charlequin
Banned
I think basically it comes down to me enjoying the Persona 2 combat system but really not liking anything at all about the negotiation.
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LTTP: Persona 2 Innocent Sin
- Thread starter Immaculate
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I think basically it comes down to me enjoying the Persona 2 combat system but really not liking anything at all about the negotiation.
I suppose if you were really frugal, you could make due with some ultra cheap-yet-versatile Persona's, like Maya's, Maia Prime (which could pretty much be kept for the entire game, for instance)
That reminds me, I once bought Barbatos for a 164 Hanged Man cards in EP. I thought it looked cool, and it was strong in P2:IS, so I figured why not?
Bad idea. Worst decision ever. Barbatos was super bad in EP, they goddamned kneecapped him.
Considering 90% of P4 threads end up talking about which girl they'd like to slick to or <<<endless Chie meat jokes>> I may be on something.
You don't even have to grind for cards if you know what you are doing. The system is hardly "trial and error" (love demons for Lisa, kids love Maya, bull demons like Tatsuya and Michelle) and and rely on people analyzing the enemies traits to form contracts and get free tarots to fill the void of missing cards. You can easily get about 50 free tarots per contact once you reach a part of the game.
There may be *some* trial and error in there, but it's hardly a system entirely based on trials and error.
Trap filled dungeons are a stable in Megaten games. It's why people play these games, actually.
BasilZero
Member
I've played this immediately after I finish P1P few years ago (I had played P1P, P2IS and P3P back to back).
My least favorite Persona game I've played so far but it was still great.
Didnt like the censorship for the main villain.....kinda shame that they didnt release the other P2 game though :/
My least favorite Persona game I've played so far but it was still great.
Didnt like the censorship for the main villain.....kinda shame that they didnt release the other P2 game though :/
I really loved this game, it was the best Persona i've played so far... and i'm really looking forward to playing the second one =P
The encounter rate is a little bit annoying and you can die pretty easily in the dungeons if you're a suicidal player like me though...(i was too lazy to negotiate with them )
But the story is the best one I've seen in Persona series so far, and I think the characters develop pretty well...at least it is much better than in persona 4 were they grow by talking to you and getting almost no responses at all =P
The encounter rate is a little bit annoying and you can die pretty easily in the dungeons if you're a suicidal player like me though...(i was too lazy to negotiate with them )
But the story is the best one I've seen in Persona series so far, and I think the characters develop pretty well...at least it is much better than in persona 4 were they grow by talking to you and getting almost no responses at all =P
No you're not. You're using an irrelevant, unrelated and completely absurd anecdotal argument about the Persona 4 fandom in order to justify your awful slander. It's not gonna fly.
Way to oversimplify the system. The issue isn't about always getting demons to like you; it's ultimately about getting demons to give you contact cards (a.k.a making them Eager), which can vary from demon to demon. Beyond befriending 3 demons, it's always a game of making demons eager, and it takes time (trial & error) to effectively get it down to a point where you don't need a guide. Furthermore, there are times where you run into situations where your team initial setup won't please demons, so multiple contacts must be used (which add even MORE trial and error, as the potential number combinations are ridiculously high). And to add insult to injury, P2 demon tend to throw these inane questions at you, which can completely screw you over (until you effectively memorize them, ie. more trial and error).
It stops being funny after the first time.
Stop being disingenuous. There are other merits to those games that make playing through their dungeons worthwhile. Games such as SMTIV, Soul Hackers and Nocturne have good battle systems that justify having trap filled dungeons, and demon acquisition (while annoying at times) is a relatively painless process. Their battle systems encourage exploration, as the transition in and out of battles don't take forever. Meanwhile, P2's crappy battle system compounds with it's obnoxious Persona acquisition method (and irksome random encounter system) to make dungeon crawling a painful experience. It takes a long time (compared to most SMT games) to finish a battle, even if you're spamming fusion spells.
Hecatonchires Custom
Member
I've recorded two videos to show just how fast normal battles can be in both games.
Eternal Punishment 0:44-1:17 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvcZ8YCPi1Q
Do note that by removing Tatsuya, I inadvertently removed access to most of my fusion spells and that I went against Azazel, the strongest normal encounter in the game. Normally, damage would be dealt before the enemy would die and mutations don't occur 100% of the time, but this is how fast a normal battle goes.
Innocent Sin 0:01-0:21 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pePqadCpki4
Battles are even faster in IS since you can go right ahead and spam the last Fusion Spell you used by pressing Triangle as soon as the menu pops up. Battle cut-ins and such are turned off.
