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[Kokonoe]

I am a woman, and I've never really found out what it is exactly but I've been curious about it for a while. From doing some research on Google, it seems to be about equal rights for women, but one thing in particular has me trouble understanding it. I've seen the words "feminism is human rights and human rights are feminism", so I'm starting to see that perhaps the "femi" part of feminism isn't really that 'feminine' at all. However, when I look at gaming articles on feminism, or articles in-general, the comment section is usually full of hatred towards feminism and posts like the following:

You seem to be like many other "feminists" and chose not to live in the real world.
Women and men are not equal, whether you care to accept the reality and fact of the issue is not relevant.

I also see such a huge stigma as if feminism is bad, although when I read about it, it doesn't appear to be bad at all. So that leaves my question in the title of this thread, what exactly is feminism? why is there this stigma? and is there really any downsides to feminism?

I'd like to thank whom ever takes the time to respond to this, it may seem odd that I don't know but I'm hoping to learn with this thread. Thanks.

 

[redlemon]

The stigma thing is just kids shouting at kids on the internet.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Feminism is a can of worms.

 

[benjipwns]

Well, from what I read on an informative Reddit section that was linked in a recent thread here feminism is a man-hating plot to

benjipwns
Banned
(Today, 05:20 AM)

 

[Guess Who]

Feminism is the idea that no one should be discriminated against, marginalized, or dehumanized because of their gender. The "femi" part has started growing a bit antiquated as the idea has extended beyond women to cover all parts of the gender spectrum that are discriminated against, such as people who are transgendered, but the premise is the same.

 

[RELAYER]

Feminism has a history and different "waves".
It has meant different things at different times.
What it means today is being defined in the moment, like any living ideology.

Ostensibly it's about equality, in which case the word "Feminism" becomes somewhat of an ironic misnomer, which is undoubtedly a source of stigma, as is radical feminism.

 

[Juicy Bob]

The way I see it, human rights are about the idea that everyone is treated as equals no matter who they are, and feminism is simply the phenomenon of people attempting to address the issues that result in females not being treated as equals like they should.

 

[enzo_gt]

The stigma stems from extreme/radical (I forget which is the proper classification) feminism being the face of feminism in recent years and essentially drowning out forms of feminism that more rationally promote equality.

Internet huffers and puffers aren't really exposed to anything but if they're just reading top headlines on news sites/popular blogs/news aggregators.

 

[TUROK]

The stigma thing is just kids shouting at kids on the internet.

No, the stigma is pretty massive. Go out in the world and see what everyday people think of feminism (and I don't mean in a college campus). They equate it to radical feminism and the subjugation of men.

 

[Preemo]

in my experience, a word used as an excuse to feign offence, or maybe im confusing that with sexist.

 

[Kokonoe]

What exactly is a radical feminist?

Feminism is a can of worms.

Can you explain why that is exactly?

Feminism is the idea that no one should be discriminated against, marginalized, or dehumanized because of their gender. The "femi" part has started growing a bit antiquated as the idea has extended beyond women to cover all parts of the gender spectrum that are discriminated against, such as people who are transgendered, but the premise is the same.

I see. I do not see anything wrong with this as it is true, no one should be because of this.

 

[Iamwolfthing]

Feminism is the idea that no one should be discriminated against, marginalized, or dehumanized because of their gender. The "femi" part has started growing a bit antiquated as the idea has extended beyond women to cover all parts of the gender spectrum that are discriminated against, such as people who are transgendered, but the premise is the same.

That's not feminism, that's egalitarianism.

 

[Burger_Baron]

Basically it seeks gender equality between men and women. On homes, jobs, politics, and in general. But here comes the tricky part:

Feminism is mainly focused on women's issues, but author bell hooks and others have argued that, since feminism seeks gender equality, it must necessarily include men's liberation because men are also harmed by sexism and gender roles.

And sometimes, not always, but sometimes, feminists take it too far, seeing men as lesser people.

 

[Guess Who]

That's not feminism, that's egalitarianism.

They aren't unrelated ideas! But feminism is specifically about gender equality - it says nothing about racial equality, class equality, etc.

 

[RELAYER]

What exactly is a radical feminist?

Pro-matriarchy.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

What exactly is a radical feminist?

Truth to be told there are different things different people call radical feminism.


Most non-feminists see any feminist with a strong opinion as radical feminism from what I can tell. (I've seen people use "radical feminism" to describe feminists who simply believe that there's inequality that negatively affects women)

Within feminist circles themselves usually the term "radfem/radical feminism" seems to be used to describe gender essentialist feminists. a.k.a people who believe there is a clear divide between male/female (to the point where they often discriminate against transexual people.)

Burger_Baron's post is largely spot on, the name "feminism" is usually contrasted to what is considered a "patriarchal" society with the man as the head of the household.

