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[WordAssassin]

Bad idea for rare to talk about scrapped versions. Just adds fuel to the fire

Yes, because a tweaked port of Banko-Kazooie and a game based entirely around fighting a boss the whole way through are concepts that will really be missed. Excellent fuel for the haters, that.

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Why do people seem to think there is some kind of hive mind going on on message boards? Why does someone whining about lack of innovation mean that someone else can't complain when a game strays too far from previous games? I'm disappointed with the change of focus in this game and I've never once complained about a lack of innovation in games, so don't talk like I'm being a hypocrite because of what other people say.

I'm talking about in general. Congratulations on being an exception. How silly of me not to put a disclaimer excluding you from my rant.

 

[bigmakstudios]

I think there is a huge gray area between retreading old game play and changing the core game play mechanics in an already established series so much that the final product seems unfamiliar to fans of the previous games.

 

[AZ Greg]

Usually I don't care about negativity toward something I like, but the reaction to this game has just been appalling. Rare makes something unique and creative, and all people can do is whine. People bitch about wanting innovative games constantly, then when they get one they cry because it's not the same old game.

As a BK fan, who is admittedly somewhat disappointed with the new direction, I too find the overwhelming negativity in this thread a little appalling. However, equally as appalling are the defenders of the new direction who claim that they didn't want the same old BK anyway. Take for example, Agent Icebeezy. One of the most vocal defenders of the new direction in this thread. He claims he didn't just want "Banjo in HD." Yet when I take a look back at the BK threads over the last year or so I don't see him or anyone claiming that they wanted something different. In fact, all he seemed to care about was Rare's graphical prowess.

If someone is truly excited about the new direction then great. I too hope it turns out well. But don't feign that a new direction for the series, which just happened to be shown, is what you wanted all along.

 

[JHarris]

People who say the game will suck don't know what they're talking about.

But they know what of they speak better than those who say it will be incredible based on a trailer. At least the first category of people have actually played an awesome original game, and a pretty good sequel, and can clearly see what was lost.

 

[WordAssassin]

I'm saying it'll be incredible based not on the trailers, but the interviews. The Banjo team has put A LOT of effort into this game and it sounds like it's going to be a magical experience. And by reading the roundtable, and knowing what we could have gottent, and seeing and hearing what we will be getting, the game DOES sound incredible.

Edit: I mean, can you even comprehend the shit fest that would have erupted had Banjo-Threely been just an HD do-over of Banjo-Kaooie?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

As a BK fan, who is admittedly somewhat disappointed with the new direction, I too find the overwhelming negativity in this thread a little appalling. However, equally as appalling are the defenders of the new direction who claim that they didn't want the same old BK anyway. Take for example, Agent Icebeezy. One of the most vocal defenders of the new direction in this thread. He claims he didn't just want "Banjo in HD." Yet when I take a look back at the BK threads over the last year or so I don't see him or anyone claiming that they wanted something different. In fact, all he seemed to care about was Rare's graphical prowess.

If someone is truly excited about the new direction then great. I too hope it turns out well. But don't feign that a new direction for the series, which just happened to be shown, is what you wanted all along.

I'm a graphics whore, I admit that quite freely. I'm a bigger Rare fan though. I've said on here that even though I bought Zelda at launch and beat it, it felt as if it had no soul. They take their customers for granted. I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy Mario Kart, it is basically the same shit since SNES. The last console Zeldas have run with the light/dark theme 4 games running. Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game. If Banjo had turned out to be like that, it is possible that upon purchasing it, it would be discarded just like Mario was in my house. I am beyond thrilled to see this. Going to space is not ingenuity, being able to step out of the box to try something new is. There is the possibility that Rare misses their mark, but I'm very happy to see them try.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

How do you know that they are straying too far? Have you played it? Everybody said that it feels like a Banjo game

Exactly. Everyone is taking a 30 second glimpse of the game and going completely apeshit.

It's really quite sad. But happens over and over and over again here.

 

[MisterHero]

Man I wish there was more media out.

