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[Berordn]

I've got two dilemmas with Smash Bros 4.

1) Do I really need both versions? (I really want that answer to be yes, believe me).

2) If I only got one version, which to get? Wii U will look amazing and more traditional and comfortable to play. 3DS is portable and something of a novelty, with exclusive modes.

Hopefully Nintendo run a promotion for ordering both, which will ensure I get each.

1. No, but there's likely enough unique content in each to justify getting both.
2. Depends on what you want most out of it. Wii U will probably be the definitive version for multiplayer (if only because of community preference), but the 3DS seems to have a wealth of modes suited for solo play. Smash Run seems to be their biggest push perhaps because it's impossible to make that work on console and still have 4 player MP.

 

[JoeInky]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I'm actually a little disappointed in the music to be honest. 3DS is capable of some really great audio, but the only song I really liked was the Spirit Tracks one. Gerudo Valley was okay (probably more relaxed because its Smash Run) and the Island song was okay too. I didn't really like the rest, especially rainbow road.

 

[Tookay]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

I don't think so. I feel like this is a really unfair generalization.

 

[Babymario26]

Just got back from playing SSB4, i used mario he's not bad... seemed a little bit lighter to me. My brother beat us though... cause of the super sonic sweep.

 

[Toxi]

Wii U music is quiet as hell. I like the Dr. Wiley theme, but I can't even notice anything else.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Just got back from playing SSB4, i used mario he's not bad... seemed a little bit lighter to me. My brother beat us though... cause of the super sonic sweep.

Did you bother using FLUDD by any chance? How is the normal version?

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

VAINLY ATTEMPTING TO MOVE DISCUSSION TO BRIGHTER AREAS

So, how do you think they'll handle special move customization for some characters, i.e. Megaman and Samus? They both have different weapon types, so I'd imagine the "variations" Sakurai mentioned could take the form of different weapons subbing in for Megaman (i.e. maybe Screw Crusher or another multi-directional weapon subbing in for Metal Blade, or another shield-type power subbing in for Leaf-Shield) and different Beam Types and Missiles and Bombs subbing in for Samus (i.e. maybe a Power Bomb with a bigger radius and knockback than the regular type, but it takes longer to go off and longer to lay another one, and slower but more powerful Ice Missiles subbing for regular and Super Missiles, maybe something similar to Diffusion Missiles from Metroid Fusion).

Speaking of Samus, actually, I did think up a character idea a while back, drawing off of Samus' portrayal in Project M with her ability to switch between the Power Beam moveset and an Ice Beam moveset.

If you've played Metroid Prime, you might recall that there were color-coded Space Pirates in the late-game that appeared to utilize the various beam weapons you gathered throughout the game. Scanning them would reveal that they were using reverse-engineered versions of your beam technology, but a flaw in their design meant that they could be killed using the exact beam type they were using.

I think a neat idea would be to have a Space Pirate character who expanded on the idea of experimental beam usage. Maybe have a B move that allows them to switch between, say, a neutral Power Beam moveset, a slower but more powerful Ice Beam moveset, and a quicker but weaker Plasma or Wave Beam moveset (it can be a tossup between those two honestly). It'd probably only affect some specials and maybe some Smash Attacks or aerials or tilts, much like Samus in Project M, and to illustrate the experimental and volatile nature of the Space Pirates' attempts at reverse-engineering, there could maybe be penalties for switching between beam types too rapidly (but not penalties for not switching at all, that pretty much ruined Pokemon Trainer).

 

[A Link to the Past]

Honestly, I'm not super hopeful that we'll get interesting moveset customization. I mean, it's a neat feature, but all I've seen has been variants of the root move - they didn't even have the Mario Tornado as Mario's Down + B!

 

[Beats]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

This isn't true at all. There are several individuals here that care about the competitive side and have voiced their concerns on the game in its current state and it's not just wanting "Melee 2.0". I wish you would stop generalizing that part of the community. : \

 

[MagiusNecros]

Honestly, I'm not super hopeful that we'll get interesting moveset customization. I mean, it's a neat feature, but all I've seen has been variants of the root move - they didn't even have the Mario Tornado as Mario's Down + B!

You'll take your FLUDD and like it.

 

[sorakirosaki]

Honestly, I'm not super hopeful that we'll get interesting moveset customization. I mean, it's a neat feature, but all I've seen has been variants of the root move - they didn't even have the Mario Tornado as Mario's Down + B!

i think so as well outside of palutena and miis, i think the character customization will add new animations and new properties but not change too much of the overall aesthetic

anyway this topic has been getting a bit heated so ill bow out and hopefully things will look a bit better later or just get worse regardless have a good day smashgaf

 

[Babymario26]

Did you bother using FLUDD by any chance? How is the normal version?

