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[Kater]

I completely blocked out the bordel stage from my memories of The Darkness 2 until she mentioned it (and showed a clip of it in her video).
That was a really unsettling moment when I played through that level in the game.

I hope a lot of people from the game industry are taking cues from this video and we will see a change in upcoming video games as an reaction.

 

[Aquamarine]

Mod Edit:
For your reference, here's a brief list of things that aren't particularly relevant to discussion here:
-these videos take a long time
-these videos probably cost less than $140k to make
-these videos/the Kickstarter are making/made Sarkeesian money
-these videos are only presenting Sarkeesian's side of the argument
-Sarkeesian wears makeup/earrings/whatever
-Sarkeesian turned off comments to her videos
-Sarkeesian wants to make money
-Sarkeesian is not a being of pure virtue, making videos solely to help humanity with no gain accruing to herself
-Sarkeesian likes/wants attention/death threats/whatever

We'd like to strongly recommend that if one of the above is your contribution to the thread, you either come up with something relevant to say, or not bother. Note that this list is not exhaustive. Thank you.

What a fantastic preface to this video. Hopefully it will stave off some of the same complaints that tend to be reiterated in Sarkeesian threads.

 

[anaron]

I think this is her most well put together video yet. As usual, enjoying this series a lot.

 

[Easy_D]

I don't get it. Would anyone miss the prostitutes if they weren't in Binary Domain? Would there be anyone going "Where the fuck are my hookers, game developer!?".
It's a valid example.

 

[meijiko]

Good video. I knew about prostitutes in GTA etc. but I had no idea it was so common in open world games and that it was invariably so goofy and stupid. I second whoever said the devs really are 16-year-olds.

The only part I don't quite agree with is the violence aspect. Those games allow the player to assault or kill just about any NPC, not just the objectified women. She does point that out a bit later but seem to handwave it a bit.

Yeah, I had pretty much the same reaction. I don't mess around with open world games, but seeing how prevalent these sorts of things are is kind of alarming.

And I do think her violence argument is weak, in this case. I think if she presented it as a sort of reinforcement that video games can be more harmful due to this level of interactivity, rather than pointing to it as a phenomenon specifically targeted towards women, it might have been a better point. Which is sad, because many will use it to try and invalidate her entire argument.

 

[anaron]

I don't get it. Would anyone miss the prostitutes if they weren't in Binary Domain? Would there be anyone going "Where the fuck are my hookers, game developer!?".
It's a valid example.

Waiting for the inevitable "the developers vision tho! If we force them to think about things, it will change the quality" post

 

[Htown]

I hope a lot of people from the game industry are taking cues from this video and we will see a change in upcoming video games as an reaction.

I wouldn't expect many changes from big publishers.

Which is sad, because many will use it to try and invalidate her entire argument.

That's going to happen regardless. It's always some nitpicky little thing. Don't worry about it.

 

[Seeds]

Trying to make a dubious claim based on extremely rare examples is "cherrypicking." Deciding to investigate a particular thing and finding example of it is just "picking."

As others have pointed out, the topics of most of the Tropes vs. Women series are quite common in other media.

A slum with prostitutes in an enviroment in which people are suffering isn't supposed to be a background decoration but a easy way to portray the hopelessness of those involved.

 

[HK-47]

Eh GTA I've always looked at GTA as a Scarface-caliber satire. Which is to say, even though all those things may be true to their intention, the end result is that they've created a thing that goes over people's heads more often than not, and that's their fault. It's like South Park: sure, Cartman is supposed to be detestable, but they've ended up creating a guy that's so funny that tons of people love him and so go around talking about "Jew gold" and laughing.

A proper satire leaves you frowning, these leave you smiling.

Sorry but I laughed out loud when I read A Modest Proposal. Satire isnt humorless.

 

[inm8num2]

I think this is her most well put together video yet. As usual, enjoying this series a lot.

Agreed. Some of the smaller details of the examples she uses can be debated, but I think she supports her overall hypothesis pretty well. Though, it seems that opinions of these videos can hinge upon whether someone is in a state of acknowledging such gender/diversity issues exist or necessitate attention (as some people don't per recent or previous threads on these subjects).

