Because you need time, people and money for this and the developers properly have a lot of more important aspects to work on.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
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What would be less pathetic - a Twitter campaign, Miiverse whining or a change.org petition?
OricWindstar
Member
Well, in their defense, they've never (to my knowledge) claimed alternate costumes are too much effort. It just doesn't seem to be a priority for the team. It's a shame, as true alternate costumes are a highlight for me, but Sakurai doesn't seem big on them outside of a few examples.
PadWarrior
Member
I'm still hoping for mario strikers alts. Hey I can dream right?
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Under the bullshit argument Wario is part of two series... the logic fits!
I think the lack of alternate models for most characters isn't due to it being too much effort, but rather a design choice, and I completely agree with it. It makes sense for certain characters that truly do need alternate models to fully represent their character, like Wario, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer, but for everyone else, alternate models aren't really needed, and sticking with different textures instead is more consistent, anyway. Besides, you've got to draw the line somewhere. If Link gets an altered model for his Skyward Sword outfit, it'll be expected that many other characters should have alternate models too, even multiple alternate models for a single character. It would get ridiculous, especially with the amount of characters and their potential for alternate designs in Smash Bros. Sticking with just texture recolors is much easier and more coherent. It looks better to me, anyway, than a mishmash of alternate models for every character.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I think the reasoning for Wario was that people liked his classic appearance. The strikers outfits aren't the current or past main versions of any of the Mario characters, so it doesn't work.
Are you implying that an SS model for Link isn't necessary to fully represent the character in a game where Skyward Sword is specifically represented?
I don't really care about alternate costumes unless A) it's necessary to fully represent a character (as with Wario or the "both genders" characters) or B) a way to include a second character (like Dr. Mario). Ms. Pac-Man for Pac-Man, "Marth" for Marth? I have a horse in that race. Different armors for Samus, outfits for Link, that sort of thing? I mean, sure, go for it, but I'm not going to be disappointed if they don't bother.
I'm not the sort of person who clamours for modders to 'fix' Smash Bros., but for additions like these, they may be our only hope.
That, or $9.99 day-1 DLC.
Haha... weird to see something I made posted here.
I'm going to respectfully disagree. I personally think that alts. would give the game more life and allows for the opportunity to show the history of the character. It's fun, and to exclude them as a "design choice" is kind of weak as an argument.
That said, I'm okay with there being no alts. either. I'm just not in the camp of thinking that they'd be a bad decision.
MrSaturn99
Member
Great job on that alt. Love the shoulders/MP-styled visor.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Hades isn't voiced by Cree Summers. He automatically loses so pffffft.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
People are forgetting the basic idea of great character design in a group of characters - that you must be able to distinguish each character by simply using silhouettes of them. TF2 does that well.
Why does it matter that Skyward Sword is represented? The difference here is that Link isn't a single character. There are many different Links, and two of those incarnations have been chosen to represent the character as playable characters: Twilight Princess's Link, and The Wind Waker's Toon Link. You don't need to represent ALL Links for the character to be a complete representation, because all those different Links aren't actively representing the same character at all times.
Wario, Wii Fit Trainer, and Villager are different, however. Wario is actively a part of two main franchises where he wears a different outfit in each. This isn't just a case of a secondary outfit from a one-off appearance like Link's Skyloft outfit, but rather his main outfits from both of his franchises.
And neither Wii Fit Trainer and Villager have a set gender, so to fully represent those characters, different models for different genders (and outfits in Villager's case, as the character has no set outfit, either) are required.
The Magic / Zora armour retains regular Link's silhouette nearly exactly, as do all of Samus' suits with the possible exception of the Fusion Suit. Even so, their stance, animations, general body structure and familiar items means that it'd be very difficult to mistake a hatless Link or smaller-shouldered Samus for anyone else.
A model change that alters hitboxes and/or hurtboxes breaks the character. This limits what they can do with alternate costumes.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I think the main problem is just that it's a really color. I doubt we'd see this many complains if TLink got a blue tunic with lobsters on the front. Some people would be upset, but I think a lot of people would be fine with it. Like not-quite shiny Greninja.
Choppasmith
Member
Probably not as fast as Neorice, but still pretty fast
And some other stuff recently posted on KYM for the hell of it
And some other stuff recently posted on KYM for the hell of it
I have no idea how people can come up with some relevant alts for every character. The characters that have alts have it for a very good reason.
How long are you in Link's normal clothes? 10-30 min at max. Is it that memorable for an alt? And then you have people asking for spin-off alts lol.
How long are you in Link's normal clothes? 10-30 min at max. Is it that memorable for an alt? And then you have people asking for spin-off alts lol.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
The hypothetical alternate costumes would be built off the original character's model and would use their animation rig, meaning that even though the model is cosmetically altered, all hitboxes would be identical. Putting a character in a different set of clothes would change their proportions far less than Villager and WFT's gendered alts, so hitbox dissonance shouldn't come into play at all.
Beelzebufo
Banned
That's why she's so tall and has Luma.Hmmm. And that's why Rosilina is getting the boots.
Begone Space Peach!
Hahaha, "Too big" in the bottom left.Probably not as fast as Neorice, but still pretty fast
And some other stuff recently posted on KYM for the hell of it
NeonZ
Member
What? Especially when you have Daisy and Peach side by side, Rosalina is obviously completely different in spite of wearing a dress too.
I never said or implied the contrary.