I don't get the complaints about battles being slow :V
Eternal Punishment 0:44-1:17 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvcZ8YCPi1Q
Do note that by removing Tatsuya, I inadvertently removed access to most of my fusion spells and that I went against Azazel, the strongest normal encounter in the game. Normally, damage would be dealt before the enemy would die and mutations don't occur 100% of the time, but this is how fast a normal battle goes.
Innocent Sin 0:01-0:21 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pePqadCpki4
Battles are even faster in IS since you can go right ahead and spam the last Fusion Spell you used by pressing Triangle as soon as the menu pops up. Battle cut-ins and such are turned off.
I don't get the complaints about battles being slow :V
Seriously?
You have to wait for ~15 seconds before you can control your character in EP, and ~10 in IS. Sure, the battles themselves might move a little faster (with fusion spells prepped* and animations turned off) but keep in mind, you're fighting multiple battles in a dungeon, and that 10-15~ seconds is compounded over multiple. It's even longer if you contact demons, since you can't skip anything.
I'm not even sure what you tried to accomplish. SMT Games like Soul Hackers and SMTIV manage to have lightning quick battle transitions, and they don't require provisions like outright removing the battle animation.
You have to wait for ~15 seconds before you can control your character in EP, and ~10 in IS. Sure, the battles themselves might move a little faster (with fusion spells prepped* and animations turned off) but keep in mind, you're fighting multiple battles in a dungeon, and that 10-15~ seconds is compounded over multiple. It's even longer if you contact demons, since you can't skip anything.
I'm not even sure what you tried to accomplish. SMT Games like Soul Hackers and SMTIV manage to have lightning quick battle transitions, and they don't require provisions like outright removing the battle animation.
Hecatonchires Custom
Member
You never control your characters directly in 2 so yeah, it makes sense that it takes a bit longer before they can act since they all use their turns in quick succession without menu prompts between them. That doesn't mean the battles are slow because they really aren't, hell, they're on par with Persona 3 and 4.
And of course the two games you listed have faster animations, the battles are done in first person view. You don't need to show anything but slashes and magic effects, I don't know why you keep comparing them.
What exactly is the problem with trial and error? Were you never right on the first attempt? You make it sound like you can't guess at all what the demons want to hear.
(Informed) trial and error is much better than stupid grinding, simply repeating steps that you know to work. As long as the game throws stuff at me where I have to figure things out, as long as it has variety for me, I feel entertained.
It gets boring (and the negotiation events tediously long) once you know what to say. Even for avoiding battles they're a bit too long. That is when I start to battle again. Unless there is a enemy with a nasty resistance/reflect, then I try to avoid the battle so I don't have to change my reel. In EP you had to do that much more often.
You're definitely right, mainline SMT has much faster battles, movement, negotiation. Except for Nocturne but which still is quite fast compared to other JRPGs.
The Persona 2 games adapt to popular RPGs of the time, mostly FF. Longer and flashier animation, simpler but prettier locations, stuff like that. FF cut down on encounter rates to compensate for load times and longer animations, Persona 2 also did it but not enough so. That is why I'm puzzled that they raised the encounter rate for the PSP versions.
As long as I can learn new stuff, as long as the story moves fast enough, as long as I get to see enough places, I don't mind if the battles aren't lightning quick. There is a pay off between nice looking and fast enough too make grinding less tedious. Because that's what repetition is, tedious. I'd rather they get away from grinding and make the normal encounters more worthwhile, with more complex negotiation and good visual presentation.
Persona 2 only halfway accomplishes that, because at some point it gets stale (like most any RPG, really). It doesn't get better with a second game which is as slow but you have to adapt your reel all the time which is what really slows down progress. Compared to EP, IS is quick for that reason.
Nocturne was much better in terms of gameplay because it restricted your options but made them count. It was fast and yet demanded strategic choices. I appreciate the battle systems in FFX and FFXIII for similar reasons.
But still, the negotiation system in P2IS does stand out. I feel it's worth playing the game just for it. And the brilliant story of course.
cj_iwakura
Member
Keep in mind SH's were absurdly sped up. And I still think you're exaggerating about the slowness of those battles, but I've beaten EP around four times now, so color me biased.
You misunderstood my post. From 0:44 to 0:54 is a period of time where you can't actually do anything. That's roughly 10 seconds of un-skippable loading for every single battle, which is far longer than most SMT games. It's even worse when animations are used (the fact the game encourages turning off animations is absolutely a bad thing).