 

[Zomba13]

I think it's pretty bullshit to highlight the violence etc towards women in games where you can do the same (and in some cases worse) to the male characters and random NPCs. Yeah, it's not nice to beat a woman and throw her corpse down a well but it's not nice to do that to anyone and when you can do that to both men and women in a game it shouldn't be seen as something against women.

Not played much RDR so no idea if you can hog tie men or not and put them on tracks but I do understand the reference to old westerns and movies where the bad guy with a snidely whiplash moustache would do that. If that can only be done to women then that is a bit messed up.

I also don't buy the bit about how the females are just there for you to have your way with. How the player is rewarded for killing them and how they are expected to derive joy and sexual pleasure from playing with their bodies and having power over them. I mean, some people might feel that way but those people are also the type that should probably see someone about it before they do something horrible to an actual, real female.

I don't get it. Would anyone miss the prostitutes if they weren't in Binary Domain? Would there be anyone going "Where the fuck are my hookers, game developer!?".
It's a valid example.

I honestly didn't even know there were any in it. Maybe I just can't remember them but I vaguely remember the slums area but not them.
I personally think a lot of games don't need prostitutes.

 

[Gruco]

Ugh, that video was painful to watch. I have to wonder how so many game developers feel these sorts of scenarios are necessary, or at the very least beneficial to the overall experience.

I feel really gross for watching some of this shit.

Yeah, as someone who doesn't play sandbox games, that was really shocking. I can't believe how commonplace, extreme, and pointless the devices described were.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

When is there going to be a proactive movement to create games that all the social justice proponents find appealing? I see lots of shaming but no actual effort to create new games and expand the market by and for all these people.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

I don't get it. Would anyone miss the prostitutes if they weren't in Binary Domain? Would there be anyone going "Where the fuck are my hookers, game developer!?".
It's a valid example.

Probably not for a game like Binary Domain but open world games that try to depict street life would probably be criticized for pretending sex workers don't exist. Likewise if you were unable to attack said NPCs but were able to attack anyone else people would wonder why the double standard.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Eh GTA I've always looked at GTA as a Scarface-caliber satire. Which is to say, even though all those things may be true to their intention, the end result is that they've created a thing that goes over people's heads more often than not, and that's their fault. It's like South Park: sure, Cartman is supposed to be detestable, but they've ended up creating a guy that's so funny that tons of people love him and so go around talking about "Jew gold" and laughing.

A proper satire leaves you frowning, these leave you smiling.

No it isn't, and that's not how satire works. If that be the case, we'd abolish The Onion for existing as is since many, many people still cite them as a credible source.

Same thing with South Park. Just because people can be dumb sometimes doesn't mean we need to be overt.

Hell, I take the overt part back - GTAV is so in your face about it throughout the storyline it shouldn't be that hard to take it at a proper level, but it is for some. That doesn't diminish the point, rather, how people aren't doing research.

 

[AAK]

I think addressing the nature of NPCs is fair, but also a bit selective inasmuch as male NPCs are also replicated and are also equally disposable.
There is a point to be made about the commodification of women, but when you look at games like Assassin's Creed Freedom Cry, you have a game that commodifies slaves and literally turns people - regardless of gender - into collectables. I think there's a larger problem with game design in that case, but I'll admit that very often women are used in that way more often in open world games.

Like she said, equal objectification shouldn't be the solution.

 

[Authority]

I wasn't interested in watching this one because I don't find her videos all that interesting, but what is it specifically about the background nature of women that is unique to games? Because so far this is stuff you can find in any medium.

How about you start watching the video which you should have since it is a topic related to the video she starts off with? I don't understand why we are obliged to answer to your question because you are refusing to participate.

And for the record,

As always it is highly possible to be critical about an aspect of a game while finding other aspects valuable

And highlight it as fuck so there no goalposts stating that she thinks all video games all the time represent women as as either oversexualized or beaten up.

 

[halfbeast]

oh wow, that "you're so handsome I think I'm gonna give you a discount"-line probably made a bunch of insecure boys really happy!

those scenes put together one after another was really painful to watch. although, in defense of the AC series, there was context with the prostitutes in AC2 which led to them helping Ezio out. while Ezio's story came to an end the mechanic remained, and that's just lazy game design.

