Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

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JB-the-Hunter said:
Yes we are.You said that Melee is an objectively better game, and all of the things I named are important elements in what makes Brawl the game that it is.


NO.

IT.

DOES.

NOT.
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No, I was saying Melee has objectively better gameplay, which it clearly does. There's no need to yell. I'd recommend you go back and read my previous posts, you obviously missed something.

Here's the post you quoted that started this whole thing lol:
Beelzebufo said:
I mean, come on man, Melee obviously plays better than Brawl.
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Crocodile said:
I'm sorry but when you effectively call people who disagree with you "shit-eaters" or post in such an obviously condescending manner you've crossed a line :/ This is like debate 101 of stuff you straight up don't do for fucks sake >_<

This thread is currently unreadable, I'm going to go try to get me some of that Shovel Knight.
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Tell me about it. You can't talk about anything here without people immediately disregarding your argument for no reason :/
 
Professor Beef said:
*sees the last couple pages*

...what the fuck is it with GAF and awful-as-shit analogies?
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I legitimately find it hilarious that in the 8 or so years I've browsed or posted on GAF, every time an analogy happens it turns into this rickshaw "did someone actually take time out of their lives to do this" tier post.

At the same time, I also figured out who were responsible for the ass backwards analogy section on the old SATs, so I guess that's one curiosity taken care of!.
 
Confession: Had Melee since launch but did not know you had to press and hold "B" to properly charge Jigglypuff's Rollout attack... 3 years later.
 
PadWarrior said:
Both will be assist trophies.
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tumblr_mauixfg8Pm1qg8fs0o1_1348476261_cover.png
 
Beelzebufo said:
I didn't just say that though, I gave reasons for why it is. And yes, movement options, attack options, different ways to play the game. I'm sorry I didn't make it abundantly clear. Does that really change anything?
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I guess my main point is that you can't just label something as better because it fits your criteria of what you want it to be. If you and I made a list of what we would want in a perfect Smash game, it wouldn't line up. But neither of us is more right than the other. Even though I wish Smash Bros. Brawl controlled more like Melee, the new characters and stages overpower that and I have more fun with Brawl. I find it to be the better game.

But you don't agree with that. And that's perfectly fine.

And I know there "no accounting for taste," but what does that even mean in this context? You can say it has better gameplay, but...what about someone who enjoys a more defense oriented Smash game. Wouldn't you say Brawl is better for that?
 
Beelzebufo said:
No, I was saying Melee has objectively better gameplay, which it clearly does.
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Your logic is so screwed up it makes my head hurt. I'm a sucker for a good debate, but not when I'm arguing with someone who doesn't even know how to do it properly.

I don't care whether or not you THINK Melee has better gameplay, it's your opinion that you do, but please take a course in logic before you ever argue with someone. Pretty please?
 
Can someone briefly summarize what has happened on SmashGAF for the past ~10 days? I hope I didn't miss any vital size discussions.
 
You see guys, Sakurai is like a robot, whereas his cat is like the duck hunt dog. This is because both eat plastic cheese pound cucumber chocolate cakes with nasty tea leaves and biscuits at the bottom
 
OricWindstar said:
you can't just label something as better because it fits your criteria of what you want it to be.
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Yes

OricWindstar said:
If you and I made a list of what we would want in a perfect Smash game, it wouldn't line up. But neither of us is more right than the other.
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Right

OricWindstar said:
Even though I wish Smash Bros. Brawl controlled more like Melee, the new characters and stages overpower that and I have more fun with Brawl. I find it to be the better game. But you don't agree with that. And that's perfectly fine.
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Correct
 
OricWindstar said:
I guess my main point is that you can't just label something as better because it fits your criteria of what you want it to be. If you and I made a list of what we would want in a perfect Smash game, it wouldn't line up. But neither of us is more right than the other. Even though I wish Smash Bros. Brawl controlled more like Melee, the new characters and stages overpower that and I have more fun with Brawl. I find it to be the better game.

But you don't agree with that. And that's perfectly fine.

And I know there "no accounting for taste," but what does that even mean in this context? You can say it has better gameplay, but...what about someone who enjoys a more defense oriented Smash game. Wouldn't you say Brawl is better for that?
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"No accounting for taste" means that some people will prefer Brawl's gameplay even though it's objectively worse than Melee's.

