Dear Girls Who Are (Finally) Ready To Date Fedoras: We Don't Want You Anymore, M'Lady

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God, this recent spate of relationship threads reminds me how I used to be several years ago. I was totally one of these guys. Glad I finally grew up. ;)
 
I think my problem with that is, I know quite a few people who will have a loooot of trouble finding someone without significant changes to who they are. Being themselves is why they're lonely. I don't think there's anything wrong with changing who you are, even if the reason is just to have more friends.

The world isn't fair. Sometimes who you are just isn't what others nearby find appealing. If you feel who you are isn't right, that you could improve yourself in certain aspects, minimize the flaws, then yeah, go for it. But if you truly like who you are and don't think you should have to alter yourself drastically to attract people, then you have to live with the consequences.

I'm not being cold or cruel. Life just kinda goes like that. It's a common trope that's regularly touched upon in media- have you ever watched Sherlock, Luther, etc?
 
I just woke up and already there's one of these threads on GAF.

I'm dying here. My coworkers are looking at me like I'm nuts cause I have a stupid shit-eating grin on my face as I try not to bust out laughing at this last page.

Damn you, all. DAMN YOU.

One? Today is a landmark day for the socially confused and angry, RS. And your coworkers think you're nuts anyway. It just goes with the territory.


Pls respond

Yep. That one is gaining some serious ground today.
 
Um.

What? Where does what I'm attracted to come into this?

People are attracted to a vast array of qualities. If you are trying to attract someone who is not attracted to your particular subset of traits, faking what they might like makes for a really shitty relationship.

So yes, be yourself, and you'll attract the type of people you are compatible with.

pablum followed by contradiction said:
Be yourself, be nice because that's literally the least you can do, and don't let people walk all over you.

"Be yourself, but also be nice and don't be a pushover" because those are qualities you - and, you assume, a majority of women - find attractive in people. You're not really saying be yourself. You're saying be attractive according to that standard you've set. I agree with you; a guy should strive to be an attractive person if he wants to be successful with women.

"Be yourself," on the other hand, means nothing and is terrible advice.
 
"Be yourself, but also be nice and don't be a pushover" because those are qualities you - and, you assume, a majority of women - find attractive in people. You're not really saying be yourself. You're saying be attractive according to that standard you've set. I agree with you; a guy should strive to be an attractive person if he wants to be successful with women.

"Be yourself," on the other hand, means nothing and is terrible advice.

No. "Be yourself" is advice saying you shouldn't hide what you like and fake your interests.

Kindness and respect should be standard for everyone and are things that should be worked on if you're not exhibiting them.
 
Threads like these just serve to confuse me and make me even more hesitant to try dating at some point. My first love was a girl I met the first day of high school ( not on that day though lol) and our relationship including the eventual marriage lasted just over 10 years. Being in a lesbian relationship was a bigger hardship due to other's reactions than the awkward teenage dating phase was.

I haven't tried dating since the divorce and I have no idea what the hell proper dating etiquette is these days. I don't know what people expect of each other and what behaviors or phrases have secret messages attached. Added to that is the fact that while I have an interest in men as well as women I have even less of an idea of how to interact with them in that sort of setting.

Why the hell is everything so complicated? How am I supposed to tell genuinely good people from "nice guys/girls"? How do you not give "confusing signals' and end up being the source of people's ire for unintentionally misleading them?
 
Put me in the camp that says "be yourself" is pretty useless, terrible advice. "Don't fake interests or skills you don't have in an attempt to falsely seem more attractive then you think you are" is just fine, as far as advice goes, but "be yourself" can just as easily mean "the problem is them, not you, so don't bother examining yourself or striving to improve since that would somehow be betraying your specialness"

So lets be specific when we give advice
 
Threads like these just serve to confuse me and make me even more hesitant to try dating at some point. My first love was a girl I met the first day of high school ( not on that day though lol) and our relationship including the eventual marriage lasted just over 10 years. Being in a lesbian relationship was a bigger hardship due to other's reactions than the awkward teenage dating phase was.

I haven't tried dating since the divorce and I have no idea what the hell proper dating etiquette is these days. I don't know what people expect of each other and what behaviors or phrases have secret messages attached. Added to that is the fact that while I have an interest in men as well as women I have even less of an idea of how to interact with them in that sort of setting.

Why the hell is everything so complicated? How am I supposed to tell genuinely good people from "nice guys/girls"? How do you not give "confusing signals' and end up being the source of people's ire for unintentionally misleading them?

The thing is, dating isn't inherently complicated. It becomes complicated when we load dating with our baggage, hang-ups, and crazy beliefs of what the opposite (or same) sex does and/or does not want. Dating becomes complicated when we stop approaching it from a genuine place.

Put me in the camp that says "be yourself" is pretty useless, terrible advice. "Don't fake interests or skills you don't have in an attempt to falsely seem more attractive then you think you are" is just fine, as far as advice goes, but "be yourself" can just as easily mean "the problem is them, not you, so don't bother examining yourself or striving to improve since that would somehow be betraying your specialness"

So lets be specific when we give advice

"Be yourself" is still some of the best advice. But you need to also be self-aware. You also need to accept the fact that being yourself isn't going to win everyone over. Some people just aren't going to be into you, despite your best efforts.
 
