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[Boken]

Maybe Riot needs to take some of the Icefrog school of balance and buff the other spells if no one is taking them.

That's called power creep and then everything is op.

ironic cos they just did that

Power creep ™

get wrekt archie

the real problem is that nothing can beat a blink. as an ability it has so much flexibility and power, that no matter how they buff the other abilities, all that changes is what you take with flash.

a blink allows you to jump obstacles (huge in dis game), dodge skillshots (huge in dis game), cut out cast animations (also huge in this game), engage, disengage

 

[Archie]

Maybe Riot needs to take some of the Icefrog school of balance and buff the other spells if no one is taking them.

Power creep ™

 

[TharpDaddy]

About time people started taking Teleport, are you still stuck with a 5 minute cooldown? The lack of easy early game movement is one of my least thing of LoL, it takes so long to go from bot T1 to top T1.

Teleport's cooldown is reduced massively now if you use it to teleport to a tower. It's used quite a bit more often now. I'd say the only one that is still uncommon is clairvoyance.

 

[FloatOn]

I love the idea of mobas but I'm too fucking casual for such things and would rather smash out that backlog of single player games.

 

[zkylon]

on paper it sounds weak, but it has so much potential compared to the other spells. its the fastest jump ability in the game, letting you dodge stuff if you have the speed for it, and has all these weird interactions with different spells, letting you pull off some powerful trix

yea, i'm the boss at ult flashing into nowhere with cass

also yea cv is not too good right now cos people duke it out a lot more so giving up a summoner spell leaves you naked for a fight. like ignite is another spell, heal is broken, exhaust reduces half the damage you deal, they're all too good to waste a spell in cv.

plus everyone has free wards now and if you manage to get 2 people in your team to buy wards and by the off chance your support uses his sightstone to do something more to adorn their inventory you're set.

 

[Hazaro]

Teleport's cooldown is reduced massively now if you use it to teleport to a tower. It's used quite a bit more often now. I'd say the only one that is still uncommon is clairvoyance.

About fucking time.

Seriously it's a free BoTs + ward TP. It's unfathomably good and I'm glad it's finally seeing use.

 

[Boken]

About fucking time.

Seriously it's a free BoTs + ward TP. It's unfathomably good and I'm glad it's finally seeing use.

would you rather a free dagon or a free bots???

 

[sixghost]

would you rather a free dagon or a free bots???

bots every time

 

[Karakand]

I don't like how in HoN the guy make the entire map "covered in water".

Yeah when they got to that skill in the release video I was like, "I played Night Stalker too," but it is HoN.

Maybe in HoN 5.0 there can be both weather and night/day cycles. Thought night vision was bad? Introducing rainstorm vision!

 

[Haly]

We pokemon now? We pokemon now.

We don't have a daylight hero yet.

 

[whyreggielie]

The latest hero in HoN (Riptide) has a skillset that fluctuates based on an environmental factor (like Night Stalker in DotA / Dota 2), but that environmental factor is water. The cool thing about this (to me at least) is that suddenly the fact that there's a silly river in the middle of the map actually has a meaningful (mechanical) relevance. Has any other MOBA given substantive qualities to its river like this?

League has Nidalee who increases movement speed in the brush (bushes). Rengar can also jump from brush to another champ if close enough.

 

[Drkirby]

That's called power creep and then everything is op.

You say that like its a bad thing.

 

[dimb]

We pokemon now? We pokemon now.

We don't have a daylight hero yet.

You can have Leona. I don't want her.

 

[Tabby]

The latest hero in HoN (Riptide) has a skillset that fluctuates based on an environmental factor (like Night Stalker in DotA / Dota 2), but that environmental factor is water. The cool thing about this (to me at least) is that suddenly the fact that there's a silly river in the middle of the map actually has a meaningful (mechanical) relevance. Has any other MOBA given substantive qualities to its river like this?

In Infinite Crisis there are environmental objects scattered through the map, you can use stolen powers to destroy and open up new paths or you can throw the cars at turrets and players.
Well Mecha Superman's kit is revolved around creating and manipulating environmental objects; you can use stolen powers to consume the objects to heal, gain move speed or you can use his kit to briefly knockup the enemy and deal damage.

Batman also gains extra attack armour, power armour and health regen while in a stealth pad (bushes).

 

[Karakand]

Thanks for the input from other MOBAs, but I was kinda thinking about rivers / functional equivalents of rivers exclusively. Guess Nidalee and Dash Rengar kinda fit that though since League's river is full of brush.

IC's environmental interactivity is pretty cool but probably too manic for something not based on comics. (For a comic property though it's great.)

We pokemon now? We pokemon now.