I'm not sure why you constantly see the need to bring up P3/P4, but please keep in mind that both games operate on a completely different battle system and lack a random encounter system.They're not really comparable to P2.
Oh come on. You were the one lumped P2 along with the rest of the SMT games in the first place, so why can't I do the same? You can't have it both ways! In any case, the fact SMTIV/SH are first person is irrelevant. At the end of the day, both of these games transition faster into battle than P2, making them far more enjoyable to play through. Hence why I said that dungeon crawling is infinitely more enjoyable in those games.
It's just incredibly frustrating. I'm obsessed with results, so when I make the decision to use contacts (which are time-consuming as fuck), I want a payoff. Contacting wouldn't have been as bad if demons didn't have a penchant for throwing incredibly obnoxious questions into the mix. Because if it was absolutely necessary for Personas to be obtained this way, it would be passable if there was some sense of consistency. But there isn't, and here's why:
Let's say you've brought a demons eagerness to level 2. Then out of the blue it asks you your opinion on Neogaf, or something incredibly random.
Answers:
1. It's alright
2. Blue
3. I don't know
4. I'm the admin
What is there to figure out? It goes beyond trial and error; it's simple guesswork at this point (until you memorize these questions. But there are a lot of them...). Getting the answer right doesn't even guarantee you raise eagerness (you might happiness or fear). Getting it wrong almost gives demons anger points, and it usually prompts them to ask another question. It's the ultimate time waster. I've gotten into situations where I was close to getting the tarot cards, but a demon decides to throw out a barrage of questions to mess up my flaw. Of course, this doesn't always happen but it's just an inconvenient and unnecessary feature. I'll take controlled grinding over randomized bullshit any day of the week.
I would have appreciated the contact system if it wasn't absolutely required to obtain new Personas. I don't think I would have minded it as much if traditional fusing was in P2. I actually like the fact that P2:EP constantly forces you to change your Persona setup (it's more inline with standard SMT games) it's just that the Personas themselves are blocked behind absurd tarot requirements, which causes your momentum to grind to a halt as you grind for more Tarot cards.
Any of the four emotions are counted to three, the fact that the other emotions you don't want can be raised and can potentially overtake the one you want, eagerness, is what makes it thrilling. You on the other hand basically want success to be guaranteed and not be required to build any knowledge first.
The more of the question-answer sets you memorized the better your results will be (just like with raising your level and defeating enemies faster with better stats) but often a question cannot even raise the emotion you need, so yes, the questions are obstacles. That is better than the demon being a push over. It's like complaining that when you attack a resistance element in Nocturne it will mean you lose several turns. Or that some of your party members may have zero options to do a positive turn if they cannot attack a neutral or weak spot because the enemy has a unfavorable resistance combination (or high agility making physical attacks miss). Sometimes you don't know yet, sometimes you already know but can't do anything that will not have a negative outcome. But you can adjust your setup and be prepared for more and more situations.
Even for grinding I prefer randomness to spice up repetition. Like critical hits, special abilities which don't attack but can obtain items like steal or morph, abilities that potentially affect a negative status on the enemy like poison, sleep, confuse, etc., attacks that do high damage on a status afflicted enemy. An example from DQX: with a dagger thief I might alternate between stealing and using poison dagger. If I successfully steal, I stop stealing, if I poison the enemy, I attack for big damage. Both aren't guaranteed to succeed but the frustration is lower if you don't keep doing the same single technique over and over and you have two types of successes that can occur.
With traditional fusing you turn two to three demons into one, so your roster shrinks every time. You still need to keep negotiating while you fuse or you will run out of party members.
P2 on the other hand has evolutions so you can update your party members without acquiring new members by negotiation. Mainline SMT has that too, in any case you have several options at all times.
Tarot requirements are hardly absurd. You don't have to be successful with every demon, you don't have to acquire everyone. Getting items from them isn't bad either, some of them leaving in fear or ending a battle because they're happy aren't bad outcomes either. Contacts are just something to replace repetitive battles. Like I said, I actually stop contacting once it becomes repetitive too.
Grinding as in staying in one place and repeating encounters without moving forward, it is never required in either P2. You can move forward all the time and the regular encounters are enough to grow stronger, both in level and number of party members, to win any battle with strategy.
Note: The following arguments apply to EP. Grinding is not necessary in IS.
