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[mullet2000]

Interesting perspective, I can't say that's what I see at all when I look at KPOP (I'll admit I'm no fan of it, but I've absorbed a whooooole lot of it due to people I know being into it)

To be clear, I'm not saying it's not It's their entertainment and it is what they want to see. I'm also not saying it's their responsibility to dispel the stereotypes that foreigners have. However, for many foreigners that media is the only interaction with the other culture that that person has, and thus it can and will influence their perspective. I'm not saying what that culture likes is 'wrong' or anything, I'm just saying what I see out of it fits the stereotypes I see/hear quite well. And it also fits in with what I see my girlfriends family attempting to push at her! Clearly you feel differently, and that's fine. We don't have to agree!

 

[Infinite]

post

I do agree somewhat that it's rather problematic to examine an entirely different culture the lenses of your own and it doesn't really make sense to blame Japanese and Korean media for the stereotypes we have of their women over here. But let's not pretend they don't have their fair share of issues in this regard.

 

[HolyBaikal]

But let's not pretend they don't have their fair share of issues in this regard.

Oh, there are definitely a lot of problems in every country and in every countries' media and entertainment. And there are definitely a lot of things that bother me.

For instance, in South Korea, fat shaming and standards of needing to be thin are even worse than America. And the "oppa" and "aegyo" phenomenon has a lot of problems. Like for instance it reflects an idealization of cute, dependent, younger women, and older men.

And there is a lot of discussion to have about the negative gender politics in Japanese dramas, Korean dramas, Japanese music, Korean music, anime, manga, Korean and Japanese video games, and so forth.

It just bothers me when I hear something go watch Japanese visual kei videos and complain that they're reinforcing stereotypes of Asian men as effeminate, and should be more masculine. Or that Hello Kitty is trying to send the message that Asian women are submissive because they don't draw a mouth on her. Or that Kyary is a problem because she reinforces the stereotype of Asian women being into cute things. To me these are wildly inappropriate ethnocentric or some kind of bad interpretations of another culture.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

HolyBai, thank you for saying all these posts. I really appreciate it. I couldn't find the words myself, and was having a difficult time feeling good about my asian female image after all that stereotyping barrage about flatness or tiny-eyes-ness, etc.

So, yeah, just wanna say, thanks.

 

[Infinite]

Oh, there are definitely a lot of problems in every country and in every countries' media and entertainment. And there are definitely a lot of things that bother me.

For instance, in South Korea, fat shaming and standards of needing to be thin are even worse than America. And the "oppa" and "aegyo" phenomenon has a lot of problems. Like for instance it reflects an idealization of cute, dependent, younger women, and older men.

And there is a lot of discussion to have about the negative gender politics in Japanese dramas, Korean dramas, Japanese music, Korean music, anime, manga, Korean and Japanese video games, and so forth.

It just bothers me when I hear something go watch Japanese visual kei videos and complain that they're reinforcing stereotypes of Asian men as effeminate, and should be more masculine. Or that Hello Kitty is trying to send the message that Asian women are submissive because they don't draw a mouth on her. Or that Kyary is a problem because she reinforces the stereotype of Asian women being into cute things. To me these are wildly inappropriate ethnocentric or some kind of bad interpretations of another culture.

No like I said in my prior post I don't disagree. It's literally ridiculous to blame Japanese media for stereotypes of them found in the west because we aren't exposed to Japanese media for it to have an impact on how we perceive them.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I really don't like it when people say negative things about Korean and Japanese entertainment that they're reinforcing stereotypes. To me it just seems like an intolerance for the entertainment and media of another culture

But, apart from anime, thats quite true.
Remember Hard Gay?

Or a lot of jokes in Manzai and the portrayal of black characters on japanese TV shows.
Another easy one is the portrayal of chinese characters on japanese TV. Always wearing some chinese dress, have bums in their hair and speak broken japanese with a -de aru or -de arimasu.
Vice versa the same. Japanese are either the brutal people from WW2 or some joke-characters.

I really would like to defend japanese and taiwan/chinese TV but seriously. When you really watch those shows, whether its Korean, Taiwanese or a japanese Show, you really see they are reinforcing the stereotypes of different human beings far more than you will ever see it in the West.