I used Mario, and no i was to busy trying to do a meteor effect, but i can tell i do not like to use the pro controller on there. (My brother was sonic)

 

[Miutsu]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

It has been stated several times that this is not the case, I'm pretty sure it WAS the case before Brawl's release (since Melee was the current Smash at the time) but people have long accepted that this won't be Melee 2.0 and that's not what they want this to be, they just want the game to be fun in a competitive setting and years of Smash (64, Melee, Brawl) has taught people what basic aspects of Smash makes for fun competition and what doesn't.

And no, I'm pretty sure almost no one (No one sane anyway) wants something that will damage the casual aspect of the game.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Having just finished playing, the only real problem with Smash 4 is Olimar's nerfed up smash. :|

 

[Cse]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

While it's undeniable that some people want Melee 2.0, most people who loved Melee just want more control options in Smash Bros 4.

- Reduced aerial landing lag
- Reduced lag after throwing opponent.

A simple reduction in the above two mechanics would be enjoyable for everyone playing the game. I don't think there is a single player, casual or hardcore, that wouldn't like to have more control over the movement of their character.

 

[Wreck-It Ralph]

Played the 3DS version today.

Villager is still a boss.

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

Honestly, I'm not super hopeful that we'll get interesting moveset customization. I mean, it's a neat feature, but all I've seen has been variants of the root move - they didn't even have the Mario Tornado as Mario's Down + B!

According to the How to Play website, they list Palutena and Mii Fighter as examples of characters who have unique custom moves, rather than variants of a base move. They might not be the only ones who share in that.

And thinking on it further, this moveset customization deal might serve to further distinguish "clone" characters. Like, say, Toon Link could have Ice Arrows and Fire Arrows as variants of his arrow move, and regular Link would have different variants like maybe slower Bomb Arrows or something.

 

[Beelzebufo]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

 

[StayDead]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

Isn't the problem with Brawl that there's no landing lag on arial dodges so it's unpunishable?

 

[Hylian7]

What exactly is going on here? People hate it already? It seemed great when I played it...

 

[GameGuru59]

Any game is viable for competition but a defensive game is not a good competitive game.

False. People watch soccer and baseball. Those games are weighted heavily toward defense- more heavily than Smash will ever be. Furthermore, the premise that Brawl=defensive therefore it is boring, is also wrong. Brawl isn't played competitively in a major way for the same reason Mario Kart isn't played competitively. It's unbalanced and introduces weighted random elements. Tripping in Brawl punishes players for being highly mobile on the ground- the less movement you do on the ground, the less likely you are to trip. Meta-Knight and Pit in Brawl are ludicrously over-mobile. The game's defensive nature has little to do with it.

Even if defensive play (I prefer to call it "strategic play") were a major problem, tourney rules can address that. Proponents of Brawl competition (yes they exist) have proposed going to 1 stock matches instead of the standard 3 stocks in Melee. Or you could keep three stocks and determine the winner by the number of stocks at the end of a timed match (if it were a tie, let the game enter sudden death). OR *gasp*, you could try turning on a limited selection of items (heresy, I know).

Smash Bros. is a much more dynamic game than the Melee worshipers make it out to be. Sakurai gives you a plethora of options to make the game competitive in lieu the physics glitches features you guys found in Melee. So long as your mind is open that is. If you want to play Melee, play Melee. But don't shit on a game that (1) isn't Melee, (2) isn't finished yet, and (3) is clearly fun to watch from the tournament we just had at E3. At least, I had fun watching it.

 

[Toxi]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

It might have been an attempt to nerf the air game after it dominated Brawl.

 

[Cse]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

This is what I'm interested in as well.

The movement speed in Smash 4 has increased. However, this is negated by the "sticky" landings players are experiencing after performing an aerial attack.

This is either something that simply exists in the current build, and will be ironed out and reduced in the retail version, or it's something that's already been addressed, and has been intentionally and consciously implemented into the game for whatever reason. I certainly hope it's the former.

 

[JoeInky]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

Making the game super defensive could be a by-product of balancing it around FFA with items instead of 1v1 seeing as there can be more sources of offense at any time.

 

[Golnei]

According to the How to Play website, they list Palutena and Mii Fighter as examples of characters who have unique custom moves, rather than variants of a base move. They might not be the only ones who share in that.

