PdotMichael
Banned
No, dangerous play is only for situations without physical contact between two players. Anything else is a foul.
This situation is only a thing because some people are trying to start a myth.
2014 FIFA World Cup Final |OT| Germany defeats Argentina 1-0 after extra time
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No, dangerous play is only for situations without physical contact between two players. Anything else is a foul.
This situation is only a thing because some people are trying to start a myth.
Its possibly taken from the camera that runs on a track, so I suppose its moving at a similar speed to Higuaín's run.
PdotMichael
Banned
http://youtu.be/5nJqqQbcdsM
again.
The gif is not the original speed. Not sure if Suhilegend or the tool he used for the gifs changed the speed.
again.
The gif is not the original speed. Not sure if Suhilegend or the tool he used for the gifs changed the speed.
Wind's Howling
Member
So if Neuer would have miraculously missed Hiquain it would have been dangerous play?
Pay attention, folks. Logic is in play here.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
James, you forgot about this 100% legit goal that Argentina was denied
That was clearly offside.
PdotMichael
Banned
It was neither a foul nor dangerous play.
You didn't use the term dangerous play correctly the first time.
Again, no.
Cf. two legs or coming with your legs stretched out. A sliding where you hit the ball first but still sweep the players legs from under him can still be considered a foul.
edit: wait misread what you said, sorry about that.
Broder Salsa
Banned
It's the way gifs work that makes them never the completely correct speed. You can also see that Higuain celebration is a bit sped up compared to normal, it's that or having it slower.
Wind's Howling
Member
Different camera's. You can eventually see the fragment Sunhi used and it has the exact same speed.
Wat? the gif is the original speed. Check 1:12 of the video you posted. Looks pretty much the same.
PdotMichael
Banned
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf
Page 26 - just a reminder for all.
Playing in a dangerous manner is defined as any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player himself)
Too bad that some German fans are only able to see this shit black and white. No one will take your victory back. I think they deserved the win yesterday, they also deserved a red card for Howedes and possibly a yellow for Neuer. But it is what its I guess. Fans being fans.
The Inventor
Member
Correct, it was offside. I'm Argentinian and I'm still a rational person, so I don't understand how some people want to believe Neuer made the right choice when he almost took Higuain's jaw back to Germany with him.
PdotMichael
Banned
Looking at the reactions of the international sportpress.There are more than just "some".
Arjen
Member
Twitter heatmap
That's pretty cool.
It's crazy how much they love football in SE Asia..
Some dudes i talked to even followed the smaller leagues in Europe, pretty awesome.
Yes, I thought you meant that anything goes when the ball was hit first, like the other person. You're right. This says it more clearly:
Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the players.
If there is a physical contact, the action becomes a offence punishable with a direct free kick or penalty kick
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf
So it should either have been penalty and possibly a red card, or a throw in. Given the course of the match, the latter is the preferred option. Though it is a bit worrying that we see an increase in harsh tackles.
You link to this document as if referees actually use it as a guide, LOL. We've seen tons of fouls wrongfully judged and sanctioned this world cup. Fouls on players in a goal-scoring oppurtunity sanctioned with yellow, elbows and fists sanctioned with a free kick, obvious diving rewarded with PKs.... the level of this WC's referees was abysmal at best.
sankt-Antonio
Banned
From what i can tell only a third actually showed up at work
Great game, Germany had lots of luck but was also the better team. What a finale.
Wind's Howling
Member
You are seriously standing by your statement? Alright.
Here are two basic FIFA rules for you:
Careless; means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making his challenge or that he acted without precaution:
''no further disciplinary sanction is needed if a foul is judged to be careless''
Reckless; means that the player has acted with complete disregard of the danger to, or consequences for, his opponent:
''a player who plays in a reckless manner shall be cautioned''
These are offences in the Group of Six.
For fouls in the group of six:
''restart with a direct free kick for the opposing team where the offence occurred*
exception: if the offence was committed by a defender inside his own penalty area penalty kick for the attacking team
I rest my case.
CheDominik
Member
From what i can tell only a third actually showed up at work
Great game, Germany had lots of luck but was also the better team. What a finale.
I called in sick today as well, as I was at home at 5am.
Yeah it was a game worthy of a final and neither team deserved to lose. Mascherano(although he should have been sent off probably) was just a beast in midfield and Demichelis and Garay shut down everything.
Too bad Demichelis of all people had to make the mistake that led to the goal.
Schürrle was great and Schweinsteiger was everywhere. Great match and not the abomination that was the 1990 final.
zephervack
Member
Watching this right now, thanks, they look like someone died, second place is good too...
PdotMichael
Banned
Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the players.