 

[HolyBaikal]

HolyBai, thank you for saying all these posts. I really appreciate it. I couldn't find the words myself, and was having a difficult time feeling good about my asian female image after all that stereotyping barrage about flatness or tiny-eyes-ness, etc.

So, yeah, just wanna say, thanks.

B-Before I say anything. Was that sarcasm?

I really would like to defend japanese and taiwan/chinese TV but seriously. When you really watch those shows, whether its Korean, Taiwanese or a japanese Show, you really see they are reinforcing the stereotypes of different human beings far more than you will ever see it in the West.

You're right, East Asian media definitely contain stereotypes and a lot of other problems.

I just don't like people blaming East Asian entertainment for stereotypes about East Asians.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

no no : O

im being serioussss. i was typing up some replies but they all came out wrong. i dont want to bring digression to the topic at hand, but yeah, some of the replies in this thread had been difficult to read. unfortunately, i fall into the flat-chested proportions type of bodies and although i personally enjoy my physique, hearing how other people mocked it as borderline not-real-woman-body was ;__;

so yes, i was being genuine : >


but, um, carry on. not about me, etc etc.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

I just don't like people blaming East Asian entertainment for stereotypes about East Asians.

It depends. I would say KPop has had their share of fault of how western people see at least korean people. Not meaning their personality, but their (fake) bodies and faces.

 

[Infinite]

It depends. I would say KPop has had their share of fault of how western people see at least korean people. Not meaning their personality, but their (fake) bodies and faces.

Not quite. kpop isn't widespread at all in western media to have that influence

 

[HolyBaikal]

no no : O

im being serioussss. i was typing up some replies but they all came out wrong. i dont want to bring digression to the topic at hand, but yeah, some of the replies in this thread had been difficult to read. unfortunately, i fall into the flat-chested proportions type of bodies and although i personally enjoy my physique, hearing how other people mocked it as borderline not-real-woman-body was ;__;

so yes, i was being genuine : >


but, um, carry on. not about me, etc etc.

Oh, well thank you! That makes me feel good! I rarely feel good in a subject as sensitive such as this. So that was really nice.

I'm glad that you're not offended or upset with anything I said. I feel very self conscious in topics like this. And I'm often very afraid of looking like a racist fetishist and someone who is contributing to oppressive attitudes.

And yes, that post by dante was pretty terrible. I assume that's why they were banned.
I don't understand why people think it's a good idea to degrade someone's race based upon stereotypes of what body type they have. I understand taking problem and issue with the way that people often fetishize race and stereotype Asian women as submissive or be closed minded or dehumanizing. But then criticizing people who are attracted to Asian women by stereotyping and degrading Asian women is also horrible.

I don't understand how some people think they have a moral high ground when they attack racial preferences, and then turn around and say awful racist and degrading things. It's not only racist and stereotyping, but it's also body policing. Women come in all shapes and sizes, and who is to say that one type is any less or more valid than any other?

Anyway, thank you again!

 

[MogCakes]

Cultural bias. If it exists then it must be quantifiable. There has to be a point where in one can clearly parse it from other factors.

Are you saying that ideas not presented in a quantified state are invalid? Because that's ludicrous. Cultural bias most certainly exists in this context, measuring it is another matter.

All I see is a lot of nebulous extrapolation around colour framed from an atypical US perspective, but with nothing pertaining to the impact of form. The rules regarding what people of all cultures find attractive are largely universal (near symmetry being a key element.). Does skin colour play a role? Yes, but again on the whole according to anthropologists it's common to all cultures. Which kind of flies in the face of the racism angle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness

How does nothing in Mumei's post pertain to form? Are you saying certain body forms are typical of each race? Nobody is saying instinct doesn't play a role in attraction - those are universal. You're putting forward that any influence by society is null or that it doesn't exist.

Personally I find the idea of 'I like Asian women' (for example) both limiting and also reductive. It's like a barrier to seeing the person as equal Vs construct, and that's just dysfunctional.