The reason some definitions of feminism benefit men as well is because the "fem" part of the word is against patriachal structures, which has negative effects on both the social role of men & women, just in different ways.


Apologies if I didn't word everything perfectly. ^^;

 

[Infinite]

A person who believes in the social political and economic equality of the sexes.

 

[Moral Panic]

Feminism is about making things better for women. Pretty simple IMO.
The best way to find out what a movement is about is to look at it's results. Feminism has allowed women the right to vote, rights to equal pay etc.

 

[JohnDoe]

To answer your question, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie gives a pretty straightforward definition:
"Feminist: a person who believes in the social Political, and economic equality of the sexes"
edit: curse you, infinite!

Other posters have already posted the same thing, but it's only scratching the surface.

May I introduce you to the Girl-GAF Community?

The OP of that thread has a Feminism section with a lot of books and blogs. You're better off reading actual feminist literature than reading posts from a gaming community that mainly consists of dudes who won't even bother *really* researching feminism seriously.

 

[Pankratous]

Feminism is the idea that men and women should be totally equal. That is how it started at least, and is supposed to still be that way.

I'm a man, and I consider myself a feminist. The 'femi' part is outdated if you ask me.

The stigma you see surrounding feminism is because of the 'face' of feminism that gets media attention are typically extremists who say things like 'even consensual sex with a man is rape because society tricked the women into thinking she wanted it' etc. It's important people realise these are extremists though and are not representative of what it means to be a feminist.

Feminism is also hated because we live in a patriarchal society which far favours men, whether they realise it or not. It's easy to laugh at a cause that starts with femi when everything is run by men.

 

[ComputerMKII]

As long as feminism respects the principle of equality before the law (instead of advocating for 'positive' discrimination or interventionist policies) I don't mind it.

 

[Foshy]

They aren't unrelated ideas! But feminism is specifically about gender equality - it says nothing about racial equality, class equality, etc.

The "femi" part still throws some people off. Something like "genderequalism" (for lack of a better term) would be much better to get the point across.

idk I just think it needs a rebrand or something. I'm a big supporter of gender equality and I understand why it started out as "feminism", but I also get why people think it's confusing or why some males don't want to identify as "feminists" just because of the name.

 

[Marvel]

I get upset when my dick is called "Repulsive" by a Feminist.

;_;

 

[rudieboy77]

This topic has been popular on the internets lately. As for what it is, everyone has their own idea of what it is.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I get upset when my dick is called "Repulsive" by a Feminist.

;_;

Wouldn't you get upset if anyone called your ween repulsive?

 

[Rubbish King]

Feminism is a can of worms.

that's not feminism, you're thinking of a can of worms

 

[Marvel]

Wouldn't you get upset if anyone called your ween repulsive?

Yes, yes I would actually.

 

[RELAYER]

The reason some definitions of feminism benefit men as well is because the "fem" part of the word is against patriachal structures, which has negative effects on both the social role of men & women, just in different ways.

This idea highlights another point I'd like to bring into the discussion -

I think a lot of people have a problem with feminism because they equate absolute equality with the total dissolution of social roles, an outcome which many people are uncomfortable with and feel to be unnatural and a source of growing discontent.

 

[Transhuman]

what exactly is feminism? why is there this stigma? and is there really any downsides to feminism?

Feminism is essentially Egalitarianism but confined to gender inequality, there's a stigma because not everyone wants gender equality, and the only downside to feminism I've seen is fervent people with disgusting views claiming their detractors are misogynist for daring to disagree with them (which does not happen as often as the echo chamber would have you believe).

 

[Marvel]

Sexes should be equal but stop with the genitalia hatin' it's not called for.

 

[Jedeye Sniv]

Can you explain why that is exactly?

I think it's because there are almost as many definitions of feminism as there are feminists, and so most people would have a hard time defining it. I think as with any ideology there are moderate and radical elements, unfortunately it's the radicals who get coverage especially online, so many people will think it's this extreme man-hating worldview which isn't the case.

As the son of a right-on lefty single mother I feel the values of equality and respect are somewhat baked into me, and that's what I think feminism is, fighting back against hundreds of years of cultural shit that's been heaped onto women and trying to even the playing field a bit.

 

[Infinite]

A problem with modern feminism is intersectionality. A lot of black feminist describe themselves as womanist even because they feel the word feminist isn't inclusive to them. A lot of other people in intersecting minority groups feel similarly.

 

[orochi91]

I've never actually met a feminist. The internet makes them sound
unpleasant or something.

 

[JensenBeeswax]

Ball Maher's stand up bit on feminism might help. Keep in mind, it is comedy.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I think it's because there are almost as many definitions of feminism as there are feminists.

Far more than that actually, plenty people who aren't feminist like making up weird ass definitions nobody in their right mind supports.

