The Malazan Book Of The Fallen |OT| Bared teeth and shaved knuckles
- Thread starter FutureZombie
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True, but the problem is that it's a shitty way of writing.
Half the characters and plot threads were completely meaningless page fillers. If someone remixed MBOF and cut out the crap so that it's five books instead of ten it'd be the greatest fantasy series of all time.
The Illiterati
Member
I'd also disagree that most of it is filler and meaningless. I'd argue that most every character served some goal, whether it was to attain ascendancy or end up as chaff by the end of the book. I mean, the bulk of them DO die, that's why it's called the book of the fallen.
Or you're just complaining about the philosophizing they do, (which by the way, there's an in world explanation why they ALL do it) which if you consider "meaningless" then I guess you think only things that move the plot are worthwhile.
I'm with capslock in that I think you could cut the whole thing in half and it would be better for it.
The philosophizing was so bad at times I would just start skipping pages until I reached either dialogue or descriptions of someone doing something. This could sometimes take 10 pages.
I also believe you could cut out quite a number of characters. Edit: but even then my problem doesn't really lie with the number of characters or any particular set of characters. More than for each character, you could cut 30-40% of the pages that involve them and lose almost nothing of value.
The philosophizing was so bad at times I would just start skipping pages until I reached either dialogue or descriptions of someone doing something. This could sometimes take 10 pages.
I also believe you could cut out quite a number of characters. Edit: but even then my problem doesn't really lie with the number of characters or any particular set of characters. More than for each character, you could cut 30-40% of the pages that involve them and lose almost nothing of value.
FutureZombie
Banned
Except she's hilarious and one of the best characters!
The Illiterati
Member
Sorry, this is valueless to me. If you skipped pages, you literally don't know what was said in those pages, and you don't know what their meaning was, and you don't know what the point was. I've seen this in TV threads too, were people fast forward when Skylar is on screen. Instantly makes your opinion valueless in my mind. If you've got ADD, get another series.
It means I had put up with enough valueless bullshit by those books that I wouldn't tolerate anymore. No, I don't know what was said on those pages I skipped but I know what was said on the thousands of valueless pages I did read, wish I hadn't read, and can use to infer the value of what I am about to read.
ChimpBottle
Member
Man, I really wish the writer made it a little easier to follow. It's not like I have poor reading comprehension, it's just that I'm the type of person who doesn't like to move on in a book until he fully understands what he just read. To me, his inability or unwillingness to translate the story and universe clearly to a first time reader is simply a big flaw. I know some people admire it, but I just see it as a problem.
I read the first book, and I actually enjoyed it, characters were great, and the setting seemed interesting, but I felt a lot of times that I was left out of the plot or that I must have missed something because the characters just go off talking about things that are never explained to the reader. When I started the second book and realized it took place on a new contingent and I'd have to deal with that shit all over again I stopped.
I read the first book, and I actually enjoyed it, characters were great, and the setting seemed interesting, but I felt a lot of times that I was left out of the plot or that I must have missed something because the characters just go off talking about things that are never explained to the reader. When I started the second book and realized it took place on a new contingent and I'd have to deal with that shit all over again I stopped.
Looks like Erickson has a GAF account.
I started reading Gardens of the Moon a long time ago but then I stopped halfway through, it was hard to follow. I'm currently reading The Black Company series, once I'm finished with that I'm gonna give Malazan another go.
Oh and if you're into metal you're gonna love Caladan Brood.
Oh and if you're into metal you're gonna love Caladan Brood.
"The lineup consists of Shield Anvil (keyboards, guitars, vocals, bass, programming) and Mortal Sword (guitars, vocals, additional keyboards)." Even the names of the songs are based on the books. I'm actually kinda curious now.
I'm loving this series. Currently on Midnight Tides. The one about the cannibal army was incredible.
I got about 1/4 (maybe 1/2) into the second book (Deadhouse Gates) before I didn't have to read it in my spare time and then forgot about it and jumped onto some other books.
However I have had fun reading it. I'm really digging the whole large scale multiple events thing. How there's no one major hero to save all of space and time, but how everyone interacts and contributes in their own way to different things.
Coolest character I've encountered so far has to be that T'lan Imass dude. I expect he'll fuck shit up like a badass. Anomander Drake artwork makes him look like a boss too.
However I have had fun reading it. I'm really digging the whole large scale multiple events thing. How there's no one major hero to save all of space and time, but how everyone interacts and contributes in their own way to different things.
Coolest character I've encountered so far has to be that T'lan Imass dude. I expect he'll fuck shit up like a badass. Anomander Drake artwork makes him look like a boss too.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
The highs of the second and third books where legendary. I still can't believe I continued after the first book because I knew nothing if the series before I picked up the first one on a whim.
When I first started I absolutely hated how everything change constantly. I wanted to stick with Tool, or Ganoes Paran, or someone from Darujhistan. Gradually came to love it and honestly, I can only think of one other book in a different style that I like more.
