Depends why it was hard to read, tbh.
The Malazan Book Of The Fallen |OT| Bared teeth and shaved knuckles
- Thread starter FutureZombie
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Depends why it was hard to read, tbh.
Just stay away. If you enjoy tons of deus ex machina in your fantasy books then by all means read the series.
elrechazado
Banned
Deus ex plus dbz style power levels that arbitrarily ramp up for reasons
Mighty Chin
Banned
I keep meaning to read this. I'll try get to this soon.
Urghh the fucking worst. Felt like I was reading some weird DBZ fanfic spin off at times. You get another power level, and you get another power level. He introduces you to what seems like 500 different characters, but in the end I only really cared about a handful of them. This guy is super powerful well sike here's another guy who is far more powerful than the last dude.
hendersonhank
Member
I always get the impression these are kind of similar to Glen Cook's Black Company series, is that accurate at all?
CornBurrito
Member
Oh fuck I shouldn't have bought the first book on impulse
And then there's people who like it despite the deus ex and shallow, cardboard cut-out characters. The man can tell a good tale and the world building is in the upper echelon of the genre.
That said, if by the end of the first book you're not feeling it then don't go on. It's more of the same.
One of my all time favorite series. I've read the first 5-6 books multiple times, but the last couple of books were a chore to get thru at times with all the internal monologues from soldiers and those children wandering the desert. Still, no one writes payoffs as good as Erikson (there is no C in there, try to spell the name right at least).
Might be time for a reread actually.
Might be time for a reread actually.
FutureZombie
Banned
I think everyone agrees that the series gets much better after the first book. At least read the first two books. If you don't enjoy the Chain of Dogs arc, then you can give up. But the second book is the one that hooked me.
There are a lot of flaws in this series, but the characters are not one of them. There is such a wide range of personalities in this series.
My favorite fantasy series, I love it a lot.
About to start Assail. ICE's stuff can't compare to Erikson, but it's reasonably entertaining and I just love this world so much.
About to start Assail. ICE's stuff can't compare to Erikson, but it's reasonably entertaining and I just love this world so much.
"Power levels" are kinda meaningless though, since the series constantly subverts it. You have all these ancient Gods and ascendants who supposedly are these huge badasses who are then easily disposed of by a lowly marine with primitive explosives.
BrokenFiction
Member
It's really on a different level than most epic fantasy. Is there a word beyond epic?
I've read ICE's Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard. The latter was much better than the former, but well below the quality/capability of Erikson. That having been said, it's still better than 75% of the fantasy out there. I've got Stonebreaker sitting my shelf; I think I'll crack it next.
Yes a lot were but also quite a few had little depth at all. Any number of the rambling marines were interchangeable and new chars just keep popping up all the time with little rhyme or reason given and were dropped never to be heard of again.
The first book is a terrible slog, and frankly only really makes sense as a work on a re-read after maybe you've read the next 3 books, even then it's not a particularly great book.
The Illiterati
Member
The only reason I'd say to avoid reading it now is that the wait for the second part(and eventual third) has been terrible for me. They're not prequels in which you can read them before the main series, because they naturally begin to answer questions that have been built up as you read the main books. But seriously, these books are thrilling if you're well versed in the series. It really delves into every elder god/race and completely shatters your notions of them. Slight spoilers(just how the book begins):
Most importantly, it focuses on the creation of the three Tiste races and the warrens. The book starts in the typical Erikson confusing way, but only if you've read the series, cause here's the rub: You've got these famously divided races of Andii/Edur/Liosan, right? As of the beginning of the book they are all the same color/race and they're living in the perfectly normal Kurald Galain. As a cherry on top, the builders of the Azath houses are also main characters.
You've also got Hood's war on death explained, the ascendancy of many of what the main series considers "elder" gods(they're just people, and even they have their own Elder Gods), etc.
You've also got Hood's war on death explained, the ascendancy of many of what the main series considers "elder" gods(they're just people, and even they have their own Elder Gods), etc.
It's incredibly interesting and satisfying.
BrokenFiction
Member
Argh. I hate waiting.
Didn't know this op was here. I really enjoyed these books, I got to book 6 or 7 before running out of steam. Eventually I plan to start over and get all the way through - this time taking notes so that I remember what the hell is going on.
It's funny when you read such big books from one author, certain word choices start really popping out as unusual in normal language but an author's favorite. Everything in these books is the color of ochre. and everyone's pates are very sweaty.
It's funny when you read such big books from one author, certain word choices start really popping out as unusual in normal language but an author's favorite. Everything in these books is the color of ochre. and everyone's pates are very sweaty.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Yeah, Toll the Hounds was really incredible. Very different from the rest of the series tonally, but in a really emotional way. Definitely my favorite so far (I'll see if Dust of Dreams, which I'm currently reading, or The Crippled God can compare).