I don't really see how that's thrilling in any fashion, but to each one's own. I personally think their main appeal comes from their humor. I love seeing the Flamenco de la Passion contact combo.
I memorized a few, but I couldn't be bothered to memorize the majority of the questions. Fundamentally disagree with the bolded.
No it's not. I'm well aware of the risks involved with attacking an enemy when their weaknesses aren't revealed Nocturne. A better analogy would be that if you attacked an enemy, there would be a set chance in which a question would pop up, and your attack would fail when you answered it wrong. And keep in mind, this has nothing to do with combat. This is tied to getting tarot cards, a tremendously valuable resource.
That's not really a fair comparison. The dagger thief scenario is a win-win. Attempting to contact an enemy, and potentially running the risk of getting into a situation where it enrages itself to a point where you can't contact it anymore is a win-lose scenario. It's random sure, but it just ends up being frustrating. And once again, this is tied to gathering resources, not fighting.
You end rack up a decent amount of cards over the course of the game. It's just that you into situations where you can't summon a specific Persona because you lack specific cards. Fusing would theoretically give you the chance to fuse them, in addition to letting you make use out of your old, outdated Personas.
Only in IS. Maya is the only one with a Persona handout in P2:EP.
The items you get from demons are generally poor, and having them leave the battle in fear deprives you of EXP. I'm well aware of the fact that you're encouraged to contact to break up the monotony of battles, but I consider contacts even more monotonous than battles In any case, we've already beaten this topic to death, so we should just agree to disagree. I understand why someone would have your viewpoint, but it's something I can't be bothered with, especially when you have to manage and update 5 separate Personas.
I personally ran into a few situations where my party set up wasn't good enough for a boss, so I would wander the dungeon, gathering cards, training and looking for items.
I don't really see how that's thrilling in any fashion, but to each one's own. I personally think their main appeal comes from their humor. I love seeing the Flamenco de la Passion contact combo.
I memorized a few, but I couldn't be bothered to memorize the majority of the questions. Fundamentally disagree with the bolded.
No it's not. I'm well aware of the risks involved with attacking an enemy when their weaknesses aren't revealed Nocturne. A better analogy would be that if you attacked an enemy, there would be a set chance in which a question would pop up, and your attack would fail when you answered it wrong. And keep in mind, this has nothing to do with combat. This is tied to getting tarot cards, a tremendously valuable resource.
That's not really a fair comparison. The dagger thief scenario is a win-win. Attempting to contact an enemy, and potentially running the risk of getting into a situation where it enrages itself to a point where you can't contact it anymore is a win-lose scenario. It's random sure, but it just ends up being frustrating. And once again, this is tied to gathering resources, not fighting.
You end rack up a decent amount of cards over the course of the game. It's just that you into situations where you can't summon a specific Persona because you lack specific cards. Fusing would theoretically give you the chance to fuse them, in addition to letting you make use out of your old, outdated Personas.
Only in IS. Maya is the only one with a Persona handout in P2:EP.
The items you get from demons are generally poor, and having them leave the battle in fear deprives you of EXP. I'm well aware of the fact that you're encouraged to contact to break up the monotony of battles, but I consider contacts even more monotonous than battles In any case, we've already beaten this topic to death, so we should just agree to disagree. I understand why someone would have your viewpoint, but it's something I can't be bothered with, especially when you have to manage and update 5 separate Personas.
I personally ran into a few situations where my party set up wasn't good enough for a boss, so I would wander the dungeon, gathering cards, training and looking for items.
Hecatonchires Custom
Member
You're forgetting Mutations, Personas of the Major arcana that turn into Minor arcana ones. Often with exclusive and/or better spells then the regular, cards bought Personas. I am aware that they involve triggering their mutation effect through spell fusion but it happens all the time if you do use them and it's totally worth the effort.
I won't answer to everything you wrote, just point out that things can be analogous without being same. The randomness and different degrees of success and failure as well as improving the base for success, they're the same both in combat and negotiation. They are the same underlying principles applied slightly differently in each case.
Also it is an example for grinding for a rare item which only is successful once we get the rare item, which also is a valuable resource. Even if I manage to steal and defeat the enemy quickly (double win?) so we can fit more battles into the time window where status raising items take effect, if at the end of the battle the enemy doesn't drop the rare item, it is a lose after all. It is in fact very comparable.
Frustration will make success all the more accomplished. If the game frustrates you, it might just be challenging. If it never frustrates you, success will be taken for granted and not appreciated.
It only is bad if it is unfair. It isn't, it is nicely balanced by the same principles that apply for battles.
