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[Toxi]

It touches on the news in recent days that Lupita Nyong'o has been picked up to model a label. It was news because Lupita doesn't fit into the typical representation of black beauty that we see in this thread and in our media; she is dark skinned; she has nappy hair; she is cute; she is what few people would recognise as such.

Wow, didn't know about this.

 

[RM8]

She's Mexican, though ;D From my city, no less.

 

[Tenks]

I also cannot get into any girls with short hair. I'm a full fledged hairist.

 

[StuBurns]

She's Mexican, though ;D From my city, no less.

She's clearly of African decent.

I'm not sure I agree. Even using your imagined outcome, what would likely happen is that

1) White men get their pick of the bunch. Lazy, unaccomplished, obnoxious white men may have better chances than accomplished, hard working, kind hearted Indians, for instance.
2) Some women will indeed choose not to procreate if they don't find their "perfect match" which, to them, may mean a white male.

You're right of course, with the second point, I just mean to the degree it could be a serious concern worldwide. Obviously in Japan they have a very serious issue, and it really shouldn't be trivialized, that culture is going to doom itself, and I really don't pretend to be informed enough to understand why.

The first point, it's something I've always been bad about. Being a white male from England, worldwide socioeconomically I've been very gifted, just to be born is winning a colossal lottery, and to be white and English, I've really had all the advantages a person could ever reasonable dream of. It's easy (or maybe it's not, and that says more about me than the issue) to brush off concerns like the first point as I'd be one of the people who benefit from it.

I think it's one of those issues that because people ignore, I don't feel bad about. It's like smart phones being the result of some reason awful treatment of people collecting rare earth minerals. We all just try not to acknowledge it while counting down the days to Apple's next conference.

 

[Sneds]

So he prefers submissive women and you don't. Again, it just seems silly to be angry over someones preference. I don't like submissive women myself, or submissive people in general. But I'm not going to deride someone who does. They can like what they want and dislike what they want.

Hence different strokes for different folks. I simply don't see the need for deep psychoanalysis and Freudian explanations for someone being attracted to what they are attracted too. Unless they are pedophiles or some such, but that is a whole other ball game.

It's the assumption that all Asian women are submissive that's the problem.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I also cannot get into any girls with short hair. I'm a full fledged hairist.

You should go to a shrink and find out why. Did you have mom issues? Did she have short hair? That could be it?

This post is a joke for those with broken sarcasm detectors, a playful poke at those who think people with aesthetic preferences are somehow racists or have deep seeded issues.

It's the assumption that all Asian women are submissive that's the problem.

See, I wouldn't have derided that from the conversation he had with that guy. I can see how some would though.

 

[zoukka]

I can not imagine seeing some ethnicalities as unattractive. It's such a bizarre and alien concept to me that it automatically makes some alarm bells go off in my mind even though its normal I guess.

Just absolutely bizarre. There is beauty everywhere among humans.

 

[.GqueB.]

In less dramatic and politically fraught terms, I think the same thing happens everywhere. If you lived in some places, blackened teeth would be attractive. In other places, certain kinds of piercings are considered attractive, or filed teeth, or various accoutrements of all kinds, or being particularly fat or being particularly thin, or having different facial features. In our case, I think that facial features most commonly associated with white people are considered attractive, and when people say that they don't find X race attractive, they have in their head that ideal to which they are comparing a stereotyped image of whatever X is (and X is obviously going to come up short against that standard).

See that's where I get tripped up. Who are "we" in this case. "Our" case? Whose case?

When I hear someone mention "society" I immediately go to a place where the fact that women are photoshopped a certain way it shapes how we view beauty. Or when People's sexiest 100 list comes out it's full of skinny beautiful people. That to me is active. It's almost manipulative. That's why I have an issue with the idea that society shapes our preferences in some way. I don't buy it.

The first part of your post doesn't speak to the effect of society on an individual. That's environment. The reason that someone would be attracted to a person with black teeth is because they don't know otherwise. I don't think that's "society". I just feel like using that word hurts the conversation because it implies that we are all being manipulated and told what to like in some small (or large) way and, again, I don't buy that.