We don't have a daylight hero yet.

why isn't there a light history month?

reverse racist moba's smh

 

[Haly]

BRB posting on r/whitesupremacy

 

[The Technomancer]

Picking fun and goofy lanes is my favorite part in dota though ;_;

Tri mid has like a 100% winrate so far.

Best thing that happened recently was a Keeper of the Light mid rushing Dagon. He went like 18-3

 

[zkylon]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

is this some elaborate joke my argie mind can't understand

 

[Pureauthor]

The problem with the Daylight hero in Dota is that we already have a Nighttime hero.

If they're on opposite sides they're going to constantly hard counter each other.

If they're on the SAME side the two of them are going to spend the game trying to kill each other.

 

[Karakand]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

is this some elaborate joke my argie mind can't understand

it's like apollo-soyuz, but for moba's

 

[Haly]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

Well we can't have that, now can we?

 

[HiddenWings]

Well we can't have that, now can we?

Someday, I'll find out what the original text of this image is. Heroes of the Storm is releasing their two PAX-announced supports tomorrow, so it will probably be a bit more popular for a while.

 

[Sibylus]

We pokemon now? We pokemon now.

We don't have a daylight hero yet.

Treant was sorta like that.

And then they reworked Living Armour, ofc.

 

[NathanS]

So which one do I play?

The one where you have friends to play with. Mobas can have some painful communities, mostly due to the nature of their design. To ease the transition into playing these games - play with friends! It's always more fun playing together.​

And if that doesn't appear to be in the cards?​

 

[Boken]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

is this some elaborate joke my argie mind can't understand

we cant be mean to each other, all of gaming side is watching us

what will they think of the moba community if we're shitters

And if that doesn't appear to be in the cards?

then youre screwed. run while you still can
play the one where you have more gaf friends on?
play the one that looks better to you?

tbh, right now its either

lol, dota or smite - bokens unbiased analysis

lol:
-faster gameplay due to - direct control (no turn speed, long attack points/cast points) and lots of spells that require dodging/aiming
-biggest game in the world
-more streamlined and easier to understand than dota

dota:
-more systems to learn (complexity)
-newer graphics
-all heroes free

smite:
-3rd person, so if youre used to wsad movement but not mouse movement, this is good. makes u feel closer to the action
-lots of spells that require aiming
-smaller than the other two in community

 

[Hylian7]

Someday, I'll find out what the original text of this image is. Heroes of the Storm is releasing their two PAX-announced supports tomorrow, so it will probably be a bit more popular for a while.

Aka the wannabe Puck.

Facetiousness aside, I know Faerie Dragon was a WC3 unit first, but it didn't look quite like that one and it just squawked. Now "Brightwing" looks much more Puck-ish, and Puck deviated quite a bit from the WC3 unit. On top of that it talks in a mind of mischievous girly voice like Puck. I'm curious if it will play at all like Puck too.

 

[FACE]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

is this some elaborate joke my argie mind can't understand

I direct all my hostility towards my teammates, fuck those guys.

 

[Imperfected]

Well we can't have that, now can we?

Is that Edward Elric?

Anyway, I don't think it's that strange MOBA/ARTS/Lords Management players can all be civil to one another. We still have basically every other thread on GAF besides this one to give us our daily dose of vitriol, after all - just mention your game of choice in a general gaming thread and bask in the blind contempt and searing venom!

I think we're actually considered a rung or two below "bro gamers" at this point as far as the stages of hardcore gamer leprosy are concerned.

 

[NathanS]

Someday, I'll find out what the original text of this image is.

"A Very Pitiful Zero Saber Grows Timid"

 

[dimb]

Aka the wannabe Puck.

Facetiousness aside, I know Faerie Dragon was a WC3 unit first, but it didn't look quite like that one and it just squawked. Now "Brightwing" looks much more Puck-ish, and Puck deviated quite a bit from the WC3 unit. On top of that it talks in a mind of mischievous girly voice like Puck. I'm curious if it will play at all like Puck too.

http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Brightwing

Doesn't seem like it. They don't have the whole kit up there yet. It can also teleport to any ally on the map I think.

 

[zkylon]

Well we can't have that, now can we?

lol omg that picture is amazing

we cant be mean to each other, all of gaming side is watching us

what will they think of the moba community if we're shitters

i didn't know there was a moba community

i always thought it was like a game of thrones thing where everyone's awful and disgusting and we all just kill each other for no reason

 

[Imperfected]

When you play the Game of Throws, you win or you die.

... or you die and then later win after buying back.