 

[Hato-kun]

Feminism is the idea that no one should be discriminated against, marginalized, or dehumanized because of their gender. The "femi" part has started growing a bit antiquated as the idea has extended beyond women to cover all parts of the gender spectrum that are discriminated against, such as people who are transgendered, but the premise is the same.

Pretty much exactly this.

I find it pretty weird if people aren't feminist.

 

[Juicy Bob]

A problem with modern feminism is intersectionality. A lot of black feminist describe themselves as womanist even because they feel the word feminist isn't inclusive to them. A lot of other people in intersecting minority groups feel similarly.

This is true. For example, we have a popular 'feminist' writer in the UK in Caitlin Moran who has been known to casually use slurs about transgender women, which has alienated her from a considerable section of the wider feminist movement in Britain.

'Feminism' is by no means a homogenous group at all.

 

[SoCoRoBo]

That's not feminism, that's egalitarianism.

The continuous refrain that feminists should be concerned with egalitarianism is completely vapid. Egalitarianism is the goal, but feminism remains an excellent tool to uncover the more insidious forms of patriarchy that still pervade our society. True egalitarianism means more than equality before the law and it requires a critique of the existing power structures of society to even begin to envision what true egalitarianism might look like.

Honestly, I don't think any movement is held to such high standards, prone to being misrepresented and faced with such genuine hostility as feminism. It's not that much to ask that people be able to distinguish between valid critiques and crazy tumblr posts, and not focus on the latter as if it's representative of the movement.

 

[Newline]

What exactly is a radical feminist?

Pretty much this:

They equate it to radical feminism and the subjugation of men.

It's not just about women's equality but a complete overturning and reordering of a system that they believe has lead to them being oppressed. A system that has been created by men, and so they are sometimes seen as being on a 'warpath' to quell such men. It's a very touchy subject around some people and certainly comes from a very real and sensitive place, so I tend to take it quite seriously, even if it sometimes comes off as absurd.

It's quite alike to the fall of apartheid in south Africa. Black people couldn't just call for the equality of blacks and whites but turned to subjugation in order to gain that equality, in essence they turned the south african political system on its head.

 

[Tomohawk]

i think it maybe similar to why people shit on vegans. they feel like feminists are judging and looking down on them.

 

[perryfarrell]

It's basically the view that women should be able to vote, receive equal pay, and have other rights that men also have. So it's a no-brainer that every reasonable person should consider themselves a feminist.

No, the stigma is pretty massive. Go out in the world and see what everyday people think of feminism (and I don't mean in a college campus).

That's really only the case in the US. It is a result of the weird political scene in the US. Certain elements in the conservative movement have succeeded in creating this 'strawman' feminist. They encourage everyone to hate on this unreasonable boogeyman feminist that they came up with (Cf. the communist in the eyes the McCarthyist).

Wierd thing is, this has little resemblance to reality. If you ask these people critical of this 'feminism' to name any books or authors or texts that they see as definitive of this movement, they have no friggin clue. It's a completely made-up enemy.

If you ask, "Do you mean Andrew Dworkin? Or Simone De Beavoir? Or perhaps Catharine McKinnon? Adrienne Rich?," they have no clue, because their invented feminism is not related to actual feminism in any way.

PS: Some chick on Tumbl saying weird shit is NOT DEFINITIVE of any movement. Feminism has authors and texts and views and manifestos and you should look at THOSE before judging.

 

[enzo_gt]

Pretty much exactly this.

I find it pretty weird if people aren't feminist.

People aren't feminist because the quoted definition is generally just promoting equality; nothing inherently "feminist" or specific to the word or movement. It's a redundancy, and a root of a lot of the perception problems as well.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

No, the stigma is pretty massive. Go out in the world and see what everyday people think of feminism (and I don't mean in a college campus). They equate it to radical feminism and the subjugation of men.

Your everyday must be something special

 

[Neoriceisgood]

This is true. For example, we have a popular 'feminist' writer in the UK in Caitlin Moran who has been known to casually use slurs about transgender women, which has alienated her from a considerable section of the wider feminist movement in Britain.

'Feminism' is by no means a homogenous group at all.

One thing I find fascinating is how often people who are extremely anti-feminist take TERF gender-essentialism beliefs and freely mix them with the views of more inclusive subsects of feminism that actually care about intersectionality and put those mutually exclusive views together as "this is what feminists believe".

Certain subsects of feminism mix worse than oil and water, so it always blows my mind when people happily lump those groups together as the same people.

 

[Kokonoe]

Truth to be told there are different things different people call radical feminism.


Most non-feminists see any feminist with a strong opinion as radical feminism from what I can tell. (I've seen people use "radical feminism" to describe feminists who simply believe that there's inequality that negatively affects women)

Within feminist circles themselves usually the term "radfem/radical feminism" seems to be used to describe gender essentialist feminists. a.k.a people who believe there is a clear divide between male/female (to the point where they often discriminate against transexual people.)