Why did it matter that Twilight Princess was represented in Brawl? Why didn't Sakurai just reuse the OoT model from Melee?
In case you missed the point, the issue I have isn't with the representation of all Links, it's an issue of consistency. There hasn't been a single Smash installment before the current one that didn't implement a full-fledged representation for a specific Zelda game, including characters and stages both. The fact that Skyward Sword is being represented without Skyward Sword characters is a bit jarring.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Come on, there is barely any difference. She is just missing the wide birthing hips is all.
PadWarrior
Member
Is the spin off alts referring to me asking for strikers alts? I know it won't happen but nothing wrong with having a wish list.
There is no difference in the proportions of the Villager alts.
NeonZ
Member
That's not hips, it's part of the dress. She also has the big loose sleeves. I really don't think anyone would ever mix up Peach's and Rosalina's silhouettes in their default outfits.
I didn't read many posts, and I didn't see yours. I was referring to things like Mr. L and scarfed Link.
You're right, nothing wrong with having a wishlist.
It is the meltdown that happens afterwards for having a wishlist like that is what is ridiculous. Not saying you had a meltdown or anything. Referring to other posts.
NeonZ
Member
Technically, their hair is wider and their dress also gives them a slightly bigger silhouette compared to the shirt. It should make no difference in the end gameplay-wise, but in a previous message you were talking like giving Link a different outfit would be a big enough change that would cause problems, and it really wouldn't be any worse than that.
PadWarrior
Member
Karsticles
Member
Master their footwear, since your face will be beneath it when the game is released.
I disagree with your link alt statement. Just because it's in the game for 10 minutes doesn't make it any less important or memorable. The only thing that matters is how much of an impact it has on player's memories. If it's memorable to a lot of players (like toon link's pajamas... disregarding the new game mode where he wears it the whole time), then it is a valid alternate costume.
There are also tons of games where the iconic outfit is only worn at the very beginning and quickly upgraded. In Zelda 1 you can upgrade out of the green suit in MINUTES if you know where to go. In most metroid games you never have the original suit by the end of the game, especially the prime games where they are radically different.
That said, all alternate models for characters so far make sense (little mac is just a transparent palette swap). The choices are based on decisions you make before even starting the game (male vs female wii fit trainer, boy vs girl villager) and Wario makes sense, too, since those are both his 'normal' incarnations depending on which of his two major franchises he's in.
Mario and Luigi are in the same outfit in 99% of their games. Dr. Mario/Luigi is only ONE spin-off vs roughly half of Wario's games having an alternate costume.
There are very few other characters who deserve alternate costumes following the established logic of the current ones. I could see maybe IKE having one since he's different in each of his 2 games (though not marth since marth has a ton of alternates). If ike's alternate changes his size, though, it wouldn't work. Most everyone else deserves a palette swap at best (Green haired ZSS please).
Sakurai is obviously using Twilight Princess Link again because it's the latest game to have designs for Link, Zelda, Sheik, and Ganondorf. I'm sure he wants to keep that consistency there. And who's to say we won't have a Twilight Princess stage, too? This wouldn't be the first Smash Bros. game to feature stages from different Zelda games, and we already have two in the 3DS version. I don't really understand your argument regarding that.
Karsticles
Member
I love the Days of Future past mock-up. Not a fan of seeing Nintendo characters smoking.
PadWarrior
Member
What if Pit got his Melee trophy design as an alt?
Green Mamba
Member
Incorrect--Melee's character designs were all taken from Ocarina of Time but there was no Ocarina of Time stage. Young Link even used his Ocarina of Time design despite one of the two Zelda stages being taken from Majora's Mask.
EDIT: SSB3DS has two Zelda stages, neither of them taken from Twilight Princess or The Wind Waker. This is hardly just a Skyward Sword only "problem."
I think the least pathetic option would be for someone from the media to say, "Were you aware fans are unhappy with Link's face?" during an interview. But THAT won't happen so...
Miiverse?
Some of Arc's games come to mind, with Blazblue selling alternate colors as DLC and P4A selling the glasses (ugh), but that's basically the extent of my fighting game experiences so that's good to know.
It has always been wrong, he is ugly, looks like Michael Jackson
Given that Sakurai has been known to approve of design tweaks specifically for a Smash game before, I don't see why the same can't be done in regards to iconic Zelda characters for Skyward Sword. Moreover, I would definitely argue that SS's representation was meant to be one of the highlights for this title in particular (especially considering that its stage was one of the first to be revealed). If you don't understand why it's a little bizarre not to include corresponding characters, we'll just have to settle on agreeing to disagree.
At this particular point in time, I doubt it, but I'll admit it's certainly a possibility.
PadWarrior
Member
Link looks fine to me.
P4A selling glasses was downright dirty. But it's such a shitty dlc I can't think of anyone who'd use them.
I would much prefer alts to palette swaps but at least this time around he's using more interesting colors. Come on Nintendo, in between amiibo and paid costume dlc smash bros. will take you to the bank, buy out all the storage boxes and fill them with large chunks of space gold. Which is trillions of dollars more valuable than earth gold.
I would much prefer alts to palette swaps but at least this time around he's using more interesting colors. Come on Nintendo, in between amiibo and paid costume dlc smash bros. will take you to the bank, buy out all the storage boxes and fill them with large chunks of space gold. Which is trillions of dollars more valuable than earth gold.
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