 

[Valygar]

I started playing LoL but I got tired of the business model and some mechanics (bushes!).
I convinced my friends to switch to Dota 2, which I prefer by a long shot, but they found it too hardcore, unforgiving, and "random".
Now I'm back to playing LoL, because it's just better playing with friends. Also I like season 4 changes to wards and supports.

Now I discovered Smite and I love it! My casual friends also. It's just more fun and faster. However it does not scratch the same itch so I'll be playing both. In any case, I find it so much fun that I've already bought the Gods pack.

We also tried Strife... It's too similar to LoL though some changes are nice and make it a more casual experience. The issue we had was no MM at all, so we got stomped ridiculously twice and one we stomped. I also don't like the pets thing and specially creating, which is a bit pay to win.

 

[Karakand]

I think we're actually considered a rung or two below "bro gamers" at this point as far as the stages of hardcore gamer leprosy are concerned.

It's possible, yeah.

TBH I'm much more of an asshole in MOBAs than I ever was when I played "bro gamer" games.

 

[Dice]

people are being strangely nice in this thread

is this some elaborate joke my argie mind can't understand

well, I stashed most of my bitching somewhere else because this seemed like it was supposed to be a love-fest

 

[Drkirby]

http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Brightwing

Doesn't seem like it. They don't have the whole kit up there yet. It can also teleport to any ally on the map I think.

Phase Shift being on perma-autocast sounds annoying as fuck as a player.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Best thing that happened recently was a Keeper of the Light mid rushing Dagon. He went like 18-3

mid keeper is legit good http://dotabuff.com/matches/598171627

push push push push push win

http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Brightwing

Doesn't seem like it. They don't have the whole kit up there yet. It can also teleport to any ally on the map I think.

I dunno how you go from this:

to

its like they gave it to the people who made how to train your dragon and said give it a stupid looking face please

 

[dimb]

well, I stashed most of my bitching somewhere else because this seemed like it was supposed to be a love-fest

I don't know if I should address some of your issues here or not.

Last hitting is a really important component to the back and forth balance of laning, and it adds an element that forces players to focus on an extra element with their damage and attention so they can't just fight out and out. Last hitting also creates a necessary risk in the lane, and prevents people from just sitting under their tower absorbing gold and/or experience (which would be boring).

The shop is essential to the progression and flow of the game. Death timers are really long in MOBAs, and shopping is kind of a good way to keep you busy. One of the hardest parts of Heroes of the Storm is that when you die you just sit there, staring at a grey screen for up to a minute. Buying items after dying, when you return to base, or at critical moments is core to feeling like you'll have a chance at overcoming the enemy. It also creates opportunities for players to come back, because enemy heroes don't immediately cash in on the power spike of gold while out in the field.

Even though there is a meta, it's more possible to fun around than most people think and break it even in games that are rigid like League. Just looking back on the last ten games I played I feel like I was an essential component in how the game went and whether my team won or lost. Four games isn't really enough to get a good picture of the genre even if you did your research. Consider opening your heart to try some more, and don't pray to the false HotS idol.

 

[Dice]

Sorry but all I heard was "these things are necessary to maintain stupid bullshit." Honestly, I can't stand precisely the same things that make you love it. I understand exactly what they do and why, I just hate what that is that they do and why. I think it makes a terrible experience. I can't think of anything that more comprehensively turned me off so quickly and only more intensely as I played more.

The games I enjoy most of all are incredibly direct. Fighters, racers, old school FPS. They do have their own strategies and meta, but their heart is in immediate fierceness and direct consequences. I can appreciate the additional strategies that StarCraft brings, and how much pacing comes into play. However, it retains that immediate fierceness and direct consequence of performance in action. As I said, MOBAs are extremely indirect and passive-aggressive in comparison, probably the most passive-aggressive game design of any game type. It drives me nuts, and then the community is outright disgusting 80% of the time.

 

[SteveWinwood]

It can be very immediate and fierce. You just don't have the experience to be able to interpret the lanes and see that. Mid match ups are a super intense mix of strategy, skills, and reflexes. You should watch some pro streams sometime, it's crazy.

You attacked the ranged creep with your harrassing aoe spell on the opponent. It's immediately pushing as a consequence and he'll get the upper hand, or its a good thing if you wanted to go for a rune.

Also all the coordination that can happen in teamfights...

 

[Anbokr]

The games I enjoy most of all are incredibly direct. Fighters, racers, old school FPS. They do have their own strategies and meta, but their heart is in immediate fierceness and direct consequences. I can appreciate the additional strategies that StarCraft brings, and how much pacing comes into play. However, it retains that immediate fierceness and direct consequence of performance in action. As I said, MOBAs are extremely indirect and passive-aggressive in comparison, probably the most passive-aggressive game design of any game type. It drives me nuts, and then the community is outright disgusting 80% of the time.

