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"Am I being detained or am I free to go?"
- Thread starter WayneMorse
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Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Not going to take chances on the potential level of stupid, corrupt, and psychotic with a person legally allowed to beat the shit out of you or shoot you for a made-up dehumanizing stare.
I was stopped by a cop once for accidentally going too fast in a school zone. I forgot my damned license - at home in a different jacket. In that case, the cop turned out to be reasonable and let me go because I truthfully told him I would turn around and go home to get my license.
For comparison: I lived in an apartment once which at a batshit insane family across the court who called the police constantly on every other apartment. They were convinced everyone else was trying to rob them, steal their cars, and sometimes lining up sniper rifle shots through their windows. The cops knew they were lunatics and the complex was peaceful. But every time they responded to a call they barged into someone's unit and treated them like drug dealers and were super threatening and cruel.
From my experience there are obviously excellent cops, see incident #1. On the other hand the system is so corrupt and warped, there's way too many jackbooted thugs with guns driving around looking for victims. You can't take the chance.
I was stopped by a cop once for accidentally going too fast in a school zone. I forgot my damned license - at home in a different jacket. In that case, the cop turned out to be reasonable and let me go because I truthfully told him I would turn around and go home to get my license.
For comparison: I lived in an apartment once which at a batshit insane family across the court who called the police constantly on every other apartment. They were convinced everyone else was trying to rob them, steal their cars, and sometimes lining up sniper rifle shots through their windows. The cops knew they were lunatics and the complex was peaceful. But every time they responded to a call they barged into someone's unit and treated them like drug dealers and were super threatening and cruel.
From my experience there are obviously excellent cops, see incident #1. On the other hand the system is so corrupt and warped, there's way too many jackbooted thugs with guns driving around looking for victims. You can't take the chance.
You gonna also ask a cop if he can trust a brown person?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Fuck no, trust is earned. Prove to me you can be trusted, I'm just not going to give you trust because you're a cop.
Do you trust random people you see on the streets?
Nope.
KernelPanic
Member
That video by Barry Scheck says it best.
"Don't talk to the police."
Just be cooperative and say as little as possible.
"Don't talk to the police."
Just be cooperative and say as little as possible.
I like to breathe and be conscious and alive, i like people talking about me in the present tense, not in the past tense with a sad look on their face. And i don't want people coming to visit me on memorial day wearing a shirt with my birthday on it nor do I want Al Sharpton speaking on TV about the "Kimawolf" incident, so no I simply say yes or no, then take my ticket or them being an asshole and leave.
You have to understand, to the poster Kiggi, that minorities and immigrants, or anyone without an "american" accent, are treated VASTLY different than the white male majority. they can get away with screaming and all that, we can't.
Especially in Kansas city where our police shoot first all the time and will shoot you just because, your best bet is to play along.
It's sad but in America I've come to look at the police force as one giant gang who has legal authority to detain, beat, and kill you on their whim.
It will not change until people realize that they are losing all their basic rights and their police officers are acting more like a hostile military force than "public servants". Until that happens it'll only get worse.
edit: No I don't trust any cop, I only pull over on busy streets or places with people and I ALWAYS make sure everything is visible. I used to let my phone record in the passenger seat or in my pocket because you'd be a fool to let them have the only narrative. the entire justice system is rigged.
You have to understand, to the poster Kiggi, that minorities and immigrants, or anyone without an "american" accent, are treated VASTLY different than the white male majority. they can get away with screaming and all that, we can't.
Especially in Kansas city where our police shoot first all the time and will shoot you just because, your best bet is to play along.
It's sad but in America I've come to look at the police force as one giant gang who has legal authority to detain, beat, and kill you on their whim.
It will not change until people realize that they are losing all their basic rights and their police officers are acting more like a hostile military force than "public servants". Until that happens it'll only get worse.
edit: No I don't trust any cop, I only pull over on busy streets or places with people and I ALWAYS make sure everything is visible. I used to let my phone record in the passenger seat or in my pocket because you'd be a fool to let them have the only narrative. the entire justice system is rigged.
dream
Member
I agree with you, and this is why I subscribe to the "stop snitching" movement too.
Basketball
Member
terrisus
Member
I give people the benefit of the doubt until they show otherwise, yes.
Axelhortsemchi
Member
As many others have already said, police quality varies wildly throughout the U.S., and it only takes a single bad run-in to make you feel unsafe around police.
In my case, I got pulled over on fabricated reasons while driving home from a bar trip. I hadn't been drinking much, so it was no issue until I got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt WHILE WEARING THE SEATBELT and started second-guessing myself. The officer remains adamant that I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and outright lies about me slurring my speech in order to get a DUI investigator out there. He messes with me for a while and tells me the bar I went to didn't exist, and after a good 5-10 minutes of that, he has me blow. They didn't tell me what I blew, but it was far enough below a .08 to where they just immediately gave up and let me go, but not without first writing me a ticket for not wearing the seatbelt I was wearing that I had to go and get dismissed. The whole thing was terrifying at the time, but it just makes me angry to think about now. This particular police force is bad to everyone, though I do feel like they would have tried to keep me longer if I was a minority.
