on black girls, white girls, asian, southeast asian. when you're forever alone, it doesn't matter.

you're not alone bro

*awkward hoverhand hug*

 

[Moral Panic]

Well, paternalism is pretty shitty...



So what are you insinuating, exactly? That because white males have a history of exploiting Asian women, then all white males who are attracted to Asian women must be racist and just trying to exploit them?

Am I that bad a writer? I don't think I ever claimed anything of the sort. I thought my explanations were pretty clear.

You can have your own preferences, but when you start trying to explain why it is "natural" or "right" or making excuses about certain races having "attitude"/behaviour or any other thinking that dismisses the society you live/have media from in as being the real main reason is when you open yourself up to very possibly being racist.

 

[StuBurns]

I agree that doesn't make any sense but some people do mean catergorically. Not necessarily in this thread but in the wider world. The gaffer I quoted said he was "willing to be proven wrong" but I bet he never will.

I think this is a particularly sensitive subject, and people need to be willing to cut other people a little more slack with their ability to articulate their stance than normally.

I assume this is the post you're referring to:

I don't find their physical features attractive. In a lifetime of experiences with women this has rung true. I'm always prepared to be proven wrong.

If you accept that most black women have distinctive physical characteristics that separate them from other races, why is it that those characteristics can't be fundamentally not attractive to the poster? Like I mentioned earlier, I had a white teacher who only dated black women because he just didn't like the lighter skin tones on people, that is a pretty odd concept, but it was his preference.

 

[Meesh]

See? Now we have a good example of when preferences CAN be a little racist. Exotifying someone because of his/her race is incredibly reductive and unfair to that person.

It's just that you need to understand most guys probably don't think like this.

I really don't see that as being racist, and implying I am is really quite offensive especially when you don't actually know me. It could be that my wording is poor? I'm not sure. In any case, like I said women of all backgrounds are thoroughly appreciated by myself, I just happen to gravitate towards the asian girls more.

 

[Moral Panic]

I think this is a particularly sensitive subject, and people need to be willing to cut other people a little more slack with their ability to articulate their stance than normally.

I assume this is the post you're referring to:


If you accept that most black women have distinctive physical characteristics that separate them from other races, why is it that those characteristics can't be fundamentally not attractive to the poster? Like I mentioned earlier, I had a white teacher who only dated black women because he just didn't like the lighter skin tones on people, that is a pretty odd concept, but it was his preference.

I don't accept that. Black women is an incredibly huge, genetically diverse group. The only characteristic you can be sure they they have in common is skin colour and even then there are huge variations.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Race is such a broad term. When you say Asian, you do realize that there are more to "asians" besides Japanese, Korean, and Chinese? Like the Vietnamese, Thai, Hmong, etc. What you really mean to say is that you prefer light skinned far-eastern Asian females. Because I'm gonna go on a limb and say you probably wouldn't think women from Thailand are prettier than those who are from Japan, correct me if I'm wrong though.

Also race =/= ethnicity. Does that mean a Japanese American woman is less prettier than a Japanese woman? How so? Is it because of the personalities that perceive is more desirable of one than the other?

I don't really think you thought this through or you tried to say

"I prefer women who look like my girlfriend over anyone else"

more than what it is, just a preference. You shouldn't get slack for it though. We have likes and dislikes. You can't make a person want to be attracted to every single type of person. That's 99.999999% impossible (not a scientific number)

Nnnnoooope. My girlfriend was born in the U.S., but both of her parents emigrated from the Philippines. She's much darker than me but I still get the same feeling from her as I do light-skinned Asians.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't accept that. Black women is an incredibly huge, genetically diverse group. The only characteristic you can be sure they they have in common is skin colour.

And what if he doesn't like the skin colour? Like my teacher Luke not liking the white skin colour despite being white?

 

[jorma]

Historically, racism has often manifested itself in white people's paternalistic attitudes towards other races, i.e. "these people can't help themselves so we need to intervene to help them".

Hmm. I have never heard of this, except perhaps as justifications for shitty behaviour. Do you have an example? I don't think it sounds benign in any way

 

[Always-honest]

tad simplistic, but I spose we are the culmination of our experiences, a ubiquitous and ever-present media (that has distinctively defined a defacto set of characteristics and features as 'attractive') and our environments. when it comes to attraction, I guess from my lone perspective, I have found the whole concept of aesthetic preference to be somewhat of a moving target.

On any given day I can get on the London Underground and see a woman that changes my perspective on beauty.

don't take my previous post personally, I was speaking from my perspective. Though there is something to be said for chemical attraction, although I have not found any conclusive evidence personally for that.

Like i said earlier: I've dated women of different nationalities and skincolour and i liked them and i thought they were attractive. Over the years my field of attraction became narrower. It just happened. I have lived in multicultural cities full of different nationalities, not that different from London.

And again, it's preference. There are still lots of attractive women everywhere. But if i were to choose from a lineup of a 100 people and my preference was in there, then i wouldn't have a hard time choosing. Maybe it's some kind of a fetish . nah, i don't think you could call it that.

People change. In your case, your taste in women whas become wider. In my case it didn't (though it was really wide when i was younger). But not because i'm a mountain hillbilly. It just changed.

 

[Petrie]

I don't accept that. Black women is an incredibly huge, genetically diverse group. The only characteristic you can be sure they they have in common is skin colour and even then there are huge variations.

And I don't find that skin color attractive. I don't even like particularly tan girls.

Keep up this idea that races don't have characteristics that define them though.

And what if he doesn't like the skin colour? Like my teacher Luke not liking the white skin colour despite being white?

I have to like it otherwise, racism. Obviously.

 

[Sneds]

I think this is a particularly sensitive subject, and people need to be willing to cut other people a little more slack with their ability to articulate their stance than normally.

I assume this is the post you're referring to:


If you accept that most black women have distinctive physical characteristics that separate them from other races, why is it that those characteristics can't be fundamentally not attractive to the poster? Like I mentioned earlier, I had a white teacher who only dated black women because he just didn't like the lighter skin tones on people, that is a pretty odd concept, but it was his preference.

Okay and, as I said in a previous post, I'm not sure if that's racist or not.

But earlier you were making a distinction between saying "I've yet to find a white person attractive" and "I could never find a white person attractive". Yet if you find certain characteristics, such as white skin, 'fundamentally not attractive' then it's fair to say that you won't find any white people attractive. As I said before, I find that unequivical stance odd whether it's in relation to light skin or dark skin.

Hmm. I have never heard of this, except perhaps as justifications for shitty behaviour. Do you have an example? I don't think it sounds benign in any way

A lot of people's charitable attitudes towards Africa stem from this sort of view. Missionaries have historically had this view. Anything relating to a 'civilising mission'. You may have seen films with a 'white saviour' character who saves the day for another ethnic group. There are many examples.

 

[Moral Panic]

And I don't find that skin color attractive. I don't even like particularly tan girls.

Keep up this idea that races don't have characteristics that define them though.

Because they don't. Scientists don't even like to use the word race, because it is pretty much a social construct. What you should refer to is ethnicity. There is no ethnicity called "black", or "white". Two white people can be more genetically different than a white and a non-white person.