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[Authority]

Before you read, listen to this and chill.

Key Notes

• The world feels so small
• Upscaling is absent
• There are no henchies or heroes
• Dungeons kinda suck
• The gear and lockbox situation is frustrating
• The economy is bad, and it should feel bad
• So where's that once-promised housing?

Read more - http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/05/09/working-as-intended-what-guild-wars-2-got-wrong/

 

[DJIzana]

Nailed it to the T regarding the fact that the game only touches on the smaller parts of the Guild Wars universe. So many zones they could've added in and yet they've only added The Sea of Sorrows.

For me, I enjoyed the exploration the most and also because jumping puzzles is what helped making exploring fun. They've sure dumbed it down since... :'(

 

[darkziosj]

I disagree in many points but hey whatever it's another clickbait article

 

[Camp Lo]

I definitely agree with the upscaling section. It's been my main gripe with GW2 overall.

 

[m_shortpants]

My only gripe with the game was that once you got in a group, any team based gameplay is basically zerg and dodge. I prefer the holy trinity, because it requires cohesion and coordination. I just couldn't get into dungeons in GW2.

Everything else is great. No competition for mobs or resources. Combat was fun. SPVP was fun. These are the aspects that make other MMOs feel archaic in design.

I loved leveling my character. But man those dungeons.

 

[Jobbs]

I am tired of progressive mechanics and promises that are declared under the assumption that it's superior.

(note that these don't all apply to guild wars 2, these are just things that come to mind)

"NO classes! Do whatever you want!" (but.. I like classes)
"ONE button does everything! No need for lots of buttons!" (but.. I like buttons..)
"No need for healers or tanks! Everyone can do everything!" (but.. I like defined group roles..)
"No levels! Everyone can play together and do everything! Levels don't matter!" (but.. I like levels mattering..)
"Racial choice is a cosmetic difference and shouldn't have any significant consequence on gameplay!" (but... why can't the race matter a lot? I think it should)

 

[Rafterman]

I disagree in many points but hey whatever it's another clickbait article

Considering they did an article call "Working As Intended: What Guild Wars 2 got right" less than two months ago I'd say it's not click bait at all.

My only gripe with the game was that once you got in a group, any team based gameplay is basically zerg and dodge. I prefer the holy trinity, because it requires cohesion and coordination. I just couldn't get into dungeons in GW2.

Everything else is great. No competition for mobs or resources. Combat was fun. SPVP was fun. These are the aspects that make other MMOs feel archaic in design.

I loved leveling my character. But man those dungeons.

GW2 is an excellent single player game, and an atrocious MMO. It's thoroughly enjoying until you get to group content at which point it's as bad as it gets in the genre and does nothing to stand out.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Where's the holy trinity?

 

[Laieon]

Guild Wars 2 is a great game until Trahearne is introduced, then it goes downhill. By the time you hit 80, you've lost all interest to play (especially when you see how terrible Orre looks).



That was my experience anyway.

 

[Camp Lo]

Where's the holy trinity?

Don't think it would work in that game though. I could be wrong.

 

[inky]

Guild Wars 2 is a great game until Trahearne is introduced, then it goes downhill. By the time you hit 80, you've lost all interest to play (especially when you see how terrible Orre looks).



That was my experience anyway.

Mine was similar. I enjoyed the content because I prefer SP. I enjoyed the little stories from the area events and loved exploring the world, but once I hit 80 the last area was awful to do. I didn't like the gear all that much, and Karma was a weird currency which I didn't love and back then was awful to get. The last few areas felt unfinished so it was just better to try and level alts, which wasn't as fun as I imagined.

On top of that, I hate having to beg people to group and do dungeons and at that moment I did a lot, and someone from the guild stole a shitload of items I sent for him to craft so I just lost interest. Last time I logged in I had 19 gold in my bag (which was a lot back then) and everything on the market was hundreds and thousands. The gem store obviously didn't survive inflation either, so at this point I'm too behind to try and play it anything more than casually, and when asking about fractals apparently I needed a ton of gear I didn't have, which just reminded me of my LOTRO days with the radiance (?) requirements when to do the dungeons you needed to have gear from those dungeons or you were kicked out from the group. Stupid.