So yeah, when I see police cars, my first instinct is to assume that they're out to prey on someone. It's not the case for a lot of police, but they've pretty much been ruined for me as a collective.
In my case, I got pulled over on fabricated reasons while driving home from a bar trip. I hadn't been drinking much, so it was no issue until I got pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt WHILE WEARING THE SEATBELT and started second-guessing myself. The officer remains adamant that I wasn't wearing a seatbelt and outright lies about me slurring my speech in order to get a DUI investigator out there. He messes with me for a while and tells me the bar I went to didn't exist, and after a good 5-10 minutes of that, he has me blow. They didn't tell me what I blew, but it was far enough below a .08 to where they just immediately gave up and let me go, but not without first writing me a ticket for not wearing the seatbelt I was wearing that I had to go and get dismissed. The whole thing was terrifying at the time, but it just makes me angry to think about now. This particular police force is bad to everyone, though I do feel like they would have tried to keep me longer if I was a minority.
So yeah, when I see police cars, my first instinct is to assume that they're out to prey on someone. It's not the case for a lot of police, but they've pretty much been ruined for me as a collective.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Must be nice.
Sun Bather
Member
The few times I have been in contact with the police, I was clearly in the wrong (either driving my bike without lights on in the middle of the night, drunk of course) or just doing dumb stuff that you do when you're drunk, like throwing with beer kegs cause you found a whole bunch of them. So I go full on beta and just apologize and try to fix the problem on the spot, so far it has worked and I've never been arrested or fined for anything.
terrisus
Member
I guess?
I said something similar once.
Had just moved into an apartment, everything still in boxes.. my roommate and I are watching TV and get a knock on the door.
It's 2 plain clothes detectives. They asked to see my ID, I went and grabbed it.. they said the neighbors reported me for fighting and selling drugs in the alley... claimed they named me by my full name.
Yeah, right. I informed them that I'd just moved in, and that was impossible since I hadn't even met any of my neighbors let alone given them my full name, and that I certainly haven't been fighting and selling drugs in the alley behind my apartment.
One of the cops, I shit you not, spit at my feet and said "We can do this 2 ways.. we can do this here, or take this downtown."
LOL, straight out of the movies. I informed them they definitely had the wrong person.. and asked them for their badge numbers. They left promptly without giving them to me.
My roommate confronted the neighbors and the wife denied it.. husband was hiding in a back room or something intimidated.. he eventually came to our door and apologized profusely, said the old neighbors were troublemakers and it was a mistake. He brought us a six pack of beer or something.
But still, those cops.. lol.
Had just moved into an apartment, everything still in boxes.. my roommate and I are watching TV and get a knock on the door.
It's 2 plain clothes detectives. They asked to see my ID, I went and grabbed it.. they said the neighbors reported me for fighting and selling drugs in the alley... claimed they named me by my full name.
Yeah, right. I informed them that I'd just moved in, and that was impossible since I hadn't even met any of my neighbors let alone given them my full name, and that I certainly haven't been fighting and selling drugs in the alley behind my apartment.
One of the cops, I shit you not, spit at my feet and said "We can do this 2 ways.. we can do this here, or take this downtown."
LOL, straight out of the movies. I informed them they definitely had the wrong person.. and asked them for their badge numbers. They left promptly without giving them to me.
My roommate confronted the neighbors and the wife denied it.. husband was hiding in a back room or something intimidated.. he eventually came to our door and apologized profusely, said the old neighbors were troublemakers and it was a mistake. He brought us a six pack of beer or something.
But still, those cops.. lol.
Can we be adults and just accept that people complaining about police abuse, fall under the % that the ALCU/Department of justice is reporting is being harassed? Instead of treating us all like we are making shit up, how about just accept that its happening to us? That everyone is noting it, making all sorts of great charts and data showing the abuse against the browns.?
Why can't we do that? Is there something wrong with admitting that the justice system is broken for a certain demographic of the population?
Not all police are the problem. Just the significant % that is creating a significant % of browns being abused by law enforcement. Just that group..
but it seems like a nationwide group, based on postings.
R3TRO
Member
Beer wouldn't fix that...
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
This is true of everyone in authority. They don't like it when someone actually knows shit. Teachers that know less than their students are pretty bad, too.
Why is doing/saying nothing "acting like a criminal"?
entremet
Member
Reminds me of this.