And thinking on it further, this moveset customization deal might serve to further distinguish "clone" characters. Like, say, Toon Link could have Ice Arrows and Fire Arrows as variants of his arrow move, and regular Link would have different variants like maybe slower Bomb Arrows or something.

Given the shared final smash; I'm expecting both Links to have the same custom moves, though I hope it's not the case.

Also, even if most of them are just variations on a base move, there's still room for meaningful variation - take Marth's Stinger and Kirby's Ice Breath for example. For Samus, things like Ice/Diffusion Missiles, Plasma Beam and Power Bomb/Hyper Ball can easily be incorporated given the examples we have.

 

[BassForever]

I don't understand this mind set that sakurai should cater smash more to the competitive/hardcore fans because they're the ones who "play/support the game the most". Yeah its true they play it the most, but like everyone else they're only 1 sale in a sea of sales. I'd guess probably 1% of all smash sales are competitive gamers/smashers and a good chunk are people who will play the game for a week then randomly bring it out for parties or hang outs.

Now I've heard "but making the game better for the competitive scene will make it better for the casual scene" but is that really true? Would your average smash player noticed if they added dash dancing or reduced landing lag? Probably not based upon the largely positive impressions from the non hardcore/competitive players. It honestly seems like lowering the skill ceiling is deliberate because Sakurai wants the game to be something anyone can pick up, play, and do well. Even with a lower skill ceiling the better players are going to edge out the not as good players 90% of the time, but that lowered ceiling lets more people compete and have fun at any level from party casual to 1 on 1 for glory matches.

Smash bros is by far the most played fighing game because its easy to pick up and play and it doesn't require a large time committment to do well. The more technical a game is the more frustraing it will be to your general player as the level of entry just to understand how the basic mechanics work is too high. It may not be what melee fans who enjoy a more technical fighter may like, but as long as Sakurai is at the helm of Smash Bros the series will continue to be one that is designed around a lower leveled of entry needed to do well.

 

[GameGuru59]

Making the game super defensive could be a by-product of balancing it around FFA with items instead of 1v1 seeing as there can be more sources of offense at any time.

This. Which is why I think tournaments should turn on some items.

 

[SliceSabre]

While it's undeniable that some people want Melee 2.0, most people who loved Melee just want more control options in Smash Bros 4.

- Reduced aerial landing lag
- Reduced lag after throwing opponent.

A simple reduction in the above two mechanics would be enjoyable for everyone playing the game. I don't think there is a single player, casual or hardcore, that wouldn't like to have more control over the movement of their character.

I guess if I'm honest and reasonable not every suggestion I've heard from the competitive side is unreasonable and there are some I agree with.

 

[Popnbake]

It seems that everything the competitive side wants changed is not an upgrade or anything like it, it is a regression. They want this to be Melee 2.0, in their heart of hearts they know that's want they really want because every suggestion comes from the melee angle or will make it play more like Melee. They do not want to learn a new game or discover new techs, they do not want Smash to progress onto the future. They want the game to play just like Melee except with new characters and stages.

I think they know we will not be getting Melee 2.0 but the demo did not give the impressions needed to show it can support the years worth of competitive play similar to Melee.

But it is just a demo (that I have yet to play >:/) meaning there can be plenty of changes made between now and release. The problem comes with whether or not those changes come from the feedback of the competitive players of which Sakurai has stated last year that he does not really consider for improvements.

We can only know how it turns out after release and after that you can be sure that they'll try to learn everything they can about the game or try to discover new techs.

I don't understand this mind set that sakurai should cater smash more to the competitive/hardcore fans because they're the ones who "play/support the game the most". Yeah its true they play it the most, but like everyone else they're only 1 sale in a sea of sales. I'd guess probably 1% of all smash sales are competitive gamers/smashers and a good chunk are people who will play the game for a week then randomly bring it out for parties or hang outs.

Well I think a good example for this can be Blizzard's Diablo 3.

They made the game more casual friendly in comparison to the depth found in Diablo 2 yet despite the fact of the hardcore players composing a smaller %
of overall sales, it's their feedback that Blizzard takes into consideration when it comes to patches and expansions.

Sakurai doesn't have to cater more to the competitive/hardcore side but when Nintendo wants to sell something like Gamecube adapters for the Wii U,
it wouldn't do much good to neglect them completely when deciding how Smash 4 will play.