Burger_Baron's post is largely spot on, the name "feminism" is usually contrasted to what is considered a "patriarchal" society with the man as the head of the household.

The reason some definitions of feminism benefit men as well is because the "fem" part of the word is against patriachal structures, which has negative effects on both the social role of men & women, just in different ways.

Apologies if I didn't word everything perfectly. ^^;

Thanks, Neorice! I can agree with this as well as the idea a male should be the leader of a household is a lot of pressure on both men and women.

To answer your question, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie gives a pretty straightforward definition:
"Feminist: a person who believes in the social Political, and economic equality of the sexes"
edit: curse you, infinite!

Other posters have already posted the same thing, but it's only scratching the surface.

May I introduce you to the Girl-GAF Community?

The OP of that thread has a Feminism section with a lot of books and blogs. You're better off reading actual feminist literature than reading posts from a gaming community that mainly consists of dudes who won't even bother *really* researching feminism seriously.

I haven't really ever participated in politics but I understand this has political aspects as well and as long as it's just that I entirely agree with equality. I feel equality is best way for diversity and happiness.

Thank you for that link! I'll be sure to read this.

Feminism is the idea that men and women should be totally equal. That is how it started at least, and is supposed to still be that way.

I'm a man, and I consider myself a feminist. The 'femi' part is outdated if you ask me.

The stigma you see surrounding feminism is because of the 'face' of feminism that gets media attention are typically extremists who say things like 'even consensual sex with a man is rape because society tricked the women into thinking she wanted it' etc. It's important people realise these are extremists though and are not representative of what it means to be a feminist.

Feminism is also hated because we live in a patriarchal society which far favours men, whether they realise it or not. It's easy to laugh at a cause that starts with femi when everything is run by men.

So a few bad apples ruining the image of the bunch alongside with opposing views on generalizations and stereotypes that have been apart of the world for a while now. Yes, I can see now how that can cause this. I'm really seeing nothing wrong with this, nor do I think this hatred is warranted at all.

I've seen police officers do horrible things but I've also seen them do great things as well, to hate a entire movement over one thing isn't really fair.

The "femi" part still throws some people off. Something like "genderequalism" (for lack of a better term) would be much better to get the point across.

idk I just think it needs a rebrand or something. I'm a big supporter of gender equality and I understand why it started out as "feminism", but I also get why people think it's confusing or why some males don't want to identify as "feminists" just because of the name.

I admit, it has confused me, I guess that could work although perhaps it'd be easier for more explanations to be told on what it is. Who knows. Haha.

 

[Peru]

As a citizen of the 2000s, male or female, feminist is the most natural thing to idenfity as. Of course I'm a feminist. I'm also an anti-racist. Two things that seem to be the most obvious attitudes to hold.

 

[Amalthea]

I guess if you don't know how shitty women were threated until the 60's then it's really hard to understand.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

sounds awesome tbh

 

[Infinite]

One thing I find fascinating is how often people who are extremely anti-feminist take TERF gender-essentialism beliefs and freely mix them with the views of more inclusive subsects of feminism that actually care about intersectionality and put those mutually exclusive views together as "this is what feminists believe".

Certain subsects of feminism mix worse than oil and water, so it always blows my mind when people happily lump those groups together as the same people.

Despite that inclusiveness and intersectionality is still a big issue with even mainstream modern feminist. It would always be a thing unless the movemt actively recognizes it and fights for intersecting minority groups too. the experience of the black woman is naturally different from that of the white woman and black man so is that of a gay woman from a straight woman and gay man etc.

 

[TUROK]

That's really only the case in the US. It is a result of the weird political scene in the US. Certain elements in the conservative movement have succeeded in creating this 'strawman' feminist. They encourage everyone to hate on this unreasonable boogeyman feminist that they came up with (Cf. the communist in the eyes the McCarthyist).

Wierd thing is, this has little resemblance to reality. If you ask these people critical of this 'feminism' to name any books or authors or texts that they see as definitive of this movement, they have no friggin clue. It's a completely made-up enemy.

If you ask, "Do you mean Andrew Dworkin? Or Simone De Beavoir? Or perhaps Catharine McKinnon? Adrienne Rich?," they have no clue, because their invented feminism is not related to actual feminism in any way.

PS: Some chick on Tumbl saying weird shit is NOT DEFINITIVE of any movement. Feminism has authors and texts and views and manifestos and you should look at THOSE before judging.

Most people's exposure to feminism is what they see and hear online. Radical feminism on the internet is relatively prevalent, and the outrageous shit gets noticed more than the rational shit. When a lot people are exposed to ridiculous words and ideals and they're expressed by a "feminist," it's no wonder why such a stigma is attached to it.

And I wasn't saying that feminism is inherently radical or pro-male subjugation, so calm your tits, dude.