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[Jintor]

If you see being vile morons as understandable sure.

But mostly not justificable in the end.

if people spit game at you you spit game back and it takes a lot of personal restraint to not lash out. Someone calls you a fuckwit your first impulse is to call them a fuckwit right back. And it only takes one slip-up once and then everyone says 'oh well you responded in this way so your opinion is discredited forever'

what a great situation

 

[Mister Negative]

It's like that video on Phil Fish. These people aren't celebrities. They're normal people who suddenly get an audience.

What do you expect normal people do when a bunch of fuckwits on the internet start spewing hate at them?

 

[obonicus]

If they had just suddenly and randomly added a couple new people rather than making an event out of it, the gender/race issues probably would have been ignored as well. Instead they turned it into American Idol or Doctor Who, and put themselves in a situation where whoever they hired was going to be very heavily scrutinized.

People turned into American Idol or Doctor Who, if that even happened. They talked about opening job positions and posted the link to their HR database. People then had expectations that IMO weren't entirely reasonable, and when they weren't met expressed a great deal of disappointment. Then internet tribalism took over.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Jeff's going on GameOverGreggy tonight. Wonder what he'll talk about?

Is this a live show like scoops and the wolf?

 

[MiniBossBattle]

WWVCD?

 

[Lysandus]

Can someone sum up what the hell is going on for me? Thanks.

 

[BUNTING1243]

people in gaf told me you can have an opinion but not every opinion is a good one.

i just find it peculiar that Giant Bomb is getting flack by how idiots they have no power over responded to a female poster.

and how said female poster is a self-proclaimed misandrist.

and how some people in gaf say "but its ok, her bad experiences justifies her misandry" and that it shouldn't excuse all the criticism she is getting.

when white males in the industry have been lambasted for much smaller things by the same people defending her misandry,

I don't know what you're getting at here. Like legitimately

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Can someone sum up what the hell is going on for me? Thanks.

Paul Rykert is joining Giantbomb.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

if people spit game at you you spit game back and it takes a lot of personal restraint to not lash out. Someone calls you a fuckwit your first impulse is to call them a fuckwit right back.

Oh, I know, believe me... A lot of bad experiences...

And it only takes one slip-up once and then everyone says 'oh well you responded in this way so your opinion is discredited forever'

what a great situation

Well, if she has a new opinion and stance about it, I will glad to hear it.

 

[milkham]

Can someone sum up what the hell is going on for me? Thanks.

giantbomb hired two dudes, they got called out on a podcast for hiring "two white guys" instead of anyone else. the internet.

 

[Dragon Puncher]

I probably spent ~ 2 hours today reading twitter and forums. It didn't raise my awareness for diversity or change my opinion on how to deal with it. Reading just made me sad and hopeless. So for now, I should finally focus back on watching soccer. And deal with diversity issues in a small scale myself, instead of in a global "discussion" where the insults and rash outcries of a few dominate and marginalize the valid points of both sides.

Quoting this because it's so god damn true. The hate, vitriol and and unrational responses on both sides on the fence here is completely ruining any decent discussion on the subject. Unfortunately this is prime example of how the internet lets the most outrages opinions rise to the top instead of letting them die out at bottom, like they should.

In truth, I imagine most people would actually welcome more diversity in the gaming press. But weighing a persons race or gender higher than their skill is a slippery slope in any profession and I feel like the hateful messages often come in responds to statements like that and not the idea that we need more diversity in video game journalism.

In general, I think people should take a step back and look at how far the gaming community have come in just the last 5 years, in regards to having more female journalists and having a discussion about the portrayal of women in video games. There's still a long way to go, but things are moving in the right direction and most people I talk to or hear about aren't being idiots about it.
Once again it's the vocal minority ruining it for the rest.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I'm really looking forward to seeing that quick look tomorrow, Jeff and Dan sound like they could have a lot of synergy. I have a weird feeling that Dan and Drew could make a weirdly great combo as well.

 

[Myggen]

giantbomb hired two dudes, they got called out on a podcast for hiring "two white guys" instead of anyone else. the internet.

...and the vile parts of the GB community responded back. Eventually the whole issue blew up on Reddit and 4chan with those communities flooding the entire conversation with death threats. A clusterfuck in other words.

 

[aeolist]

Idle Thumbs benefits a lot from having Danielle Riendeau on semi-regularly.