I'm not attracted to certain women that are considered "beautiful" by most standards. ScarJo and Sophia V do nothing for me. Did "society" fail me? Shouldn't I be attracted to these women? That's my disconnect. I just don't think it's so easy to determine how and why we are attracted to certain people and not others. It's not something we'll likely ever understand.

I just think people like what they like and ignore the rest. And it goes a bit deeper than this conversation suggests.

 

[Yado]

You should go to a shrink and find out why. Did you have mom issues? Did she have short hair? That could be it?

This post is a joke for those with broken sarcasm detectors, a playful poke at those who think people with aesthetic preferences are somehow racists or have deep seeded issues.

I'd like to think most people who don't like women with short hair have a reason other than "lol just bcuz"

 

[Brakke]

So he prefers submissive women and you don't. Again, it just seems silly to be angry over someones preference. I don't like submissive women myself, or submissive people in general. But I'm not going to deride someone who does. They can like what they want and dislike what they want.

Hence different strokes for different folks. I simply don't see the need for deep psychoanalysis and Freudian explanations for someone being attracted to what they are attracted too. Unless they are pedophiles or some such, but that is a whole other ball game.

Instead of a conversation or critical thought, let's just use platitudes to guide us. Cool.

 

[royalan]

You should go to a shrink and find out why. Did you have mom issues? Did she have short hair? That could be it?

This post is a joke for those with broken sarcasm detectors, a playful poke at those who think people with aesthetic preferences are somehow racists or have deep seeded issues.

Has anyone actually done this? From my perspective, what's causing the debate in this thread is the insistence that preference is in no way affected by history and what's represented by society and the media as being standards of beauty.

Also, was the bolded really necessary?

 

[real_slime]

I appreciate what royalan's been doing consistently calling out a lot of the illogical and defensive replies here. So many of them are just examples of the kind of attitude some of us are criticising, poorly trying to disguise themselves as reasonable replies. I totally agree with all he's been saying about how attraction is determined in part by cultural expectations, which are in turn determined by historical and economic processes. Like he's said, the existence of personal preferences in itself isn't the thing which ultimately makes you a lesser person here - some of that is decided for us before we can make those choices ourselves. The thing that is the real problem here, on an individual level, is that when you are confronted with the very real possibility that you are ultimately being played upon by processes far larger than yourself, you just snap your eyes shut and say 'i like what i like! to each their own!'. Nobody defines themselves entirely, we all live in the world and we all have flaws. You need to be able to call yourself out on your own bullshit.

The difference between people who do that, and people like me, is that I know I make choices about what kind of people I prefer based on less than ideal social circumstances. I don't beat myself up consistently for say, finding something about girls who come from rich families compelling (i'm a broke ass fucker). I can find something compelling about pretty much anything I don't understand first hand, because I want to ultimately be accepted by people who are different than I am. I do question myself though when I'm dating someone and if I actually appreciate that person, or if it's something about their social status that I'm attracted to and I'm just ignoring the rest of their personality. This goes right down to the level that sometimes I ask myself, am I just with this person because she's a woman and I want to be accepted by women, or do I actually appreciate them. It's about growing up, and finding more worth to other people than as band-aids for your own neurotic desires and weaknesses.

I think it's a strong indicator of a lazy and defensive mind when the only response a person has to the possibility they are following a script determined in part by society and in part by their own personal failings is 'it is what it is and it's fine I'M TOTALLY FINE'.

 

[breakfuss]

She's clearly of African decent..

lol, she always mentions that she was born there so I guess it's a matter of technicality.

 

[Tenks]

I'd like to think most people who don't like women with short hair have a reason other than "lol just bcuz"

Holy shit you think people need to be able to write out a 10 page essay on each personal opinion they hold? Even for things that are 100% subjective like beauty and attractiveness?

 

[Fafalada]

what would objectively be an 8/10 black girl (polling a random sample of reasonable guys) may appear to be a 6 to him, and vice versa.

