Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

Jintor said:
max what does benny think of smash 3ds
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He wants Gamecube controller adapter to work on 3DS as well. Smart dog.

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Choppasmith said:
You guys are nuts and freaking out over nothing. It's her. I noticed for most of the trailer she sounded a touch lighter and tad more "cutesy" much like she did in the Revolting Dinner short (animated by Shaft as well funny enough). Her line at the end of the trailer regarding strong foes sounds a lot more in line with how she sounds in the game.
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GiantBreadbug said:
I hope you're right. She just sounded... off. But I do remember her last line sounding much more like normal.

And maybe it was just cause all he said was "uh-huh," but Pittoo sounded odd. Which is weird cause why would you hire a whole other voice actor. But I'm sure that was my ears playing tricks on me.
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Moonlight said:
I think Antony Del Rio already confirmed that he was voicing Pit in Smash 4. I wouldn't stress much about it in any case. The voice performances are so integral to the soul of Kid Icarus that I doubt they'd try finding different VAs unless they absolutely had to.
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A quick check of IMDB seems to indicate it's still the same voice actor :3

With all the custom moves, assist trophies, customisation items and stuff I'm starting to think we won't have unlockable characters but instead we'll get all these doo-hickeys to earn instead.

Edit: Ok, on further reading I guess IMDB can't be trusted. It has Danica Patrick voicing herself on the list and Hideo Kojima voicing God ¬.¬
 
Oh, I asked this earlier in the thread but you seem like you'd be in a good position to answer, Max - are there a lot of fighting games where pre-release stuff has come out and the community has begun engaging in detailed, vocal feedback and videos and stuff where it seems like the devs (or at least people repping the devs - I don't know if Sakurai is really paying too much attention) are actually listening? Further, if there have been, have there actually been any that resulted in meaningful change?
 
Jintor said:
Oh, I asked this earlier in the thread but you seem like you'd be in a good position to answer, Max - are there a lot of fighting games where pre-release stuff has come out and the community has begun engaging in detailed, vocal feedback and videos and stuff where it seems like the devs (or at least people repping the devs - I don't know if Sakurai is really paying too much attention) are actually listening? Further, if there have been, have there actually been any that resulted in meaningful change?
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street fighter? is the only one that crosses my mind but i guess your talking prerelease so maybe ki season 2?

Oblivion said:
Heh, much appreciated.

My body's been sore all day for whatever reason so I'm sure that hasn't helped me be as coherent and eloquent as I wanted to be. Best hit the hay for now.
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its cool dood
 
sorakirosaki said:
ehh i think your assessment while i dont agree is still fair so i cant hate :) but to me while yeah he does use the brawl assets i think the stuff he added useless to some fun for others is enough for me to give the visuals mechanics a breath of fresh air :P[
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Heh, much appreciated.

My body's been sore all day for whatever reason so I'm sure that hasn't helped me be as coherent and eloquent as I wanted to be. Best hit the hay for now.
 
Jintor said:
Oh, I asked this earlier in the thread but you seem like you'd be in a good position to answer, Max - are there a lot of fighting games where pre-release stuff has come out and the community has begun engaging in detailed, vocal feedback and videos and stuff where it seems like the devs (or at least people repping the devs - I don't know if Sakurai is really paying too much attention) are actually listening? Further, if there have been, have there actually been any that resulted in meaningful change?
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MVC3 is a huge example of this. The first time I played the game, it was TVC. Feedback turned the game back into MVC2 standard by feel.

However, Sakurai's one of the most respected people in the industry in Japan.

The Nintendo Treehouse devs were absolutely curious with what I had to say and were taking notes, but knowing the mentality of most JP developers, I -highly- doubt anything is going to change this far into development.

Don't get me wrong, Smash 4 isn't a bad game. It just doesn't feel quite as fun as some previous titles.
 
LeMaximilian said:
MVC3 is a huge example of this. The first time I played the game, it was TVC. Feedback turned the game back into MVC2 standard by feel.

However, Sakurai's one of the most respected people in the industry in Japan.

The Nintendo Treehouse devs were absolutely curious with what I had to say and were taking notes, but knowing the mentality of most JP developers, I -highly- doubt anything is going to change this far into development.

