Oh the irony.
Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
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Good post BurnOutBrighter.
It's a real problem. I'm unsure how big it is, but nice mannered and otherwise well-adjusted people are really suffering.
That documentary is very hard to watch. Very painful stuff.
It's a real problem. I'm unsure how big it is, but nice mannered and otherwise well-adjusted people are really suffering.
That documentary is very hard to watch. Very painful stuff.
CountAntonius
Member
This is such a stupid bullshit post that I have to comment on it. I care about the victims to the point where I think there is absolutely nothing gained by calling this guy an evil piece of shit and calling it a day. It is important to dissect social, mental and whatever other reasons people do this to help prevent more innocent people dying from bullshit like this. Identifying with parts of him wasn't to get attention for oneself but show a very personal example of how people can and do get better and lament that this guy did not. Not only for himself but the victims he took and the many who have been taken in similar situations. These murders didn't have to fucking happen neither do the one's the will continue to happen. It's absurdly twisted how you choose to view a sincere post that may not be as black and white as your world view. I agree gaf is very fucking scary right now because it shows how goddamn quickly some of you are to judge, attack and assume.
Now I'll go back to shutting the fuck up.
This is completely wrong and undermines these women as humans.
cpp_is_king
Member
I'm always fascinated by how the brain is such a crazy and chaotic organism that one little sensory input (such as what he mentions in his manifesto as the first time he had a bad encounter with a girl, at a summer camp somewhere) can spiral out of control so easily and create such despair in one's mind. Was he perfectly normal before this event? Whatever happened in his mind that day seems to be the catalyst for his subsequent downward spiral. It makes me wonder if this kind of thing could happen to anyone. The wrong signal goes to the wrong receptor in your brain, and bam you trigger this thought that festers in your head which you can't get out, which ends up leading to this ultimate chain reaction of things that eventually lead to you sinking deeper and deeper into despair like this until you literally just lose it.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The better looking you are the more options you have. These guys feel that they wanna look like Chris Hemsworth because they think that will that will help them out.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It truly comes off as ego and "look at me." It seems they think the things they feel or have experienced aren't as universal as they are. They think they're special. We all get it.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Honestly, If the tables were turned and he did have a girlfriend, the ironic thing is I imagine that other guys would've viewed him with the same contempt he had towards the guys in his manifesto. I mean "rich, handsome assholes" is usually the kind of man "Nice Guys" talk about hating all the time.
whynotboth.gif
Any defense of this guy's actions at all just seems like a deflection of the larger issue, that women are at immensely greater risk of violence than men.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
No one owes them anything. But do they deserve to be mocked and ridiculed for not having the tools to interact with people? Do they deserve to be hated by people on the internet? It's so easy to just say "Your views are wrong, I'm right, I'm more enlightened than you" than to ask "Why do you feel this way?"
That's what I'm getting at. It starts with feelings of loneliness and worthlessness. These feelings, if left unaddressed, can turn into anger and blame - blame against women for rejecting them, which turns into misogyny. Like racism, it doesn't happen overnight, you aren't born with it. It's years and years of reinforcement which shapes your views.
Masquerader
Member
This. This is what actually means something. Not whether or not some wrong kid's actions are justified.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
Care to point out any actual examples of that to justify the dramatic language?
Well no shit, but again who is doing this?
There's some weird stuff going on in this thread that is trying to conjure up a chunk of GAF that are somehow like the killer in some way. I'm not sure where it's coming from, as it's not on this thread.
Oh my god.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Okay let me rephrase you don't have to be but it doesn't hurt to be and likely improves your chances.
This thread is getting too crazy man.
This isn't thing that needs Yoda'ing. Its basic fundamental misunderstanding of communication, relationship dynamics, and misplaced self-worth. That's all it is at its root.
Also, I really, really don't like the victimized tone of all that above either.
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus
R10Neymarfan
Member
Well if you're a minority you are automatically at a disadvantage.
But then again...
"Don't you see how hard it is NOT to end up hating women, viewing them as objects and wanting to enslave and murder them?"
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=113431630&postcount=2867
If this isn't about people who are similar to the killer and explaining how they get to where they are, what is it?
Angelus Errare
Banned
As Pau stated, surely you recognize the irony in this right? It's literally staring you in the face dude.
Not that your edit was much better, but like everyone has been saying you're just highlighting the crux of the problem and is why these people don't deserve pity or anything of the sort. The pick of the litter? Women aren't pets/objects nor do obliged to shag someone kid because he thinks he deserves her because he's nice.