Is this a reference I'm not getting?

"In your twenties you barely gave me the time of day. Meanwhile you were jumping in bed with any guy with a neck tattoo or a prison record."

Please respond.
We're going to run that one into the ground. Again.
 
Why the hell is everything so complicated? How am I supposed to tell genuinely good people from "nice guys/girls"? How do you not give "confusing signals' and end up being the source of people's ire for unintentionally misleading them?

You just try, learn, and keep at it, until you don't give a fuck no mo. Take good notes, put them somewhere you can easily access and reference. Sometimes it's you, sometimes it's them. Sometimes it's the weather or the mood or this morning's horoscope skimmed in the paper. People are inherently complicated. Chaotic. Even more so when you place two or three together.

Okay I have no idea what I'm talking about, sorry.
 
that was a good read. i laughed. and then i become worried about these fine gentlemen. but then i laughed some more.



personal anecdata tiem!

i went out with someone once, a long time ago, and he was so smug about his financial security or something, and he took me to this fancy restaurant, and then when the bill came, i told him that i want to split it 50-50. his face dropped.

this thread reminds me of his facial expression. it was priceless.
 
Put me in the camp that says "be yourself" is pretty useless, terrible advice. "Don't fake interests or skills you don't have in an attempt to falsely seem more attractive then you think you are" is just fine, as far as advice goes, but "be yourself" can just as easily mean "the problem is them, not you, so don't bother examining yourself or striving to improve since that would somehow be betraying your specialness"

So lets be specific when we give advice

Maybe we should be saying 'don't be fake', but seriously, be yourself is general because everyone has unique things and we can't be specific about shit unless we have a hidden camera watching all your social interactions, you know?

"Be yourself, but also be nice and don't be a pushover" because those are qualities you - and, you assume, a majority of women - find attractive in people. You're not really saying be yourself. You're saying be attractive according to that standard you've set. I agree with you; a guy should strive to be an attractive person if he wants to be successful with women.

"Be yourself," on the other hand, means nothing and is terrible advice.

I'm pretty sure being generally decent to others is the baseline of human interaction. Not letting people walk all over is also something that is generally considered to be a normal human trait.

I don't understand why you want to try and paint this as me trying to make people into what I'm attracted to.


I'm attracted to a lot of things. You don't actually know me, so you have no idea what I like or dislike in another person.
 
No. "Be yourself" is advice saying you shouldn't hide what you like and fake your interests.

Apparently it also means adding new interests that other people will find attractive. Be yourself! But also cook and rock climb because those are cool.

Seriously, y'all can be honest. It's not going to hurt you. It'll keep you from saying things like this:

Improving yourself doesn't mean changing who you are.
 
"the problem is them, not you, so don't bother examining yourself or striving to improve since that would somehow be betraying your specialness"

Examining yourself and striving to improve should usually be done in an introspective, "do it for yourself, not someone else" way - examining yourself in the context of pleasing someone else is not very productive or lasting.

Some people also need to be told "be yourself" because they're aiming for relationships with people they really aren't compatible with, but have somehow convinced themselves that's who they "need". Again, trying to mold yourself to fit the idea of a person you want to date is just doing a disservice to both people.
 
Maybe we should be saying 'don't be fake', but seriously, be yourself is general because everyone has unique things and we can't be specific about shit unless we have a hidden camera watching all your social interactions, you know?

I'm just saying that I think "don't be fake" has much less room for misinterpretation, willful or genuine. I've never liked that "be yourself" can carry connotations of "don't change", since I think changing is an incredibly important part of the human experience.
 
Examining yourself and striving to improve should usually be done in an introspective, "do it for yourself, not someone else" way - examining yourself in the context of pleasing someone else is not very productive or lasting.

Technically, the latter can lead to the former. You find someone great. Someone that has the qualities you look for in a friend/lover, the kind you yourself genuinely wished you had or more of. So you take the steps to change. Idealistic and a lot more complicated than what little I'm stating, but I'm sure it happens.
 
I'm just saying that I think "don't be fake" has much less room for misinterpretation, willful or genuine. I've never liked that "be yourself" can carry connotations of "don't change", since I think changing is an incredibly important part of the human experience.

How about this: be the best person you can be without betraying who you really are.
 
This basically amounts to:

"I paid you for sex why didn't you fuck me?"
Then
"You could have been my live in prostitute/nanny for my kids, don't you feel stupid now?"
 
Apparently it also means adding new interests that other people will find attractive. Be yourself! But also cook and rock climb because those are cool.

Seriously, y'all can be honest. It's not going to hurt you. It'll keep you from saying things like this:

You are kinda hilarious.

Are you trolling right now? I was using examples, not listing out shit I'm attracted to. I fucking hate rock climbing and have no interest in it thanks.

I'm being completely honest. Getting out in the world, interacting with people, and discovering new things that you like and enjoy isn't changing who you are.
 