It is win-win-lose. It can happen that neither is successful for a long time, even until the end of the battle. Also, if I poison the enemy I can defeat it quickly but I still might not have succeeded in stealing so it is a lower win, like getting an item or ending a battle during negotiation. Degrees.
Also it is an example for grinding for a rare item which only is successful once we get the rare item, which also is a valuable resource. Even if I manage to steal and defeat the enemy quickly (double win?) so we can fit more battles into the time window where status raising items take effect, if at the end of the battle the enemy doesn't drop the rare item, it is a lose after all. It is in fact very comparable.
Frustration will make success all the more accomplished. If the game frustrates you, it might just be challenging. If it never frustrates you, success will be taken for granted and not appreciated.
It only is bad if it is unfair. It isn't, it is nicely balanced by the same principles that apply for battles.
I can see that, I was severely underleveled for most of the game too. Which is why I thought EP to be more tedious than IS. But I could still win everything with strategy.
It's not not something I can usually agree with (it depends on the game), but I respect your opinion.
Same. I managed to overcome the level deficit with strategies (the Heartful prayer + kaja fusion spells was extremely helpful) along with the story based Ultimate Personas. (Thank you lvl 55 Tatsuya Suou)
Sorry, I didn't intend for that at all. I only wanted to refute the ridiculous slander directed at P3/P4 fans, and I guess I got caught up in a heated argument.
Weird thing is, P2IS does have a "waifu" system. It's just subdued and not in any way a major focus like its sequels.
Yeah. It was actually pretty awesome of P2 to let you date Jun. Not many games include have a LGBT love interest that isn't completely in your face (or in some cases, their sexuality is barely even a factor). Jun somehow manages to avoid both pitfalls, and his relationship with Tatsuya comes across as pretty natural as a result. It's a shame that P3 and P4 didn't even bother including a LGBT love interest, so i'm hoping P5 rectifies that.
Incidentally, the P2 girls are goddamn gorgeous. You can bet your ass people would be fawning over them like they do with P3/P4 girls if P2 was more popular.
Eriko ♥
*Ahem*
Back when P2EP was out, I found Maya reasonably attractive for a female protagonist but with the mute personality in place I found myself gravitating towards Ulala instead. She was a scrappy fighter but her dialogue scenes constantly depicted her as a down-on-her-luck gal trying to scrape together some instance of a normal life. She had plenty of flaws, most of which became plot points in the story: jealousy, naivete when it comes to men, constantly complaining about how her life sucks, bit of a mean streak, etc. It made her seem approachable if she were a real person. Well, she seemed more real than the perpetually-happy Maya to the younger me, anyway.
At least she's honest where it counts.
It's interesting to consider how Persona 2 IS and EP would have been received by the post-P3/P4 fanbase if they had gotten full remakes instead of the straight ports. The cast and plot of P2 + graphics on-par with P4 + Once More battle system w/ fusion spells = better reception? I know for those who love the early low-polygon environments, sprite graphics and the game's antiquated gameplay systems this type of wishful thinking is borderline blasphemy of the highest order... but I still think Atlus could have done a better job "modernizing" the originals.
But to be perfectly honest, I just wanted them to consolidate the two P2s into one title. Shame that didn't happen with the PSP ports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Gk-onicEc
Sorry in advance for going off on a tangent.
Actually that too is expanding on what FFVII introduced in the PS era. We started with saving the princess (Mario, DQ1), moved on to marrying (PS3, FE4, DQV) and multi ended games like SMT (with its Tokyo Destiny Land, spoof of Disney Land, where couples spend romantic time) until arriving at FFVII, with its theme park Gold Saucer, mixing DQ casino and SMT Tokyo Destiny Land references, where you go on a date with Aerith, Tifa, Yuffie or Barret.
P2IS took that one step further.
Even Ocarina of Time had several female characters central to the narrative, so despite the lack of dating game mechanics, it did add alternatives to Zelda along the fixed way, though inevitably arriving at Zelda. Clearly a nod to the influence of FFVII.
It feels strange to consider a "dating" mechanic an evolution of a "marriage" mechanic... seems like it'd be the other way around, no? But going from an obvious choice (pick her or her to marry) that is made by selection to a system where the person you end up with during a certain event is tied to the many choices you made up to that point (the hidden "love points" system) really is exactly that, isn't it?
Though I have a hard time believing FFVII was the very first to use that kind of system. Something like that was available in the Satella-view game Radical Dreamers, but it mainly influenced whether you got the good ending or not (which is tied directly to whether or not the protag "got" the girl).