I'm a graphics whore, I admit that quite freely. I'm a bigger Rare fan though. I've said on here that even though I bought Zelda at launch and beat it, it felt as if it had no soul. They take their customers for granted. I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy Mario Kart, it is basically the same shit since SNES. The last console Zeldas have run with the light/dark theme 4 games running. Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game. If Banjo had turned out to be like that, it is possible that upon purchasing it, it would be discarded just like Mario was in my house. I am beyond thrilled to see this. Going to space is not ingenuity, being able to step out of the box to try something new is. There is the possibility that Rare misses their mark, but I'm very happy to see them try.

:lol

Then you'll understand that people, maybe a lot of people, will have differing opinions then.

 

[The_Dude]

How do you know that they are straying too far? Have you played it? Everybody said that it feels like a Banjo game

I wasn't refering to Banjo with that comment, it was an example of the type of thing I have a problem with.

I'm talking about in general. Congratulations on being an exception. How silly of me not to put a disclaimer excluding you from my rant.

Sorry, my mistake. I didn't realize sweeping generalizations, based on a varied group of differing opinions, are perfectly valid.

 

[AZ Greg]

I'm a graphics whore, I admit that quite freely. I'm a bigger Rare fan though. I've said on here that even though I bought Zelda at launch and beat it, it felt as if it had no soul. They take their customers for granted. I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy Mario Kart, it is basically the same shit since SNES. The last console Zeldas have run with the light/dark theme 4 games running. Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game. If Banjo had turned out to be like that, it is possible that upon purchasing it, it would be discarded just like Mario was in my house. I am beyond thrilled to see this. Going to space is not ingenuity, being able to step out of the box to try something new is. There is the possibility that Rare misses their mark, but I'm very happy to see them try.

Fair enough. Your posts, however, did make you come off as more of a Rare graphical engine fan than a Rare fan.

You make a good point about Nintendo's games and I've felt the same way about them for years. On the other hand, is it safe to say that you're a fan of Halo 3, GTA 4, COD 4, Forza 2, PGR 4, etc...? At their cores, those games are basically the same thing as the original game that spawned them. However, each managed to innovate without changing the core direction of the game. Whether that be by implementing online party systems, recorded films, dual wielding, online free-roam, a prestige system, photo mode, or whatever other unique new features that were added from sequel to sequel.

The point is that Rare could have satisfied both the crowd that wanted "Banjo in HD" and the crowd that didn't only want "Banjo in HD." Much like Halo 3 isn't just Halo 2 in HD. And again, the people praising the new direction in this thread never called for it before it was announced. Nor do they denounce the sequels that play it safe on their favorite console.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Fair enough. Your posts, however, did make you come off as more of a Rare graphical engine fan than a Rare fan.

You make a good point about Nintendo's games and I've felt the same way about them for years. On the other hand, is it safe to say that you're a fan of Halo 3, GTA 4, COD 4, Forza 2, PGR 4, etc...? At their cores, those games are basically the same thing as the original game that spawned them. However, each managed to innovate without changing the core direction of the game. Whether that be by implementing online party systems, recorded films, dual wielding, online free-roam, a prestige system, photo mode, or whatever other unique new features that were added from sequel to sequel.

The point is that Rare could have satisfied both the crowd that wanted "Banjo in HD" and the crowd that didn't only want "Banjo in HD." Much like Halo 3 isn't just Halo 2 in HD. And again, the people praising the new direction in this thread never called for it before it was announced. Nor do they denounce the sequels that play it safe on their favorite console.

