2014 FIFA World Cup |OT3| Saturday 21st: ARG v IRN // GER v GHA // NGA v BIH

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fasTRapid said:
It arguably added excitement. I'd take South Africa's positive vuvuzela atmo over Brazil's clouds of negativity any day of the week. There's nothing more asshole-ish and unsportsmanlike like booing at random players in the world's biggest celebration of sport.
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Yeah I was really disappointed by the WC crowd... I noticed in several matches that if there is a team the crowd supports more than the other, they just keep whistling when the team they don't like has the ball, and chant "ole ole" when the other team has it, even if it isn't dominating. That's not very sportsmanlike.
 
The_Hitcher89 said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that tiki-taka has become less effective, offensively and defensively, since everyone has started adopting high intensity pressure at the front and in midfield, with disciplined defenders. Even teams who you don't think of as playing like that tend to have 3 or 4 players who close down effectively outside of the defense, and if they don't they lose control of games you expect them to dominate (Man Utd last season, us under Hodgson)

Look at Atletico in the CL final, as soon as their energy levels hit the brick wall in the 65th minute or so, it was one-way traffic and they were relying on Madrid making mistakes to see them through, as there seemed to be minutes at a time where Madrid were giving them the runaround.

The best way to fight tiki-taka is with energy, discipline and organisation, and neither Spain nor Barca have sufficiently added enough strings to the tiki-taka bow to deal with it when it hasn't quite worked against a good team. Against a Sevilla or someone they could get away with it as you can assume that eventually they'll leave a space to attack, or overcommit in midfield. But when they came to face Bayern (and when tiki-Bayern came to face Real) they fell apart in a tidal wave of pressing and defensive discipline, as have Spain this tournament.

The aspect of tiki-taka which is really stinking the place out is the sacrifice of chances for possession, with what seems to be an opinion that controlling possession is controlling the game. The fact of the matter is though that if one team has 40% possession and creates twice as many clear chances, they're probably going to win, and had a greater degree of control over the result.

Also, what we've seen this tournament is Spain almost trying to revert to the 2008 tactics of tiki-taka with attempts to attack properly. It clearly hasn't worked though, as they've made a complete mess of making use of said attacks, and the team is riddled with players whose primes are behind them, topped off with a striker who just doesn't fit in and ballsed up every shot he attempted anyway. So perhaps this is just a transitional tournament for Spain where they adjust their tactics for the upcoming generation who'll replace the 30+ year olds in the near future. I'm more inclined however to believe that Del Bosque just tried to fight fire with an electric blanket, and ended up with a triforce of disappointment, bad in attack, bad at retaining possession under pressure (false 9 would have helped), and terrible at keeping them out at the back. And let's be honest, it was tiki-taka and the players' suitability for it that was keeping the goals out at the back, not any great defensive ability of any 1 member of that back 5. Once teams figured out how to actually get at Spain, they've exposed Pique, Ramos and Casillas for what they are, good footballers, average defenders and a shaky goalkeeper.

In fact, I'd say Casillas is endemic of the tiki-taka persistence. In the team for no reason other than tradition at this point, even when it wasn;t working and they needed a proper plan B, rather than just slightly adjusting that which wasn't working. Lopez and De Gea are clearly, clearly better goalkeepers than him and have been for 2 years now. Del Bosque's idea of a plan B is to start passing more quickly, and making more long passes in the opposition half. That isn't enough when already losing and on the brink of such an embarassing exit.

Tiki-taka can still win plenty of tournaments, and excite fans when it doesn't become boringly safe, instead used to endlessly probe as Pep's Barca did in his first 2 or 3 seasons, and as Bayern apparently did last season in the Bundesliga, so no, it isn't dead. But it needs massive adjustments to become borderline unbeatable again, as top teams are finding it easy to overcome at the moment.
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Great post, deserves to be bumped again for more love.
 
The_Hitcher89 said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that tiki-taka has become less effective, offensively and defensively, since everyone has started adopting high intensity pressure at the front and in midfield, with disciplined defenders. Even teams who you don't think of as playing like that tend to have 3 or 4 players who close down effectively outside of the defense, and if they don't they lose control of games you expect them to dominate (Man Utd last season, us under Hodgson)

Look at Atletico in the CL final, as soon as their energy levels hit the brick wall in the 65th minute or so, it was one-way traffic and they were relying on Madrid making mistakes to see them through, as there seemed to be minutes at a time where Madrid were giving them the runaround.