Ryan's spin on Thumbs was championship. Thanks, Ryan.

danielle is fantastic, i love the weird animal platformers she always manages to find

 

[PsychoSoldier]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I've always wondered how anyone who hires can balance their knowledge of the intrinsic advantages that some people have versus their own instincts of who might be right for the job.

I get that systemic issues get in the way of properly evaluating people sometimes but as someone who is under the gun to hire someone who does the job well how do you balance your need to believe you're hiring the right person versus your desire to attempt to take into account the uneven playing field.

It just seems impossible. It feels like it becomes easy to slide into tokenism on one hand and simply sliding into hiring someone who is like you on the other.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

I'm really looking forward to seeing that quick look tomorrow, Jeff and Dan sound like they could have a lot of synergy. I have a weird feeling that Dan and Drew could make a weirdly great combo as well.

I think dan and Brad will be an interesting combo

 

[AuthenticM]

I probably spent ~ 2 hours today reading twitter and forums. It didn't raise my awareness for diversity or change my opinion on how to deal with it. Reading just made me sad and hopeless. So for now, I should finally focus back on watching soccer. And deal with diversity issues in a small scale myself, instead of in a global "discussion" where the insults and rash outcries of a few dominate and marginalize the valid points of both sides.

Absolutely.

 

[eznark]

If no women wanted to work at Giant Bomb why is Leigh mad?

 

[WrenchNinja]

eh....

I would assume most people apply to things that they have an actual chance at getting based off a listing. That's what requirements are for, right? So you can check if you meet them? Some people can skate by missing one or two of them. Of course under qualified people do apply, but theyre usually weeded out.

 

[komplanen]

If no women wanted to work at Giant Bomb why is Leigh mad?

For GB and the likes existing in the first place.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

If no women wanted to work at Giant Bomb why is Leigh mad?

[citation needed]

 

[aeolist]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I've always wondered how anyone who hires can balance their knowledge of the intrinsic advantages that some people have versus their own instincts of who might be right for the job.

I get that systemic issues get in the way of properly evaluating people sometimes but as someone who is under the gun to hire someone who does the job well how do you balance your need to believe you're hiring the right person versus your desire to attempt to take into account the uneven playing field.

It just seems impossible. It feels like it becomes easy to slide into tokenism on one hand and simply sliding into hiring someone who is like you on the other.

a big part of it isn't even the final decision, it's making sure you actually get a diverse set of applicants in the first place. for something as specialized as giantbomb it's probably an even bigger deal since so many game journalists are white dudes to begin with.

you have to make an effort to reach out to women and other minorities to let them know that their applications are not only welcome but actively wanted. you have to communicate that your workplace will be a safe and healthy place for them to spend their working life. you have to be aware of the issues they might face and be upfront about your solutions, for example instituting a no tolerance policy towards abuse from the community.

 

[Zaph]

Maybe it's naivety, but the weirdest part of all this was realising just how quickly people in the video game journalism industry flip flop between being friendly and at each other's throats. They really put it all out there in a way that I don't think any other industry does.

I don't expect people to be silent about a very serious institutional problem that needs to be fixed, but you literally have someone re-tweeting messages saying someone else's work is 'shit' and offering lists of alternative podcasts that aren't 'gross'. After having hung out with that person only a few days earlier.

Obviously different industries have different standards, but there are so many people in this one I would never dream of hiring after seeing their twitter feed. Even people I like.

[citation needed]

It's a re-hash of one of Leigh's tweets where she wondered why any woman would even apply to work at Giant Bomb. Then went on to explain what happened to her over several tweets.

 

[border]

People turned into American Idol or Doctor Who, if that even happened. They talked about opening job positions and posted the link to their HR database. People then had expectations that IMO weren't entirely reasonable, and when they weren't met expressed a great deal of disappointment. Then internet tribalism took over.

Maybe it's just a result of their heavily engaged fan base, but these hires felt like way more of an "event" than any other videogame website's hires. I imagine there's even a NeoGAF thread devoted to speculating on who they might add.

Some of this is probably beyond their control, but it certainly doesn't help that they were discussing new positions on their podcasts and in their forums.

 

[eznark]

[citation needed]

edit: upon further review Is she surprised that women wanted to work there, or that anyone thought women wanted to work there? I can't tell!?

 

[Yaboosh]

Redundant.

 

[FStop7]

I probably spent ~ 2 hours today reading twitter and forums. It didn't raise my awareness for diversity or change my opinion on how to deal with it. Reading just made me sad and hopeless. So for now, I should finally focus back on watching soccer. And deal with diversity issues in a small scale myself, instead of in a global "discussion" where the insults and rash outcries of a few dominate and marginalize the valid points of both sides.