 

[kirblar]

Eh GTA I've always looked at GTA as a Scarface-caliber satire. Which is to say, even though all those things may be true to their intention, the end result is that they've created a thing that goes over people's heads more often than not, and that's their fault. It's like South Park: sure, Cartman is supposed to be detestable, but they've ended up creating a guy that's so funny that tons of people love him and so go around talking about "Jew gold" and laughing.

A proper satire leaves you frowning, these leave you smiling.

If people didn't do satire because dumb people would miss the point, we wouldn't have satire.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I think it's pretty bullshit to highlight the violence etc towards women in games where you can do the same (and in some cases worse) to the male characters and random NPCs. Yeah, it's not nice to beat a woman and throw her corpse down a well but it's not nice to do that to anyone and when you can do that to both men and women in a game it shouldn't be seen as something against women.

Not played much RDR so no idea if you can hog tie men or not and put them on tracks but I do understand the reference to old westerns and movies where the bad guy with a snidely whiplash moustache would do that. If that can only be done to women then that is a bit messed up.

I also don't buy the bit about how the females are just there for you to have your way with. How the player is rewarded for killing them and how they are expected to derive joy and sexual pleasure from playing with their bodies and having power over them. I mean, some people might feel that way but those people are also the type that should probably see someone about it before they do something horrible to an actual, real female.

What does that mean though, is watching AMC Hollywood classic movies a bad thing now? Those movies also didn't kill couples while they were having sex or called them up on the phone only to hunt them down like prey. It's like going through old photographs and yelling at people who are probably already dead by now that they were wrong for wearing something or standing a certain way. John Wayne did what John Wayne did. I can't retell the west any differently and I'm not trying to add fire here either.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I think the topics of criticism are slowly getting closer to what I was hoping to see brought in. This is a much better commentary than the earlier videos. I have a trickle of complaints about her use of out-of-context imagery to support a point, but I'm not disagreeing with the underlying point.

I will say, I wish she had made earlier recognition of situations where a game is necessarily trying to simulate a real-world or existing media image of a particular space, like a brothel. In the same way I wouldn't quite agree with categorical criticism of violence in a game if the game is using organized crime as the "workspace" for its narrative.

I agree that is the best of her videos... Until devolves in the usual descontextualized examples (the sand box game montage against prostitues).

Is frustrating because she made good points and good examples.

 

[PK Gaming]

Great episode

She raised some pretty solid points (equal opportunity objectification is not the solution to the problem) + (all toasters toast toast, even if you don't use them).

I can't wait for the next episode. The wait is going to be so painful...

 

[Red Chocobo]

It would look pretty stupid if the strip bars in gams didn't actually have any strippers.

Mission 1: Go in the strip joint and look at the wall.

 

[jimi_dini]

I live in the lower income part of town and I can go weeks, months or even the occasional year without seeing a prostitute. Some of these games make it seem like they should be on every corner.

So you are from the future (to be exact the year 2080) and you actually live in Tokyo?

Are there robots everywhere? And there are robots, that think that they are people? I really have to know this.

And there actually was world wide flooding leaving 3/4 of the world's cities uninhabitable? Oh my god, we are all doomed.

I am only talking about Binary Domain. Complain about GTA prostitutes all day. I will totally agree.

I'm also not sure how a prostitute is not a sex object, that's pretty much the point, regardless of how skimpy the clothes are.

The NPC is not a sex object to the player. That's the important part. It's rather depressing and sad to look at those. I doubt any player would think "hey yeah, can't see tities, but I definitely want to bang this NPC". And even if someone actually did, nothing will happen in that direction and your team will actually hate you for it.

Just compare BD's NPC with GTA prostitutes. I don't know about GTA V, because I will never play that. But in previous GTAs it was possible to bang them. Which makes them literally sex objects.

 

[Paskil]

The mod edit is amazing. I really hope it keeps this thread on topic and helps to avoid stupid

Spoiler

fucking

ad hominem and red herring arguments.

I foresee this thread being a wasteland of gray names. Can't wait to watch the video later tonight and read back over this thread. Really enjoyed the first few videos released, thus far. Thanks for posting, OP.

