Introduction to MOBAs
- Thread starter SteveWinwood
- Start date
We dota nao!
Depends on who you're playing with. I usually play with a 5-stack and often I find myself wishing I was solo queueing instead...
Finally decided to give league a try, using the download time to try and figure out the whole rune and mastery thing.
Hmm, I feel obligated to fill out those little rating popups in dota 2. I barely give valve money and I've made more than I've spent selling drops and holiday stuff. The least I can do is give some feedback.
Speaking of feedback why the hell can't we see who commended us and what they wrote? I don't need an ego boost but I'd like to know who thought I displayed leadership and how.
Hmm, I feel obligated to fill out those little rating popups in dota 2. I barely give valve money and I've made more than I've spent selling drops and holiday stuff. The least I can do is give some feedback.
Speaking of feedback why the hell can't we see who commended us and what they wrote? I don't need an ego boost but I'd like to know who thought I displayed leadership and how.
So what type of hero/champion concept and/or abilities would you guys be interested in seeing?
Doesn't have to be a straight port, can also be just ideas in general.
Like for example, I'd like to see:
-A shark based hero/champion
-A hero that can change main attribute like power treads (also think Deoxys' various form: attack, defense, speed, etc) instead of the "switch between range/melee" transformation.
-An ability that creates a swarm of copies that you can control and are invisible while inside the swarm as long as they stay alive.
-A champion/hero that transforms into a monster when in a 1v1 situation (ex: if there's no hero/champion within an x radius).
-A passive where the longer the time since you last fought a hero/champion, the stronger you get and the longer you fight the weaker you get.
What about you guys?
Doesn't have to be a straight port, can also be just ideas in general.
Like for example, I'd like to see:
-A shark based hero/champion
-A hero that can change main attribute like power treads (also think Deoxys' various form: attack, defense, speed, etc) instead of the "switch between range/melee" transformation.
-An ability that creates a swarm of copies that you can control and are invisible while inside the swarm as long as they stay alive.
-A champion/hero that transforms into a monster when in a 1v1 situation (ex: if there's no hero/champion within an x radius).
-A passive where the longer the time since you last fought a hero/champion, the stronger you get and the longer you fight the weaker you get.
What about you guys?
Well it would probably be capped and the hero/champion would probably be played as a ganking jungler. You farm, you get your peak damage, you gank, you become weak, you go back to farming.
It would only be semi-passive play for the hero/champion with the passive since he/she/it would suck in sustained teamfights so he'd be horrible for siege and defending towers. Its like nightstalker's passive except it would probably not take 4 minutes to reach its peak and wouldn't last 4 minutes.
An idea I had a long time ago for League was a champ who tanked using its hitbox. Its trademark skill would allow it to jump onto an ally and prevent them being targeted/damaged, and jump onto an enemy to share all damage it takes (something like 50%). It would've had high defensive stats through its other skills, as well as some skill to push/pull teammates and enemies. The ult would allow its hero model to temporarily grow in size so that your team could hide inside it/behind it.
did riot ever fix that thing where you could basically sit chogath on top of teemo and teemo would be untargetable?
Thresh has a passive with somewhat this effect. While he has not used a regular attack for a while, it winds up and gets significant bonus damage on his next regular attack. He is' played as a support and the skill is useful for periodic harassing, but is not very efficient in extended trades.
Oh yes I'm aware of that (my most played support in lol). I'm talking in the sense of nightstalker's passive where he gets more movement speed and attack speed as well as longer spell debuff duration during the night.
After reaching peak buff, the buff would slowly degrade during a fight until it no longer gives any bonus.
I like how on of the ways Dota 2 makes Invis less powerful is making it so common.
There are 13 heroes with invis as part of their core skill set (3 of which can make other people invisible), 4 more that have invis units are part of their skills, 2 items that can turn you invisible, and a random spawning rune that makes people invisible. As you can imagine, the more invis a team has the more value you get out of invis detection, making things like having a bunch of invis on a team or stacking shadow blades not all that great (Alternatively the invis team stomps due to the other team not being good about getting up invis detection)
There are 13 heroes with invis as part of their core skill set (3 of which can make other people invisible), 4 more that have invis units are part of their skills, 2 items that can turn you invisible, and a random spawning rune that makes people invisible. As you can imagine, the more invis a team has the more value you get out of invis detection, making things like having a bunch of invis on a team or stacking shadow blades not all that great (Alternatively the invis team stomps due to the other team not being good about getting up invis detection)
I need to try this.
An invincible Teemo seems like the best thing that's ever graced this world.
TharpDaddy
Member
I'll give it a go!
Right. What's your Steam name?
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
i as well have 3 more epidemic keys to give out as well if anyone wants em
Don't forget the fade times and cooldowns (without taking in consideration cdr where applicable):
- Akali's Twillight Shroud stealth's her for 8 seconds in a 300 radius, has a 0.65 fade time and a 20s cd.
- Evelynn's Shadow Walk has no duration max, has a 6s cd, reveals her when within a 700 radius of a champ, can't seem to find fade time.
- Rengar's ult will stealth him after a 1s delay (3 if damaged by a champ) and lasts 12s (?) on a 70s cooldown.
- Shaco's Deceive will stealth him for 3.5s (no fade time is given so I'm assuming instant) and on an 11s cd after exiting stealth.
- Teemo's (seriously though, screw this guy) camouflage will stealth him after 2s and remains stealthed until he moves. He also gets 40% bonus AS upon exiting.
- Twitch's Ambush will stealth him for 8s after a delay of 1.25s (3 if damaged) and is on a 16s cd, he gets 20% ms while stealthed and 70% bonus AS upon exiting stealth.