Pretty much how I feel, except I don't feel sad and hopeless at all. I feel over it: video games and their "accouterments" (the extremists), Twitter warzzz, even Giant Bomb, a bit. There's so much else to enjoy.

 

[EdReedFan20]

Is this a live show like scoops and the wolf?

No. It's a video podcast on Greg's GameOverGreggy YouTube channel (not IGN affiliated) where 4 people bring their own topics, rants, etc. to discuss. Usually the topics are very odd and unique. The show is released for a $1 on Fridays (on Bandcamp, I think), but is released for free the following week, with each topic split and released throughout the week (usually Mon-Thurs). The past few weeks they've been having episode 1 on Sundays, though. Usually there are four commentators (Greg Miller, Colin Moriarty, Nick Scarpino and Tim Gettys) and four episodes. Obviously that changes when there is a 5th commentator. To give you an idea about the craziness of the topics, this was today's: "What would you do if you found out your girlfriend was a pornstar?"

 

[EmCeeGramr]

So, women did want to work at Giant Bomb.


At least, I'm reading this as her being surprised that women wanted to work there.

 

[forgeforsaken]

[citation needed]

He's referencing a now deleted Tweet by Leigh screen capped a page or so back.

 

[eznark]

So, women did want to work at Giant Bomb.

I read it as her being surprised that people thought women wanted to work there.

 

[Yaboosh]

So, women did want to work at Giant Bomb.


At least, I'm reading this as her being surprised that women wanted to work there.

Depends on how you read it, it could go either way.

"i am a little surprised people thought women wanted to work there" vs "I am a little surprised women wanted to work there".

Too vague to say what was meant.

 

[TharpDaddy]

In all the commotion no one posted the wonderful picture Danny tweeted

 

[Mister Negative]

So, women did want to work at Giant Bomb.


At least, I'm reading this as her being surprised that women wanted to work there.

I think I read it more as "I'm surprised people thought women would want to work there"

 

[dimb]

Depends on how you read it, it could go either way.

"i am a little surprised people thought women wanted to work there" vs "I am a little surprised women wanted to work there".

Too vague to say what was meant.

Basic reading comprehension yields that Leigh Alexander is surprised that women would want to work at Giant Bomb. Also, context.

 

[erawsd]

I've never envied how they have to deal with the community, because clearly they're not happy with them anymore. They like the a lot of them, but after E3, there was definitely a sense of "Man, fuck the Giant Bomb community" from them, which I assume had to do with the fact that there were women during the E3 discussions and the community's gonna do what it does.

But they can't cut the community out or really come down on them hard because that's where the money comes from.

I haven't gotten that impression but I would hope that the crew is better than that.

Every community has some population of vile, hateful, and irrational people. Giantbomb has them, NeoGAF has them, Republicans, Democrats, NAACP, LGBT, Christians, Atheist -- so on and so forth until we've named every large population in existence. Unfortunately, those voices often carry these discussion because we choose to empower them.

During the E3 chat there were maybe a couple dozen people out of thousands that were saying things about guests -- why does the 30 people reflect on the community and not the thousands? Its the same thing that is happening today. Even though the last 15 pages of this thread prove that there are a ton of GB community members on both sides of this... a handful of fucked up people on twitter becomes the voice of us all.

 

[Yaboosh]

Basic reading comprehension yields that Leigh Alexander is surprised that women would want to work at Giant Bomb.

Given overall context you are probably right.

 

[eznark]

Basic reading comprehension yields that Leigh Alexander is surprised that women would want to work at Giant Bomb. Also, context.

clearly

 

[TheShampion]

I can't help but think this is somehow related to that gap between listening to the same 4-5 people for 2-3 hours a week, and the people actually listening. Over the years, I find myself getting angry, irrationally so, because of some of the things the GB people say. The fact of the matter is, I care more about them than they will ever really care about me, and something about that really irks me. If a friend of mine talked about something I disagreed with, I could have a conversation and reach an understanding. I don't really feel like I can do that at all, mostly because I don't think I could shorten my feelings in a format like twitter to say what I want to say. So in the end of the day, it is this one sided relationship that I have no real power, so I can understand people lashing out, even if I think this hiring thing is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I dunno, GB has been losing me lately because they just don't give a shit (and shit on) all the video games I am interested in. It is still fun to listen to just to get an idea of games I'll probably never play, but it isn't what it used to be for me.

