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[sorakirosaki]

Especially since Lucas played a lot better than Ness...

i kinda like how both played they were clones but the different properties to their moves made them feel different enough for me would miss either of them

 

[ffdgh]

One of ProJared's videos from the show floor shows some new deets for Sonic. His Aerial Spin Dash moves in a weird fucking trajectory around the 2:13 point, doesn't look like it's going to be as viable for recovery as it used to be. It's fast though. Also Sonic has a new rather fast Down Smash reminiscent of Fox's split kick.

Figured I'd post since not a lot of people have been playing as Sonic.

A split kick? Sonic is a space animal confirmed. Kidding aside, i'll take it over his old one.

 

[k_Reign]

i kinda like how both played they were clones but the different properties to their moves made them feel different enough for me would miss either of them

I dunno, they played differently enough that I wouldn't say they were clones. The specials were mostly the same though, yeah...

 

[Revven]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

 

[GAMERG0D]

This game plays nowhere near Brawl. You guys have got to play this game if you can.

 

[Kurtofan]

The most recent one lists those six as the only "participating characters". This could mean that these are all of the non-secret newcomers, or all of the remaining newcomers. I think expecting more on top of them is setting yourself up for disappointment.

Secret characters, also there's still probably a direct before September.

 

[sorakirosaki]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

can you pm the link? im curious to what he thinks

edit: thanks revven

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

It's worth noting Gematsu never mentioned Rosalina...although it's possible he may have somehow confused her with Peach or something?

I wonder if it's possible he saw Marth or Ike and mistakenly though it was Chrom?

 

[Regiruler]

I just realized my faulty A button on my 3DS is going to completely and utterly screw me over.

Circle Pad Pro support PLEASE for the additional buttons

 

[ffdgh]

It's worth noting Gematsu never mentioned Rosalina...although it's possible he may have somehow confused her with Peach or something?

I wonder if it's possible he saw Marth or Ike and mistakenly though it was Chrom?

Even with the blue hair, it should be somewhat easy to see they're different people...i think.

 

[Ryce]

PK Freeze will be available as a customization for Ness' neutral B, and it'll be possible to change his PK Thunder to Lucas' version. The inevitability hurts.

 

[Spinluck]

I saw the game in person today, and I am sure that it is 1080p which is impressive.

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

Can you PM it to me? Would love to read it.

PK Freeze will be available as a customization for Ness' neutral B, and it'll be possible to change his PK Thunder to Lucas' version. The inevitability hurts.

Only way Lucas comes back is with a new moveset. I'd like another Earthbound rep to take his place though.

 

[Axass]

It's not hard to find guys, it's literally a Nintendo enthusiast. Literally.

 

[Revven]

I'm going to quote some parts of the article because again, it's impressions and stuff -- both a mix of good and bad in no particular order

Aerials are really, really laggy when landing on the ground—slower than non-L-canceled Melee aerials by far. This is most noticeable with moves like Marth’s forward air (which has been nerfed heavily since previous iterations) and Pikachu’s neutral air. Because of this high cooldown, jump-in aerial approaches are hardly viable with any character, which massively hurts the game’s capacity for offensive gameplay. Air dodging into the ground also comes with serious end frames. A traditional strategy is to jump in with a low-lag aerial, spaced and timed well to avoid punishment in the event that the opponent blocks, and then to follow up on block or hit with another quick/safe move that links well after the initial move.

This is now significantly less effective because many aerials performed close to the ground will render characters stuck in cooldown for too long, making them punishable for trying to attack. The easy fix I propose is to heavily reduce landing lag on aerial A moves across the board for all characters. This will allow for exciting, aggressive gameplay and open the door to creative combos and block strings that are impossible in the game’s current engine. Casual and competitive players alike will enjoy this change, because it allows their characters to move more quickly and freely. The air dodge should also see a decent landing lag reduction, though not quite to the levels of its Brawl incarnation.

THERE ARE COMBOS. Many moves easily link into each other. For example, Fox can do dash attack into up tilt at low to mid percents with almost no problem. Low percent hitstun seems to be similar to Brawl, where you can string most moves so long as they keep your opponent close enough to you. Toward the higher percents, moves gain a flashier knockback animation and what seems like disproportionally additional hitstun. For moves that don’t send you too far away to follow up, this seems to be a cue to combo into a finisher.