It's important to examine first why someone prefers a certain ethnicity over others or is attracted to more so than others. It's the reasons behind it that we should look for. To quote Inception, we need to go deeper. Also, it's key to recognize that a race of people are not homogenous in any respect, so saying 'I like Asian women more than other women because X and Y' for example is painting billions of people with a broad brush. In this respect I think we both agree.

Oh, well thank you! That makes me feel good! I rarely feel good in a subject as sensitive such as this. So that was really nice.

I'm glad that you're not offended or upset with anything I said. I feel very self conscious in topics like this. And I'm often very afraid of looking like a racist fetishist and someone who is contributing to oppressive attitudes.

There's a big difference between finding a type of person attractive and stereotyping them for their race. You're obviously very cognizant of that, you shouldn't feel bad. The current discussion going on is somewhat of a tangent of the original topic anyhow. Everyone has preferences, so long as we know that our preferences don't stem from unhealthy attitudes everything is good.

 

[mullet2000]

Not quite. kpop isn't widespread at all in western media to have that influence

Hmmm I don't know about that. I mean, anecdotal evidence, but I know a LOT of people that are into KPOP. It's pretty big amongst college aged people right now from what I can tell.

 

[Infinite]

Hmmm I don't know about that. I mean, anecdotal evidence, but I know a LOT of people that are into KPOP. It's pretty big amongst college aged people right now from what I can tell.

anecdotal evidence indeed. kpop isn't mainstream over here; kpop idols aren't household names. Even then kpop is just one facet of Korean culture.

 

[npfpof]

Really, I don't find myself really having a racial preferences, or much of one, that I think.

But I am attracted to a lot of physical features which are associated with certain "races" that don't really exist. And some more than others. Which leads me to wondering if I have racial preferences and am being racist. According to what some people are saying, I'm not actually sure, though. As some people would simply say they're only racial stereotypes.

I'm just attracted to cuteness and androgyny in terms of physical appearance more than anything. But it does so happen that a lot of those things are associated with certain "races".

I think that partly these subjects are so difficult because it's so confusing. I wonder sometimes if I have racial preferences and worry that they are racist and unhealthy to have, not because I think I have racial preferences, but because I feel like other people would find the things I find attractive to be culturally racial preferences.

Like, I think that single eyelids attractive. And that is associated with Asian people. Definitely not all Asian people have this, and many black and white people have this. I don't know where this comes from, it could be related to the fact I enjoy a lot of East Asian entertainment. I would blame East Asian media a lot more than American media. I haven't even watched much American entertainment in over 10 years. I watch a few things like My Little Pony, but not much else.

I do worry that it's racist though. But I have a hard time changing things like that about myself. And trying to see it as a flaw in myself and trying to change it both hasn't worked, and has only led me to being depressed. It's good to try to not be racist but I don't think it's worth being miserable about. And I have very bad memories of this subject because of that.

And whether or not they're stereotypes, I think that people would see my attraction to things like single eyelids, flat facial features, round and flat noses, to be racial preferences, and perhaps racist, whether I consider them to be or not.

I happen to just be attracted to cute faces. But a lot of those features happen to be associated with certain races and are considered a racial preference I think, whether or not they are stereotypes and regardless of the fact that race isn't really real. I like round faces, flat facial features, round, flat noses, and single eyelids. And those are all associated with certain races.

In any case, I'm just attracted to cute faces and androgynous bodies. And I just want to do that without being racist.


By the way, I really don't like it when people stereotype East Asian women as being flat chested or not curvaceous, and black women as curvaceous. I think it's completely a stereotype and not true. And not healthy.

There is some truth to most stereotypes. Yes, I can say this even as a black man. Although I havent heard the flat chested asian one before though. I do think there are physical attributes peoples bodies have depending on what there ethnicity is though. I think not seeing that is ridiculous

 

[mullet2000]

anecdotal evidence indeed. kpop isn't mainstream over here; kpop idols aren't household names. Even then kpop is just one facet of Korean culture.

Sure, I'm not saying they're household name popular. But they're popular enough to have influence on a fair number of people, however. But yeah they're totally only one fecet, but i'd probably say they're the facet with the largest outside influence.