"In your twenties you barely gave me the time of day. Meanwhile you were jumping in bed with any guy with a neck tattoo or a prison record."

Please respond.
We're going to run that one into the ground. Again.

Oh right, I see.

Amusingly, the only thing on my neck is a surgical scar from a biopsy operation over a decade ago.
Dating is difficult when you're trying to come to terms with both your gender and sexual identity surrounded by people who confuse cancer with STDs.
 
i have to wonder ...

if being nice to girls whom your interested in converts you into a neckbeard salty fedora wielder douchebag ...

then, should it expected for guys to treat them with no respect?
 
Apparently it also means adding new interests that other people will find attractive. Be yourself! But also cook and rock climb because those are cool.

Seriously, y'all can be honest. It's not going to hurt you. It'll keep you from saying things like this:

What are you talking about? Where did anyone say you HAD to cook or do rock climbing?

Improving yourself does not mean changing what you like. Improving yourself can be things like working on your health, self esteem, body, etc. Trying out new things is not changing yourself for someone. It's getting out there and experiencing new things. No one says you have to love everything you try but there's always the chance you will enjoy them.
 
Apparently it also means adding new interests that other people will find attractive. Be yourself! But also cook and rock climb because those are cool.

Seriously, y'all can be honest. It's not going to hurt you. It'll keep you from saying things like this:

...if you're not an active person maybe you should stop trying to date women who are attracted to active men?

I mean, it's just a thought.
 
i have to wonder ...

if being nice to girls whom your interested in converts you into a neckbeard salty fedora wielder douchebag ...

then, should it expected for guys to treat them with no respect?

The concern isn't respecting others, but respecting yourself.
 
How about this: be the best person you can be without betraying who you really are.

Or can we just stop beating around the bush: Be attractive. Here are things that most people find attractive...

You are kinda hilarious.

Are you trolling right now? I was using examples, not listing out shit I'm attracted to. I fucking hate rock climbing and have no interest in it thanks.

I'm being completely honest. Getting out in the world, interacting with people, and discovering new things that you like and enjoy isn't changing who you are.

I really can't figure out how you still don't understand that that is literally change.

But thanks I think I'm hilarious, too.

...if you're not an active person maybe you should stop trying to date women who are attracted to active men?

I mean, it's just a thought.

You're right. And pale shut-ins who live their lives through the internet should stop trying to date women who aren't into that. It'll eventually work out.
 
i have to wonder ...

if being nice to girls whom your interested in converts you into a neckbeard salty fedora wielder douchebag ...

then, should it expected for guys to treat them with no respect?

The point is treating sex like a layaway plan you can pay off in gifts and emotional favors isn't being nice.
 
Or can we just stop beating around the bush: Be attractive. Here are things that most people find attractive...

You have a very negative view of all of this.

If you like video games and you set out to be the best damn gamer there is, don't you think you'll attract women who like gamers? By being the best person you want to be, you'll eventually attract others who like that too.
 
Or can we just stop beating around the bush: Be attractive. Here are things that most people find attractive...



I really can't figure out how you still don't understand that that is literally change.

But thanks I think I'm hilarious, too.

I'll give you a clue:

The games you play don't define you as a person. Your favorite food doesn't define you as a person.

Branching out and discovering new interests isn't changing who you are as a person. It's literally adding to the things you like. That's it.

Let's see.

An asshole likes video games and drawing. He decides to go out and see if he likes rock climbing. He does!

Is he still an asshole?
 
You're right. And pale shut-ins who live their lives through the internet should stop trying to date women who aren't into that. It'll eventually work out.

Hey, I know pale shut-ins who are in relationships.

The point is, if you're not willing to improve in a certain area or learn something new, if you don't have that natural passion, stop expecting to get with people for whom those are attractive traits.
 
Oh right, I see.

Amusingly, the only thing on my neck is a surgical scar from a biopsy operation over a decade ago.
Dating is difficult when you're trying to come to terms with both your gender and sexual identity surrounded by people who confuse cancer with STDs.

I fucking bet it is, on a lighter note, have you tried telling them you're interested in rock climbing?
 
People who put others down are dicks, and fair exchange of courtesy is best, of course, but you want people to give you kudos for being a normal, decent human being...? It's a baseline, man. Not something you get extra points for.

I think the whole thing has gotten really dysfunctional on both sides, guys thinking that if they're nice to a girl that they're owed something, or thinking they can't be nice lest they be labeled as a "nice guy" and it goes the other way too. I'm a very nice guy in general and have more than once met with "Don't white knight me!" when I'm nice to someone. It's like just because I'm nice to someone they think I'm trying to get into their pants. Where honestly if I was trying to get in someone's pants I wouldn't be so nice to them. Oh well.
 
Hey, I know pale shut-ins who are in relationships.

The point is, if you're not willing to improve in a certain area or learn something new, if you don't have that natural passion, stop expecting to get with people for whom those are attractive traits.

This is where I think people come off on disliking the author quoted in the OP; it's the attitude to entitlement or expectation of a relationship being owed.
 
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