Indeed. While there are certainly some very powerful characters around, it's a pretty consistent theme of the series that power isn't really everything, and you regularly see supposedly powerful gods getting taken down by average joes, such as
Ublala Pung taking down the Toblakai gods
Masan Gilani taking down two T'rolbarahl
elrechazado
Banned
Too bad it's all completely meaningless to the entire series.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
OP you made me interested in reading this series, but your descriptions reminded me a bit of this the onion video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIy_uLF6xI8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIy_uLF6xI8
Sneaky Gato
Member
Good series. I find it weird that I'm one of the few people who seems to like the first book though.
BrokenFiction
Member
Nah, I'm with you. It's not easy, and it doesn't hold your hand, but I loved it. Granted I loved DG even more, and I think DG and MOI make Gardens even better on reflection.
Hey, I'm like 1/3 of the way through Gardens of the Moon and I think I like it. The problem is keeping track of what's happening, to whom and where. This was a problem with A Song of Ice and Fire, but it's like 10 times worse here. Any tips or (non-spoilery) resources for figuring out what's happening?
Keep reading the series. It eventually all makes sense. It's not necessary to know what's happening till later so just enjoy thing story. Oh and this series is kinda awful for people blurting stuff out on the net so be careful. Hit a couple of major spoilers just reading the short google intro on search results.
http://www.tor.com/features/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen is pretty great. Maybe don't read Bill's commentary and the comments. The summary and Amanda's commentary is totally spoiler free.
I actually prefer Esslemonts books, his writing isn't as complicated and uh.. convoluted.
My problem with the Garden of the Moon is that it's just a really rough book for it being the first in a series someone compared it to A Game of Thrones and I would have to disagree, AGOT eased you into the plot gradually and didn't throw too many things at you at once and the majority of the characters outside of Tyrion and Catelyn stayed where they were.
As opposed to where even 3/4th of into the book I was still at a lost as to what was happening, how the magic worked, what the Gods had to do with anything, etc.
I really want to like this series in fact I'm reading DG right now and It's flowing a little better than Garden of Moon already but it's still a bit difficult to follow.
As opposed to where even 3/4th of into the book I was still at a lost as to what was happening, how the magic worked, what the Gods had to do with anything, etc.
I really want to like this series in fact I'm reading DG right now and It's flowing a little better than Garden of Moon already but it's still a bit difficult to follow.
Wiktor
Member
No, Gardens is very rough. I would say he should stick to half of 2nd book. Chain of Dogs is the moment a lot of people get drawned into the series for good
That was my problem too...It got better towards the end. Now I'm on the second book and about 60% of the cast is new so I'm having that problem again.
I like it so far though (even though I've put the series on hold in favour of Sapkowski's Witcher books) and the world seems incredibly rich and thought through. I generally like being thrown into stories/situation where I don't know everything that's going on until later, but with this books, it's sometimes almost too extreme.
I just finished the whole series and I must say that it was a really amazing journey.
The only thing I didn't enjoy was
but the rest of it was really fantastic. I can't really see myself reading any more Malazan-books for a while though, I feel pretty "done" with the series for the moment. I probably will read more after a while though.
End of last book question for those who have read it. Really big SPOILER below, not even kidding:
The only thing I didn't enjoy was
the childrens trek through the desert
End of last book question for those who have read it. Really big SPOILER below, not even kidding:
So, the Crippled God was stabbed to death by Cotillion. My interpretation was that it was necessary for him to be able to go back to where he came from since his mortal form wasn't suitable to travel there. Or was it all just a play by Cotillion & co to get rid of him?
thereisnoif
Member
I read several of the books but haven't gotten around to reading the latest few. Every time I think about reading the new books I don't because I feel so lost since it's been some time since I read the others.
Fallout-NL
Member
I've read two of these now and I fail to see the appeal. It never succeeds in congealing into a satisfying whole and it's just being cryptic for cryptic's sake it seems. There's no payoff to it being a bunch of incomprehensible nonsense with a thousand different characters
Yeah, I don't like it.
Yeah, I don't like it.
I finished the whole Wheel of Time, so I might be more used to having 1000s of characters and cryptic bullshit (it does pay off in WoT anyway).
Don't get me started on the Prince of Nothing series though, finishing the first one was agony.
Fallout-NL
Member
Oh you know what did come in handy? I consulted the Malazan wiki on my phone every time I had forgotten about the significance of character, object or some other piece of lore. That helped somewhat.