It has a ton of worthwhile content (I love getting all the points in the maps) and WvW was fun for a bit, but my desire to play just deflated a lot. I still keep it installed and log in every now and then, but I don't find the joy I did during the launch months.

 

[m_shortpants]

GW2 is an excellent single player game, and an atrocious MMO. It's thoroughly enjoying until you get to group content at which point it's as bad as it gets in the genre and does nothing to stand out.

Yup. Exploring was downright amazing. I loved map completion, jumping puzzles, etc. All of those made me feel like I was exploring. I would say it was enjoyable to play with maybe 2-3 friends in a group max but that's it. So it was a good coop game I guess.

 

[Camp Lo]

It has a ton of worthwhile content (I love getting all the points in the maps) and WvW was fun for a bit, but my desire to play just deflated a lot. I still keep it installed and log in every now and then, but I don't find the joy I did during the launch months.

Me too. I can't get back into it, I get up to level 30 and then I just give up.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

The worst part for me was the multiplayer experience. I play a lot of games with my brother, and I hated how it never felt like we were playing a game together. Adventuring. It was more like I was doing something, and he was kinda there to tag along. I enjoyed much more making a party in the first Guild Wars, then loading out into a dungeon/field/etc for the quest.

 

[Card Boy]

What i loved about GW1 PvP is every ability acted like a Magic the Gathering card and there where hundreds of abilities with the choice to get doing hybrid classes. Now in GW2 its a DOT and Zerg fest and people kill you beyond the grave.

Remember Touch Rangers?
Remember 55HP Monks?
Remember Hammer Pet Rangers?
Remember Ebon Dust Aura builds?
Remember when Mesmers where cool and unique?

Yeah fuck you Izzy.

GW2 is a disaster in every way for. The story sucks whereas we had proper cutscenes and an epic story in GW1. Now its just a fetch quest with kill X of these and collect 20 of those quest like every other MMO.

My issues with GW2 is massive and too long to list.

 

[Camp Lo]

What i loved about GW1 PvP is every ability acted like a Magic the Gathering card and there where hundreds of abilities with the choice to get doing hybrid classes. Now in GW2 its a DOT and Zerg fest and people kill you beyond the grave.

Remember Touch Rangers?
Remember 55HP Monks?
Remember Hammer Pet Rangers?
Remember Ebon Dust Aura builds?
Remember when Mesmers where cool and unique?

Yeah fuck you Izzy.

GW2 is a disaster in every way for. The story sucks whereas we had proper cutscenes and an epic story in GW1. Now its just a fetch quest with kill X of these and collect 20 of those quest like every other MMO.

My issues with GW2 is massive and too long to list.

Is GW1 worth playing if you've only played GW2?

 

[Laieon]

Is GW1 worth playing if you've only played GW2?

I wasn't a huge fan of Guild Wars 1 either, but I still think it's worth checking out. The graphics obviously aren't going to be as good, but the game itself feels significantly deeper than Guild Wars 2. There's also only 20 levels, so you can hit max level pretty quickly. They almost feel like not only 2 completely different games, but 2 completely different genres.

 

[Atomski]

I am tired of progressive mechanics and promises that are declared under the assumption that it's superior.

(note that these don't all apply to guild wars 2, these are just things that come to mind)

"NO classes! Do whatever you want!" (but.. I like classes)
"ONE button does everything! No need for lots of buttons!" (but.. I like buttons..)
"No need for healers or tanks! Everyone can do everything!" (but.. I like defined group roles..)
"No levels! Everyone can play together and do everything! Levels don't matter!" (but.. I like levels mattering..)
"Racial choice is a cosmetic difference and shouldn't have any significant consequence on gameplay!" (but... why can't the race matter a lot? I think it should)

While GW2 has its issues I feel like what you want here is a different game.. other mmos have all those things, why not play those? Is it really that bad that a mmo tries to do something different?

 

[Lafiel]

GW2 has great support from the developers that's like above most MMOs esp since it has no sub fee.. but the fundamental core of the game is kind of weak compared to that. And I vastly preferred Guild Wars 1.