"Objective" is a stretch here - you're getting a statistical average (assuming large enough sample) that is influenced by the same socio-media and other factors this thread has been discussing for the past 10 pages.
Though I agree with the overall point - I noted earlier in the thread that individual beauty standards can vary wildly from "objective" perception of the social average (and the latter is most likely biased towards majority ethnic groups - averages at play and all that).

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

So he prefers submissive women and you don't. Again, it just seems silly to be angry over someones preference. I don't like submissive women myself, or submissive people in general. But I'm not going to deride someone who does. They can like what they want and dislike what they want.

Hence different strokes for different folks. I simply don't see the need for deep psychoanalysis and Freudian explanations for someone being attracted to what they are attracted too. Unless they are pedophiles or some such, but that is a whole other ball game.

So basically it's okay for him to see Asian women as submissive and only see them as such because of preference? I pray no Asian women has to do him then if that's what he's going to expect.

 

[Sneds]

Holy shit you think people need to be able to write out a 10 page essay on each personal opinion they hold? Even for things that are 100% subjective like beauty and attractiveness?

There's nothing wrong with being self-reflective. It's healthy.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I'd like to think most people who don't like women with short hair have a reason other than "lol just bcuz"

Why? Maybe they just don't. It's a purely aesthetic preference, hence the joke. Come on guys cool off a bit and smile.

Holy shit you think people need to be able to write out a 10 page essay on each personal opinion they hold? Even for things that are 100% subjective like beauty and attractiveness?

It's amazing how subjective preference can make you a bigot on GAF isn't it?

 

[Ryu1999]

So basically it's okay for him to see Asian women as submissive and only see them as such because of preference? I pray no Asian women has to do him then if that's what he's going to expect.

The ironic thing is that a lot of Asian women have decided that won't date Asian men because they don't want to be submissive towards a man.

 

[Yado]

Holy shit you think people need to be able to write out a 10 page essay on each personal opinion they hold? Even for things that are 100% subjective like beauty and attractiveness?

lol why are you being so defensive? There doesn't have to be a deep rooted issue behind that particular preference. Is it normal for you to dislike things for no particular reason?

 

[ishibear]

I would imagine the dislike for women having short hair stems from the idea that short hair=not feminine. But that's a topic for another day, isn't it?

 

[Black-Wind]

So he prefers submissive women and you don't. Again, it just seems silly to be angry over someones preference. I don't like submissive women myself, or submissive people in general. But I'm not going to deride someone who does. They can like what they want and dislike what they want.

Hence different strokes for different folks. I simply don't see the need for deep psychoanalysis and Freudian explanations for someone being attracted to what they are attracted too. Unless they are pedophiles or some such, but that is a whole other ball game.

Uhhh, there's a few problems in this post.
1- Never said I liked or disliked anything. I truthfully don't know wut I like or dislike outside of not liking assholes.

2- Problem isn't that he likes Submissive women, it's that he thinks what make's Asian women prefect is this stereotype and generalization he has picked up from old Kung Fu movies.

3- Personally don't care who anyone is fucking as long as it's not an underage person and as long as it's consensual. Just saying that if you're fetishizing a racial stereotype then you may want to look at why that's the case.

 

[stn]

It happens. I'm white and I tend to "notice" good looking black girls and brown girls before others.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's fine to have aesthetic preferences; there are women some people find attractive that I don't, and vice versa.

The problem is when you make a statement like "I don't find race x attractive." You're either saying that all members of race x have the same features that you aren't attracted to, which is a foolish generalization and will be rightfully mocked, or you are saying that you don't find race x attractive because they are race x, which is foolish and will be rightfully mocked.

 

[royalan]

I appreciate what royalan's been doing consistently calling out a lot of the illogical and defensive replies here. So many of them are just examples of the kind of attitude some of us are criticising, poorly trying to disguise themselves as reasonable replies. I totally agree with all he's been saying about how attraction is determined in part by cultural expectations, which are in turn determined by historical and economic processes. Like he's said, the existence of personal preferences in itself isn't the thing which ultimately makes you a lesser person here - some of that is decided for us before we can make those choices ourselves. The thing that is the real problem here, on an individual level, is that when you are confronted with the very real possibility that you are ultimately being played upon by processes far larger than yourself, you just snap your eyes shut and say 'i like what i like! to each their own!'. Nobody defines themselves entirely, we all live in the world and we all have flaws. You need to be able to call yourself out on your own bullshit.