My first match with Link, I hit Fox with a down air at the top of Battlefield around 80%. While I normally thought this would have killed him, it actually popped him up a moderate distance in a lot of hitstun that looked possible to follow up from (I wasn’t expecting that to happen so I didn’t react in time to test it for myself). Other moves seem to have this effect as well.

There is new technology already being discovered with the certain possibility of more. A player named Fiction discovered that you can do tilt moves (and possibly more) out of the pivot animation, allowing you to run past or away from someone, turn around, then attack back in their direction. This may also serve as this game’s version of a dash cancel into attacks.

The initial dashing window is really short—even shorter than in Brawl. As a result, dashdancing is borderline impossible. I basically hurt my wrist trying to dashdance consisently in place with Marth because you have to flick the stick back and forth so quickly to do it, and this is coming from someone who routinely utilizes dashdancing even in Brawl. By moderately improving the window in which you can pivot, which is a very subtle and non-intrusive change, a bunch of possibilities could open for players. You can fake approaches and retreats, diversify tech-chase followups, throw off your opponent’s timing when reacting to your movement, and more with this simple option! Any sort of functions that allow players to cancel or have more options out of dash would be deeply appreciated by the competitive community—especially since jumping approaches are now very weak.

The part about aerials being really laggy on the ground is awful to hear. -_-

WHY MAKE THEM MORE LAGGY WHEN YOU LAND THAN EVEN IN BRAWL? I don't get it.

 

[NotLiquid]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

Looked the article up, really good and balanced viewpoint of it all. No kneejerk reactions either, just careful as possible analysis.

I hope Sakurai and co. reduce the landing lag. It seems to be the most commonly agreed on issue right now.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

A player named Fiction discovered that you can do tilt moves (and possibly more) out of the pivot animation, allowing you to run past or away from someone, turn around, then attack back in their direction. This may also serve as this game’s version of a dash cancel into attacks.

Hmm, is this our Fiction here?

 

[Next]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

I'd also like a pm

 

[Beats]

I remember someone posting a link to someone saying that the people at the booths were taking feedback and writing it down? Does anyone have the link to that or know if it's true?

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

Nice impressions from that article.

 

[Caladrius]

Newcomers

As disappointed as I am that Waluigi isn't in, Ray Mark III hasn't a chance in hell and Ridley probably isn't in either, I'm ultimately satisfied with the newcomers. I feel like they did a good job choosing a distinctive batch of characters.

 

[TWILT]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

Yeah, read it myself. Some promising stuff. Really hope they change the supposedly really laggy aerials though...

 

[Revven]

I'd also like a pm

PM sent

Can you PM it to me? Would love to read it.

PM sent

Biggest gripe from me really is the news about tons of landing lag on aerials. That's literally the main way you approach in competitive Smash since... the FIRST game! I don't get whyyyyyyyyyy, please change ittttttt.

 

[PK Gaming]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

Can you pm me the link?

 

[ALM5252]

I played the demo at Best Buy, and I'm disappointed in no traditional blue Mario from past games. I really hope this bubblegum / Wario blue colour didn't replace it.

 

[sorakirosaki]

PM sent



PM sent

Biggest gripe from me really is the news about tons of landing lag on aerials. That's literally the main way you approach in competitive Smash since... the FIRST game! I don't get whyyyyyyyyyy, please change ittttttt.

im hoping they change it too

 

[Resolution]

I got the chance to play at Nintendo world new york earlier. Game felt and looked similar to brawl just faster. I played Zero Suit Samus and she is really fun. It was funny to hear people already complaining about samus being too op and how she is getting nerfed from the nintendo rep just because "she won the tournament yesterday". I did have to explain that it was a really dumb excuses especially when it was ran with so many random factors to make those judgments.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I'm going to quote some parts of the article because again, it's impressions and stuff -- both a mix of good and bad in no particular order


The part about aerials being really laggy on the ground is awful to hear. -_-

WHY MAKE THEM MORE LAGGY WHEN YOU LAND THAN EVEN IN BRAWL? I don't get it.

Basically, Smash 4 is more on defensive game than offensive game? from the impressions i have seen for last two days.