 

[ShinMaruku]

My main issue with gw2 is in some ways it's just an half assed foray into something that could be great. It's combat is half assed thus limiting the content they can make. How they put gold drops and how they handled the market and crafting was half assed some work could have gone into it.

 

[BlitzBlake]

I certainly got my money's worth during launch period, but I can't play it ever again. I don't find the game particularly alt friendly nor do I enjoy the end game. But the journey to that first lvl 80 was great, mostly. Especially with a partner.

 

[A Black Falcon]

What GW2 got wrong is that they made a sequel to World of Warcraft instead of a equal to Guild Wars. I wanted more Guild Wars, not WoW. And that's why GW2, while the best MMO ever, is also one of the most disappointing games of all time for me. GW1 is a far better game than any MMORPG! I played a thousand hours of GW1, minimum, but have barely touched GW2 since launch; it's a completely different kind of game, and just isn't anywhere near as interesting.

 

[oneils]

I disagree in many points but hey whatever it's another clickbait article

They also wrote an article about what is right about the game. You can read that if you want your opinions validated.

 

[pillowtalk]

I like half the things they did and the other half not so much. I liked that they got rid of the need to bring a party with you when you go out (either bots or players), but I hate that they got rid of the holy trinity. The jumping puzzles/exploration is really good though.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

I disagreed with most of the article, because well, it's a lot of the same 'What I wanted was wow 2.0 and we didn't get it' style stuff.

Don't like fast travel? then don't use it! The zones are actually rather large when you walk them compared to many other games. We do need some new ones, and hopefully we see them this year.

Crafting isn't profitable? It's a commodities market, learn to play it. Things are valuable because the players desire those products. Things that don't sell can be broken down for luck or other mats. This isn't wow or skyrim where you have to generate tons of otehrwise useless crap just to level up. Nothing goes to waste.

The game is level based, so upleveling, outside of certain living story events, doesn't make a lot of sense. With literally everything granting xp, leveling is also pretty fast in this game compared to others.

There is no henchemen? Not really a gripe about the game, more a gripe about something you wish it had that it never did.

Dungeons are fine, if you play like intended and not trying to play it like wow.

Lockboxes suck, yes, but are completely optional. Since all gear for a particular level has similar stats, it's all just a cosmetic thing anyways. Tons of other non lockbox options.

The lack of housing is a bit frustrating, seemingly being replaced by the not really useful home instances. This is probably the only thing beyond needing some new zones that really sounds like a legit argument.

 

[TheYanger]

I disagreed with most of the article, because well, it's a lot of the same 'What I wanted was wow 2.0 and we didn't get it' style stuff.

Don't like fast travel? then don't use it! The zones are actually rather large when you walk them compared to many other games. We do need some new ones, and hopefully we see them this year.

Crafting isn't profitable? It's a commodities market, learn to play it. Things are valuable because the players desire those products. Things that don't sell can be broken down for luck or other mats. This isn't wow or skyrim where you have to generate tons of otehrwise useless crap just to level up. Nothing goes to waste.

The game is level based, so upleveling, outside of certain living story events, doesn't make a lot of sense. With literally everything granting xp, leveling is also pretty fast in this game compared to others.

There is no henchemen? Not really a gripe about the game, more a gripe about something you wish it had that it never did.

Dungeons are fine, if you play like intended and not trying to play it like wow.

Lockboxes suck, yes, but are completely optional. Since all gear for a particular level has similar stats, it's all just a cosmetic thing anyways. Tons of other non lockbox options.

The lack of housing is a bit frustrating, seemingly being replaced by the not really useful home instances. This is probably the only thing beyond needing some new zones that really sounds like a legit argument.

Um. Most of the complaints have nothing to do with wow and more to do with GW1.

 

[m_shortpants]

Is GW1 worth playing if you've only played GW2?

GW1 is basically only instanced gameplay. You can only see other people not in your group when you are in a town or city. Then you party up and continue the story, which are basically instances. It was not a traditional MMO, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

PvP was great too because as someone else mentioned you have a main class and a secondary class so there are a lot of different combinations.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I think the article makes some good points. Should be noted that they also have another article detailing things the game did well.