 

[Enduin]

Pretty good, should have been her first video topic. Damsel in Distress series didn't really deliver, though it did improve with each episode, and Ms Male Gamer was interesting but not exactly hard hitting.

 

[anaron]

When is there going to be a proactive movement to create games that all the social justice proponents find appealing? I see lots of shaming but no actual effort to create new games and expand the market by and for all these people.

if the industry at large doesn't see a problem with it, why would they even attempt to create new games addressing these problems? Anita is one of many that are trying to create a discussion about these problems popular in the industry because said discussion has never really taken off until recently. People are starting to acknowledge how gross and harmful these things can be and are hopefully encouraged to do better.

And I adore the way you categorize "these people" as if there's something inherently niche about wanting women to not be treated as sexual decor.

 

[Basketball]

The witcher series was covered in the video but I know it's one with all types of representation of women.

 

[hawk2025]

Just finished.

This video is yet another marked improvement over her previous ones.

It's on point, shows dozens upon dozens of relevant examples with very, very little misleading content -- and tops it off by punctuating why and how this is an important issue by citing actual research.

I'm straight up impressed on how this video series has evolved.

 

[Foffy]

Yeah, I had pretty much the same reaction. I don't mess around with open world games, but seeing how prevalent these sorts of things are is kind of alarming.

And I do think her violence argument is weak, in this case. I think if she presented it as a sort of reinforcement that video games can be more harmful due to this level of interactivity, rather than pointing to it as a phenomenon specifically targeted towards women, it might have been a better point. Which is sad, because many will use it to try and invalidate her entire argument.

I think the only way it would really invalidate her entire argument would be if she really tried to heavily link the two, that one absolutely causes the other. Her introduction with the violence was so poor that I don't think that happened. People who try to piss on her entire video by associating the two are making more of a claim than she ever did. The violence bit only seemed to be brushed in there, and as I said in a previous post, I don't think it worked. Her arguments for incentivising acts on women for things or to be disposed can absolutely apply to men, or any service where you have an option to kill the person after you get what you want.

 

[Kater]

I wouldn't expect many changes from big publishers.


That's going to happen regardless. It's always some nitpicky little thing. Don't worry about it.

But:
http://www.feministfrequency.com/2014/04/the-2014-game-developers-choice-ambassador-award/

I'm optimistic.

Spoiler

Maybe delusionally so.

 

[prodystopian]

Are there any non minor spoilers in the Witcher 2, Deus Ex HR, Bioshock Infinite Burial at Sea segments?

 

[Zaptruder]

Gonna watch the whole episode... only 4 mins in...

But is it a fair criticism of the video to say that the analysis seems... shallow?

Fair point - sexism exists in video games. And there are indeed many examples of it. To watch the video would prove that the whole videogame industry is rather damned.


But as others have acknowledged - this kinda sexism exists and is reflective of a greater societal sexism as a whole.

The kind of analysis I'd like to see is more cross references across industries and culture - how does videogames as a medium compare to everything else? More progressive? Less progressive? About the same? Is it getting better or worse? How does this sort of sexism impact customer purchase decisions? Are they driving female gamers away? Or is it that these games by their inherent nature are primarily appealing to men that developers feel it advantageous to use existing sex sell marketing tropes?

 

[Broken Joystick]

"A toaster is still a toaster, regardless of whether you make toast with it. It still designed for the purpose of toasting bread and still communicates that fact while unused. Likewise a sex object is still a sex object, regardless of whether the player chooses to use it or not."

I like that a lot, a lot of people will dismiss points because "they don't do it" or whatever, but that's not the point. Really good video.

 

[shandy706]

I showed my wife this video and we had an interesting conversation.

The advertising, with women tacked on, we both felt was a bit unnecessarily and silly. The crazy part is, both of us being gamers, we both remember a LOT of those ads in magazines and even in some arcades.

I asked her what she thought about the actual "in-game" examples. While, again, we didn't think it was necessary in any many ways or games, she did have a similar thought as me to some of the situations in the games.

She said that she thinks a lot of the games do mirror real life. She doesn't think it should always be included in games (and of course knows it isn't), but she thinks that the settings of the games and the inclusion of strip clubs/call girls/hookers is as much a real thing as violence in a shooter.

