foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Will post again.
luigi no!!!
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 9: F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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luigi no!!!
I'm pretty sure you were just saying that the possibility of someone enjoying Brawl more then Melee is literally impossible.
Ahhh, I seeWill post again.
That's really cool. I'm guessing Nabbit is suicidal and will take Weegee with him!
I'd still like to see the Koopalings fly in on the Koopa Clown Car, but with Nabbit and Kamek, probably too much going on
Benzychenz
Member
The way you interpret it =/= the only way it can be interpreted
It's not that hard to understand.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Then you must have missed something lol, I've said the exact opposite several times. I swear you guys only make it halfway through my posts before responding.
What you're saying is that if I was talking about apples, and in your mind we were actually talking about oranges, then we were actually talking about both all along. That's not what happened.
JB-the-Hunter
Member
That's right, you're catching on!
... and you let me down.
I'm not talking about a single burger from each restaurant, I'm talking about the overall quality of the restaurant. Similarly, Gameplay is not just ONE thing. Gameplay is the combination of all aspects of gameplay. I didn't even mention stages/modes/characters, you assumed that's what I meant. Let me give you a deeper analogy:
Even though my local burger joint (Brawl) only has a few burgers to choose from (less gameplay options) one of the burgers is absolutely delicious (Brawl's gameplay overall) and one delicious burger is all I need.
At McDonalds (Melee), there are a lot of things to choose from (more gameplay options) but none of the food is desirable (Melee's gameplay overall).
So, to sum it up with all the options Melee gives me, if I don't like the base gameplay, then I just have a bunch of options for gameplay that I don't even like to begin with. When did gameplay and gameplay options have the same meaning?
Keep in mind that my analogies are just analogies. I don't think Melee's gameplay is undesirable. It 's for the sake of argument.
SenorArdilla
Member
Will post again.
Interesting stage hazard. Will Nabbit drag people off-screen like the Fish?
Beelzebufo
Banned
We were only talking about the base gameplay though. Not the additional features tacked on. We've already covered this.
You also completely missed the point of my post, because you went right back to making the incorrect comparison. I don't think I could possibly be any clearer. It seems you're making a habit of misunderstanding things.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Now I want a burger
Ha! Of course you know it's not the bag he's staring at.
Hyperactivity
Banned
And the talk about options doesn't even fully apply either
Let's look at Infernape's moveset. There's powerful Fire STAB, Close Combat and Focus Blast, thnderpunch, stone edge, earthquake, priority in mach punch, stealth rocks, etc.
In previous gens, you never had movesets so insane. For example, in gen 3, Heracross for the most part had Megahorn and Brick Break and Rock Slide. A skarmory would love to come ina nd start setting up entry hazards on that cross
But that was why team synergy arguably mattered MORE. Relying on your Magneton to get the job done created a reliance on teamwork and proper switching
Gen 3 onwards, there's been an effect where many pokemon just gradually gain wider and wider movepools, which should mean more options, right? But many could easily argue that that leads to a more broken overall metagame, and more offensively based. You can make a case that gen 3 had the best standard singles tier easily. Less options, better metagame?
On your other point of only the top characters being used, go on and use your in game team to competitively battle. I'm sure you'll get far
And as for another flaw in your options argument, let's look at Singles vs doubles
In doubles, strategies and moves such as Trick Room are much more viable
In singles, moves such as Volt Switch, Substitute, U-Turn, and switching in general are more viable too
Are there not specific strategies that aren't possible in MElee, like DACUS iirc,
Isn't that more options
Would try to get more into detail on the pokemon analogy, but it's already a little confusing if you're not aware of various pokemon metagames
Let's look at Infernape's moveset. There's powerful Fire STAB, Close Combat and Focus Blast, thnderpunch, stone edge, earthquake, priority in mach punch, stealth rocks, etc.
In previous gens, you never had movesets so insane. For example, in gen 3, Heracross for the most part had Megahorn and Brick Break and Rock Slide. A skarmory would love to come ina nd start setting up entry hazards on that cross
But that was why team synergy arguably mattered MORE. Relying on your Magneton to get the job done created a reliance on teamwork and proper switching
Gen 3 onwards, there's been an effect where many pokemon just gradually gain wider and wider movepools, which should mean more options, right? But many could easily argue that that leads to a more broken overall metagame, and more offensively based. You can make a case that gen 3 had the best standard singles tier easily. Less options, better metagame?
On your other point of only the top characters being used, go on and use your in game team to competitively battle. I'm sure you'll get far
And as for another flaw in your options argument, let's look at Singles vs doubles
In doubles, strategies and moves such as Trick Room are much more viable
In singles, moves such as Volt Switch, Substitute, U-Turn, and switching in general are more viable too
Are there not specific strategies that aren't possible in MElee, like DACUS iirc,
Isn't that more options
Would try to get more into detail on the pokemon analogy, but it's already a little confusing if you're not aware of various pokemon metagames
JediLink
Member
It was worth it. The last couple of pages were hilarious.
now I'm hungry.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Pokemon and Smash aren't the same thing.
You could have just said that Melee's combat allows for a more technical and balanced game then Brawl. I don't think people would have argued with that.