I think Tool is the Imass you're talking about and he's so badass. He's one of the characters that recurs throughout the series and is incredibly cool. But it's Anomander Rake ;p or Anomandaris Purake if we're using his Tiste name.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
Great series. On Dust of Dreams and I'm finding it hard to stay interested, however. I'm so close to finishing the series, I kinda want to push through, which I rarely do
That's how I felt. It was like you just have to push through book one. As soon as book two got into the chain of dogs story line I couldn't stop reading and I wanted to read about all the different pov characters.
Echoes of Battle is so fucking good.
I'm with Woodland. Finished GoTM and most of Deadhouse gates. Didn't have enough time to dedicate to it when I was reading it. Still I love what I have read.
Deadhouse is an order of magnitude better than Gardens so no one should quit on the series without at least trying Deadhouse in my opinion. If Deadhouse doesnt do it for you then this is not the series for you.
Plan to read it all this year for 50 book 50 movies 2014.
Tizoc
Member
So I decided to give this series a read since from what I gathered it's more character-centric, which I've come to like in comics, etc.
I'm in book 1 and am reading the first chapter 'Pale'. I am barely able to understnad what the events and dialog are about but I take it the hooded men took the fishergirl so
I'm in book 1 and am reading the first chapter 'Pale'. I am barely able to understnad what the events and dialog are about but I take it the hooded men took the fishergirl so
they can use her a spy or assassin among the Empress' domain?
fredrancour
Member
I only read GotM, several years ago. I just bought the audiobook to listen to because I don't remember much of it.
Need to get back into this. Think I've read up to Reaper's Gale but will probably reread the start again since it's been such a long time.
Erikson is just amazing. I love the way he names characters and races and whathot. Just so bad ass.
You know shits going down when a T'lan Imass Bonecaster gets involved.
Erikson is just amazing. I love the way he names characters and races and whathot. Just so bad ass.
You know shits going down when a T'lan Imass Bonecaster gets involved.
Great that this thread was revived!
I just started Memories of Ice after being blown away by Deadhouse Gates.
I've only read two chapters of Memories of Ice so far, but the amount of stuff already in motion is staggering.
The series started out pretty dense and complicated but now I've got the hang of it and it's easy going (thus far anyway).
I just started Memories of Ice after being blown away by Deadhouse Gates.
I've only read two chapters of Memories of Ice so far, but the amount of stuff already in motion is staggering.
The Crippled God, Paran, Silverfox, Toc the Younger, Fucking Kallor(!)
The series started out pretty dense and complicated but now I've got the hang of it and it's easy going (thus far anyway).
I'm convinced Erikson is a proper genius to be able to write so many books with such an immensely complicated story and characters in so little time. I've read the first 4 books (IIRC) and simply was so overwhelmed by the number of characters (many of them using different names according to the story) that I just couldn't follow what was going on anymore. So I dropped it 
Great stuff, just not for me.
Great stuff, just not for me.
On first read, Gardens of the Moon is a frankly appalling book, so much so I'm amazed that anyone actually read the second book on release before the weight of "it's so great, you've got to read through it" forced people to plough through it on to the 2nd book.
I actually like the series, not sure it's worthy of all the praise it gets though, even at the end there are bunch of loose ends and story threads left hanging, and some really muddled story line in between. But to those reading the series for the first time it really is the sort of thing you have plough through the first book and a half before making any real judgement.
GOTM becomes a better read on re-read after reading the first 4 books of the series.
I actually like the series, not sure it's worthy of all the praise it gets though, even at the end there are bunch of loose ends and story threads left hanging, and some really muddled story line in between. But to those reading the series for the first time it really is the sort of thing you have plough through the first book and a half before making any real judgement.
GOTM becomes a better read on re-read after reading the first 4 books of the series.
In essence, yes. This will all be revealed in due time in the book, but if need a clearer explanation :
The hooded men were the gods Cotillion and Shadowthrone. Cotillion is possessing the girl and thus controlling her actions.
Not totally dissaponting but some major characters totally felt under the bus. They were built up to be way more important for the overall story.
I haven't started any of the side story books and won't do for a while (need a break after i powered through the 10 Books), but i hope that some characters get mentioned again in them.
FutureZombie
Banned
I jumped back in to the Malazan world this month and read Night of Knives.
This is the first Esslemont novel I've read, and I have to say I am disappointed. This book takes place between the prologue and first chapter of Gardens of the Moon, yet it really did not reveal much. I expected and wanted to learn a lot more about Kellanved and Dancer, but instead this book focused on two new characters that were not very interesting. Esslemont certainly does not have the humor or wit that Erickson has, either. I hope that at some point we get to learn more about the founding of the empire and exactly what Kellanved and Dancer did while they went missing. Unfortunately, this novel did not expand what we already knew about those times.
It's amazing to me that I've read 11 books in this series, and I still feel like I have only gotten a glimpse of a fraction of this huge universe.
The good news is, we may finally get some answers, albeit in a different format:
Potential Malazan Pen and Paper RPG
It's like Erickson and Esslemont have been holding information from us for whatever reason. Let us in on the private party, guys. And maps! Give me maps, goddammit!