(Her favorite shooters are Halo, CoD, and the Bioshock series)

I asked if she thought it was always included just for guys to see naked women? She says "Maybe, sometimes". She said she could see it being included just to make a guy want to play it. Again, though, she says she doesn't mind it IF it makes sense in the setting.

She watched me play Max Payne 3 and commented on the sex/strip club I went in. Her reaction wasn't in disgust that naked women were in the game, or that they were there to "exploit" women to sell the game to guys. She actually feels that it is sad "Seeing what look like sex slaves, and the reality of that most likely being something one would actually run across in a setting like this, in real life."

Anyway, throughout the video and our conversations we agreed on a lot of things. Some of it is outright bad/messed up (ads and scenes that aren't even necessary) and some of it seems to fit the gritty/dark/realistic setting of a situation or time period....or even the type of character one plays as or around.

In the end I asked if she was bothered at all by it "Not really" is her answer, so I don't think I could have conversation with my wife about how she feels about it negatively shedding light or using women.

She doesn't seem to be offended by it or really have a strong opinion. In fact, she seems to be more inclined to laugh at some of the scenes or make jokes about them (minus the sad situations some women in real life may go through to end up in the real life version of the examples).

Anyway, this wasn't a big long "get it all out" sort of session. Just a quickie..we may come back to it as I asked her to think about it...if she wants. (she may not think twice about it...we will see)



Edit** Oh, one thing I forgot. She brought up a real life situation that happened to me. I work around a lot of rehabilitation and construction in low-income areas from time to time. I have one job (it's actually closing out right now) that literally went right by "hooker hill" (according to locals). There were women of all types that worked the street and corner we were near. I talked to a couple of them, they would approach myself and the crews, and some of the conversations were certainly interesting. One particular girl was very attractive. I'd say about 5' 4", dark hair, very pretty face, probably 25-30 years old and most likely on some drugs...it looked like they were just starting to take their toll. The first couple times she talked to me she just asked me how I was. She asked if I was married (showed her my ring) and asked what I do when I don't work.

There was no talk of sex during the first few conversations....actually, none at all with me. I'm guessing she figured out, from my talking about my wife and kids, that I wasn't interested in more than a conversation.

It wasn't until a crew member asked her "Why not get a real job?" that I heard her say something you would expect out of one of these video game characters. Her response "A blowjob is better than no job". I wasn't sure if I should laugh or just feel horrible for her. It made me wonder if she REALLY felt that way, or if it was a line fed to her by someone else.

I don't know if this story is relevant...but I figured I'd share it. Situations like in these games, are they real?? Most certainly.

I guess whether they are always necessary is certainly up for debate. The sad truth though....it's not unrealistic...in more ways than one.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

I've never played Red Dead Redemption, but wow @ the woman still trying to get your services after you kidnap her. The fact that you get an achievement for killing her via locomotive is extra lulzy.

 

[Gamerloid]

She covers a lot of good points, and I didn't know about some of the things like the arcade advertisement and how many games have full frontal nudity with strippers. Its the same way with The Youth Fair. Rides like the Polar Express features women barely wearing anything, while the guys are heavily clothed because its obviously cold.

Its a pretty solid video, but it's not without its flaws however. I disagree with games like GTA and Mafia being hit on when those games are trying to capture reality. In GTA, you're a criminal that will on any job for the money. Strip clubs and all that will of course be apart of that life style. Same for the Mafia franchise, they really do interact with the adult industry.

It did go overboard with the whole stripper taking you to her place for sex because you fondled her well. Using a hooker for health via sex and then killing her for your money back is pretty messed up when thinking about it. Free health. So even for both GTA and Mafia, the strippers, hookers, etc don't like a people.

About Sleeping Dogs. I never played it, but the setting is in China correct? Why would a Chinese lady be talking broken English when the whole game should be translated so we can understand it? Is she really speaking bad Chinese?

 

[Brakke]

Sorry but I laughed out loud when I read A Modest Proposal. Satire isnt humorless.

Yeah but A Modest Proposal was written in the 1700s and you read it as a high school freshman. It's not exactly holding up a mirror to today. Thing was scathing when it was published, now it's like a goofy British thing that American kids laugh at.

No it isn't, and that's not how satire works. If that be the case, we'd abolish The Onion for existing as is since many, many people still cite them as a credible source.