If we can't say that giving the player more options during gameplay makes Melee's gameplay objectively better than Brawl's, we can't say anything at all.

JB-the-Hunter said:
Your logic is so screwed up it makes my head hurt. I'm a sucker for a good debate, but not when I'm arguing with someone who doesn't even know how to do it properly.

I don't care whether or not you THINK Melee has better gameplay, it's your opinion that you do, but please take a course in logic before you ever argue with someone. Pretty please?
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I have been. In ever single post. All you've been doing is disregarding everything I've been saying and telling me I'm stating opinions when I'm stating facts. Everything in this post I quoted describes what I'm trying to deal with now. If you're going to keep participating in this conversation, you're going to have to give me something to respond to. Right now, you're just saying "You're wrong" and nothing else. And I'm not even wrong!
 
Holy shit what's with all the cake analogies lol.

Let's just put it this way: different folks have different strokes. Personally, I love both for what they are. Granted, I don't play tourneys and such, but fighting games when played beautifully becomes exciting to watch.

For the sake of analogy, let's just say that Melee is Marvel vs Capcom, relying on speed and quick hits, while Brawl is Street Fighter 4, a more grounded approach and a bit more strategic.
 
Don't care about the whole Melee vs. Brawl debate.

Both are great games in their own ways. But I put away my Gamecube, and my Wii, and I'm more excited to buy and play Smash 4.
 
Beelzebufo said:
No, I was saying Melee has objectively better gameplay, which it clearly does. There's no need to yell. I'd recommend you go back and read my previous posts, you obviously missed something.

Here's the post you quoted that started this whole thing lol:



Tell me about it. You can't talk about anything here without people immediately disregarding your argument for no reason :/
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How do you define better gameplay?
Doesn't better = a point of comparison where one thing is more good and the other less?
So how the hell is that not an opinion you're stating

Back to the crappy cake argument, you're saying chocolate cake is worse than cheescake even if someone prefers chocolate
 
Beelzebufo said:
"No accounting for taste" means that some people will prefer Brawl's gameplay even though it's objectively worse than Melee's.

If we can't say that giving the player more options during gameplay makes Melee's gameplay objectively better than Brawl's, we can't say anything at all.
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Brawl has a roster of 39 characters with minimal clones (arguably none) while Melee has a roster of 25 characters with numerous clones.

Those extra characters offer more options during gameplay. More moves, more properties, more strategies, more possibilities.

Brawl is objectively better.

Lagasse_Photo.jpg
 
Hyperactivity said:
How do you define better gameplay?
Doesn't better = a point of comparison where one thing is more good and the other less?
So how the hell is that not an opinion you're stating

Back to the crappy cake argument, you're saying chocolate cake is worse than cheescake even if someone prefers chocolate
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More options in gameplay. More ways to play, the ability to do more things with your character.

Hyperactivity said:
You see guys, Sakurai is like a robot, whereas his cat is like the duck hunt dog. This is because both eat plastic cheese pound cucumber chocolate cakes with nasty tea leaves and biscuits at the bottom
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I'd can't imagine even Robo-Sakurai would eat plastic lol
 
Neiteio said:
Brawl has a roster of 39 characters with minimal clones (arguably none) while Melee has a roster of 25 characters with numerous clones.
Those extra characters offer more options during gameplay. More moves, more properties, more strategies, more possibilities.
Brawl is objectively better.
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I guess you could make that argument if you really wanted to, but they're not really the same thing, especially since only the best characters are regularly used, and Brawl has worse balance than Melee. Of course, that's why I'd argue Project M in better than all of them gameplay-wise.
 
Beelzebufo said:
More options in gameplay. More ways to play, the ability to do more things with your character.
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Neiteio already covered this above

Beelzebufo said:
I guess you could make that argument if you really wanted to, but they're not really the same thing, especially since only the best characters are regularly used, and Brawl has worse balance than Melee. Of course, that's why I'd argue Project M in better than all of them gameplay-wise.
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So how do you categorize Pokemon's gameplay

Top 10% are lucky to get usage in OU
What gen is better. Technically gen 6 should have the most, but spme consider gen 4 UU to have the best balance and be one of the greatest tiers of all time. Different metagames in different gens and tiers
 
Beelzebufo said:
I guess you could make that argument if you really wanted to, but they're not really the same thing, especially since only the best characters are regularly used, and Brawl has worse balance than Melee. Of course, that's why I'd argue Project M in better than all of them gameplay-wise.
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Sorry, that's a subjective stance, and by sheer variety and volume of content and options I have objectively proven Brawl to be better.

emeril.jpg
 
DICKS AHOY said:
Forced cake-analogies and debate over what the word 'objective' means.

so no you didn't miss anything remotely substantial
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Just like usual.
Beelzebufo said:
More options in gameplay. More ways to play, the ability to do more things with your character.


