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Giant Bomb #8 | It's a Hit!

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Zaph said:
As the dust settles on twitter, it's nice that quite a few people are cross-promoting each other's work out of solidarity for the women and minorities who aren't getting cut any breaks.

But I'm seeing a slightly worrying trend - it's all written.

Aren't they listening to one of the most important and frequently repeated pieces of advice out there? Video content, regardless if it only gets a couple views, is incredibly important to EiC's. Even Danny said his shitty youtube channel helped land him the gig at GamespotUK and admits to not being a good writer.

Having amazing prose is great, but it's not going to get you far with video outlets like Giant Bomb (and the increasing amount of places copying their style). Applicants are not doing themselves any favours by thinking it's 1998 and being so insistent on the written word. Would anyone begrudge Jeff for refusing to hire someone who doesn't already make regular videos?

So far the only video content I've been exposed to which is created by women is Sore Thumbs, which isn't a bad effort, but neither of the hosts applied.
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I suspect that for a lot of minorities, exposing themselves to the public can be difficult (I'm taking this from the gittip boondoggle). A lot of them deal with serious body and image issues, for instance, or just don't feel safe exposing themselves to the public that way.

Granted, this makes it difficult to cover games in a 'modern' way, but that itself is kind of at the heart of the problem. People aren't paying Mattie Brice a livable wage to write about games, but people kind of aren't paying people to write about games, period.
 
obonicus said:
I suspect that for a lot of minorities, exposing themselves to the public can be difficult (I'm taking this from the gittip boondoggle). A lot of them deal with serious body and image issues, for instance, or just don't feel safe exposing themselves to the public that way.

Granted, this makes it difficult to cover games in a 'modern' way, but that itself is kind of at the heart of the problem. People aren't paying Mattie Brice a livable wage to write about games, but people kind of aren't paying people to write about games, period.
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the fuck? no it isn't lol, we aren't scared of a camera
 
littlegrasshopper said:
HilariousLeanHammerkop.gif
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ibiqpx0qkr3j7ud6kz9.gif
 
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
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Talking about the hiring process at all is a dumb HR move.
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
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Because his hiring choices don't require an explanation and any such explanation would only add fuel to the fire.
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
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Take an official stance and someone will be pissed about it.

I don't think anyone can respond to this.
 
I would appreciate a response as well, but he can't exactly come out and say "yeah, I knew I wanted to hire these guys months ago, but CBSi made us go through this sham of a hiring process because it's company policy."
 
thechristoph said:
The future of discussing video games on the Internet.
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I don't know if the meaning behind your post is snarky or serious, but I'll respond since you chose my post to single out. I stated that because of the subject at hand. As I said in my post, I don't feel like I can make statements about the issue of women applying for jobs that (so far) have all been filled by white males without letting people know my background for fear of being "accused" of not understanding. I don't mean that in a negative way toward the people who would "accuse" me, but just that I recognize that I'm part of the demographic that a lot of people were disappointed in today.
 
antigoon said:
This article is snarky and aggressive, but read re: your plea for calmness.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-anger/
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What a bunch of shit.

No one responds kindly to anger and vitriol. This kind of attitude is not some kind of one-way thing from the privileged to the marginalized... What a strange picture of society that writer has.

antigoon said:
I would appreciate a response as well, but he can't exactly come out and say "yeah, I knew I wanted to hire these guys months ago, but CBSi made us go through this sham of a hiring process because it's company policy."
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Did he actually say that? That's definitely the impression I got when he announced the positions being on the CBSi website. He didn't seem very excited about that, honestly.
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
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Because if they say one word that people perceive to be wrong, the whole thing can blow up even more. Easier to let the whole thing slowly die.

Also, Jeff shouldn't have to explain his hiring choices at all, so there's that.
 
antigoon said:
I would appreciate a response as well, but he can't exactly come out and say "yeah, I knew I wanted to hire these guys months ago, but CBSi made us go through this sham of a hiring process because it's company policy."
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I swear someone already come with this in past pages and even admited it was a little tin foiled.
 
Well today has been some hot bullshit. So long Jeff's good mood, we hardly knew ye.