The best way to fight tiki-taka is with energy, discipline and organisation, and neither Spain nor Barca have sufficiently added enough strings to the tiki-taka bow to deal with it when it hasn't quite worked against a good team. Against a Sevilla or someone they could get away with it as you can assume that eventually they'll leave a space to attack, or overcommit in midfield. But when they came to face Bayern (and when tiki-Bayern came to face Real) they fell apart in a tidal wave of pressing and defensive discipline, as have Spain this tournament.

The aspect of tiki-taka which is really stinking the place out is the sacrifice of chances for possession, with what seems to be an opinion that controlling possession is controlling the game. The fact of the matter is though that if one team has 40% possession and creates twice as many clear chances, they're probably going to win, and had a greater degree of control over the result.

Also, what we've seen this tournament is Spain almost trying to revert to the 2008 tactics of tiki-taka with attempts to attack properly. It clearly hasn't worked though, as they've made a complete mess of making use of said attacks, and the team is riddled with players whose primes are behind them, topped off with a striker who just doesn't fit in and ballsed up every shot he attempted anyway. So perhaps this is just a transitional tournament for Spain where they adjust their tactics for the upcoming generation who'll replace the 30+ year olds in the near future. I'm more inclined however to believe that Del Bosque just tried to fight fire with an electric blanket, and ended up with a triforce of disappointment, bad in attack, bad at retaining possession under pressure (false 9 would have helped), and terrible at keeping them out at the back. And let's be honest, it was tiki-taka and the players' suitability for it that was keeping the goals out at the back, not any great defensive ability of any 1 member of that back 5. Once teams figured out how to actually get at Spain, they've exposed Pique, Ramos and Casillas for what they are, good footballers, average defenders and a shaky goalkeeper.

In fact, I'd say Casillas is endemic of the tiki-taka persistence. In the team for no reason other than tradition at this point, even when it wasn;t working and they needed a proper plan B, rather than just slightly adjusting that which wasn't working. Lopez and De Gea are clearly, clearly better goalkeepers than him and have been for 2 years now. Del Bosque's idea of a plan B is to start passing more quickly, and making more long passes in the opposition half. That isn't enough when already losing and on the brink of such an embarassing exit.

Tiki-taka can still win plenty of tournaments, and excite fans when it doesn't become boringly safe, instead used to endlessly probe as Pep's Barca did in his first 2 or 3 seasons, and as Bayern apparently did last season in the Bundesliga, so no, it isn't dead. But it needs massive adjustments to become borderline unbeatable again, as top teams are finding it easy to overcome at the moment.
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*Marc liked this post*


Spain for me weren't even playing tika taka, they were trying to change styles and none of the players seemed to flow with it. Too patient for Costa, too quick for Iniesta and Silva, too exposed for the defense. Mish mash of ideas and ending up doing nothing.
 
Marc said:
*Marc liked this post*


Spain for me weren't even playing tika taka, they were trying to change styles and none of the players seemed to flow with it. Too patient for Costa, too quick for Iniesta and Silva, too exposed for the defense. Mish mash of ideas and ending up doing nothing.
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Agreed. During the matches and especially the analysis after them it became painfully clear that Spain neither had a structured offense nor a structured defense this WC. Looking at some of the GAPING holes in their defense...damn son, that wouldn't have been an acceptable defense 50 years ago, much less now.

To me Spain looked like they COMPLETELY changed their strategy in the final training camp before the tournament and had no experience with it yet.

Usually Spain is like a well-oiled machine, this performance looked like a team which hasn't played a single minute together yet. Really disappointing.
 
The_Hitcher89 said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that tiki-taka has become less effective, offensively and defensively, since everyone has started adopting high intensity pressure at the front and in midfield, with disciplined defenders. Even teams who you don't think of as playing like that tend to have 3 or 4 players who close down effectively outside of the defense, and if they don't they lose control of games you expect them to dominate (Man Utd last season, us under Hodgson)

Look at Atletico in the CL final, as soon as their energy levels hit the brick wall in the 65th minute or so, it was one-way traffic and they were relying on Madrid making mistakes to see them through, as there seemed to be minutes at a time where Madrid were giving them the runaround.

The best way to fight tiki-taka is with energy, discipline and organisation, and neither Spain nor Barca have sufficiently added enough strings to the tiki-taka bow to deal with it when it hasn't quite worked against a good team. Against a Sevilla or someone they could get away with it as you can assume that eventually they'll leave a space to attack, or overcommit in midfield. But when they came to face Bayern (and when tiki-Bayern came to face Real) they fell apart in a tidal wave of pressing and defensive discipline, as have Spain this tournament.