It's an awesome series, even more so now that basic things like a MAP and a timeline have been formed by the fanbase.
It's not THAT complicated a plot. Basically the Malazans are kinda like a cross between the British and the Romans, and island nation slowly conquering the rest of the world (that they know about). But each place has, naturally, their own civilization and most of the books deal with these conflicts. The magic system is based on "warrens", each with their own flavor, kinda like airbending versus waterbending, and yeah, with enough willpower you can become a god in your own right.
Heck, the K'chain Che'malle even show up in ASOIAF!
It's not THAT complicated a plot. Basically the Malazans are kinda like a cross between the British and the Romans, and island nation slowly conquering the rest of the world (that they know about). But each place has, naturally, their own civilization and most of the books deal with these conflicts. The magic system is based on "warrens", each with their own flavor, kinda like airbending versus waterbending, and yeah, with enough willpower you can become a god in your own right.
Heck, the K'chain Che'malle even show up in ASOIAF!
FutureZombie
Banned
My understanding was he had to die to travel back to his realm. I believe Cotillion and Shadowthrone wanted the Crippled God to go back to his own realm so the other gods couldn't leach power from him. I think it's implied that somehow Cotillion and Shadowthrone were communicating with Tavore, so they were all on the same page about sending the Crippled God back home.
Yeah, that's how I read it as well.
Time for a bump!
So I just finished Gardens of the Moon. Great read.
It took a little while to really grab me, the stuff in Pale after the battle was kinda boring, but when the plot shifted to Darujhistan I was hooked.
I have to say, the statements about complexity were pretty exaggerated. I don't think this was complicated at all, you just have to stop trying to understand everything. It's pretty damn obvious there's a bunch of stuff Erikson doesn't intend for the reader to understand yet, and you just have to go with it. The main plot is perfectly manageable.
I also really like the diversity in the cast, both in gender and ethnicity. It's very refreshing to read fantasy featuring black and dark-skinned characters in diverse roles. Kalam and Quick Ben are fucking awesome. Rallick is great too.
Suffice to say, I'm buying Deadhouse Gates first thing tomorrow.
So I just finished Gardens of the Moon. Great read.
It took a little while to really grab me, the stuff in Pale after the battle was kinda boring, but when the plot shifted to Darujhistan I was hooked.
I have to say, the statements about complexity were pretty exaggerated. I don't think this was complicated at all, you just have to stop trying to understand everything. It's pretty damn obvious there's a bunch of stuff Erikson doesn't intend for the reader to understand yet, and you just have to go with it. The main plot is perfectly manageable.
I also really like the diversity in the cast, both in gender and ethnicity. It's very refreshing to read fantasy featuring black and dark-skinned characters in diverse roles. Kalam and Quick Ben are fucking awesome. Rallick is great too.
Suffice to say, I'm buying Deadhouse Gates first thing tomorrow.
After running through a couple books in the series, I feel like Gardens is the worst one in the series. I've read through it a couple times now and I decided to get the audiobook version. That... wasn't a good idea. Malazan doesn't really translate that well into audiobook unless you're just in it for the action bits. Those are awesome in audiobook form, everything else just sort of suffers from not being able to check back on details easily. Anyway Deadhouse is pretty good, I went two books in further before slowing down due to work.
FutureZombie
Banned
The large majority of Malazans have dark or bluish skin. What I especially like about this is that it is really doesn't matter what color someone is in this world. There is literally no discussion of skin tone other then people from different regions have different skin colors.
I'd say it's Anomander Rake with Dragnipur standing in front of Darujhistan. It could also be Lorn with the otataral sword but the figure looks manly to me.
Here's the cover of Gardens of the Moon that I read which is obviously him.
But isn't Dragnipur supposed to be all black? And that looks way too small to be Darujhistan, right?
I don't know, it just doesn't look like any place from the book to me. I guess it has to be Darujhistan.
And yeah, I've seen that cover. It's damn awesome.
Yea, you're right but some cover artists are commissioned by the publisher though and may have very little knowledge of what they are drawing. The city is showing tiered, walled off sections and a magical sword with a mysterious black figure. Maybe that's all the artist knew about the book. Apparently your cover is the UK version and this is the US version:
Bonus pic:
Bonus pic:
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
There's no Lake Azur beyond it either, and those plateaus and mountains to the left should be to the right if they're supposed to be the Gadrobi Hills. I think in most fantasy books the cover artwork has little to nothing to do with the actual content of the book unfortunately.
I spent my entire read trying to figure out who those two are. Paran and Lorn? Whiskeyjack and Sorry? By the end I just decided someone drew random fantasy characters and plastered them on the cover.
Anyway, I have Deadhouse Gates and should be starting it soon.
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