2014 - 2014

Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
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Feels like Patrick usually takes the fall for responding on GB's behalf on these kinds of matters, or Jeff through an unaffiliated means like Tumblr or something. I'm not expecting anything.
 
antigoon said:
I would appreciate a response as well, but he can't exactly come out and say "yeah, I knew I wanted to hire these guys months ago, but CBSi made us go through this sham of a hiring process because it's company policy."
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If that's what happened, why did Ryckert post "Is the position still open?" in a GB forum thread like two weeks after they started taking applications?
 
We need some damn content so this thread can stop talking about this crap already.

I hope we will see some new feature with Dan, site needs some more variety in the video content.
 
Jeff should hire people he thinks are good for the site.

Making it a racial issue is unnecessary and he shouldn't have to justify it to anyone.
 
GavinGT said:
If that's what happened, why did Ryckert post "Is the position still open?" in a GB forum thread like two weeks after they started taking applications?
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I don't know if it actually happened. I saw people discussing it a number of pages back and it seemed like the consensus opinion.
 
OneEightZero said:
Take an official stance and someone will be pissed about it.

I don't think anyone can respond to this.
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People are pissed anyway.

I wrote "official stance" because that's obviously what it would be taken as but really I just want "Jeff's thoughts", makes me wish they weren't a part of CBSi as I'm sure being part of a huge company like that makes it a lot harder to talk about this kind of thing.

I'm not saying he has to say anything or people should demand an explanation out of him, just saying it'd be nice. I wouldn't even be surprised if he wishes he could be more transparent about this stuff right now.
 
Zaph said:
But I'm seeing a slightly worrying trend - it's all written.
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this is something I have been thinking about too... on top of all the other issues I think the war between writing and audio/video content is also a huge part of this. If you are JUST a good writer with no evidence of audio/video experience you are kind of irrelevant in today's games media, good writing skills is almost just a nice bonus.

99% of the content I take in is at work and audio/visual because I can do that while I am at work and still be working. I can not read an article and still be working, written content is almost an immediate skip for me because of this.

gotta be frustrating if you focused on writing to end up in a world where that isn't as important as it used to be...
 
My lord you guys are still on about the hires.

News flash : there's a metric shit ton of nerdy white 30 year olds like myself and they fit in with GB so Jeff hired TWO of em

Get over it and enjoy the video game talk
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
Click to expand...

Why should he respond at all? What business is it of anyone to say who GB should / should not hire?

Also, if people are upset and think they can do better, why don't they start their own inclusive site? The more the merrier. But watch out if the all-inclusive site isn't inclusive enough!
 
I would be shocked if, at some point soon, Jeff does not say something like: "I understand where people are coming from, but Dan and Jason were absolutely the perfect fits for these positions and they'll do great work at Giant Bomb. Nevertheless, we understand the importance of diversifying our staff and that will be something we are very cognizant of going forward. Thanks to all our very dedicated fans, etc." No one would get mad at that and it has the added bunks of probably being true.
 
Haines said:
My lord you guys are still on about the hires.

News flash : there's a metric shit ton of nerdy white 30 year olds like myself and they fit in with GB so Jeff hired TWO of em

Get over it and enjoy the video game talk
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Please don't tell people what should be important to them.
 
dimb said:
Basic reading comprehension yields that Leigh Alexander is surprised that women would want to work at Giant Bomb. Also, context.
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Which brings back the question, why is she so mad? She obviously doesn't think it's a place where women should want to work and that their talent would be "wasted" there...so why is she so upset?

We know why, because she's just lashing out and is neither genuinely surprised that women wanted to work there nor does she honestly think their talents would be wasted there. If they would have hired a woman she'd be singing their praises and telling everyone that they should visit GB.


Yaboosh said:
Leigh Alexander and Samantha are both fairly irrelevant to the issue. Striking them down doesn't win the argument. Argue their points not their character.
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Did they have actual points or were they just trying to stir up more shit? I mean when you respond to a legitimate question with "fuck off" did you really have a point in the first place? Giant Bomb hired two white dudes in an industry that is populated with white dudes...news at 11. Unless anyone knows the intricacies of the hiring process, who are they, or you, or me to claim it was anything other than hiring the best person for the job?
 