If there is a physical contact, the action becomes a offence punishable with a direct free kick or penalty kick.
page 27 of the pdf I posted
So either it was a foul by Neuer or it wasn't one. And looking at the fact that the international press doesn't really discuss this scene. It looks like the most people share the opinion it wasn't a foul by Neuer.
Your quotes are missing the point completely.
Maninthemirror
Banned
After a day my thoughts:
Germany got flustered in first 30 minutes when they couldn't get a chance to score as opposed to their previous game.
Messi was playing too deep. All his group games were him playing forward where he had a shot on goal at least. here all he could do is pass to the wings. incorrect strategy.
Lavezzi, Higuaine and Aguero are not good finishers of the ball and should have been in the position Messi was in the game.
Messi at the end of the game had 24 chances (passes which result in a clear shot at goal) created, most by any player in the world cup. Unfortunately the forwards were shit and couldn't capitalize
Muller, Lahm and Klose were completely shut down by a decent defense. Any better defense and Germany might have gone a goal down.
Romero ended up being better than in the beginning of the world cup but he could have stopped the Gotze shot easily if he had extended his hand which he didn't
Neur was again brilliant and his positioning was really good.
Germany will have trouble getting into final in 2018 with Lahm and Klose especially getting old and with players going away the chemistry will take time to build up. Lahms position change in knockout stages was the catalyst which resulted in germany going from drawing ghana to winning games, and Klose was the finisher he was in 2010
Argentina has less talent coming up than germany for future and this is the fear people had that even though messi is only 26, the next generation for 2018 and 2022 world cup has less talent than the current crop...but then again even the lesser talent could have put that higuaine shot on goal.
Germany got flustered in first 30 minutes when they couldn't get a chance to score as opposed to their previous game.
Messi was playing too deep. All his group games were him playing forward where he had a shot on goal at least. here all he could do is pass to the wings. incorrect strategy.
Lavezzi, Higuaine and Aguero are not good finishers of the ball and should have been in the position Messi was in the game.
Messi at the end of the game had 24 chances (passes which result in a clear shot at goal) created, most by any player in the world cup. Unfortunately the forwards were shit and couldn't capitalize
Muller, Lahm and Klose were completely shut down by a decent defense. Any better defense and Germany might have gone a goal down.
Romero ended up being better than in the beginning of the world cup but he could have stopped the Gotze shot easily if he had extended his hand which he didn't
Neur was again brilliant and his positioning was really good.
Germany will have trouble getting into final in 2018 with Lahm and Klose especially getting old and with players going away the chemistry will take time to build up. Lahms position change in knockout stages was the catalyst which resulted in germany going from drawing ghana to winning games, and Klose was the finisher he was in 2010
Argentina has less talent coming up than germany for future and this is the fear people had that even though messi is only 26, the next generation for 2018 and 2022 world cup has less talent than the current crop...but then again even the lesser talent could have put that higuaine shot on goal.
Wind's Howling
Member
I am not missing the point. The last few pages were about the fact if Neuer made a foul or not. I stated what were the rules of FIFA when playing in a careless or reckless manner, which can be either of the two for him.
And you will be surprised how many times the media has absolutely no clue about FIFA's rules in regards of fouls or careless/reckless behaviour.
The term "dangerous play" can be put over anything.
But still. You clearly stand by your point and I stand by my point so there's not going to be a win-win here.
Germany won! Let us all just enjoy the moment and congratulate the Germans for finally grabbing it.
KaiserBecks
Member
What "case" is that supposed to be? You are contradicting yourself by calling it "dangerous play" a few pages ago and now quoting rules that apply to a physical foul. It was neither. Deal with it.
"Dangerous play" is a term, not a description. You are quoting particulars that apply to a physical foul (as in -> stepping on somebody's foot vs kicking someone in the head).
My wife is German, my three kids each have their own USA, Argentina and Germany jerseys (or can share if the size matches). My feelings on yesterday.
1. Devastating loss. It hurts to miss the opportunity to win in Brazil, in the Maracanao.
2. Was it a penalty? Absolutely. Am I sore about it? Yes and no. I feel like by the letter of the law, it should have been awarded. However, I think we missed on several golden chances, so I can't lay blame on the missed call alone. I think crying about the missed penalty implies that it cost us the game, and I don't feel it did. It would have changed the complexion of the game entirely, and sure, I would have loved the chance to take a 1-0 lead, but I can't say that's why we lost.
3. Argentina proved all the naysayers wrong. These were the two best teams, and if the final was played ten times, we'd have each team winning 5 times. Excellent, excellent game.
4. Argentina's gameplan was executed perfectly. We let the Germans come to us and tried to counter. While GER had possession, they did very little with it. Unfortunately, we couldn't capitalize on our chances, and thus, didn't deserve the win.