These aren't cops, though. Their border patrol agents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU
These aren't cops, though. Their border patrol agents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU
It was in general not a good neighborhood experience. Wealthy neighborhood; I was a 21 year old making good money, but I didn't fit the "look" of the neighborhood I guess. Dressed young, etc.
I've never been given more dirty looks in my life. Walking around, eating around there, shopping. Hated it.
That same neighbor who brought me the beer failed to come knock on my door to let me know my window was busted out on my car one night. It was a Friday night when it happened, and I had a lazy day planned.. didn't go out to my car until about 2PM. There the neighbor is mowing his lawn, staring right at me and the car... he knew where I lived, knew 100% it was my car, etc. Just kind of uptight assholes. I'm very polite, not loud, etc.. nothing mattered. I was young and when I wasn't in my shirt and tie for work I dressed young, so they hated me.
This is probably the first time I've heard of someone saying this in real life. HAHA
Sounds like a sucky experience, though.
As someone that is not from the US, I have a hard time understanding that kind of stuff. I feel like sentences like this just make it harder, and more annoying, for all the parties involved. Just get it over with - or is the police that untrustworthy in the US?
Or is it literally just a thing of "because I can" - which'd make it a bit ridiculous imo. Is it that hard to be a bit cooperative?
Or is it literally just a thing of "because I can" - which'd make it a bit ridiculous imo. Is it that hard to be a bit cooperative?
I never said what generalization was being made, commedieu. People are going to react to a cop the way are going to react - mostly based on experience. No amount of charts or statistics are going to change peoples' minds (one way or another) until it affects them. Unfortunately.
This... the general stereotype is that cops are some people out to get you no matter what and can't wait to shoot you upon misunderstanding. There are so many encounters with police in U.S that don't go sour, it makes these stereotypes sound stupid.
I am a minority (Black), and don't host such a silly view.
It all depends on what a person been stopped for, how much they cooperated and they're tone when they ask such a question. People don't realize that they can easily give off their feelings towards the cop by asking such a question, so it is to be expected that it would annoy/piss them off. It means they are probably trying to be a wise-ass or be uncooperative. The many Youtube vids out there showing "cop abuse of power" are usually looking for it, or were generally uncooperative from the very beginning. If one make it a hard time for them, they damn sure are likely to make it a hard time for that person.
Some may know their rights, but unless the cop stopping them is being unreasonable or holding them up for something important it is always best to just cooperate and be on they're way.
Just because they may not like authority does not mean they should be a douche. If one find that their rights have been undermined, then they should take it up in court after they got home from the event.
lastplayed
Member
Always blow on the pie.
Edwards_Omatic
Member
Immediately thought of this:
Being honest, if stopped by a copper i'd like to think I would start busting out lines that show I know my rights, but in reality I would probably be a bitch and do what they say.
Being honest, if stopped by a copper i'd like to think I would start busting out lines that show I know my rights, but in reality I would probably be a bitch and do what they say.
The Silver
Member
Looking back on my bad cop experience I'm surprised it ended as peacefully as it did.
Me and my friends were leaving a bar and we were waiting in the car for the driver(he had to go get something), as we're waiting the cops pull up beside us and tell start telling us to get out of the car one by one.(they said there was a fight near by or something).
My friends just exchanged a few words with the police and that was it, now I'm the only black guy in the car, I was just sitting there silently listening to their orders and trying to be as respectful as possible, when it comes time for me to get out of the car one of the cops says "you look like you wanna fight" I'm completely taken aback.
I get out and then he gets up in my face and says "take a swing" I was so confused all I could let out was a "what?", he says it again and again, "take a swing". I just start looking around wondering what the hell is going on then I finally said something I maybe shouldn't have "you don't wanna do this".
I'm looking at him straight in the eye saying those words and then he starts talking about being in Iraq and trying to make himself seem more tough. This goes on until he tells me to put my hands on the hood, they search the car, find nothing, then the one cop gives me the dirtiest look in the world and then they leave.
that was so weird.
Me and my friends were leaving a bar and we were waiting in the car for the driver(he had to go get something), as we're waiting the cops pull up beside us and tell start telling us to get out of the car one by one.(they said there was a fight near by or something).
My friends just exchanged a few words with the police and that was it, now I'm the only black guy in the car, I was just sitting there silently listening to their orders and trying to be as respectful as possible, when it comes time for me to get out of the car one of the cops says "you look like you wanna fight" I'm completely taken aback.
I get out and then he gets up in my face and says "take a swing" I was so confused all I could let out was a "what?", he says it again and again, "take a swing". I just start looking around wondering what the hell is going on then I finally said something I maybe shouldn't have "you don't wanna do this".
I'm looking at him straight in the eye saying those words and then he starts talking about being in Iraq and trying to make himself seem more tough. This goes on until he tells me to put my hands on the hood, they search the car, find nothing, then the one cop gives me the dirtiest look in the world and then they leave.
that was so weird.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Thanks, this is very useful.