The difference between people who do that, and people like me, is that I know I make choices about what kind of people I prefer based on less than ideal social circumstances. I don't beat myself up consistently for say, finding something about girls who come from rich families compelling (i'm a broke ass fucker). I can find something compelling about pretty much anything I don't understand first hand, because I want to ultimately be accepted by people who are different than I am. I do question myself though when I'm dating someone and if I actually appreciate that person, or if it's something about their social status that I'm attracted to and I'm just ignoring the rest of their personality. This goes right down to the level that sometimes I ask myself, am I just with this person because she's a woman and I want to be accepted by women, or do I actually appreciate them. It's about growing up, and finding more worth to other people than as band-aids for your own neurotic desires and weaknesses.

I think it's a strong indicator of a lazy and defensive mind when the only response a person has to the possibility they are following a script determined in part by society and in part by their own personal failings is 'it is what it is and it's fine I'M TOTALLY FINE'.

This. This entire post.

 

[Bolivar]

I feel really bad for black women. They get no love and it's largely due to the lack of black women being portrayed as attractive in the media :/

 

[Shakala]

I love me some women with short hair!

 

[Sneds]

See, I wouldn't have derided that from the conversation he had with that guy. I can see how some would though.

If you ask someone why they're attracted to Asian women and they talk about submissiveness, I think it's fair to assume that the person you're talking to assumes that Asian women are generally particularly submissive.

 

[OrangeJulius]

Uhhh, there's a few problems in this post.
1- Never said I liked or disliked anything. I truthfully don't know wut I like or dislike outside of not liking assholes.

2- Problem isn't that he likes Submissive women, it's that he thinks what make's Asian women prefect is this stereotype and generalization he has picked up from old Kung Fu movies.

3- Personally don't care who anyone is fucking as long as it's not an underage person and as long as it's consensual. Just saying that if you're fetishizing a racial stereotype then you may want to look at why that's the case.

So the guy is ignorant in how he perceives Asian women. Seems like it's something you just kind of chuckle at, roll your eyes a bit and keep on with your day. The guy deserves your pity, not your derision. I guess we just have different ways of dealing with ignorance though.

I don't really care to go further down that rabbit hole. This thread has evolved into realms far deeper than subjective sexual attraction and I'm not sure how wiling I am to participate in the other sub discussions.

 

[ishibear]

The ironic thing is that a lot of Asian women have decided that won't date Asian men because they don't want to be submissive towards a man.

You sound like one of those guys on creepywhiteguys Tumblr. Really, this looks like one of those messages that get sent out all the time.

"Your men treat you wrong, let us white guys save you and you should like us more".

Hmmm....

 

[GrizzNKev]

This. This entire post.

I wholly disagree.

The difference isn't whether you can acknowledge your own "bullshit," but whether you're okay with things being the way they are.

I am fine with myself.

 

[richardhawk]

I feel really bad for black women. They get no love and it's largely due to the lack of black women being portrayed as attractive in the media :/

Send em this way. Dark skinned women in general are what I go after. Doesn't matter if they are black or Indian or what have you. I haven't had the best of luck with black chicks though since there seems to be a big racial problem between Mexicans and black people here in Los Angeles.

 

[breakfuss]

I feel really bad for black women. They get no love and it's largely due to the lack of black women being portrayed as attractive in the media :/

Which, ironically, likely plays some part in why I am especially attracted to them...

 

[Lindbergh]

I kinda want to see what sort of input folks like Suey Park and Michelle Malkin would deliver concerning this topic.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I also cannot get into any girls with short hair. I'm a full fledged hairist.

They have to be skinny IMO. I don't like thick girls with short hair.

 

[royalan]

I wholly disagree.

The difference isn't whether you can acknowledge your own "bullshit," but whether you're okay with things being the way they are.

I am fine with myself.

He addresses that in his second paragraph, you know.

 

[Trey]

Holy shit you think people need to be able to write out a 10 page essay on each personal opinion they hold? Even for things that are 100% subjective like beauty and attractiveness?