That's the beauty of MOBAs (and when I say MOBAs, I actually mean DOTA 2 , it's about playstyle/hero choices. Some players are passive farmers, others are support roamers, and others lean towards mid-game gankers. You're not pigeon-holed into one style of play, but that's sometimes a difficult point to get across to someone with minimal play time. Just gotta jump in and play all the heroes and watch some competitive dota to get an idea of the different strategies/playstyles/heroes and forge your own identity within the game. It's like developing a writing style--not everyone is James Joyce (for better or worse), you read a bunch of shit, write a bunch, and develop your own peculiar style.

plz i already want to die just from reading this. i'm out until hots.

I've played a shit ton of MOBAs, and from what I've seen... HotS is the most limited, restrictive, and bland one out there, not sure if it's the dream you've been waiting for.

 

[Dice]

It's very immediate and fierce. You just don't have the experience to be able to interpret the lanes and see that. Mid match ups are a super intense mix of strategy, skills, and reflexes. You should watch some pro streams sometime, it's crazy.

You attacked the ranged creep with your harrassing aoe spell on the opponent. It's immediately pushing as a consequence and he'll get the upper hand, or its a good thing if you wanted to go for a rune.

Also all the coordination that can happen in teamfights...

plz i already want to die just from reading this. i'm out until hots.

 

[border]

I have been wanting to try a MOBA, since it makes me feel like an old man when an entirely new game genre is invented and I can't even be bothered to learn it.

That said, the common perception that MOBAs have an incredibly high learning curve and also have incredibly abusive and toxic player communities is a pretty big turn off.

I think I'm waiting on Heroes of the Storm to come out, since I trust Blizzard to simplify incredibly complex game mechanics while leaving the fun stuff in tact. I don't know though, since Hearthstone was my first attempt at a CCG and it still seemed pretty impenetrable to me.

 

[Haly]

It's okay, MOBAs aren't for everyone. Try out Bloodline Champions, which is what you want by the looks of your complaints.

No leveling.
No farming.
No lanes.
No mana.

Just skills you start spamming from 00:00.

Rounds take about 3-5 minutes, like CounterStrike.

 

[Granadier]

there's not enough fighting and name calling in this thread.

how are newbies supposed to know what to expect?

 

[Drkirby]

there's not enough fighting and name calling in this thread.

how are newbies supposed to know what to expect?

Ok ok, I'm on the case.

A League player and a Dota player walked into a bar.

Spoiler

ouch

.The Dota player states "Dota is by far the best game in the genre". The League player couldn't deny.

 

[SteveWinwood]

i get it

 

[Imperfected]

It can be very immediate and fierce. You just don't have the experience to be able to interpret the lanes and see that. Mid match ups are a super intense mix of strategy, skills, and reflexes. You should watch some pro streams sometime, it's crazy.

You attacked the ranged creep with your harrassing aoe spell on the opponent. It's immediately pushing as a consequence and he'll get the upper hand, or its a good thing if you wanted to go for a rune.

Also all the coordination that can happen in teamfights...

Eh, it's like trying to explain footsies and yomi in fighting games to someone who doesn't play them. Your description is super accurate and valid, but I don't think I've ever seen someone grock it from having it told to them.

And telling them they have to play 200 hours of DOTA2/SF4 and then they'll "get it" probably doesn't help, even if it's entirely true. People either value mastery as a component of game design or they don't, I guess.

 

[Boken]

I can appreciate the additional strategies that StarCraft brings, and how much pacing comes into play. However, it retains that immediate fierceness and direct consequence of performance in action.

plz i already want to die just from reading this. i'm out until hots.

i'm sorry dice but you sound incredibly biased. especially if you think starcraft is all about immediate fierceness and performance in action.

I have been wanting to try a MOBA, since it makes me feel like an old man when an entirely new game genre is invented and I can't even be bothered to learn it.

That said, the common perception that MOBAs have an incredibly high learning curve and also have incredibly abusive and toxic player communities is a pretty big turn off.

I think I'm waiting on Heroes of the Storm to come out, since I trust Blizzard to simplify incredibly complex game mechanics while leaving the fun stuff in tact. I don't know though, since Hearthstone was my first attempt at a CCG and it still seemed pretty impenetrable to me.

personally, i feel like hots has lost the moba 'heart' so why not try LoL, who already offers a streamlined moba experience?

 

[Granadier]

Ok ok, I'm on the case.

A League player and a Dota player walked into a bar.

Spoiler

ouch

.The Dota player states "Dota is by far the best game in the genre". The League player couldn't deny.

you sir, have made me laugh