To be clear I'm not saying that like, KPOP is THE reason for Asian stereotypes. Just an aspect of it.

 

[Infinite]

Sure, I'm not saying they're household name popular. But they're popular enough to have influence on a fair number of people, however. But yeah they're totally only one fecet, but i'd probably say they're the facet with the largest outside influence.

To be clear I'm not saying that like, KPOP is THE reason for Asian stereotypes. Just an aspect of it.

If it played any role at all it would be an extremely small one. especially when you think about how long kpop groups like snsd been around versus how long these stereotypes been a thing.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Colored girls > white girls.

Undisputed scientific fact.

Unless she's a red head and SUPER pale.

All hail the Truth.

 

[GorillaJu]

Errr as someone who has lived in multiple Asian countries I can only offer my experience but from what I've seen Asian girls are far less curvy than white or black girls, with smaller breasts and narrower shoulders and hips. They also have shorter legs and arms and longer torsos.

Any woman whose gone shopping in Japan can attest to the differences in how clothing is cut when it's designed for a Japanese body. It's not a negative "stereotype" it's just one of many physiological differences between races. The upside in my experience has been that Asian girls' breasts are more sensitive to stimulation. It's a very nice upside indeed.

 

[mullet2000]

Errr as someone who has lived in multiple Asian countries I can only offer my experience but from what I've seen Asian girls are far less curvy than white or black girls, with smaller breasts and narrower shoulders and hips. They also have shorter legs and arms and longer torsos.

Any woman whose gone shopping in Japan can attest to the differences in how clothing is cut when it's designed for a Japanese body. It's not a negative "stereotype" it's just one of many physiological differences between races. The upside in my experience has been that Asian girls' breasts are more sensitive to stimulation. It's a very nice upside indeed.

Okay I've never stopped and thought about this before but now that I think about this has also been my experience.

Is there something to this? Hmmm...

 

[royalan]

Okay I've never stopped and thought about this before but now that I think about this has also been my experience.

Is there something to this? Hmmm...

Have you stimulated the breasts of a large enough sample of girls across multiple ethnicities to even begin to make this observation? Or are you basing this on porn you've watched and the few Asian girls you may have been with?

 

[mullet2000]

Have you stimulated the breasts of a large enough sample of girls across multiple ethnicities to even begin to make this observation? Or are you basing this on porn you've watched and the few Asian girls you may have been with?

Whoa whoa whoa, no need to jump to insults man.

I've been with a number of different girls of three ethnic groups. Chinese is one of those groups. My experience was similar to what that other guy said.

Obviously a small sample size, I was just surprised that our experiences lined up. Could easily be coincidence too.

 

[royalan]

Whoa whoa whoa, no need to jump to insults man.

I've been with a number of different girls of three ethnic groups. Chinese is one of those groups. My experience was similar to what that other guy said.

Obviously a small sample size, I was just surprised that our experiences lined up. Could easily be coincidence.

No insult there, just asking you a serious question. And maybe you should think about these observations and consider the fact that a lot of Asian women feel oversexualized by western society.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

For me it's the other way around. I only seem to have any success with Asian girls, as if only Asian girls like me.

 

[mullet2000]

No insult there, just asking you a serious question. And maybe you should think about these observations and consider the fact that a lot of Asian women feel oversexualized by western society.

Okay.

And okay, I'm well aware of that. I don't think responding to his comment is anyway perpetuating oversexualization of Asians if it's something we both actually experienced. He could have said a number of other things about other ethnicities and if they lined up I would have commented too.

I appreciate what you're trying to do here but I think you're over-reaching just a tad. Maybe it was a dumb comment to make about such a small sample size (two peoples' experience) but I don't see how making a comment of "huh that's my experience too" is bad if it really did line up.

 

[Reeks]

Crazy offensive stuff in here.

In response to the OP, yeah, I think it's weird. I may be misinterpreting and this may not be the case, but it seems kinda like a fetishization of a group of people. Too much?

 

[RedNumberFive]

I had a preference for Asian girls, then I married one. Now it's French girls.

Dat accent.

 

[SlipperySlope]

Everybody has preferences. Nothing to be ashamed about.