 

[DangerStepp]

Leigh Alexander is the figurative "lawyer chasing an ambulance" whenever it comes to this brand of controversy.

 

[APF]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I've always wondered how anyone who hires can balance their knowledge of the intrinsic advantages that some people have versus their own instincts of who might be right for the job.

I get that systemic issues get in the way of properly evaluating people sometimes but as someone who is under the gun to hire someone who does the job well how do you balance your need to believe you're hiring the right person versus your desire to attempt to take into account the uneven playing field.

It just seems impossible. It feels like it becomes easy to slide into tokenism on one hand and simply sliding into hiring someone who is like you on the other.

We try to do it at my company by being proactive at reaching out to eg female engineers &c, hosting meetups/events focused on diversifying the tech industry and similar initiatives, as well as making sure there is a representative diversity within the interview process (the people speaking to candidates). One of the big problems is just making sure you broaden the pool of potential candidates, especially in tech where there's a large demand for good talent.

 

[eznark]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I've always wondered how anyone who hires can balance their knowledge of the intrinsic advantages that some people have versus their own instincts of who might be right for the job.

I get that systemic issues get in the way of properly evaluating people sometimes but as someone who is under the gun to hire someone who does the job well how do you balance your need to believe you're hiring the right person versus your desire to attempt to take into account the uneven playing field.

It just seems impossible. It feels like it becomes easy to slide into tokenism on one hand and simply sliding into hiring someone who is like you on the other.

resume > phone > phone > in person

I hire skills. I want to know as little about the person as possible for as long as possible.

 

[Mister Negative]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

 

[aeolist]

I haven't gotten that impression but I would hope that the crew is better than that.

Every community has some population of vile, hateful, and irrational people. Giantbomb has them, NeoGAF has them, Republicans, Democrats, NAACP, LGBT, Christians, Atheist -- so on and so forth until we've named every large population in existence. Unfortunately, those voices often carry these discussion because we choose to empower them.

During the E3 chat there were maybe a couple dozen people out of thousands that were saying things about guests -- why does the 30 people reflect on the community and not the thousands? Its the same thing that is happening today. Even though the last 15 pages of this thread prove that there are a ton of GB community members on both sides of this... a handful of fucked up people on twitter becomes the voice of us all.

i think the problem with this attitude is that most of the time (and i honestly have no idea if it happened in this specific case, i've just seen it so much) the people who aren't slinging the awful shit do nothing to call it out when they see it. it's implicitly acceptable.

 

[aeolist]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

if people focused on the dozens of incorrect things jeff and brad say on the bombcast as much as they do on that one weird mistake leigh made there would never be time to discuss anything else ever

 

[Kurdel]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

I found drunk Greg Miller was akward, until the demon voice was activated and washed away the malaise.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

In all the commotion no one posted the wonderful picture Danny tweeted

Look what they did to you dany

 

[obonicus]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

The structure of E3 is pretty different; no one had the forethought to get Leigh off-mic despite being really drunk. Back then they didn't do the 'cycle everyone out' breaks (or if they did, it was much less frequently), which I imagine they instituted in part to avoid that sort of situation. Mikey Neumann got a share of hate; not nearly what Leigh got, but they cycled him out before he got too obnoxious.

 

[YoYo Switch]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

Leigh was aggressive and picked fights when she was drunk though.

I'm not taking a side. I'm just pointing it out.

Ehhh we should probably look at the tapes though

 

[Crazypanda_85]

When Leigh Alexander was drunk on the bombcast, people attacked her for it. When Greg Miller was drunk on the podcast, people thought it was hilarious.

People still felt that Greg Miller is an idiot (and randomly attack him off and on for years) but he embraced that persona and made it work for him. I've listened to Podcast Beyond since Chris Roper was on it and Greg started off cool then got crazy, and then calmed down again. His rants are not always viewed in the best of lights by a lot of people.

I feel that Leigh was mad about the way she was portrayed on that infamous drunken podcast and was made the way people felt about her. I'm never a fan of people letting themselves go in that fashion but I understand that everyone makes their mistakes. She didn't deserve some of the comments she got but she wasn't an innocent lamb either. Sometimes you have to deal with the situation you place yourself into. Plus, she was not the only one who got flack. Ever since that moment, she has never been a fan of those guys anymore. Plus, she's overly critical of others but doesn't want people to do that to her.