I bought Viva Pinata Party Animals at launch. I have an affinity for Rare and Team Ninja. I just always buy their games. Yes, I bought Xtreme 2 at launch as well. I understand that people would have been satisfied if they got Banjo in HD, but when you look at the video interviews and read, the developers weren't comfortable in making Banjo in HD. They felt it was tedious and uninspired. They feel that the current platforming landscape is stagnant. It sounds like they are putting their hearts and souls into this title. Most of us grew up playing platformers, yet nowadays, they are nowhere to be found as people moved on. Tastes have changed and apparent with Gregg and others, it's changed quite a bit, enough to do this. However, every preview that I've read is glowing and it sounds like something very special is going to be in this game. It's not about innovation really with me, don't be afraid to try something new. This is the most beloved franchise that they have and they have turned it on it's head. For better or worse, if the game is great or garbage, I commend them for at least trying to do something different.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Gregg Mayles: You can buy upgrades to Banjo's basic abilities - speed, strength and stamina. You can bribe the police! You can buy prebuilt vehicles. Plus some other stuff that we aren't talking about / yet to put in!

Banjo has stats! This is cool. Some basic RPG stats for a change. Although it's probably just a toned down 1-5 system. However, this is still a step forward for platformers.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Gregg Mayles: Every challenge is different. In the 'difficult' version we'll provide you with a really crap vehicle that you must use!! It might only have one wheel, or be ridiculously top heavy, or frighteningly overpowered, or have no engine at all.

Pure Awesome.

Roysten's Fishbowl: Can we expect to see a special edition version of the game?

Gregg Mayles: No plans either way at the moment. That's more of a marketing question. Maybe we'll release a version with all the team's favourite creations on it. There are some very disturbing ones I can assure you...

I really hope that happens...I'm really liking this new angle, hope it plays as cool as it sounds.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Pure Awesome.



I really hope that happens...I'm really liking this new angle, hope it plays as cool as it sounds.

Sounds like potential DLC to me.

Now I just hope that Banjo 1 and 2 end on XBLA sometime......

 

[soldat7]

And again, the people praising the new direction in this thread never called for it before it was announced. Nor do they denounce the sequels that play it safe on their favorite console.

You can't anticipate something this dramatic though. I personally think people should keep an open mind about this game and not be so quick to condemn it outright. Looks pretty amazing to me.

 

[The_Dude]

Now I just hope that Banjo 1 and 2 end on XBLA sometime......

Why would you want to play those old, stale games?

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Sounds like potential DLC to me.

Now I just hope that Banjo 1 and 2 end on XBLA sometime......

Most likely...

And I think most of Rare's classic games will be available on XBLA someday, either in this generation or the next. If it's ever released Golden-Eye is the most likely one, then PD, KI, and then hopefully Blast-Corps. If Nuts and Bolts does well I think it's pretty likely the originals will be released.

When you look at all the franchises Rare has, and some of the new ones they're creating, the insane amount MS paid for them doesn't seem so bad...and Viva Pinta showed that they are still capable.

I'm really happy with what I've seen of this new game, it might not be the sequel that everyone was expecting, but it seems like a solid idea, looks great, and sounds like it's fun to play.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Most likely...

And I think most of Rare's classic games will be available on XBLA someday, either in this generation or the next. If it's ever released Golden-Eye is the most likely one, then PD, KI, and then hopefully Blast-Corps. If Nuts and Bolts does well I think it's pretty likely the originals will be released.

The main games i would like on XBLA are BK 1 and 2, blast corps and conker (without the butchered MP like on the xbox).

 

[WordAssassin]

And again, the people praising the new direction in this thread never called for it before it was announced. Nor do they denounce the sequels that play it safe on their favorite console.

Honestly, who the fuck could have seen this coming to anticipate it? Maybe people wanted something different and are simply open to the idea?

And EVERY SINGLE TIME a sequel is announced, no matter what platform it's for, people will bitch if it stays the same just as much, if not more than if it changes. Game developers literally cannot win. They're damned if they do [change], damned if they don't. People even complain about both over one game!

"I don't like Link transforming into a wolf that's too different."
"Why is Zelda doing light/dark world's again it's always the same!"

What if tomorrow Rare announced KI3 which had 3D fighting. Do you know what would happen? Some people would go YES!! And some would go "ugh shoulda kept it 2d this is shit." And if it was 2D some would go YES! while others would say "Wtf is this shit Rare get with the times and go 3D FFS."

 

[ch0mp]

Looks like fun.