I'd can't imagine even Robo-Sakurai would eat plastic lol
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I thought Brawl was more fun then Melee. I guess I was wrong.
 
Beelzebufo said:
"No accounting for taste" means that some people will prefer Brawl's gameplay even though it's objectively worse than Melee's.

If we can't say that giving the player more options during gameplay makes Melee's gameplay objectively better than Brawl's, we can't say anything at all.
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Seriously though.

What are you even saying.

If you can "account for taste," then that makes it subjective. If people can prefer it one way or another, then that makes it subjective.

"____ is better than ____" is not a fact. It is not objective, no matter how much evidence you might provide. It is a subjective opinion. Something cannot be objectively better than another thing. That is impossible.
 
Neiteio said:
Sorry, that's a subjective stance, and by sheer variety and volume of content I have objectively proven Brawl to be better.
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It's not though. The best characters are objectively played more often than the subjective ones. And additional characters aren't part of the core gameplay, they fit into the same category is stages (additional content). The core gameplay is based on the engine.
 
Beelzebufo said:
"No accounting for taste" means that some people will prefer Brawl's gameplay even though it's objectively worse than Melee's.

If we can't say that giving the player more options during gameplay makes Melee's gameplay objectively better than Brawl's, we can't say anything at all.
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While I agree with you that more options is a good thing, you could totally make the argument that less options is a better thing and not be objectively wrong in your opinion.

So...I guess we can't say anything at all, then.
 
Mr. Macintosh!! said:
Just like usual.

I thought Brawl was more fun then Melee. I guess I was wrong.
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Wreck-It Ralph said:
Seriously though.

What are you even saying.

If you can "account for taste," then that makes it subjective. If people can prefer it one way or another, then that makes it subjective.

"____ is better than ____" is not a fact. It is not objective, no matter how much evidence you might provide. It is a subjective opinion. Something cannot be objectively better than another thing. That is impossible.
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You guys aren't even trying to understand. I provided plenty of facts that show that Melee's gameplay is objectively better than Brawl's. There nothing subjective about it.

OricWindstar said:
While I agree with you that more options is a good thing, you could totally make the argument that less options is a better thing and not be objectively wrong in your opinion.

So...I guess we can't say anything at all, then.
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Like I said, there's no accounting for taste.
 
Beelzebufo said:
If we can't say that giving the player more options during gameplay makes Melee's gameplay objectively better than Brawl's, we can't say anything at all.
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Oh my God, make it stop. My mind is short circuiting from the nonsense.

McDonalds gives me more options than several of my local burger joints, but does that not make it objectively better and you know it. However, the local joints are not objectively better either.
 
Beelzebufo said:
It's not though. The best characters are objectively played more often than the subjective ones. And additional characters aren't part of the core gameplay, they fit into the same category is stages (additional content). The core gameplay is based on the engine.
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And about the Pokemon comparison?
Can you answer that?

What has the better gameplay, Mario or Donkey Kong
And if we're talking about options, wouldn't MOBAs and RTSs objectively have the best gameplay
 
JB-the-Hunter said:
Oh my God, make it stop. My mind is short circuiting from the nonsense.

McDonalds gives me more options than several of my local burger joints, but does that not make it objectively better and you know it. However, the local joints are not objectively better either.
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You're still doing it :(

The McDonalds analogy is also off. In that case, the gameplay is comparable to the taste of the burger, while the additional menu options would be the same as the increased number of stages/modes/characters Brawl offers. So you're agreeing with me.

Hyperactivity said:
And about the Pokemon comparison?
Can you answer that?

What has the better gameplay, Mario or Donkey Kong
And if we're talking about options, wouldn't MOBAs and RTSs objectively have the best gameplay
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What Pokemon comparison? And both Brawl and Melee are two games in the same series that immediately follow one another, are made by the same person, and even use the same controller. It's a fair comparison.

Please don't make me repeat myself again :(
 
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