Scizzy said:
I would be shocked if, at some point soon, Jeff does not say something like: "I understand where people are coming from, but Dan and Jason were absolutely the perfect fits for these positions and they'll do great work at Giant Bomb. Nevertheless, we understand the importance of diversifying our staff and that will be something we are very cognizant of going forward. Thanks to all our very dedicated fans, etc." No one would get mad at that and it has the added bunks of probably being true.
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Of course people would get mad at that. They'd complain that it's just more talk and that they'll never actually do anything about it.
 
Scizzy said:
I would be shocked if, at some point soon, Jeff does not say something like: "I understand where people are coming from, but Dan and Jason were absolutely the perfect fits for these positions and they'll do great work at Giant Bomb. Nevertheless, we understand the importance of diversifying our staff and that will be something we are very cognizant of going forward. Thanks to all our very dedicated fans, etc." No one would get mad at that and it has the added bunks of probably being true.
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But then when they hire for GB East or whatever they might feel forced to hire someone less qualified simply to meet the internet's demanded quota of non-white males. I would prefer they hire whoever they feel is best without discriminating based on skin color, gender, or whatever else.
 
antigoon said:
This article is snarky and aggressive, but read re: your plea for calmness.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-anger/
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You're actually making good points and I think the links are super useful. There are totally people who use those tactics, especially today, but in my case I want her to be mad about her discrimination and overall views on sexism. People should get emotional and mad, but the context also doesn't fit.

Her first "go fuck yourself" was to a guy (no idea if he was trolling or not) who asked "What if there was a white guy more qualified?" That bothers me because it's the same question I would've asked several years ago, before, I, uh, cared about things. The response isn't to a person who told her to die, but to a person who's uninformed. Years ago, I took to a forum to defend my religious belief that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. I got a bunch of "fuck you"s and it took me way, way, way longer to understand why gays are equals than if someone had actually said "No, here's why."

I'm in college now (uh, still) and it would be super offensive if I asked an earnest question about a serious topic and got told to fuck off instead of getting the information I needed. Now the dude that asked her a question may never be on her side, and may be actively against her and what she stands for. It sucks because she clearly has so much knowledge and such a passion for justice but won't use it to help.

If, say, a famous politician says something offensive and sexist, or any person with the full knowledge of how hurtful they're being, then yeah, fuck them! "If you tread on someone's toes, and they tell you to get off, then get off their toes," more or less. But seeing her reacting to people is like this non-discriminatory anger-at-the-world that won't/doesn't accomplish anything. I want her to accomplish her goals.
 
TraBuch said:
Of course people would get mad at that. They'd complain that it's just more talk and that they'll never actually do anything about it.
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The vast majority of people who've complained about the hire are not angry about it, they're just kinda disappointed.
 
Uncle Rupee said:
But then when they hire for GB East or whatever they might feel forced to hire someone less qualified simply to meet the internet's demanded quota of non-white males. I would prefer they hire whoever they feel is best without discriminating based on skin color, gender, or whatever else.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think this is something in danger of happening?
 
Scizzy said:
The vast majority of people who've complained about the hire are not angry about it, they're just kinda disappointed.
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i'm way more disappointed in the community (gaf, twitter, whereever) than i am in GB. which is to say i'm not really that fussed about GB's hires at all, but the amount of people who... aggressively don't give a shit and demand you don't either is incredibly depressing.
 
Uncle Rupee said:
But then when they hire for GB East or whatever they might feel forced to hire someone less qualified simply to meet the internet's demanded quota of non-white males. I would prefer they hire whoever they feel is best without discriminating based on skin color, gender, or whatever else.
Click to expand...

God it must be so hard to live with the fear

How do you cope, you're the real hero here
 
In a sad way, I honestly welcome the anniversary of the passing of Ryan Davis to really put LIFE in perspective. The fact that Giant Bomb had to hire more people in the first place was largely due to the hole that he left in the heart of the website.
 