This is the first Esslemont novel I've read, and I have to say I am disappointed. This book takes place between the prologue and first chapter of Gardens of the Moon, yet it really did not reveal much. I expected and wanted to learn a lot more about Kellanved and Dancer, but instead this book focused on two new characters that were not very interesting. Esslemont certainly does not have the humor or wit that Erickson has, either. I hope that at some point we get to learn more about the founding of the empire and exactly what Kellanved and Dancer did while they went missing. Unfortunately, this novel did not expand what we already knew about those times.
It's amazing to me that I've read 11 books in this series, and I still feel like I have only gotten a glimpse of a fraction of this huge universe.
The good news is, we may finally get some answers, albeit in a different format:
Potential Malazan Pen and Paper RPG
It's like Erickson and Esslemont have been holding information from us for whatever reason. Let us in on the private party, guys. And maps! Give me maps, goddammit!
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I finished up Toll the Hounds a week or so ago, and it became my favorite in the series. Really meaningful with some great prose and wonderful sense of inevitability. I love this series for all of the philosophizing the characters do and the really intricate way the plot comes together.
I'm currently about 1/3 of the way into Dust of Dreams, and it's been great so far.
I'm currently about 1/3 of the way into Dust of Dreams, and it's been great so far.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
I jumped back in to the Malazan world this month and read Night of Knives.
This is the first Esslemont novel I've read, and I have to say I am disappointed. This book takes place between the prologue and first chapter of Gardens of the Moon, yet it really did not reveal much. I expected and wanted to learn a lot more about Kellanved and Dancer, but instead this book focused on two new characters that were not very interesting. Esslemont certainly does not have the humor or wit that Erickson has, either. I hope that at some point we get to learn more about the founding of the empire and exactly what Kellanved and Dancer did while they went missing. Unfortunately, this novel did not expand what we already knew about those times.
It's amazing to me that I've read 11 books in this series, and I still feel like I have only gotten a glimpse of a fraction of this huge universe.
The good news is, we may finally get some answers, albeit in a different format:
Potential Malazan Pen and Paper RPG
It's like Erickson and Esslemont have been holding information from us for whatever reason. Let us in on the private party, guys. And maps! Give me maps, goddammit!
Man, thats disappointing. I was looking forward to jumping back into the world through the Esslemont books. Ah well
FutureZombie
Banned
I'm still going to go through and read the rest of the Esslemont books. After all, Erickson's first novel was his worst. Plus the second Esslemont book features Traveler, and he is one of the most mysterious characters. I really want to learn more about his relationship with
Hood
I really need to finish this series. Finished Reaper's Gale and RotCG, but stopped reading the series for almost 2 years. Trying to decide if I should start over from the beginning or pick up at Toll the Hounds. I probably remember enough of the story to be able to finish the series and not be completely lost, but I know I will have missed out on a lot of things.
The Illiterati
Member
The Esslemont books do get better, and fill in a bunch of cool details. However, if you haven't started to read the prequel Kharkanas series(only the first one, Forge of Darkness is out), it's incredible, IMO. I hate prequels, and the Tiste Andii parts of the original series always felt like low points....but this book flipped all of it on its head. After the next two come out, the series with be completely recontextualized, which in my mind, is the best goal for a prequel.
BrokenFiction
Member
This is interesting, because I didn't want to touch the prequel books with a ten foot pole. And I adored the Malazan sequence. Maybe I'll reconsider now...
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
Thanks for the info, that's probably what I'll check out first
FutureZombie
Banned
So there's the Tiste Andii trilogy, a future Toblakai trilogy (hopefully centering on Karsa Orlong), and a bunch of novellas about Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. What other characters would you all like to see expanded on?
For me, the top five characters I'd like to see get their own books or trilogies are:
1) Kellanved and Dancer
2) Kallor
3) Gothos
4) Quick Ben
5) Lady Envy and the Seguleh
For me, the top five characters I'd like to see get their own books or trilogies are:
1) Kellanved and Dancer
2) Kallor
3) Gothos
4) Quick Ben
5) Lady Envy and the Seguleh
GingerNathan
Member
My favourite fantasy book series by far, I waited years to read it as I held off until The Crippled God was released (hate reading a book series where I have to wait between books), I've read it through twice since then.
How Erikson managed to keep hold of all the complex threads, story arcs and still mange to conclude the series in a satisfying way indicates he's a bloody genius. Wish there were more authors like him.
The story arc of Onos T'oolan is genuinely emotional.
How Erikson managed to keep hold of all the complex threads, story arcs and still mange to conclude the series in a satisfying way indicates he's a bloody genius. Wish there were more authors like him.
The story arc of Onos T'oolan is genuinely emotional.
I read the first book some time last year. The only thing I remember about it was that it was the most confusing book that I've ever read. IIRC the book loved to throw characters at you, but doesn't really explain who they were. You got a better understanding once the book was over, but I can't say that it held my attention.
I also had no idea which side I was supposed to be rooting for... I do intend to give the series another chance later.
I also had no idea which side I was supposed to be rooting for... I do intend to give the series another chance later.
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