While I've found some enjoyment in GW2 I still vastly prefer the style of the first game. The game itself doesn't really seem like a sequel to Guild Wars 1 but something different which is fine for those who enjoy that but it's not the evolution of Guild Wars 1 that I think many were expecting to play.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I heard they did something with megaservers as of late but I started the game about 2 months after release and it felt DEAD (leveling). I was on the neogaf NA server which was supposedly very popular but the big events in each zone were dead. I had to shout to try and get people to come help, very annoying.

Another issue I had was the quest system, its sort of like the Fate system but more grindier...I had to do the same ones over and over and over and it really never felt unique.

The trinity system was missed, to me anyways, id rather have set roles then everyone doing whatever they wanted + mass zerg.

Lastly, not as important but the UI always felt FLAT to me, I dont know what it is but its very cheap looking, I really wish they would focus more on the UI next time around.

 

[Sophia]

I wasn't sure if I'd end up agreeing with the article at first glance, but reading the part about dungeons basically summed up a frequent complaint of mine about the game.

 

[Camp Lo]

GW1 is basically only instanced gameplay. You can only see other people not in your group when you are in a town or city. Then you party up and continue the story, which are basically instances. It was not a traditional MMO, but it was a hell of a lot of fun.

PvP was great too because as someone else mentioned you have a main class and a secondary class so there are a lot of different combinations.

Is it more of a single player MMO than GW2? I'm not gonna lie, I kind of dig that type of game.

 

[Forkball]

All you holy trinity lovers are keeping MMOs back. I respect Guild Wars 2's bravado to change so much, even if not everything worked out the way it should have. I think honestly that gamers are ready to move past MMORPGs into other MMO games (DayZ, Minecraft, etc.)

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

The game feels overly designed and too closed and controlled for me. It was fine in Guild Wars 1 because Guild Wars 1 was closed and controlled infrastructure wise because it wasn't trying to be as open as other MMOs and ArenaNet was aggressive in trying to convey that. Guild Wars 2 missing a lot of cool things (lore and gameplay wise) that I loved from the original while also missing the emergent gameplay and wild west freedom/openness of other MMOs. The builds and customization in GW1 felt like ArenaNet just dropped a bunch of skills and numbers on my desk and told me to make something and if you failed, you just try again and keep experimenting until you find something that works. Last time I played Guild Wars 2 I didn't even have the freedom to fail. I'm glad some MMOs are moving towards sandbox design.

 

[Card Boy]

Is it more of a single player MMO than GW2? I'm not gonna lie, I kind of dig that type of game.

Yeah. Its more of a CO-OP MMORPG. Amazing game till it got abandoned for GW2.

 

[Razma1]

GW2 was great until cap for me. Then it was boring dungeon or zerg WvW. I couldn't get into the actual PvP of the game because it was just meh compared to the offerings from GW1. I used to run a competitive GvG guild in GW1 and it was just so organized and intense compared to what the game is now.

I think I left 2 months after launch and came back a year after that into a big guild and the whole content we did was just world boss to world boss for all the dailies and then split off and do instances or PVP. It was so boring I left after I think 2 weeks? Don't even get me started on fractals what a disaster.

I was SUPER hyped for this game due to my love for GW I even grinded 35/50 for the cosmetic rewards but that ended up being 150 hours down the drain.

 

[rayisbeast]

I prefer GW1 over GW2. The builds had a lot more creativity and depth in them. Now it is pick a weapon and that is your build. The ability of having 2 classes at a time was very interesting and so far my favorite way of having builds in a game so far.

 

[Mechazawa]

My only gripe with the game was that once you got in a group, any team based gameplay is basically zerg and dodge. I prefer the holy trinity, because it requires cohesion and coordination. I just couldn't get into dungeons in GW2.

I admittedly haven't played a ton of the game's dungeons, but the ones I have generally ended with pattern based boss and a relatively small group. You couldn't really zerg anything in the Molten facility or the sky pirates dungeon.

Not sure why you bring up dodging as a negative. It's a vital, skill based mechanic.

 

[Hyunashi]

The writing is also terrible. I mean I am kinda optimistic for season 2, but I cant see ANET writing a decent story. Its sad because the lore is incredible in this game, there was so so so so much potential but we got a sub-par personal story with a TERRIBLE and ANTI-CLIMATIC final encounter and a dragged out and incredibly cringe-worthy living story.