But don't get me wrong, Smash 4 isn't a bad game. It just doesn't feel quite as fun as some previous titles.
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actually i always felt mvc3 to feel more like tvc when i played when it released but maybe im just not familiar to the mvc2 mechanics

ya never know though he did state himself this was still a working title so things could change things might not.

but yeah after all this back and forth im just gonna make my own impressions and just go with that seems less confusing :P
 
foxuzamaki said:
I believe it was
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Oh, well, in that case, yes, I'm serious. Smash ain't no joke!
I actually cut a lot out. I was going to have this whole section making comparisons to Splatoon, saying that despite the Wii U audience, cartoony style etc. they still actually tried to make a deep and balanced competitive game, but Sakurai just refuses to.

But I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. Sakurai makes certain promises like how the speed is going to be between Melee and Brawl or how he's paying extra attention to the balance, and people get hyped. New evidence emerges that suggest those things may not actually be the case, and people are disappointed. Seems pretty simple to me.

Like I said, Melee is one of my favourite games of all time. All I want is a true successor that manages to capture the essence of what I loved about Melee, in a fresh new game. Is there anything wrong with that? Another of my favourite games of all time is Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, and it's the same deal there. Still waiting for a legit Paper Mario 3.
 
Jintor said:
Are your issues with the game baked-into the design or the kind of thing that could be fixed with numbers tweaking?
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Yea, there's a big issue with the game and it has a few was to describe it. Lag, recovery, delay, etc. Most attacks are very unsafe, making the overall feel very defensive. You wait for someone to screw up, instead of being proactive and offensive.

I believe this to be attached to a specific design issue with Smash 4, and it's that animations are taking priority over fun. Most have these very elaborate pre and post animations to their attacks, and sometimes they just take too damn long. As a result, the player has to be overly cautious about what they press and when they press it, moreso than ever before in a Smash game.

On a technical level, returning to neutral takes too much time for way to many characters. At the moment, there's a couple that don't seem to have this issue, IE Zero Suit Samus.
 
LeMaximilian said:
A lot of folks have issues seeing a range of framerates, and I'm not saying you have to trust me either.

It's something that I find very important for fighting games, and really felt the need to get it off my chest as it's been bugging me ever since the show. You can take or leave my impressions, but I did play nearly 20 or so matches on the 3DS XL version, and I was constantly questioning the framerate.

I've also got a general rule of thumb when trying to decipher if a game is actually running at 60. Usually if something is, there's no question, 'that's obviously 60 fps'. But if you see something running and start questioning the framerate, attempting to decipher what it's actually running at...there's a good chance it's between 40-50 fps.
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just asking,but did you take into account the fact that assist trophies and probably many other parts of the scenarios are running at 30fps and only the fighters are running at 60 fps?
that may explain why the frame rate wasn't convincing?
 
LeMaximilian said:
Yea, there's a big issue with the game and it has a few was to describe it. Lag, recovery, delay, etc. Most attacks are very unsafe, making the overall feel very defensive. You wait for someone to screw up, instead of being proactive and offensive.

I believe this to be attached to a specific design issue with Smash 4, and it's that animations are taking priority over fun. Most have these very elaborate pre and post animations to their attacks, and sometimes they just take too damn long. As a result, the player has to be overly cautious about what they press and when they press it, moreso than ever before in a Smash game.

On a technical level, returning to neutral takes too much time for way to many characters. At the moment, there's a couple that don't seem to have this issue, IE Zero Suit Samus.
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So it's animation priority that's the major problem making Smash 4 more defensive than melee (though presumably not as defensive as brawl)?
 
I'm not too worried about the reused voice clips in the Smash demo. Nearly every character had recycled lines - even Sonic had lines directly ripped from Sonic Generations. I doubt that, after having new lines for both Melee and Brawl, they would suddenly stop doing so,

Although, even if they do - the assertion that Sakurai did so on purpose to spite those who disliked Brawl is ridiculous.
 
Majukun said:
just asking,but did you take into account the fact that assist trophies and probably many other parts of the scenarios are running at 30fps and only the fighters are running at 60 fps?
that may explain why the frame rate wasn't convincing?
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Yea, I did know about this going in, also checked several times to be sure the 3D slider was completely off. It's definitely in the player to player combat.

I took 60 fps 720p footage from my DLSR of the game screen, showing it to a friend who's a huge Smash fiend and he replied, 'That's not 60 fps'.
 
Majukun said:
just asking,but did you take into account the fact that assist trophies and probably many other parts of the scenarios are running at 30fps and only the fighters are running at 60 fps?
that may explain why the frame rate wasn't convincing?
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Items, stages and fighters are all 60fps.

Pokemon and AT's are not.
 