Same thing with South Park. Just because people can be dumb sometimes doesn't mean we need to be overt.

Hell, I take the overt part back - GTAV is so in your face about it throughout the storyline it shouldn't be that hard to take it at a proper level, but it is for some. That doesn't diminish the point, rather, how people aren't doing research.

I'm saying, if the joke is "this will be funny to people that already agree with my premise because this is absurd" and then you show it to someone who doesn't already agree with your premise, they won't laugh uncomfortably or go "oh man yeah that's harsh but I get it now". They'll laugh along and go "yeah prostitutes aren't people haha I'm going to pay this bitch and then kill her haha" because they believe that's cool.

If your satire doesn't or in fact cannot change someone's mind, then it's not effective at all. If you've ended up enforcing someone's shitty attitude, you've made the world worse. Even if that's not your intention it's your fault. There's obviously a spectrum or a scale here--some people are just going to be wrong in their interpretation. But the lion's share of people look at Scarface as badass and GTA as "fun".

 

[firehawk12]

Like she said, equal objectification shouldn't be the solution.

Oh, I agree. "Men get beaten too, so therefore violence against women isn't really important" is a line I've seen many times.

As someone who has taught women's studies, the one thing I find fascinating is that women will defend the right to use cosmetics even though they understand that they are trying to approach standards that are impossible to obtain. And the one defense I see all the time is "Men use make up too, so why can't I?" But that's a whole different thing entirely.

I think I just find representational issues, on the surface, to be less interesting than the kerfuffle with Ubisoft at E3 last week. But then again, I find the idea of using standard tropes as he basis of series a bit misconstrued in the first place.

How about you start watching the video which you should have since it is a topic related to the video she starts off with? I don't understand why we are obliged to answer to your question because you are refusing to participate.

And for the record,

And highlight it as fuck so there no goalposts stating that she thinks all video games all the time represent women as as either oversexualized or beaten up.

Well, I've seen her last two videos, and if nothing has changed in her approach to the subject matter, then I know I won't get anything out of it. Watching the last fifteen minutes of the video, as recommended above, kind of suggests the same.

And the problem with being selective is that you end up leaving room for people to address contradictions in your examples. She does that at the end of the video, but I think it's something she should use more.

 

[Vice]

Gonna watch the whole episode... only 4 mins in...

But is it a fair criticism of the video to say that the analysis seems... shallow?

Fair point - sexism exists in video games. And there are indeed many examples of it. To watch the video would prove that the whole videogame industry is rather damned.


But as others have acknowledged - this kinda sexism exists and is reflective of a greater societal sexism as a whole.

The kind of analysis I'd like to see is more cross references across industries and culture - how does videogames as a medium compare to everything else? More progressive? Less progressive? About the same? Is it getting better or worse? How does this sort of sexism impact customer purchase decisions? Are they driving female gamers away? Or is it that these games by their inherent nature are primarily appealing to men that developers feel it advantageous to use existing sex sell marketing tropes?

It's in line with her other videos. They seem to be meant as an intro to the topic of tropes and women rather than offering more in-depth criticism.

 

[Metroid-Squadron]

if the industry at large doesn't see a problem with it, why would they even attempt to create new games addressing these problems? Anita is one of many that are trying to create a discussion about these problems popular in the industry because said discussion has never really taken off until recently. People are starting to acknowledge how gross and harmful these things can be and are hopefully encouraged to do better.

And I adore the way you categorize "these people" as if there's something inherently niche about wanting women to not be treated as sexual decor.

Not everybody is offended by the same things you are. Now, it seems to me that you've given up without even trying. Indies are making way innovating every day, challenging the established industry and expanding the market (as happened explosively in the mobile sector, thanks to them women now make 48% of the entire gaming market).

Why can't you even try? Anita got 150k to talk about sexism. I'm sure projects for actual games could get the same or even more.

 

[Authority]

Back on topic and to be fair, I disagree with GTA included and not only disagree but will not even move an inch from that position.

If you are willing to accept that GTA as it stands which is without a shadow of a doubt a complete satire of life, then you might as well stop watching South Park, Family Guy and everything that takes the piss of human nature including racist and sexist jokes from all the high profile comedians and black humorists alike.