Benzychenz
Member
No, it's like if you were talking about apples, and in your mind you were imagining a red apple, and then I start talking about a green apple.
They're both apples, and they're both valid.
Beelzebufo
Banned
If you're including things like different stages, then they're not the same thing. I wish there was a way to help you understand, I'm doing all that I can.
Apparently not, because that's just a different way of saying the same thing.
Professor Beef
Banned
Don't look at me
Brainfreeze
Member
Beelzebufo
Banned
You can't say something is "objectively" funniest. Humor is completely subjective.
Munchlax ate items (I'm pretty sure). Besides, Munchlax sucks. It's not fun to get a Pokeball that literally benefits no one.
The feud between their competitive and casual fan-bases are pretty much identical
Benzychenz
Member
Alright I give up.
Nabbit is interesting though. Mushroom Kingdom U BANNED though
Nabbit is interesting though. Mushroom Kingdom U BANNED though
Brainfreeze
Member
Sorry, I know it can be annoying when someone misuses the word like that.
Beelzebufo
Banned
It's cool, a lot of people in this thread seem to be confused about what makes something subjective as well, so it's understandable
Maybe people prefer Brawl's gameplay because it is simpler and is not as twitchy and unforgiving. To them, Brawl would have better gameplay then Melee. That's the simple concept that everyone has been arguing all along.
JB-the-Hunter
Member
It's like you didn't even read my post.
I did not miss the point of your post. You keep saying that, but it's not true. You're missing the point of my posts and I hope you're doing it purposefully in order to troll me because otherwise I'm concerned for your ability to comprehend.
Like I said previously, I love a good debate... but this is not a good debate and it's getting on my nerves. I keep responding to your posts and it's a waste of my time. So nothing personal, but I'm gonna put you on ignore. Not because I think you're a bad dude, but because I don't want to keep arguing with you and as long as I can see a response from you I can't resist arguing.
Alright I give up.
Nabbit is interesting though. Mushroom Kingdom U BANNED though
There will probably be an option to turn off stage and boss hazards.
So competitive players will never have to see Ridley's ugly face.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
It's cool, a lot of people in this thread seem to be confused about what makes something subjective as well, so it's understandable
Beelzebufo
Banned
If you didn't miss my post, then you unfortunately missed my point. And you still haven't pointed out anything legitimately wrong with I said (because I've only been using facts). You've been doing nothing but throwing insults around, you have a lot to learn of you think that's a way to properly carry out an argument.
Anyway, I'm done here. I'm really disappointed about how hostile some of the members on this board can be.
Hyperactivity
Banned
How do you define better gameplay then. Tell us. It should apply to most games, right? Or is it around what you're looking for in a game, maybe smash. If you're looking for more options so as to define better gameplay, then I already gave you an example where that wasn't necessarily true. Brawl has less options, but is more positioning based, iirc. And if someone is looking for more of that gameplay, then so what
Gen 2 pokemon is infamous for regularly going past 100 or even 200 turns. It makes Brawl look like Melee x10. But the metagame is fantastic for its emphasis on playing slowly, concealing your pokmon well, residual damage, and slowly mini-battle after mini-battle. Like I said, more of a war than a battle. And there is still the same problem when compared to gen 4 and 5 on movepool options. But gen 2 can also be argued to be one of the best, if not even the best standard tier for its focus on these things, whereas as you would probably argue gen 4-6, due to your preference on a focus on options
So could you not somewhat adapt and put arguments for gen 2 and 3 as being the best onto Brawl. Brawl focuses on positioning and one or two hits max.
The reason for the death of brawl isn't necessarily the gameplay as much as it REALLY is the fact that it isn't much of a spectator e-sport. Most people don't like watching gen 2 pokemon or high level chess. I understand it, it's given that most want action happening on the screen. Doesn't mean gen 2 pokemon is necessarily worse than gen 5, that was the most offensive singles OU tier ever, and many people HATE it or dislike it greatly
Oh the irony
I can't even do this anymore, not after that post
"No accounting for taste", implying some of us having a shitty taste for having a different opinion
Ok
Beelzebufo
Banned
Once again, tell me how the things I said were facts weren't facts. Come on now.
SenorArdilla
Member
Dag-nabbit!
Uh huh.
This thing is better then this other thing.
That's like the definition of an opinion, dude.
Beelzebufo
Banned
That's not what I was talking about.
Then I have no idea what you were talking about, and I'm not sure anyone else does.
You were. You did state facts, but then you also said the gameplay of one is better than the other due to those facts. Tripping doesn't make Brawl's gameplay overall worse, nor does Melee's options make it better to EVERYONE out there.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I've brought it up like five times now. At this point I can't keep repeating myself.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Claimed Melee objectively had better gameplay
Claims he wasn't claiming anything as fact
Objective- (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
Complains about people being hostile
Implies people have a shitty taste for disagreeing about "Fact"
"No accounting for taste "
Did i ever tell you the definition of "Insanity"?
Beelzebufo
Banned
You were the only one who ever implied that last part. "No accounting for taste" just means that some people have strange preferences. Everyone once in a while, you get a guy who likes to eat plastic.
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