Again this very incident shows, you can have all of the listed that are deemed necessary by society and it doesn't change anything. The people who sympathize more with the killer than the victims need help, there is no way to rationalize this or spin this them being the victim of society.
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Yet here we are speaking on this tragic incident.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Nasty cunt isn't he? I place the blame at his feet and his alone. I see no value here trying to rationalise this as a wider societal problem that can be rectified and prevented in future.
freethoughtbubble
Member
No, no, no the terrifying part for me is the potential for violence represented by these people at the fringes. I can sympathize to an extent with young men being fed bullshit and feeling inadequate and depressed as a result -- but my concern is for the potential victims of this utterly senseless violence.
We had right now Burnout:
"At this point he's not entitled or misogynistic, he's just confused and desperate."
"Have you thought that maybe they might be victims too?"
And so on. Now read what Rodgers. Look at what he done.
Erm, repeating your point doesn't make it right or acceptable.
Angelus Errare
Banned
What is even more disgusting are people who actually believe that the women were at fault. I just can't even begin to understand some of the rationale I've read today alone.
Totally. Why have laws at all, right bro?
Basically.
It's clear in watching these videos, that this kid's Asperger's had a helping hand in an early, extreme fixation with women/relationships and coupled with the depression of his parents' divorce made him spiral downwards into a black hole of bitterness and anger that he clearly didn't get sufficient professional help with.
It didn't help that the madness he created for himself was strengthened by a lack of meaningful human interaction among his peers, instead gravitating to narcissistic and misogynistic narratives to help solidify his delusions about himself and others (specifically females and their male partners).
There are plenty of people who suffer from asperger's and depression that don't get violent and go on a killing spree, but there are even more that don't get help and sadly become pariahs among their peers because they are perceived as "weird", "damaged", and to be avoided - who suffer for most of their lives with past negative experiences weighing them down.
Elliot Rodger was an extreme and compounded case of this - and if you take away the narcissism and fixation on women (which is what seems to have kept him going all these years), he likely would have committed suicide a long time ago and added himself to the excess of 30,000 people that kill themselves every year in the US and to the half who kill themselves with firearms.
Nothing excuses Elliot Rodger's murder of young men and women, but it's important to keep in mind that at one point he was just a boy who was lonely, depressed, and suffering and didn't/couldn't get the help he needed.
Like you said, it's important to understand why people did the things that they did to better prevent these things from happening in the future. Just calling them evil and covering your ears and eyes and mind is certainly easier, but it will only create more preventable tragedy in the future.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You guys do realize I'm trying to interpret what these people believe right? I'm not offering justification or saying it's acceptable or anything like that just saying this is how they think.
I don't know why everyone is so eager to jump all over each other in here right now.
I don't know why everyone is so eager to jump all over each other in here right now.
Oh wow. So the guys in the apartment are included in the six? I was worried they weren't.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
There were at least a couple posts where I brought myself up in regards to feeling unattractive, lonely and whatnot and didn't realize it was going to be seen as selfish. I kinda feel crap about it so anything about me I'll keep in the DGAF thread at this point. But I believe everyone here feels sympathy for the victims and their families and certainly nobody in this forum (with one or two banned exceptions) is sympathizing with Rogers that I've seen.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The perception is that people are trying to say "think about the men" for the millionth time instead of "think about women or victims or families."
Read said thread. Hell, On Demand has been drawing comparisons to his own shit and that wasn't even 3 pages ago.
I kinda wish I hadn't read up on all of this though tbh. People online only seem ready to rush forward when its a blatantly obvious suicide in progress.
User 100115
Banned
This thread has gotten even more depressing since I took a nap.
I will say it again: Please, for my sanity, stop identifying with this guy. He wasn't lonely, or shunned, or rejected. He was a piece of shit misogynist who expected women to worship him simply for existing and flew into a violent rage every time they didn't.
I am just baffled at the fact that in this case, his motivations were crystal clear, and it's still getting people to come out of the woodwork with the 'what about the men' stuff.
I will say it again: Please, for my sanity, stop identifying with this guy. He wasn't lonely, or shunned, or rejected. He was a piece of shit misogynist who expected women to worship him simply for existing and flew into a violent rage every time they didn't.
I am just baffled at the fact that in this case, his motivations were crystal clear, and it's still getting people to come out of the woodwork with the 'what about the men' stuff.