In particular, the economy IS terrible. I feel genuinely bad for the new people that come to play and aim for the most visually impressive weapons without real cash to back them. All this talk about the holy trinity being taken away does not really tell the full story. The game is essentially a DPS race to clear content as fast as possible and if you are using sub-par gear and mention said fact, you get called out because you essentially are being carried and providing less to the team (Personally, I cringe every-time I see someone argue about how PVT is just as good as beserker, or how people try healing power builds which plainly suck). This is also besides that point that dungeons are terribly easy and ANETS idea of difficulty in them is to give mobs chunks and chunks of health.

Yet despite the problems, it IS an addictive game that keeps me coming back. My biggest issue is that GW2 never really had significant competition. I also cant believe how praised the feature pack got when it contained stuff that really should have come alot sooner (The only good thing about the feature patch for me was being able to use my 5 legendary skins on all my alts). In my opinion the pros of the game outweigh the cons, but I hope season 2 of the living story fails so we can get an actual expansion, with actual content that will and can be played on a more regular basis.

 

[Sophia]

I admittedly haven't played a ton of the game's dungeons, but the ones I have generally ended with pattern based boss and a relatively small group. You couldn't really zerg anything in the Molten facility or the sky pirates dungeon.

Not sure why you bring up dodging as a negative. It's a vital, skill based mechanic.

The newer group content in Guild Wars 2 is much better than the stuff that came out in launch. It's especially noticeable in newer Fractals, in which group play is essential.

 

[linkent]

my complain during early times..
everything is grind for gold..
challenge means nothing..

so what do you get for completing arah1-4? nothing except cool costume/title..
while those who exploit or "playing the trading game" get the legendary..

also trinity.. it sux that everyone must go berserker or not getting into a cof farm..
LFM zerker warrior+1mesmer for cof..

 

[jersoc]

Dungeons dont kind of suck, they're down right awful. Way too long and no fun bosses. Too much trash little reward.

 

[TheYanger]

I admittedly haven't played a ton of the game's dungeons, but the ones I have generally ended with pattern based boss and a relatively small group. You couldn't really zerg anything in the Molten facility or the sky pirates dungeon.

Not sure why you bring up dodging as a negative. It's a vital, skill based mechanic.

It's not real dodging, it's just invulnerability with an animation. See wildstar where you can't just dodge INTO attacks to avoid them. In fact, due to the way dodging in GW2 works, it is LESS skillful to use the dodge roll in that game than to avoid things in wow, a game with no 'dodge roll' to speak of (where you just have to hustle your ass away from things).

 

[Hyunashi]

my complain during early times..
everything is grind for gold..
challenge means nothing..

Its still the same. There is no prestige in this game. It still humors me when people get amazed at legendary weapons or think they are prestigious. They are not, they just show that the individual had the patience to save for it

Spoiler

or they bought it with money or they got lucky

.

There have been 2 pieces of challenging content: Liadri (who is not available anymore) and the Jungle Wurm BEFORE the feature patch (it has now been nerfed to faceroll status). Fractals are easy, dungeons are easy and open world content is easy.

 

[Mechazawa]

It's not real dodging, it's just invulnerability with an animation. See wildstar where you can't just dodge INTO attacks to avoid them. In fact, due to the way dodging in GW2 works, it is LESS skillful to use the dodge roll in that game than to avoid things in wow, a game with no 'dodge roll' to speak of (where you just have to hustle your ass away from things).

Uh, so? I-frames in dodges are a gameplay staple. I've dodged to eat explosions in Lost Planet and negate sword swings in Dark Souls. I don't see why that's intrinsically an issue in Guild Wars 2.

 

[TheYanger]

Uh, so? I-frames in dodges are a gameplay staple. I've dodged to eat explosions in Lost Planet and negate sword swings in Dark Souls. I don't see why that's intrinsically an issue in Guild Wars 2.

It's not an 'issue', but it's certainly not some badass skillful gameplay ;p
A game with a visual 'dodge' that is painfully easy to use vs a game with no 'dodge' but that doesn't give you any way to avoid an attack besides simply, AVOIDING it, one of these things is more skillful than the other.