No, you don't explicitly need to write out justification. No one is forcing you into discussing your preferences. However, plenty of posts in this thread have pointed out that there is probably more to what someone finds attractive than "I like what I like." So, by not adding further context to your posts than "I don't like short hair," you leave it up to others to assume your reasoning.

 

[GrizzNKev]

He addresses that in his second paragraph, you know.

He attempts to invalidate it.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Sometimes I wonder if it's actually me that prefers this certain race or if it is a result of growing up surrounded exclusively by people of this race.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

You need to improve your reading comprehension.

I have always been talking about all of the generalizations in this thread and I made that pretty clear. I never compared a poster not liking dark skinned women to all black people being stupid.

I wrote: "I don't find black people attractive" is exactly the same as "Black people are stupid" Saying "I don't find black people attractive" is a generalization because all black people don't have whatever feature you may find unattractive unless of course it's specifically the fact that they're black that's unattractive to you.

My reading comprehension is fine. You said that saying that meant that the person thought all black people look the same and then called them racist for it. That's not even close to being true. There are instances where that is the case, but it's not always the case.

Maybe you shouldn't put your opinions in such broad terms if you don't want people to take issue with it.

 

[.GqueB.]

Wow, didn't know about this.

Have we forgotten about Alek Wek? She's been around since the dawn of time and is even further from what's considered typical.

 

[Parallax]

Send em this way. Dark skinned women in general are what I go after. Doesn't matter if they are black or Indian or what have you. I haven't had the best of luck with black chicks though since there seems to be a big racial problem between Mexicans and black people here in Los Angeles.

which really pisses me off.

 

[StuBurns]

I wonder what people mean when they say short hair. Normal short hair is fine, the buzzcut I find very unappealing on women.

It turns miraculously beautiful women like Natalie Portman, into young Mancunian smackhead men.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I wonder what people mean when they say short hair. Normal short hair is fine, the buzzcut I find very unappealing on women.

It turns miraculously beautiful women like Natalie Portman, into young Mancunian smackhead men.

I know right? How dare a women fly in the face of social expectations of what it's like to womanly and sexually attractive to men?

 

[Alchemy]

Oooh, this thread is gonna have some great pict...

Fuck.

 

[aly]

I feel really bad for black women. They get no love and it's largely due to the lack of black women being portrayed as attractive in the media :/

I can't help but wonder if that helps feed into the bitter black woman stereotype too. I'm not bitter, but I know many women who are and are always have to reassert the idea that black is beautiful, since no one else is saying that.

 

[StuBurns]

I know right? How dare a women fly in the face of social expectations of what it's like to womanly and sexually attractive to men?

Did I say I don't believe they should do it? No. I just don't think it's attractive. I'm pretty sure Natalie Portman won't lose sleep over me not fancying her with a buzzcut.

 

[Enzom21]

My reading comprehension is fine. You said that saying that meant that the person thought all black people look the same and then called them racist for it. That's not even close to being true. There are instances where that is the case, but it's not always the case.

Maybe you shouldn't put your opinions in such broad terms if you don't want people to take issue with it.

Saying "I don't find black people attractive." implies all black people look the same and that is racist. If you don't want to sound racist then don't make broad gerenalizations.
"I don't find woman with kinky hair attractive" isn't racist but "I don't like kinky hair so I'm not attracted to black women" is.
One implies all black woman have kinky hair and that's not true.

 

[Ryu1999]

You sound like one of those guys on creepywhiteguys Tumblr. Really, this looks like one of those messages that get sent out all the time.

"Your men treat you wrong, let us white guys save you and you should like us more".

Hmmm....

Lol I'm Asian and what I MEANT to say was that it was ironic that some Asian women don't date Asian men who want them to be submissive and then want to date white men thinking the grass is greener....when some of those white men are looking for a submissive Asian stereotype.

 

[OrangeJulius]

Did I say I don't believe they should do it? No. I just don't think it's attractive. I'm pretty sure Natalie Portman won't lose sleep over me not fancying her with a buzzcut.

That's it, I fucking quit. lol