TadThuggish said:
Years ago, I took to a forum to defend my religious belief that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. I got a bunch of "fuck you"s and it took me way, way, way longer to understand why gays are equals than if someone had actually said "No, here's why."
Click to expand...
So the question this raises in my mind is, why do you feel entitled to detailed and compassionate responses to your ignorant and hurtful questions?
 
APF said:
So the question this raises in my mind is, why do you feel entitled to detailed and compassionate responses to your ignorant and hurtful questions?
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he's not saying he's entitled to it, he's saying from a pragmatic standpoint of getting him to come around to a particular view of an argument it's better for the responses not to be immediately hostile

of course that's basically assuming people who suffer these stupid dumbass ignorant/hurtful questions all the time from every direction have the patience of saints
 
Snowman said:
Why hasn't jeff (or anybody?) said something in response to the "you shouldn't hired more white males" stuff? Surely some kind of explanation of his side and what he thinks about that stuff would both let those people know that their criticism is being taken seriously and also the assholes being assholes "in the name of giant bomb" would be reduced if giant bomb had an "official stance".

I hope he talks about it soon anyway, would genuinely like to know what he thinks about all this.
Click to expand...

As somebody who was once involved in hiring, talking publicly about why someone was hired or why someone was not hired is incredibly dangerous. Sometimes in situations where the candidate is internal and someone wants to know why they were not hired, they should speak professionally with the person who did the hiring, and set up time for a private coaching session with them on interviewing and/or how to get the skills they need to be more qualified for the position. But in terms of answering "why them but not me?" answering that question can be super dangerous and could potentially lead to discrimination lawsuits.

But seriously, fuck all this, can we please just get back to dumb shit? Like

littlegrasshopper said:
HilariousLeanHammerkop.gif
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this?
 
Uncle Rupee said:
But then when they hire for GB East or whatever they might feel forced to hire someone less qualified simply to meet the internet's demanded quota of non-white males. I would prefer they hire whoever they feel is best without discriminating based on skin color, gender, or whatever else.
Click to expand...
antigoon said:
Do you seriously think this is something in danger of happening?
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Yeah. the Giant Bomb folks aren't going to cave to the pressure of demand and to assume as such is doing a disservice to who you're talking about. They're smarter than that
even when all the dumb antics they pull is evidence to the contrary
.
 
TadThuggish said:
You're actually making good points and I think the links are super useful. There are totally people who use those tactics, especially today, but in my case I want her to be mad about her discrimination and overall views on sexism. People should get emotional and mad, but the context also doesn't fit.

Her first "go fuck yourself" was to a guy (no idea if he was trolling or not) who asked "What if there was a white guy more qualified?" That bothers me because it's the same question I would've asked several years ago, before, I, uh, cared about things. The response isn't to a person who told her to die, but to a person who's uninformed. Years ago, I took to a forum to defend my religious belief that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. I got a bunch of "fuck you"s and it took me way, way, way longer to understand why gays are equals than if someone had actually said "No, here's why."

I'm in college now (uh, still) and it would be super offensive if I asked an earnest question about a serious topic and got told to fuck off instead of getting the information I needed. Now the dude that asked her a question may never be on her side, and may be actively against her and what she stands for. It sucks because she clearly has so much knowledge and such a passion for justice but won't use it to help.

If, say, a famous politician says something offensive and sexist, or any person with the full knowledge of how hurtful they're being, then yeah, fuck them! "If you tread on someone's toes, and they tell you to get off, then get off their toes," more or less. But seeing her reacting to people is like this non-discriminatory anger-at-the-world that won't/doesn't accomplish anything. I want her to accomplish her goals.
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First of all, thank you for engaging in earnest.

I understand where you are coming from. I would be pretty mad too if someone in an educational setting told me to fuck off. The thing is, especially on Twitter of all places, it's not her responsibility to educate. The onus is on the privileged group.

You're right that her telling random Twitter guy to fuck off doesn't accomplish anything. But that probably wasn't her goal.
 
APF said:
So the question this raises in my mind is, why do you feel entitled to detailed and compassionate responses to your ignorant and hurtful questions?
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He just explained in that very sentence in which you quoted. If people took the time to properly explain things instead of just throwing slurs at each other, then understanding would happen much faster.
 
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