I have decided to wait till I've played the game to decide whether I like it or not (I am clearly insane right?).

 

[Scottlarock]

I'm a graphics whore, I admit that quite freely. I'm a bigger Rare fan though. I've said on here that even though I bought Zelda at launch and beat it, it felt as if it had no soul. They take their customers for granted. I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy Mario Kart, it is basically the same shit since SNES. The last console Zeldas have run with the light/dark theme 4 games running. Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game. If Banjo had turned out to be like that, it is possible that upon purchasing it, it would be discarded just like Mario was in my house. I am beyond thrilled to see this. Going to space is not ingenuity, being able to step out of the box to try something new is. There is the possibility that Rare misses their mark, but I'm very happy to see them try.

*CLAPS*

 

[SapientWolf]

What if tomorrow Rare announced KI3 which had 3D fighting. Do you know what would happen? Some people would go YES!! And some would go "ugh shoulda kept it 2d this is shit."

KI fans are so deseperate that they would be happy with an XBLA port of the SNES version. Hell, they would probably buy a Cooking Mama clone staring Fulgore.

 

[rollingstart]

What if tomorrow Rare announced KI3 which had 3D fighting. Do you know what would happen? Some people would go YES!! And some would go "ugh shoulda kept it 2d this is shit." And if it was 2D some would go YES! while others would say "Wtf is this shit Rare get with the times and go 3D FFS."

Well, for Killer Instinct it would only make sense to go 3D. The previous games did that same psuedo-3d look that DKC did. Unless you are talking about something like Soul Calibur where you could side step versus simply back and forth.

 

[KTallguy]

I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars...Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game.

Wow...

I agree that Mario Galaxy was more evolutionary than revolutionary... but it definitely introduced many new concepts and many new ways to think about platforming.

I think the reason why Mario Galaxy was so good though, was because the mechanics were so finely polished. Your thoughts easily become on screen actions.

It's interesting if Banjo gets stats... that with the vehicles, it's really an entire new direction for platformers.

 

[HK-47]

KI fans are so deseperate that they would be happy with an XBLA port of the SNES version. Hell, they would probably buy a Cooking Mama clone staring Fulgore.

Dude that is an awesome idea

Cooking With Fulgore...I can see it now

 

[HK-47]

Wow...

I agree that Mario Galaxy was more evolutionary than revolutionary... but it definitely introduced many new concepts and many new ways to think about platforming.

I think the reason why Mario Galaxy was so good though, was because the mechanics were so finely polished. Your thoughts easily become on screen actions.

It's interesting if Banjo gets stats... that with the vehicles, it's really an entire new direction for platformers.

Not everything needs to be revolutionary. It quite likely many of anyone's favorite games are just evolutions of previous ideas. It sounds more like a beef with Nintendo, cause evolution is great.

 

[rollingstart]

I'm a graphics whore, I admit that quite freely. I'm a bigger Rare fan though. I've said on here that even though I bought Zelda at launch and beat it, it felt as if it had no soul. They take their customers for granted. I bought Mario Galaxy at launch and I can't be bothered to go past 30 stars. It's one of the reasons I didn't buy Mario Kart, it is basically the same shit since SNES. The last console Zeldas have run with the light/dark theme 4 games running. Mario has the same intrinsic feeling of basically playing the same game. If Banjo had turned out to be like that, it is possible that upon purchasing it, it would be discarded just like Mario was in my house. I am beyond thrilled to see this. Going to space is not ingenuity, being able to step out of the box to try something new is. There is the possibility that Rare misses their mark, but I'm very happy to see them try.

There are only 3 console Zelda games that do this: LTTP, OoT, and TP. WW and MM don't. (I am not counting Four Swords) Just pointing that out.

Also, I havent read the past dozen or so pages, but at least back when I was reading it, the problem wasnt the game itself but that they were using Banjo to sell this alternate concept (or whatever, if you disagree then you can be right, no long ass arguments here). Big difference here is that Rare is trying their hand at doing something creative in the main series when with Mario, the different stuff was an alternate series.