 

[Berordn]

As disappointed as I am that Waluigi isn't in, Ray Mark III hasn't a chance in hell and Ridley probably isn't in either, I'm ultimately satisfied with the newcomers. I feel like they did a good job choosing a distinctive batch of characters.

I've got some gripes about Palutena fitting into way too similar a mold as Rosalina and Zelda and also her attacks mainly just being Pit's abilities, but it's pretty minor since she at least looks fun to play.

 

[RustedPieces]

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

I like your style, thank ye.

 

[ErrorMacro]

I'm going to quote some parts of the article because again, it's impressions and stuff -- both a mix of good and bad in no particular order









The part about aerials being really laggy on the ground is awful to hear. -_-

WHY MAKE THEM MORE LAGGY WHEN YOU LAND THAN EVEN IN BRAWL? I don't get it.

Nice analysis! Very technical and neutral. It's a shame about the landing lag though, Let's hope it gets fixed by launch or at least patched later through fan feedback. Any more interesting points, Revven ?

 

[Caladrius]

I've got some gripes about Palutena fitting into way too similar a mold as Rosalina and Zelda and also her attacks mainly just being Pit's abilities, but it's pretty minor since she at least looks fun to play.

I blame Nintendo's fixation on royalty.

It's not as bad since Rosalina, Zelda and Palutena are ultimately wildly differing takes on the same basic archetype, though I can definitely see where you're coming from.

We need more boxer-type characters.

Spoiler

There is no ulterior motive for this.

 

[Revven]

Basically, Smash 4 is more on defensive game than offensive game? from the impressions i have seen for last two days.

Pretty much, if they don't change anything about what players have said (aerials with huge amounts of landing lag, unable to dashdance at all, still powerful shield game) then it's still going to be defensive oriented and awful for both players and spectators alike.

 

[Mik317]

Pretty much, if they don't change anything about what players have said (aerials with huge amounts of landing lag, unable to dashdance at all, still powerful shield game) then it's still going to be defensive oriented and awful for both players and spectators alike.

Wasn't that boring at the invitational.

Defensive battles can be hype too.

 

[Berordn]

We need more boxer-type characters.

Spoiler

There is no ulterior motive for this.

 

[SliceSabre]

Pretty much, if they don't change anything about what players have said (aerials with huge amounts of landing lag, unable to dashdance at all, still powerful shield game) then it's still going to be defensive oriented and awful for both players and spectators alike.

Brawl wasn't an awful game if you listen to anyone not in the competitive scene.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Pretty much, if they don't change anything about what players have said (aerials with huge amounts of landing lag, unable to dashdance at all, still powerful shield game) then it's still going to be defensive oriented and awful for both players and spectators alike.

my hopes for this game is they find a nice balance between offensive and defensive games since im a sucker for rush down based tactics

 

[Daouzin]

And those people can be stuck 20 something years in the past when the next Smash games comes out proclaiming Melee's perfection and claiming Melee is bringing more fans to the Smash community(It won't be).

And I will look upon those people as broken old men who cannot progress not masters of their craft like they want others to believe.

Eh, I think PM has proven that a game can have depth and still be really fun for casuals. I think people think the competitive rule set makes them bad, but they would be bad regardless of the rule set. Let's just have a game that's fun to master.

There's a decent article on a certain nintendo enthusiast (literally) site that comes from a competitive player about what he thinks of the game (I would post the link but it's a banned site apparently...)

Says some interesting good things about the game.

PM me the link please.

 

[icy_eagle]

Smashboards? more like Strawmanboards. I just might go insane at this rate.

 

[PadWarrior]

just got back

WHAT A PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT IT'S BRAWL 2.0 BUT WORSE I DON'T EVEN WANT THE GAME ANYMORE PRE ORDER CANCELLED UGH I'LL BE PLAYING MELEE

Spoiler

just kidding! detailed impressions soon!

I knew i liked you for a reason lol

 

[Berordn]

Smashboards? more like Strawmanboards. I just might go insane.

I kind of want a Super Strawman Brothers game now.

It's a game about losing debates by being the better strawman.