 

[CesspoolofHatred]

If nothing else, I'd love to see Sakurai's reasoning for the landing lag if it's intentional. I couldn't care less about wavedashing or dash dancing or any of that, but the ability to L-cancel makes Project M preferable to Brawl for me or that reason alone. That and being able to fast fall aerials. It just feels more fun, and isn't hard to do.

Having not played the game myself, I'd guess that the primary logic behind that is to make it easier to punish errant aerials. I'm not sure how much the landing lag has been increased from any of Brawl's moves (I think I heard that Sonic's down air has higher landing lag?), but one thing I have heard from reading a translation of aMSa's notes is that DI is gone (this has probably been discussed already).

DI being nerfed is probably a bigger problem for the fighting community than landing lag is, because that has a direct impact on what direction you can go after you're launched by an attack. There's entire metagames based on influencing the direction your character goes after they've been launched, and how your opponent can react to it, or possibly predict/"read" where you're going and act based on that. I personally think that DI being nerfed might be a casualty of fixing the "air dodge out of hitstun" issue.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

While it's undeniable that some people want Melee 2.0, most people who loved Melee just want more control options in Smash Bros 4.

- Reduced aerial landing lag
- Reduced lag after throwing opponent.

A simple reduction in the above two mechanics would be enjoyable for everyone playing the game. I don't think there is a single player, casual or hardcore, that wouldn't like to have more control over the movement of their character.

Exactly. Brawl itself is already somewhat competitive in its own right, Smash 4, however is not far from being a straight up competitive game. It all comes down to lag, everything else about this game from a competitive point of view is beautiful. The the characters are unique and dynamic, the speed is just right, the animation is silky smooth, the game so far seems to be pretty balanced. All that needs to be done, is cut the lag in half.

 

[Lunar15]

I don't really care about casual or competitive. I haven't wave-dashed or L-cancelled in my life...

I just thought that Brawl was sort of a slow, overly defensive game that didn't leave much room for movement options or strategy, and thus was boring to watch/play after a prolonged period of time.

I want ridiculous items, crazy assist characters, final smashes, etc., all in. I don't want to destroy casual smash.

I just don't want it to be boring again and I'm afraid it will be.

This sums up my opinion as well. I enjoy both sides of smash; items, no items, ffa, 1v1, all of it. I've played in local tournaments, but most of my playtime was with friends in my apartment. I want this game to be enjoyable for everyone.

Quite frankly, I don't get where the opinion that having more competitive elements makes it worse for people who play casually comes from. Even my friends who are the most casual players possible could still tell something was off about brawl. It was slower, floatier, more defensive. We still put in hours upon hours, but there's nothing wrong in hoping the new game has a bit more "oomf".

 

[Anura]

False. People watch soccer and baseball. Those games are weighted heavily toward defense- more heavily than Smash will ever be. Furthermore, the premise that Brawl=defensive therefore it is boring, is also wrong. Brawl isn't played competitively in a major way for the same reason Mario Kart isn't played competitively. It's unbalanced and introduces weighted random elements. Tripping in Brawl punishes players for being highly mobile on the ground- the less movement you do on the ground, the less likely you are to trip. Meta-Knight and Pit in Brawl are ludicrously over-mobile. The game's defensive nature has little to do with it.

Even if defensive play (I prefer to call it "strategic play") were a major problem, tourney rules can address that. Proponents of Brawl competition (yes they exist) have proposed going to 1 stock matches instead of the standard 3 stocks in Melee. Or you could keep three stocks and determine the winner by the number of stocks at the end of a timed match (if it were a tie, let the game enter sudden death). OR *gasp*, you could try turning on a limited selection of items (heresy, I know).

Smash Bros. is a much more dynamic game than the Melee worshipers make it out to be. Sakurai gives you a plethora of options to make the game competitive in lieu the physics glitches features you guys found in Melee. So long as your mind is open that is. If you want to play Melee, play Melee. But don't shit on a game that (1) isn't Melee, (2) isn't finished yet, and (3) is clearly fun to watch from the tournament we just had at E3. At least, I had fun watching it.

There is literally nothing stopping someone from using "strategic" play styles in melee. The thing is most people don't and they don't enjoy them either. The backlash against brawl being slow is that very few players enjoy that play style at a higher level and simply isn't fun for them. So yes defensive does equal boring for many of many people

Wavedashing/L canceling aren't glitches and we aren't dissapointed because it isn't melee 2.0 we are dissapointed because so far it looks like brawl 2.0 and that certainly didn't look fun for me

If you like Brawl than that's fine but I wish people would stop pretending people don't like it because "it's just different and they don't want to adapt" when there is much more going on

 

[Beelzebufo]

Isn't the problem with Brawl that there's no landing lag on arial dodges so it's unpunishable?