 

[MisterHero]

Not everything needs to be revolutionary. It quite likely many of anyone's favorite games are just evolutions of previous ideas. It sounds more like a beef with Nintendo, cause evolution is great.

Is this thread turning into one about Nintendo taking "safe-bets" on a cel-shaded Zelda, 1st-person Metroid, and a more linear (and yet vastly varied) Mario Galaxy?

It is a beef with Nintendo and their insistences to stick with the tried and true. You are right, many games are built with the idea of taking others great ideas, but basically every Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 feels like they could be interchanged and I wouldn't miss too much. I'm not saying that they are bad, because they aren't. They don't have any soul, any thing that goes, wow, this is really different for the series. Twilight Princess did have that in the form of Snowbound Peak. That is one dungeon though. It is so paint by numbers. Ganon, check, Zelda, check, Impa, check, light/dark themes, check. It feels more like interactive fan service than it does a game. Back to my original point, I don't see too much evolution in Mario.

STOP. NOW.

You're also skipping some of the better parts of TP [ex: Midna] but I'll let you slide on that one.

 

[HK-47]

Is this thread turning into one about Nintendo taking "safe-bets" on a cel-shaded Zelda, 1st-person Metroid, and a more linear (and yet vastly varied) Mario Galaxy?

Clearly Nintendo doesnt do anything with their franchises.

*plays Canvas Curse*

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Not everything needs to be revolutionary. It quite likely many of anyone's favorite games are just evolutions of previous ideas. It sounds more like a beef with Nintendo, cause evolution is great.

It is a beef with Nintendo and their insistences to stick with the tried and true. You are right, many games are built with the idea of taking others great ideas, but basically every Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 feels like they could be interchanged and I wouldn't miss too much. I'm not saying that they are bad, because they aren't. They don't have any soul, any thing that goes, wow, this is really different for the series. Twilight Princess did have that in the form of Snowbound Peak. That is one dungeon though. It is so paint by numbers. Ganon, check, Zelda, check, Impa, check, light/dark themes, check. It feels more like interactive fan service than it does a game. Back to my original point, I don't see too much evolution in Mario.

 

[MCD]

agent, you got balls.

nfans will eat you alive.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Is this thread turning into one about Nintendo taking "safe-bets" on a cel-shaded Zelda, 1st-person Metroid, and a more linear (and yet vastly varied) Mario Galaxy?

Changing the graphics is not like changing the gameplay. Those are two totally different things. The graphics of the Wind Waker was not a problem to me. You are right about Metroid, they did change it up. It skipped a generation, it needed a new way to introduce itself to the public and with the power of new technology, it was able to present itself in that way. You know, the same kinda situation Banjo-Kazooie is in.

agent, you got balls.

nfans will eat you alive.

I used to be one, Jedi Mind Tricks are in effect here

 

[KTallguy]

I agree to a certain extent.

If you create something too new, most people won't like it though.

It's all about creating something that feels fresh and new, but it really isn't.

Games like Galaxy felt "fresher" to me than games like "SSBB" (although I enjoyed both games).

Nintendo has taken great steps in making games more accessible though.

 

[MisterHero]

Changing the graphics is not like changing the gameplay. Those are two totally different things. The graphics of the Wind Waker was not a problem to me. You are right about Metroid, they did change it up. It skipped a generation, it needed a new way to introduce itself to the public and with the power of new technology, it was able to present itself in that way. You know, the same kinda situation Banjo-Kazooie is in.

You're comment about "lacking soul" is what makes WW [heck, MP and SMG as well] ruin your argument.

And yes I was a Nintendo fan back when the community despaired over the 1st-person Metroid. Don't worry about what people are thinking right now, it'll get better. That's why I mentioned them, it eventually always gets better.

 

[WordAssassin]

Well, for Killer Instinct it would only make sense to go 3D. The previous games did that same psuedo-3d look that DKC did. Unless you are talking about something like Soul Calibur where you could side step versus simply back and forth.