Fuck, where are we going with this. I just want to talk about Innocent Sin.
Did anyone actually bother with the casino and power-leveling so they could summon Lucifer and Satan? Was it worth it?
Though I have a hard time believing FFVII was the very first to use that kind of system. Something like that was available in the Satella-view game Radical Dreamers, but it mainly influenced whether you got the good ending or not (which is tied directly to whether or not the protag "got" the girl).
Fuck, where are we going with this. I just want to talk about Innocent Sin.
Did anyone actually bother with the casino and power-leveling so they could summon Lucifer and Satan? Was it worth it?
Hecatonchires Custom
Member
It feels strange to consider a "dating" mechanic an evolution of a "marriage" mechanic... seems like it'd be the other way around, no? But going from an obvious choice (pick her or her to marry) that is made by selection to a system where the person you end up with during a certain event is tied to the many choices you made up to that point (the hidden "love points" system) really is exactly that, isn't it?
Though I have a hard time believing FFVII was the very first to use that kind of system. Something like that was available in the Satella-view game Radical Dreamers, but it mainly influenced whether you got the good ending or not (which is tied directly to whether or not the protag "got" the girl).
Fuck, where are we going with this. I just want to talk about Innocent Sin.
Did anyone actually bother with the casino and power-leveling so they could summon Lucifer and Satan? Was it worth it?
I did in Eternal Punishment to plow through the EX dungeon. I honestly don't see why anyone would do that in IS though unless you really want a complete Persona compendium.
The alignment system in SMT is similar, although it doesn't relate to dating. Mechanics wise it is a precursor though, which is why I mentioned it.
RD being a sound novel it most certainly is influenced by Otogirisou by Chunsoft, the first sound novel. Most of the multiple choices in that game related to how you would behave towards your girlfriend, who turned out to be from the mansion you explore in the game. In both cases there is only one girl though, FFVII and P2IS add the multiple love interests and especially including a male one.
There were also already dedicated dating games but they weren't huge mainstream successes like FFVII. Which was influential because it was so popular.
Back when P2EP was out, I found Maya reasonably attractive for a female protagonist but with the mute personality in place I found myself gravitating towards Ulala instead. She was a scrappy fighter but her dialogue scenes constantly depicted her as a down-on-her-luck gal trying to scrape together some instance of a normal life. She had plenty of flaws, most of which became plot points in the story: jealousy, naivete when it comes to men, constantly complaining about how her life sucks, bit of a mean streak, etc. It made her seem approachable if she were a real person. Well, she seemed more real than the perpetually-happy Maya to the younger me, anyway.
At least she's honest where it counts.
Dude, Ulala was probably my favorite P2 duology character. I just loved, loved, LOVED nearly every aspect of her character. She was arguably the most fleshed out character in P2, and she ended up being the most relatable character as a result. She was a *normal* one in a group filled with weirdos. Her relationship dynamic with Maya was also pretty fantastic; she's undeniably your *bro* (or your sis, rather) but she was also incredibly resentful towards her as well. I also like how her contact with Maya changes from "Friends?" to "Friends" after the events of the Gold Gym. And finally, the fact that her desire to try new things (Flamenco dancing, flower fortunes, cooking, boxing, public health volunteering, etc) mostly stems from anxiety about the life really speaks to me. It's just another aspect of her character that makes her so damn appealing.
Man... Ulala was just fantastic, lol.
At least she's honest where it counts.
I think it's more fitting to say that Katsuya is honest where it counts, i.e. admitting one's guilt and not allowing rumors to be used to hide the original sin.
cj_iwakura
Member
At least she's honest where it counts.
Heh, IS has a conversation like that between Yukino and Maya in the same place.
cj_iwakura
Member
That's the part. Maya asks for Tatsu's opinion, then Yuki gripes about hers being small.
Damn cj, taking the Maya avatar I'd use if I wasn't already so Apollo-committed.
Anyway, ignoring the massive debate that took place up-thread (I'll probably give my thoughts on it once I actually finish) I'm getting closer to the end -
It was a bit abrupt at the end of
when the game makes you pick a love interest out of nowhere. I went for
I assume it doesn't really effect much of anything else though.
At this point I'm looking forward to EP a lot, just because I'm getting the nagging sense there's still going to be a lot of loose ends at the end of IS - maybe too many to have the game feel like it has a satisfying ending, even for a 'part one'.