I was talking about attacks

 

[MagiusNecros]

Just noticed browsing through one of the vids someone took from one of the Best Buy location's that Magnus from Uprising is an Assist. Pretty neat. Hope his theme is in the game.

 

[KHlover]

I don't understand this mind set that sakurai should cater smash more to the competitive/hardcore fans because they're the ones who "play/support the game the most". Yeah its true they play it the most, but like everyone else they're only 1 sale in a sea of sales. I'd guess probably 1% of all smash sales are competitive gamers/smashers and a good chunk are people who will play the game for a week then randomly bring it out for parties or hang outs.

Now I've heard "but making the game better for the competitive scene will make it better for the casual scene" but is that really true? Would your average smash player noticed if they added dash dancing or reduced landing lag? Probably not based upon the largely positive impressions from the non hardcore/competitive players. It honestly seems like lowering the skill ceiling is deliberate because Sakurai wants the game to be something anyone can pick up, play, and do well. Even with a lower skill ceiling the better players are going to edge out the not as good players 90% of the time, but that lowered ceiling lets more people compete and have fun at any level from party casual to 1 on 1 for glory matches.

Smash bros is by far the most played fighing game because its easy to pick up and play and it doesn't require a large time committment to do well. The more technical a game is the more frustraing it will be to your general player as the level of entry just to understand how the basic mechanics work is too high. It may not be what melee fans who enjoy a more technical fighter may like, but as long as Sakurai is at the helm of Smash Bros the series will continue to be one that is designed around a lower leveled of entry needed to do well.

Well said.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Just noticed browsing through one of the vids someone took from one of the Best Buy location's that Magnus from Uprising is an Assist. Pretty neat. Hope his theme is in the game.

Yeah, it's pretty cool to see Magnus as assist trophy so people can stop asking for him to be playable character.

 

[Lunar15]

Just noticed browsing through one of the vids someone took from one of the Best Buy location's that Magnus from Uprising is an Assist. Pretty neat. Hope his theme is in the game.

Wait, what!? Awesome if true!

 

[Anura]

I don't understand this mind set that sakurai should cater smash more to the competitive/hardcore fans because they're the ones who "play/support the game the most". Yeah its true they play it the most, but like everyone else they're only 1 sale in a sea of sales. I'd guess probably 1% of all smash sales are competitive gamers/smashers and a good chunk are people who will play the game for a week then randomly bring it out for parties or hang outs.

Now I've heard "but making the game better for the competitive scene will make it better for the casual scene" but is that really true? Would your average smash player noticed if they added dash dancing or reduced landing lag? Probably not based upon the largely positive impressions from the non hardcore/competitive players. It honestly seems like lowering the skill ceiling is deliberate because Sakurai wants the game to be something anyone can pick up, play, and do well. Even with a lower skill ceiling the better players are going to edge out the not as good players 90% of the time, but that lowered ceiling lets more people compete and have fun at any level from party casual to 1 on 1 for glory matches.

Smash bros is by far the most played fighing game because its easy to pick up and play and it doesn't require a large time committment to do well. The more technical a game is the more frustraing it will be to your general player as the level of entry just to understand how the basic mechanics work is too high. It may not be what melee fans who enjoy a more technical fighter may like, but as long as Sakurai is at the helm of Smash Bros the series will continue to be one that is designed around a lower leveled of entry needed to do well.

Melee was just as easy to pick up. The stuff people are asking for has no effect on entry level play

 

[NeonZ]

While it's undeniable that some people want Melee 2.0, most people who loved Melee just want more control options in Smash Bros 4.

- Reduced aerial landing lag
- Reduced lag after throwing opponent.

A simple reduction in the above two mechanics would be enjoyable for everyone playing the game. I don't think there is a single player, casual or hardcore, that wouldn't like to have more control over the movement of their character.

The reduced leg after throwing an opponent is likely to avoid situations where the thrown player has no control and can just be further attacked without chances of defense. That lack of control is something desired by the competitive communities in general (which was what led to combos being popular in fighting games in general in the first place, after being basically just accidental in SF2), but it's not something desirable by casual players, who quickly get frustrated in situations like that. That's one thing I really don't think they'll touch.