GW2 is the former.

 

[Mechazawa]

It's still timing based.

GW2 is admittedly probably more generous than my other examples, but I've eaten shit trying to dodge attacks plenty of times.

 

[m_shortpants]

I admittedly haven't played a ton of the game's dungeons, but the ones I have generally ended with pattern based boss and a relatively small group. You couldn't really zerg anything in the Molten facility or the sky pirates dungeon.

Not sure why you bring up dodging as a negative. It's a vital, skill based mechanic.

I don't have a problem with dodging, in fact I really like it as part of combat. I just prefer role based group dungeons. In GW2 it seems like everyone is just DPSing while dodging, at least to me.

 

[shysaursoft]

Before you read, listen to this and chill.

I look forward to your other news posts about ESO, WildStar, FFXIV, EQN, Draenor, and more. It's good that more MMO related news is posted to GAF, the genre gets oddly overlooked if it's not WoW and falling subscriber numbers, or shutting down, or going F2P. But I think the attitude of "oh, I posted something negative, I bet tons of people are going to come in and get all upset" doesn't help things, and instead sets the tone moving forward. Let people decide for themselves how they want to respond.

As for the piece, most of the article is opinions, which is fine. I agree with a few as well.

The housing system is long overdue. The current setup is a stop-gap, and an incomplete one at that. Hopefully they're spending time on that, rather than guild-vs-guild. I know the "I want to pwn noobs" crowd is vocal, but I think the PvE side is by far the larger grouping, and dealing with their issues is a bit more important. Not that I think housing is critical, but it's certainly a nice-to-have and adds something to progress towards. WildStar gets this part so right, it's embarrassing to GW2.

World feels pretty large to me, but if you just waypoint around you lose a lot of the distance between points. There's so much detail in every area, I'm still finding new things every day. But people can be in a rush, and go right past neat things. I certainly don't miss heroes from GW1, that and skill-capturing were two things I disliked most about the first game. The dungeons are fun, as long as you play them with people who are fun. The economy does need work (especially the bag rune situation).

Opinions aside, it gets more right than wrong at least, which probably accounts for its continued success. It's good that there's options for MMO players these days. A veritable bounty of sub / non-sub / F2P MMOs are flooding the market, each with their own style and ideas, there's space for everyone without needing to tear one down just to prop one up.

Yeah. Its more of a CO-OP MMORPG. Amazing game till it got abandoned for GW2.

I was playing GW1 today, and surprised at how many people are still there, and active. Even got help with a mission where Heroes were failing at simple tasks. I wouldn't say GW1 is abandoned, the population is certainly diminished, but it's still got a healthy amount of people around.

There were even three American Districts in Kamadan when I checked.

And even though it was mentioned, nobody linked to it. Written by the same author: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/28/working-as-intended-what-guild-wars-2-got-right/

Working As Intended: What Guild Wars 2 got right

- Horizontal progression, the game doesn't waste your time.
- Equal-opportunity floofy gear.
- Exploration as a gameplay mechanic.
- Fast-travel keeps things easy.
- Parts of the crafting system are great.
- Buy once, play forever. No sub keeping you hostage.

 

[Tevos]

GW2 is no where near as good as GW1 is to me and probably never will be, but it's definitely not really a bad game. It just feels uninspired and trying to appeal to as many audiences as possible (and thus it becomes cloudy what it's identify is at all).

PvP in GW2 will NEVER be as good as GW1 pvp. I still have yet to play PvP in an mmo that even comes close to that.

But even then, GW2 is still more enjoyable than a lot of other MMOs on the market - and without the monthly fee.

 

[oSoLucky]

I think the problem for a large part of the community is that sPvP and WvW are MAJOR steps back from GvG and Tomb of Primeval Kings(Heroe's Ascent). The combat mechanics in GW2 don't lend themselves to those styles of gameplay, but I personally feel like ANet should have designed the game to continue the legacy of the most highly lauded area of GW1 first(the amazing PvP), and then build a great game with that foundation. It would probably have made grouping for endgame feel a lot better too, with slightly more emphasis on roles.