Anyway, ignoring the massive debate that took place up-thread (I'll probably give my thoughts on it once I actually finish) I'm getting closer to the end -
going through the temples right now.
Taurus
Jun because why the hell not. Also it lets you troll angels in combat with their group contact.
At this point I'm looking forward to EP a lot, just because I'm getting the nagging sense there's still going to be a lot of loose ends at the end of IS - maybe too many to have the game feel like it has a satisfying ending, even for a 'part one'.
chrominance
Member
Oh no. OH NO. Eternal Punishment is still on my backlog. I was afraid of something like this.
cj_iwakura
Member
It's so good, though. Do it!
And it's kind of sad how IS rushes though stuff near the end,
what with all the major reveals happening in the last few dungeons
Yeah, the game certainly does a lot of telegraphing if you bother to ask around. For example -
Actually on a similar note,
I put 2:1 odds on Jun's father being another 'rumor' being or otherwise fake, since reading the notes at the detective agency and talking to the conspiracy teacher makes it pretty clear his real father died at Sevens' clock tower.
Actually on a similar note,
they just didn't care about Jun's mom, huh? She takes a spear for him and literally nobody says a word about it. Maybe it'll get brought up again later.
cj_iwakura
Member
Maybe cause no one likes her? Heh.
Uh, what are people's thoughts about the 'insult' name for KS? I don't think either the fan translation or the Atlus version made much sense. One doesn't really come across as readable, the other is just kind of plain.
They were "K'ass-u-gay-ama" and "Cuss High", respectively.
Do you mind elaborating? It's been a while since I played EP.
It has that in common with
Chrono Cross
I played EP eight years ago but here is how I remember it:
A big point of the EP story was the original sin and trying to make it disappear because in Japanese moral conception, pollution/impurity (kegare) is the worst so Shinto has these purification rituals like ritual washing. Maya's Let's think positive (I won't quote the Engrish) comes around to bite them in the ass for that reason because it can be misused to deny the impurity.
Maybe it's because he's a cop (and because his family is directly affected by the rumors that aim to make the original sin go away) but Katsuya often stresses the importance to not deny one's guilt when they discuss the original sin.
Maybe it's because he's a cop (and because his family is directly affected by the rumors that aim to make the original sin go away) but Katsuya often stresses the importance to not deny one's guilt when they discuss the original sin.
One sounds like what an actual, foul-mouthed and anti-PC teenager would say, and one sounds like it came from an ABC Afterschool Special. So in other words, one is very direct in its intent to discredit via slur and the other is simply a descriptor with no bite.
I understand Tom took some heat for coming up with that first one. On that note, while I can see random student NPCs using that first one callously, I can't see Lisa using anything but the second even though she's a bit of a hot-head.
cj_iwakura
Member
The thing is, it's a written insult. It makes no sense if spoken, unlike Kasu High like in the JP version, which I understand means delinquency. I would've gone with that, and had an NPC explain it.
Each version has a quirk that really irks me. In PS1, it's 'Michelle'. In PSP, it's 'Masked Circle', which ruins everything iconic about the Masquerade.
Which insult are you talking about?
K'ass-you-gay-ama = 'cuz you gay' when spoken
Cuss High = Kas High (shortened form of Kasugayama High School)
I can see Cuss High is a little more of a stretch when spoken, but it doesn't take much for a punk kid to take something and twist it into something dark. It doesn't even have to make sense for them to think it's funny or clever.
Yeah, I wasn't a fan of 'Masked Circle'.
cj_iwakura
Member
Wow, I didn't pick up on the first one. I figured it was just highlighting the profane syllables.
Since I finished IS last week and am now a little ways into EP, I should probably post my thoughts on IS.
I'm giving EP PSP a go, with a little help from occasional cross-referencing English LPs. It's definitely a sight harder than IS so far, but the super-fast skip option in battles makes it a lot more palatable.
- The story was good, but didn't quite live up to the hype. I kind of hope
at the end wasn't supposed to be a twist, because it was telegraphed as soon as you hearMaya dying.the oracle
- On top of that, I'm not convinced IS' story works so well as a standalone. Which... I mean, it's not. It's the first half of a duology. But even with that in mind, the ending felt kind of unsatisfying. But from the little of EP I've played, it "primes" that game's plot excellently.
- The characters were really enjoyable. Eikichi and Lisa still felt a little too comic-relief at times, but I really enjoyed all the playable characters, and the final villain was impressively jerkish.