Criticizing GTA from that angle is a black statement because you can't cut out satire and make a rational critique. The moment you do that is the moment when satire stops being a satire because you made an out of context judgment and your argument is a hollow one. If right now I am telling you a joke and you constantly stop me by asking "Why is he White and Why is he black?" then obviously there is no joke to tell. You can't tell a joke by stopping it and you can't show satire by cutting it.

 

[Zaphod]

So you are from the future (to be exact the year 2080) and you actually live in Tokyo?

Are there robots everywhere? And there are robots, that think that they are people? I really have to know this.

And there actually was world wide flooding leaving 3/4 of the world's cities uninhabitable? Oh my god, we are all doomed.

I am only talking about Binary Domain. Complain about GTA prostitutes all day. I will totally agree.



The NPC is not a sex object to the player. That's the important part. It's rather depressing and sad to look at those. I doubt any player would think "hey yeah, can't see tities, but I definitely want to bang this NPC". And even if someone actually did, nothing will happen in that direction and your team will actually hate you for it.

Just compare BD's NPC with GTA prostitutes. I don't know about GTA V, because I will never play that. But in previous GTAs it was possible to bang them. Which makes them literally sex objects.

So I'm supposed to figure all that out from a post that said a prostitute in a game isn't dressed sexy so she isn't a sex object.

 

[MartyStu]

Waiting for the inevitable "the developers vision tho! If we force them to think about things, it will change the quality" post

It WILL change the quality though.

Spoiler

For the better.

 

[Cat Party]

Only half way through but Jesus Christ this is embarrassing for all of us who play these games. Guess I'm never buying GTAV.

 

[Brakke]

If people didn't do satire because dumb people would miss the point, we wouldn't have satire.

I'm saying, if most people miss the point then the satire isn't effective.

 

[Htown]

About Sleeping Dogs. I never played it, but the setting is in China correct? Why would a Chinese lady be talking broken English when the whole game should be translated so we can understand it? Is she really speaking bad Chinese?

Sleeping Dogs is kinda weird. The game is mostly in English, but then characters will occasionally slip into actual Chinese with subtitles.

Maybe it's a Hong Kong thing. I don't know.

 

[firehawk12]

If your satire doesn't or in fact cannot change someone's mind, then it's not effective at all. If you've ended up enforcing someone's shitty attitude, you've made the world worse. Even if that's not your intention it's your fault. There's obviously a spectrum or a scale here--some people are just going to be wrong in their interpretation. But the lion's share of people look at Scarface as badass and GTA as "fun".

I find that GTA is more parody than satire. For all their talk about how GTAV is a glimpse into American masculinity in 2014, it doesn't actually say anything about it. Michael is still mostly a dick to his wife and Trevor is still a psychopath. Nothing is really said about their position as men in society, or is anything really troubled. At the end, you get to choose which one to side with... but you also get to choose to side with both, rendering any message pointless.

Sleeping Dogs is kinda weird. The game is mostly in English, but then characters will occasionally slip into actual Chinese with subtitles.

Maybe it's a Hong Kong thing. I don't know.

It's a game made for Western audiences. At least the radio stations and pedestrians are mostly Cantonese.

 

[anaron]

Not everybody is offended by the same things you are. Now, it seems to me that you've given up without even trying. Indies are making way innovating every day, challenging the established industry and expanding the market (as happened explosively in the mobile sector, thanks to them women now make 48% of the entire gaming market).

Why can't you even try? Anita got 150k to talk about sexism. I'm sure projects for actual games could get the same or even more.

Why can't big publishers try better?

 

[Abounder]

And it's going to get even worse with virtual reality where sex games are already being developed for male hetero gamers. Video games, like the rest of the world, is in a vicious cycle where men are number one. It seems like no one really cares about female gaming whether its sports or video games; for example I don't think we see male cheerleaders for women's basketball do we? Also reminds me of that Cartoon Network article where the execs flat out say they don't want a TV show for girls based on the bias that girls don't buy toys; and all you have to do is look at the cover of a superhero book or manga to see more of what Sarkeesian is talking about but in other industries.

Industries across the world could use more diversity. It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness, and hopefully activists can create video games that work towards such a goal.