Yeah I meant a 3D fighting system, not just 3D graphics on a 2d plane.

 

[HK-47]

It is a beef with Nintendo and their insistences to stick with the tried and true. You are right, many games are built with the idea of taking others great ideas, but basically every Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 feels like they could be interchanged and I wouldn't miss too much. I'm not saying that they are bad, because they aren't. They don't have any soul, any thing that goes, wow, this is really different for the series. Twilight Princess did have that in the form of Snowbound Peak. That is one dungeon though. It is so paint by numbers. Ganon, check, Zelda, check, Impa, check, light/dark themes, check. It feels more like interactive fan service than it does a game. Back to my original point, I don't see too much evolution in Mario.

Please you can pull it on Zelda, but saying SM 64 = SMG is just mindboggling. They are different types of platformers.

And tried and true? Why the fuck not, especially for a conservative company like Nintendo. People wanted TP. Maybe they didnt want it after playing it but they got what they askd for. You do something new, ok, but then you abandon the game style or type you previous filled, to the chargrin of some. WW wasnt OoT and neither was MM. So maybe we ignore them and just go straight for TP?

I hope you support stuff like Canvas Curse or Prime. Nintendo likes to take their new concepts and add recognizable character to it, just like Rare is doing with Banjo. I wonder if VP 2 will be evolution or revolution. Likely the former

 

[MCD]

VP is still fresh, no need to change the whole concept.

 

[Pistolero]

Well, that's the risk inheret to shifting the focus of the game. Fans will always want the same formula so they'll definitely have something to criticize. I wasn't a BK adept at heart (Though I finished the first one and still think Mario64 was a much more enjoyable experience gameplay wise), so I don't mind the changes.

 

[GauntletFan]

Why do people seem to think there is some kind of hive mind going on on message boards?

There is, especially on this forum. Don't tell me you haven't noticed it

 

[Russtic]

Banjo Kazooi, Diddy Kong Racing, Blast Corps all rolled up into one Rare extravaganza. Rare fans should be ashamed for not loving every bit of it.

 

[The Grand Lucifarius]

Ok, I originally hated what I saw in the first vid. But after reading the details and seeing more footage I have to say I was completely wrong initially. I think the game looks really fun and it makes me wish I had a 360. (even more than I already do!)

It just didn't click at first. Now I'm a believer.

 

[HK-47]

VP is still fresh, no need to change the whole concept.

We have only gotten 3 3-D Marios over 11 years yet they shifted the concept in SMG quite significantly over the open world of 64 and Sunshine.

 

[MisterHero]

Banjo Kazooi, Diddy Kong Racing, Blast Corps all rolled up into one Rare extravaganza. Rare fans should be ashamed for not loving every bit of it.

Actually that's what I think it is. If there was ever a RARE game, this would likely be the one.

 

[Linkhero1]

We have only gotten 3 3-D Marios over 11 years yet they shifted the concept in SMG quite significantly over the open world of 64 and Sunshine.

None play the same for me. Seriously the gameplay in each changed one way or another. SMG just changed more of it.

 

[HK-47]

Actually that's what I think it is. If there was ever a RARE game, this would likely be the one.

No, that would be JFG 2...the sequel to their finest game.

 

[MCD]

We have only gotten 3 3-D Marios over 11 years yet they shifted the concept in SMG quite significantly over the open world of 64 and Sunshine.

Well, Sunshine was a failure (compared to Mario 64) and that's why changes were needed imo.

Banjo Tooie is the same, it wasn't great as the first and after 8 years, it's time for a new beginning.

 

[The Grand Lucifarius]

Seeing IceBeezy speak that way about Mario Galaxy makes me hate the new Banjo game again.

I cannot accept this slight against the hive to go unchecked. Blood will follow blood

 

[joshcryer]

Is it wrong of me to say that this game may be the one to compell me to get a 360?

 

[Mutagenic]

Yeah, you keep lying to yourself. I guess if it makes you happy, who am I to stop you?

I refuse to go down that road again. Been there, done that. I completely disagree with you. Case closed.