I find it really weird LeMaximillian had issues with the 3DS version. If anything it was more complete, stable, and ran smoother than the Wii U version. I'm no framerate expert or anything but a drop to 45 fps would've definitely been noticeable and I didn't experience that at all. Then again I only played one match, but it was flawless for me so idk. Maybe there was interference and input lag since it was playing through 3DS' wireless feature.

LeMaximilian said:
MVC3 is a huge example of this. The first time I played the game, it was TVC. Feedback turned the game back into MVC2 standard by feel.

However, Sakurai's one of the most respected people in the industry in Japan.

The Nintendo Treehouse devs were absolutely curious with what I had to say and were taking notes, but knowing the mentality of most JP developers, I -highly- doubt anything is going to change this far into development.

Don't get me wrong, Smash 4 isn't a bad game. It just doesn't feel quite as fun as some previous titles.
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Are you talking about the 3DS version when you say Nintendo Treehouse were taking note of the framrate drop?

Edit: I do agree with it being much more defensive than melee. You get rewarded for defensive play a lot more. That was clear in both the 3DS and Wii U versions.
 
FZZpure said:
I find it really weird LeMaximillian had issues with the 3DS version. If anything it was more complete, stable, and ran smoother than the Wii U version. I'm no framerate expert or anything but a drop to 45 fps would've definitely been noticeable and I didn't experience that at all. Then again I only played one match, but it was flawless for me so idk. Maybe there was interference and input lag since it was playing through 3DS' wireless feature.



Are you talking about the 3DS version when you say Nintendo Treehouse were taking note of the framrate drop?
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Yea, they took notes on framerate stuff and slow recovering moves making the game feel sluggish especially.
 
LeMaximilian said:
Yea, they took notes on framerate stuff and slow recovering moves making the game feel sluggish especially.
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That's pretty cool then. When I played it was literally headphones on, finish the match and then the next people in line went up. All the Treehouse people were at Wii U kiosks when I was playing.
 
MasterBalls said:
Won't let my hype be deflated by a single set of impressions, otherwise I would have loathed Brawl.
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It isn't a single set of impressions though, lots of people are talking about how the game feels sluggish due to all the landing lag from aerials.

I don't get why people seem so eager to sweep all these criticisms under the rug when it's literally just a few tweaks that could make the game brilliant.

And it's not as if the changes make the game less accessible or affect the casual player who's only bothered about seeing the characters and stages in any way at all.
 
SuperSah said:
Hey! You finally got a GAF account! Welcome! :D
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Heya Sah. I finally got in just last week: All in time for E3! :3

sorakirosaki said:
way more clever then me rofl
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Thankies! :D
I'm sure with a bit of time you could come up with some good stuff :3

JoeInky said:
It isn't a single set of impressions though, lots of people are talking about how the game feels sluggish due to all the landing lag from aerials.

I don't get why people seem so eager to sweep all these criticisms under the rug when it's literally just a few tweaks that could make the game brilliant.

And it's not as if the changes make the game less accessible or affect the casual player who's only bothered about seeing the characters and stages in any way at all.
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I see no issue with the small list that Revven suggested, personally.
That said, like many I guess I just like to get my hands on something to get a feel for it myself and put everything in perspective before I can really related to the feedback other people are giving :3

I guess it's also worth mentioning that it's funny what players will overlook on their first impressions due to whatever mindset they go in with: In one of the earlier versions of a combat system for a board game I'm dabbling with one of the playtesters (a very experienced professional board game designer) was honestly baffled why I'd included one of the moves in the game, as it basically required both you and your opponent to not move for a turn to connect. I pointed out it's theoretical usage (which is more than you'll get from Sakurai admittedly :P ) inspired by tactics I'd noticed in actual high-level matches of Soul Calibur, but the tester seemed unconvinced and claimed he could never see a situation coming up where he'd use it...
Two turns later he won the entire fight decisively by using the move in question, much to the amusement of all present XD

Moral of the story here is... there might be tactics we're not seeing yet just because we don't have the right line of thinking to spot them. All the same, however, I see no issue with people giving constructive feedback anyway and if they're not enjoying it then it's the task of a good designer to work out why and see if it can be/needs fixed :3
 
OT9: No Items, Zero Suit Samus Only, Final Destination
OT9: Mario and the Island of Misfit Mascots
OT9: SUPER FIGHTING ROBOT

We need to discuss the most important issue: which characters are going to have cool Amiibo poses? They are directly based on their Smash render, so we can imagine how they will look in toy form.

AWESOME:
main.png

main.png


NOT AWESOME:
main.png


Hard to believe we will be able to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a Game and Watch or Shulk figurine.
 
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