- The encounter rate is too damn high. It got a little better with Estoma, but even then it wasn't until I took time off from the final dungeon to go do the Abandoned Factory that I got to a level where it was actually useful, since I would usually be at or a little below the monster level in dungeons.
- The battle system itself was simple but effective. No real complaints here.
- Presentation-wise, everyone having the same few sprite poses is a little tiring, but other than that I thought all the spritework held up pretty well, and the remastered music was great.
- Also audio-wise: no real objections with the voice acting.
I'm giving EP PSP a go, with a little help from occasional cross-referencing English LPs. It's definitely a sight harder than IS so far, but the super-fast skip option in battles makes it a lot more palatable.
cj_iwakura
Member
EP PS1 is on sale this week, and has a very good localization IMO, aside from t h e s l o w t e x t s p e e d and ellipses.
Well, in a long list of turn of events of varying unexptedness you pick out one you saw coming. Okay.
It was also telegraphed by being a repeat of Aerith's death. Mom dies! At least FFXIII gets that out of the way very early.
I think it works perfectly well as a standalone. The youth perspective was given and the story could have ended there. EP showing the adult perspective requires IS because it references it, you're lacking context and understanding without it. IS doesn't require EP at all.
Although playing EP does enhance the story of IS also, I agree with that. I was just annoyed that the gameplay felt a lot worse the second time around. Same locations and gameplay adjustments that made the limitations more obvious and painful. Although I might feel different if I had started using the shortened battle animations earlier, like not only hours before I beat it.
I felt from a gameplay standpoint DDS was the better duology. New locations, and the gameplay withstood "more of the same" better, because press turn is so simple yet deep it can really grow with variation and rising difficulty. Persona 2 is clunky and slow in comparison.
Immaculate
Banned
Late bump
Beat the game back in July and really enjoyed it. Might jump into EP later but I have a few questions
End game spoilers
Also should I play P1 before EP? I saw an P1 character in the main cast would it be better to play the game he's from to get a better idea of him and the story?
Beat the game back in July and really enjoyed it. Might jump into EP later but I have a few questions
End game spoilers
why did ms.ideal kill Maya?I know you need a sacrifice but she was so stupid it felt forced. She just pops in and kills her like that. Then she just left with nyarly, whys that?
Also should I play P1 before EP? I saw an P1 character in the main cast would it be better to play the game he's from to get a better idea of him and the story?
cj_iwakura
Member
Because if she hadn't, Okamura would have died to fulfill the prophecy.
She wanted to live, simple as that.
Ideal was also mislead. She thought that was Jun's father, her mentor and idol.
She wanted to live, simple as that.
Ideal was also mislead. She thought that was Jun's father, her mentor and idol.
And, yes.
Immaculate
Banned
Oh that makes sense then guess I was over thinking. Her death was just so simple and it still pisses me off though since she could've easily dodged that
How's the PSP version of 1? I heard the soundtrack isn't exactly good. And thanks!
cj_iwakura
Member
You'd be right, the P1 remake OST is wretched compared to the original's.
Deadline
Black Snow
If all else fails, mute the game and put on the youtube OST.
Because beyond that, the PSP version is easily the best, and far easier to play than the PS1 version. They also added character art portraits and it has a great localization.
The OST isn't worth suffering the PS1 version unless you enjoy pain.
I started playing it recently (around 1/3 into it), its pretty good but really different from 3/4.
The story is really freaking weird at the beginning and i didnt know wtf was happening for a while, but everything is explained later on and the whole rumors coming true story is interesting.
Demon negotiation is pretty bad, but i never liked that so whatever.
Battle system is good as well, even if it can be a bit slow if one doesnt utilize auto battle and setting up fusion spells. Random battles were a choir until i realized that Mega Blaze makes the first 1/3 of the game a walk in the park. Mega Blaze + Pegasus strike + auto = Battles over in an instant 90% of the time.
Its not as good as 3/4 for me so far but still a solid 8.
The story is really freaking weird at the beginning and i didnt know wtf was happening for a while, but everything is explained later on and the whole rumors coming true story is interesting.
Demon negotiation is pretty bad, but i never liked that so whatever.
Battle system is good as well, even if it can be a bit slow if one doesnt utilize auto battle and setting up fusion spells. Random battles were a choir until i realized that Mega Blaze makes the first 1/3 of the game a walk in the park. Mega Blaze + Pegasus strike + auto = Battles over in an instant 90% of the time.
Its not as good as 3/4 for me so far but still a solid 8.