Of course it is a problem of our society. Patricharlic, mysogonistic views claimed new victims trough a socially completely disfunctional person. Of course, the blame is on him, but he is a reflection of what is going wrong.
Suffering from mental illness does not free him from personal responsibility for his own actions. He CHOSE to do the things he did.
People should stop defending him and trying to shift the blame. There are plenty of people in the world suffering mental illness just like him who don't resort to killing to vent their frustrations.
People should stop defending him and trying to shift the blame. There are plenty of people in the world suffering mental illness just like him who don't resort to killing to vent their frustrations.
I definitely think that our society's ideas about masculinity harm both men and women, but there is also the factor of choice here and accountability. You can CHOOSE to be misogynistic; no one forces you into misogyny or racism or homophobia. No one can force you to think of women as objects that exist for only your gratification and your gratification alone.
Shaming a man for not living up to some singular dumb masculine ideal is super shitty and something that needs to be addressed today, yes. Shaming someone for choosing to be a misogynist and acting upon such views... eh. I think it should be made very, very clear that what they are doing is wrong, that there are consequences to these actions, and that there are alternative ways to think about people and to behave.
We can simultaneously point out the really fucking shitty world views of people and offer up alternatives such as less restraining definitions about what it means to be a man and what it means to be a woman.
I'm not quite sure what makes you think this is an either or situation.
Again, I don't quite see how he can't be both, or how one couldn't have possibly had any relation to the other.
Tabloids are the fucking mockery of our society.
Perhaps it will lead to understanding the aspects which lead to the kid turning into a psychopath so we an prevent it from happening in the future. Or do you believe he was born a psychopath?
Scofield94941
Member
My biggest problem with the manifesto and him in general is that he seemed to think these girls would come up to him. How could he think like this? There was a part where he talked about leaving his room everyday walking around his neighborhood and bookstores hoping and praying a girl would come up to him and talk to him. Then he'd get even more angry and depressed and enraged when seeing girls and guys together.
He was lonely BECAUSE he created his own loneliness. I just don't understand how he thought he was so entitled (maybe him coming from money?) that girls had to approach him.
Guys who identify with him need to take a step back. If you identify with him that means you blame everything on everyone else but yourself. He says that society is hell. You created your own hell buddy.
Oh and I cannot believe the police did not search his place. They get called about worrying mother or healthworker and they listen to him say it was a misunderstanding and leave. I can actually see the officers playing into his words and believing him which makes me more upset that he actually got to go through with this. It was soooo close to us never knowing who this guy was and him never allowing to hurt anyone.
He was lonely BECAUSE he created his own loneliness. I just don't understand how he thought he was so entitled (maybe him coming from money?) that girls had to approach him.
Guys who identify with him need to take a step back. If you identify with him that means you blame everything on everyone else but yourself. He says that society is hell. You created your own hell buddy.
Oh and I cannot believe the police did not search his place. They get called about worrying mother or healthworker and they listen to him say it was a misunderstanding and leave. I can actually see the officers playing into his words and believing him which makes me more upset that he actually got to go through with this. It was soooo close to us never knowing who this guy was and him never allowing to hurt anyone.
entremet
Member
I would agree here. Men are shamed for not having enough sexual experience and women shamed for the opposite.
He ultimately decided to commit those vile acts sadly. But I would agree modern society has become toxic--unrealistic expectation fostered by photoshopped images harming women and creating an unrealistic expectation for young men--no not all women are barbie dolls ands you don't ''deserve'' them for existing.
It's an interesting side discourse. Hopefully some good comes out of this.
Carnby
Member
This was an interesting read. Thank you for posting this.
User 100115
Banned
Because for pretty much the first time, a mass killers motivations were laid out in detail. He saw women as objects, and was enraged they weren't worshipping him.
And yet a lot of the conversation is somehow revolving around 'Wow, being lonely and rejected sucks, I know that feel, wouldn't kill people of course, but I know feel'
CountAntonius
Member
What about what he posted was about his self? It was about casting some light on other issues that may have lead to this tragedy.
Yeah I wouldn't have worded it the way he did by calling them possible victims or that they weren't entitled or misogynistic because the killer here obviously was and I understand people feeling that it's disrespectful and not the place for it but that's up to the mods to decide I guess. It's basically like the gun debate popping up when there is a school shooting. It's bound to happen.
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