The aspect of tiki-taka which is really stinking the place out is the sacrifice of chances for possession, with what seems to be an opinion that controlling possession is controlling the game. The fact of the matter is though that if one team has 40% possession and creates twice as many clear chances, they're probably going to win, and had a greater degree of control over the result.

Also, what we've seen this tournament is Spain almost trying to revert to the 2008 tactics of tiki-taka with attempts to attack properly. It clearly hasn't worked though, as they've made a complete mess of making use of said attacks, and the team is riddled with players whose primes are behind them, topped off with a striker who just doesn't fit in and ballsed up every shot he attempted anyway. So perhaps this is just a transitional tournament for Spain where they adjust their tactics for the upcoming generation who'll replace the 30+ year olds in the near future. I'm more inclined however to believe that Del Bosque just tried to fight fire with an electric blanket, and ended up with a triforce of disappointment, bad in attack, bad at retaining possession under pressure (false 9 would have helped), and terrible at keeping them out at the back. And let's be honest, it was tiki-taka and the players' suitability for it that was keeping the goals out at the back, not any great defensive ability of any 1 member of that back 5. Once teams figured out how to actually get at Spain, they've exposed Pique, Ramos and Casillas for what they are, good footballers, average defenders and a shaky goalkeeper.

In fact, I'd say Casillas is endemic of the tiki-taka persistence. In the team for no reason other than tradition at this point, even when it wasn;t working and they needed a proper plan B, rather than just slightly adjusting that which wasn't working. Lopez and De Gea are clearly, clearly better goalkeepers than him and have been for 2 years now. Del Bosque's idea of a plan B is to start passing more quickly, and making more long passes in the opposition half. That isn't enough when already losing and on the brink of such an embarassing exit.

Tiki-taka can still win plenty of tournaments, and excite fans when it doesn't become boringly safe, instead used to endlessly probe as Pep's Barca did in his first 2 or 3 seasons, and as Bayern apparently did last season in the Bundesliga, so no, it isn't dead. But it needs massive adjustments to become borderline unbeatable again, as top teams are finding it easy to overcome at the moment.
Click to expand...

wow good read, you should stop by FootyGAF sometime.
 
Alx said:
Yeah I was really disappointed by the WC crowd... I noticed in several matches that if there is a team the crowd supports more than the other, they just keep whistling when the team they don't like has the ball, and chant "ole ole" when the other team has it, even if it isn't dominating. That's not very sportsmanlike.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 
Alx said:
Yeah I was really disappointed by the WC crowd... I noticed in several matches that if there is a team the crowd supports more than the other, they just keep whistling when the team they don't like has the ball, and chant "ole ole" when the other team has it, even if it isn't dominating. That's not very sportsmanlike.
Click to expand...

That's not a first grade sports festival where we don't count the goals and all get a little cup at the end of the day.
 
confuziz said:
pulga pls, you could only dream about writing more than 4 words in 1 post.
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ru20U41175.jpg
 
Honestly, too many 'neutrals' in the stadium damages the atmosphere.

Hopefully there will be less of them when the teams with small fanbases in Brazil start getting eliminated.

you can shove your 'it's their World Cup they should see as many games as they want' up your arse
 
Hammer24 said:
Sooo... you want URU to win today? :-P
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lol no

We'll take more fans out there when we get to the semis :P

One of the reasons I'd have likes a US/Australia/England World Cup, sounds a bit xenophobic but I think fans of teams who are there would be less reluctant to go to games held there than those in Brazil, as Brazil has a pretty dangerous reputation (fair or not)
 
The_Hitcher89 said:
I don't think it's a coincidence that tiki-taka has become less effective, offensively and defensively, since everyone has started adopting high intensity pressure at the front and in midfield, with disciplined defenders. Even teams who you don't think of as playing like that tend to have 3 or 4 players who close down effectively outside of the defense, and if they don't they lose control of games you expect them to dominate (Man Utd last season, us under Hodgson)

Look at Atletico in the CL final, as soon as their energy levels hit the brick wall in the 65th minute or so, it was one-way traffic and they were relying on Madrid making mistakes to see them through, as there seemed to be minutes at a time where Madrid were giving them the runaround.