Aerial landing lag though seems more like something Sakurai implemented to make the game be played "correctly" from his point of view. Land attacks for land battle, discouraging short hops + attacks. I think there's a chance he could fix that, considering how it's not really something that bothers most players, competitive or not, but it depends on how much he values his game design plan compared to the impressions that he's receiving, and if the negative reactions to it really go beyond the tournament base.

Melee was just as easy to pick up. The stuff people are asking for has no effect on entry level play

It could actually have a strong effect though thanks to online play. People won't be playing just within their groups any longer, and, if there are many advanced techniques that lead to an obviously superior playstyle, that could be easily visible online, leading to a frustrating experience, even if the players using those techniques aren't actually that great. That happens in online fighting games all the time.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Wait, what!? Awesome if true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTeAofrEKIM

 

[Dr.Hadji]

False. People watch soccer and baseball. Those games are weighted heavily toward defense- more heavily than Smash will ever be. Furthermore, the premise that Brawl=defensive therefore it is boring, is also wrong. Brawl isn't played competitively in a major way for the same reason Mario Kart isn't played competitively. It's unbalanced and introduces weighted random elements. Tripping in Brawl punishes players for being highly mobile on the ground- the less movement you do on the ground, the less likely you are to trip. Meta-Knight and Pit in Brawl are ludicrously over-mobile. The game's defensive nature has little to do with it.

It's like the past 4 years didn't happen or something. Did I miss something. Brawl was the dominate and biggest form a Smash ever until very recently. Are you guys unaware of this or do you love lying?

LOL. Did you just say Pit is over-anything in Brawl?! LOL!!!

 

[Toxi]

Melee was just as easy to pick up. The stuff people are asking for has no effect on entry level play

But like, wave dashing is a problem. I couldn't even have fun with Melee because I couldn't do it in our all-Pokeball matches. Clearly I could never win a game without it.

 

[Tookay]

This sums up my opinion as well. I enjoy both sides of smash; items, no items, ffa, 1v1, all of it. I've played in local tournaments, but most of my playtime was with friends in my apartment. I want this game to be enjoyable for everyone.

Quite frankly, I don't get where the opinion that having more competitive elements makes it worse for people who play casually comes from. Even my friends who are the most casual players possible could still tell something was off about brawl. It was slower, floatier, more defensive. We still put in hours upon hours, but there's nothing wrong in hoping the new game has a bit more "oomf".

Yep.

I've never been to a tournament; I actually disagree with most of their rulesets. I mostly play FFA and with items on. I don't think I'm a "competitive" Smash player... but I guess I find myself on that alignment if it means making the game a little deeper, a little faster, and a little more viably offensive.

I just thought Brawl was weird and less fun than the previous two incarnations; the physics never quite clicked with me. Sometimes it felt downright arbitrary how certain properties worked. And, like you, my "casual" friends noticed it too, although they couldn't articulate it to the same degree (and heck, I can barely articulate it myself).

It didn't stop us from playing it hundreds of hours either, but I definitely know at this point what I like in Smash. And what I liked would not have "made it worse for casual players."

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Twitter decided to resize it, but here's my progress on mapping alternative colors revealed at E3 so far. Still missing a lot, so many people decided to play with just traditional colors in demos.

 

[SliceSabre]

-sprites-

Twitter decided to resize it, but here's my progress on mapping alternative colors revealed at E3 so far. Still missing a lot, so many people decided to play with just traditional colors in demos.

You are doing great work here, Neo.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I'm really liking Blue Mac, Pink Greninja, Purple DK, and all of the Mega Man and Link alts. Does Luigi also have a Wario color?

 

[Cse]

Yep.

I've never been to a tournament; I actually disagree with most of their rulesets. I mostly play FFA and with items on. I don't think I'm a "competitive" Smash player... but I guess I find myself on that alignment if it means making the game a little deeper, a little faster, and a little more viably offensive.

I just thought Brawl was weird and less fun than the previous two incarnations; the physics never quite clicked with me. Sometimes it felt downright arbitrary how certain properties worked. And, like you, my "casual" friends noticed it too, although they couldn't articulate it to the same degree (and heck, I can barely articulate it myself).

I agree completely.

I've never been a competitive player either, nor have I ever participated in a tournament. I spent hudreds of hours with Smash 64, thousands of hours with Melee, and about 20 hours with Brawl. It just never felt right.

 

[Berordn]

Above all else I'm just glad that they managed to give Greninja actual color alts.

Hopefully they get to do the same with Charizard, Lucario and Sonic.