The_Joker1721
Member
Yes. Especially being a minority walking through a mostly white neighborhood I didn't notice that a receipt fell out of my pocket when I grabbed my headphones. I heard a cop yell "FREEZE" From across the street at me.
I thought for sure I was gonna get shot or something. I got the whole "hands in the air don't move treatment" cause my hand was in my pocket (I was grabbing my iPod before he yelled freeze) They thought I dropped some drugs on the floor or some other thing. All you can say in a situation like that is shit like "yes sir" "no sir" didn't look like good cops either. Being really aggressive and loud.
But then again I was having a conversation with a cop at a smoothie shop about marky mark and the funky bunch. There are a lot more good cops than there are bad ones but the bad ones are the ones that get the most focus.
We're not talking about trusting a stranger who knocks on your door and who comes back later to take your stuff or some spam emailers, we're talking about a cop who depending how his wife hasn't been putting out, or gee whiz you look like that black kid his daughter is fucking on the side, or maybe he's just a DICK. So it's the upstanding Officer Bob against the kid who mouthed off. So you get arrested for resisting. There goes that life. Or worse, the guy can kill you to death.
Is that going to happen? Really? Nope, probably not. Probably not.
Grinchy
Banned
Nope, if you interact with a cop you have a 90% chance of dying.
There are some really bad Police forces though. Millions of people live in their jurisdictions often too.
Hence the sterotype. I've had mostly neutral to good experiences with every cop I've dealt with outside of the SPD (Seattle). I've had nothing bad terrible experiences with the SPD. Systematic problems that have been well documented too, so I'm not alone. And I have no criminal conviction record, and I'm generally very respectful if I do fuck up (like speed for instance.) But it's not just cops being dicks to me or people I know. I also know of outright corrupt things; knew a group of clubber girls who got police escorts home every weekend. Totally wasted too.. cops doing this on duty, often leaving the city to get them all the way home. Security guards have told me many stories of cops not caring about and encouraging them to illegally beat the shit out of people who act up at clubs.. that sort of thing.
Crazy_Sunshine
Banned
If I was the main focus of an investigation I am going to ask that question. If they answer yes, at that point I won't answer any questions until a lawyer is present. They say no, walk away. If I'm not being charged and they are fishing for something why should I make it easier for them.
Still doesn't change what I said. Never said it doesn't happen, only that is doesn't happen nearly as much as people seem to believe. I can easily go by arrest/jail statistics and damn the context to say black people are downing society.
I never go off of statistics without context and anecdotal evidence to perceive how things are.
As I said, that above statement is legit to ask, but one should be mindful of how they ask it and the scenario they find themselves in. Don't need to trust anybody, just be mindful that words display emotion really easily. One should not let them get to them nor be as ass in beginning or end.
Cheerfully withdrawn then Alex..
I was posting to you immediately after posting to another person with the attitude that its just simply brown gaf bitching about *a literal view that* every single cop in the usa, and not just the bad ones, yet again. You are so right, about experience. But people have a mission to downplay experience in these, unfortunate, threads. I had my angry fingers on.
Ahem..
To me, the "so a bunch of made up stuff" translates to.. Angelus is clearly lying about the unfortunate encounters that minorities have had with police officers in the USA. My personal experience with "sees random object in car." is the story of a man who was shot when he pulled out his wallet to show his ID. The police miss took it for a gun, as the trope goes. But to this person, its just "made up stuff."
So again, you are completely right about experience. And it doesn't even stop or start with being brown. But of a certain class that the police view lesser, or that they can conduct illegal activities against. I know a bunch of white guys that get harassed because police consider them white trash. Its not just a problem of the browns, but its a problem that is best measured by the browns. But theres a "brown" of all societies.
Shamrock7r
Member
Meh, I retract my post because it won't solve anything, but there are generalizations going on here and cartoonishly embellishing embellishing it to the majority of situations doesn't help in my opinion.
Laieon
Member
I don't fear them at all. There's significantly more good cops then bad. As long as you're respectful (which you should be to just about anyone anyway), you'll be fine.
Shamrock7r
Member
You interpreted wrong. Read above.
They're not all like this. The bad ones give the good ones a bad reputation so many people don't trust any cops at all. But being antagonizing is going to ratchet up the tension of the encounter and many here are saying that's a foolish thing to do.
Goro Majima
Kitty Genovese Member
:jnc
Did he just say "....uh, never mind" and got back in his patrol car and drove off?
Maybe I'm just lucky (or because I'm a middle class white person), but I've only had cops be either friendly or just robotic with me so I've never felt the need to be confrontational with one. Never heard one curse before either, they're usually, at worst, patronizingly polite.
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