The best way to fight tiki-taka is with energy, discipline and organisation, and neither Spain nor Barca have sufficiently added enough strings to the tiki-taka bow to deal with it when it hasn't quite worked against a good team. Against a Sevilla or someone they could get away with it as you can assume that eventually they'll leave a space to attack, or overcommit in midfield. But when they came to face Bayern (and when tiki-Bayern came to face Real) they fell apart in a tidal wave of pressing and defensive discipline, as have Spain this tournament.

The aspect of tiki-taka which is really stinking the place out is the sacrifice of chances for possession, with what seems to be an opinion that controlling possession is controlling the game. The fact of the matter is though that if one team has 40% possession and creates twice as many clear chances, they're probably going to win, and had a greater degree of control over the result.

Also, what we've seen this tournament is Spain almost trying to revert to the 2008 tactics of tiki-taka with attempts to attack properly. It clearly hasn't worked though, as they've made a complete mess of making use of said attacks, and the team is riddled with players whose primes are behind them, topped off with a striker who just doesn't fit in and ballsed up every shot he attempted anyway. So perhaps this is just a transitional tournament for Spain where they adjust their tactics for the upcoming generation who'll replace the 30+ year olds in the near future. I'm more inclined however to believe that Del Bosque just tried to fight fire with an electric blanket, and ended up with a triforce of disappointment, bad in attack, bad at retaining possession under pressure (false 9 would have helped), and terrible at keeping them out at the back. And let's be honest, it was tiki-taka and the players' suitability for it that was keeping the goals out at the back, not any great defensive ability of any 1 member of that back 5. Once teams figured out how to actually get at Spain, they've exposed Pique, Ramos and Casillas for what they are, good footballers, average defenders and a shaky goalkeeper.

In fact, I'd say Casillas is endemic of the tiki-taka persistence. In the team for no reason other than tradition at this point, even when it wasn;t working and they needed a proper plan B, rather than just slightly adjusting that which wasn't working. Lopez and De Gea are clearly, clearly better goalkeepers than him and have been for 2 years now. Del Bosque's idea of a plan B is to start passing more quickly, and making more long passes in the opposition half. That isn't enough when already losing and on the brink of such an embarassing exit.

Tiki-taka can still win plenty of tournaments, and excite fans when it doesn't become boringly safe, instead used to endlessly probe as Pep's Barca did in his first 2 or 3 seasons, and as Bayern apparently did last season in the Bundesliga, so no, it isn't dead. But it needs massive adjustments to become borderline unbeatable again, as top teams are finding it easy to overcome at the moment.
Click to expand...

This is really spot on, and much more eloquently summarizes my opinion on the squad and state of tikitaka. Spains run should be remembered as one of the most dominant displays of modern football, and we'll see how Spain responds with their upcoming youth...whether it will be a return to the same style of tikitaka or a new mutated version. I tend to think without xavi they'll have to adapt the playstyle to something a bit different. The man was truly fantastic. While I was never a huge fan of Spain, the Barcelona squad 08-11(?) was a true pleasure to watch.
 
I'm located in Japan and we will watch the match at the office tomorrow morning. Problem is, we don't have a TV or a OneSeg tuner there. So just computers and a internet connection. What are our options to watch the game online? Hope you guys can help me out here. I appreciate it, thanks!
 
Mailenstein said:
I'm located in Japan and we will watch the match at the office tomorrow morning. Problem is, we don't have a TV or a OneSeg tuner there. So just computers and a internet connection. What are our options to watch the game online? Hope you guys can help me out here. I appreciate it, thanks!
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Do you want it with English commentary or doesn't matter? Sport.tvp.pl is carrying free high-quality streams throughout the entire tournament, but obviously the commentary will be in Polish.
 
Ikuu said:
It's interesting how you can pirate stuff like this but download a game and you're getting a permaban.
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there use to be a thread about how to watch the nfl for free using a proxy server to watch from the dutch nfl website, but I think posting streaming websites is banned.
 
Aiii said:
Get a free one-week trial at http://unblock-us.com and watch it through the BBC iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo
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Thanks mate, I will give it a try!

Hammer24 said:
Try, if this is unblocked for you. Its always funnier in German!
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Well, I am German so I tried this already lol. Appreciate it tho, thanks!

CassSept said:
Do you want it with English commentary or doesn't matter? Sport.tvp.pl is carrying free high-quality streams throughout the entire tournament, but obviously the commentary will be in Polish.
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Well, japanese would be perfect, but it doesn't really matter tho. It just needs to work in Japan, that's pretty much it. Thank you!
 
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