 

[SliceSabre]

Eh, I think PM has proven that a game can have depth and still be really fun for casuals. I think people think the competitive rule set makes them bad, but they would be bad regardless of the rule set. Let's just have a game that's fun to master.

Because casuals will be playing Project M when Smash 4 comes out and Project M when Smash 5 comes out?

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

This game plays nowhere near Brawl. You guys have got to play this game if you can.

No where near Brawl? I just played on the Wii U and 3DS and they both feel closer to Brawl than anything else. Reserving judgment till I get to play more, but still too floaty and way too much landing lag unnecessarily hurting the flow.

 

[Ryce]

I've got some gripes about Palutena fitting into way too similar a mold as Rosalina and Zelda and also her attacks mainly just being Pit's abilities, but it's pretty minor since she at least looks fun to play.

It makes sense when you consider that Palutena was the one who granted Pit those abilities. Rosalina's in the same boat -- Mario uses Star Bits, Launch Stars, and the Star Cursor in Galaxy, but Rosalina and a Luma gave him those powers.

 

[PadWarrior]

Can I get a pm to that link?

 

[Berordn]

It makes sense when you consider that Palutena was the one who granted Pit those abilities. Rosalina's in the same boat -- Mario uses Star Bits, Launch Stars, and the Star Cursor in Galaxy, but Rosalina and a Luma gave him those powers.

I've got no real issue in regards to Rosalina since Mario wasn't being updated to represent Galaxy, but Pit's got a ton of additions from Uprising in his moveset now.

But like I said, it's a nonissue since she seems to be representing KI:U's crazy in-depth customization with her moveset instead of just elements of the game.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Eh, I think PM has proven that a game can have depth and still be really fun for casuals.

I don't really like PM and I think I count as casual (even though I play Smash a goddamn lot). I prefer to play Brawl (or Melee once in a while).

Brawl wasn't an awful game if you listen to anyone not in the competitive scene.

It is a great game. The only people who keep trashing it is the competitive crowd.

 

[Revven]

Wasn't that boring at the invitational.

Defensive battles can be hype too.

Items were on and it was FFA for 90% of the sets and your interest in it was kept because it's a new game we've barely seen anything of. I wasn't as pumped about it compared to watching a 1v1 in Melee -- it was only enjoyable because it was new. The 1v1 matches that were there were OK but absolutely not what I'd want to see a year from now when the game has been in the player's hands for longer.

Defensive matches can be exciting but only when it's not every match and that's what was wrong with Brawl: every match was defensive based. There was never any offense, going in with aggression got you punished. And that's what competitive players want fixed. They want to be rewarded for offense, not punished, and that's what Brawl did and looks like Smash 4 might carry over. That's why there's so many people up in arms about it. They (or we) want to be rewarded for aggression.

Brawl wasn't an awful game if you listen to anyone not in the competitive scene.

I never once said Brawl was an awful game overall. Stop misreading me and trying to instigate something. You can enjoy it with your items, I don't hate you for playing it and enjoying it. And you can enjoy Smash 4, too, it looks like a good game in general. But for competitive play, I am concerned. Am I allowed to be concerned? Does everything need to be positive in this thread? I wasn't aware negative opinions were banned in Smash 4 threads.

 

[JoeInky]

I don't really like PM and I think I count as casual (even though I play Smash a goddamn lot). I prefer to play Brawl (or Melee once in a while).

It is a great game. The only people who keep trashing it is the competitive crowd.

Before I even got into the competitive scene I considered brawl to be a shit game compared to melee in terms of mechanics.

 

[Next]

I never once said Brawl was an awful game overall. Stop misreading me and trying to instigate something. You can enjoy it with your items, I don't hate you for playing it and enjoying it. And you can enjoy Smash 4, too, it looks like a good game in general. But for competitive play, I am concerned. Am I allowed to be concerned? Does everything need to be positive in this thread? I wasn't aware negative opinions were banned in Smash 4 threads.

There's plenty of people who've enjoyed playing brawl in competition too.

 

[Revven]

There's plenty of people who've enjoyed playing brawl in competition too.

There are, yes. Sorry, I was sort of spouting my own opinion on it there.

 

[Azure J]

Please send a PM my way too. I sincerely hope that these people commenting on the current build are all filing their impressions and suggestions with the reps that are there at the Nintendo station.