- Vayne's Final Hour (she's based on Van Helsing you scrubs, not batman) stealths her for 1s on a 70s cd.
It usually doesn't last long enough to make people want to buy pink wards.
Also need to mention Bounty Hunter and Sladar's ults which gives true sight on the target for 20-30s.
Pink wards (and oracle's sweeper) are crucial when dealing with them on anything above a low-level game though, or their invisibility can be enough to win a fight or a lane.
You forgot Kha'zix but he has an ult similar to Vayne ult, no fade time.
TharpDaddy
Member
Tharp
This is similar to the new League of Legends champion Braum, being tested now. He has a giant shield that can let him jump to allies and protect them from damage.
Right, forgot about him. I feel like season 4 kinda nerfed counter play to invis though, no oracle, pink wards are visible so its easier to get rid of them and yeah sweeper's good too.
My point is just that most of these abilities don't last long enough to make people think "I need vision" except at higher levels, while those in dota last long enough to make people aware of those abilities (not sure if I make sense) and there's more counterplay to them like vision wards, dust, gem of true sight and two ults that give true sight. Not to mention longer silences and stun that allows you to keep that hero locked down so its easier to kill them.
Yes! NDA was lifted recently that's probably why you haven't heard about it.
Sent.
1 key left.
Yeah, you can't just drop a pink ward and forget about it like before in all cases, countering stealth must be done actively against many champs. Oracle sweeper is great, giving that oracle effect for a decent amount of time. It would be impossible to counter long duration invis like BH or Clinkz in League, which might be a reason that there are no such long duration invis.
Sr Kitsune
Member
TharpDaddy
Member
Going to give Dead Island a shot. Any interest in me streaming some gameplay?
What the fuck? Why?
TharpDaddy
Member
Game is crashing fairly constantly for me. It's... quite an odd game.
Part of their season 4 changes, also removed oracle's elixir I believe. To offset the limited amount of wards per player (each player can only place 3 max)
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
the horde mode is pretty fun for epidemic that is
Running fine for me.
It's an interesting game for sure.
Makes you question what makes a moba game a moba.
3 wards per player is entirely too much. In dota you get 4 wards max per team(starts at 2, they get replenished every 6 minutes and the shop caps at 4), and if they get dewarded, tough shit, you are blind for the next 6 minutes.
The dota solution is the way to go as far as wards go IMO. By separating truesight from vision it keeps the truesight ward from being inherently superior, and by limiting the number of stocked wards in the shop it ensures that a team will never be able to ward every objective on the map. Also the existence of an affordable item that negates warding
All that making pink wards visible(along with getting rid of oracle's) does it make it prohibitive to deward, because the enemy team will just come kill your vision ward as soon as you kill their stealth ward. Since vision wards are more expensive it is never a worthwhile economic trade to deward.
Dreams-Visions
Member
This Alliance Rox series is hella entertaining.
Yea, LoL decided to place great emphasis on wards throughout the game. In addition to whatever the number of wards champs on your team decide to buy, they all get access to a free shorter duration ward. Big surprise ganks don't happen very often in League anymore.
Yea, LoL decided to place great emphasis on wards throughout the game. In addition to whatever the number of wards champs on your team decide to buy, they all get access to a free shorter duration ward. Big surprise ganks don't happen very often in League anymore.
It's different though because of the way brush works in League.
I do agree there are far too many wards, it's making it even harder to gank people (it does give more protection to people in SoloQ though) on top of what feels like a low kill meta.
I miss having 4 wards at the start of the game
There is also no max to the number of wards you can have, but the shop will only carry a max of 4 at any time, if you don't buy them periodically the restock timer will just freeze. You could buy and save them, but its usually worth it to keep them up then hoard them.
There are right now 4 items with limited stock in dota. Observer Wards, Gem of True Sight, Flying Courier, and Smoke of Deceit. Wards take 6 minutes to restock, start at 1 set of 2 in stock, stock cap of 2, Gem takes 10 minutes to restock, starts at 1 and a cap of 1, Flying courier takes 4:30 seconds to restock, starts at 0 and caps at 1, and Smoke takes 12 minutes to restock, starts at 3 with a cap of 3.
The big one that usually get over looked is make sure to keep Smoke restocking. They are a really good consumable to bypass wards, but you can easily chug though all of them (Though in realitly most pubs will never touch the item). Some teams will actually buy gem before they want to start carrying it to keep it off cooldown, but this is very rare (Especially now that you can't just destroy them gem when it hits the ground)
Oh, thats another thing. Gem of Truesight is the Dota equivalent of Leauge's Oracle's Elixir. When you die with Gem though, you drop it on the ground, where anyone else can pick it up. You used to be able to just destroy it when it hit the ground, but it was changed about a year back where you can no longer just smash the thing.
Because the whole pink ward wars were stupid as crap.
The new ones take 5 hits regardless of your damage... so they can be risky to destroy in contested areas. Good offset.
Schweinehund
Member
The wards in league don't reveal a whole lot though, but enough to if you put them at key points like dragon and baron that you could easily see people attempting to do stuff.
Its really hard to gank people from jungle imo, there's only two possible routes and usually people ward one and don't overextend far enough from the other. You usually have better luck ganking mid as a jungler.
Its really hard to gank people from jungle imo, there's only two possible routes and usually people ward one and don't overextend far enough from the other. You usually have better luck ganking mid as a jungler.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Eh, they reveal plenty. More than enough to know if a gank is coming or otherwise observe enemy movements and make plans accordingly.
SteveWinwood
Member
man I didn't know gem had a stock and timer
ill take it as a compliment that i dont lose gems
ill take it as a compliment that i dont lose gems
It's okay, copper scum don't buy gem so it's probably never come up.
Wut?