5. While I think Messi is the best in the world, and in the discussion for best ever, I don't think he should be considered greater than Maradona ever again. Even when Diego was triple-teamed or worse, his presence was felt. He didn't have to score to make an impression on the game. Messi was quiet and looked unsure of himself. I personally don't think he was 100% fit.
6. *edit* the substitutions for Argentina was terrible. Lavezzi should have stayed in the game, or Aguero should have started and had Lavezzi come in later. He's relentless.
My daughter, 8 year old, hugged me so tight when the game was over. She didn't say a word. We embraced for a good 3 minutes without a word. My family thought she was crying, but it was she who was consoling me.
My son ran around the house with his Germany jersey on. He was rooting for them from the outset. He is only 6, but he wasn't compromising, regardless of the pressure from the rest of the family.
Excellent finale to a wonderful World Cup. The pain from this loss will never be washed away, though.
1. Devastating loss. It hurts to miss the opportunity to win in Brazil, in the Maracanao.
2. Was it a penalty? Absolutely. Am I sore about it? Yes and no. I feel like by the letter of the law, it should have been awarded. However, I think we missed on several golden chances, so I can't lay blame on the missed call alone. I think crying about the missed penalty implies that it cost us the game, and I don't feel it did. It would have changed the complexion of the game entirely, and sure, I would have loved the chance to take a 1-0 lead, but I can't say that's why we lost.
3. Argentina proved all the naysayers wrong. These were the two best teams, and if the final was played ten times, we'd have each team winning 5 times. Excellent, excellent game.
4. Argentina's gameplan was executed perfectly. We let the Germans come to us and tried to counter. While GER had possession, they did very little with it. Unfortunately, we couldn't capitalize on our chances, and thus, didn't deserve the win.
5. While I think Messi is the best in the world, and in the discussion for best ever, I don't think he should be considered greater than Maradona ever again. Even when Diego was triple-teamed or worse, his presence was felt. He didn't have to score to make an impression on the game. Messi was quiet and looked unsure of himself. I personally don't think he was 100% fit.
6. *edit* the substitutions for Argentina was terrible. Lavezzi should have stayed in the game, or Aguero should have started and had Lavezzi come in later. He's relentless.
My daughter, 8 year old, hugged me so tight when the game was over. She didn't say a word. We embraced for a good 3 minutes without a word. My family thought she was crying, but it was she who was consoling me.
My son ran around the house with his Germany jersey on. He was rooting for them from the outset. He is only 6, but he wasn't compromising, regardless of the pressure from the rest of the family.
Excellent finale to a wonderful World Cup. The pain from this loss will never be washed away, though.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Indirect free kick in the box is only happening after the goalkeeper picks up a pass from his team mates.
A foul(dangerous play is foul) in the box is always penalty kick, no other option for the referees.
In this instance Neuer went only for the ball and got the ball and Higuain ran into him. Thats not dangerous play. Not a foul.
Look how the international press is not discussing this scene:
http://www.thescore.ie/manuel-neur-knee-higuain-head-1569740-Jul2014/
http://www.smh.com.au/fifa-world-cu...e-world-cup-final-was-won-20140714-zt6fr.html
http://www.sportskeeda.com/football/manuel-neuer-clash-against-higuain-penalty-or-not/
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/799...germanys-manuel-neuer-foul-argentina-forward/
http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2014/7/13/5896141/manuel-neuers-antics-finally-get-someone-hurt
http://www.krone.at/Sport/Neuer_tritt_Higuain_um_-_Foul_oder_nicht-Szene_im_Video-Story-411795
And that's just the first couple of links on Google News.
Heck, even Germany is surprised
http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/w...ruede-Attacke-gegen-Argentiniens-Higuain.html
Type Neuer red card or Neuer Higuain in google and tell us again how it is not controversial at all.
Everyone has moved on for a reason ..
It's quite understandable why people want to quickly move on. After some time no one will care how you won.Everyone has moved on for a reason ..
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
It's a given.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
even if people say that Neuer jump was a foul, ok then, Argentina had a few of there own they did without getting anything, kramer getting taken the fuck out and looking like he had a concussion,
Schweinsteiger getting taken out like 50 times and ending up having a cut below his eye,
both teams got away with there fair share of quetionable fouls that could have been a red or a yellow. but hey thats the nature of the game, the ref wont get everything to what we see when we get replays and they dont. another reason why many people are wanting them to start doing it.
until then everyone needs to just deal with sometimes things not going there way and other times things going there way when they shouldnt.
Schweinsteiger getting taken out like 50 times and ending up having a cut below his eye,
both teams got away with there fair share of quetionable fouls that could have been a red or a yellow. but hey thats the nature of the game, the ref wont get everything to what we see when we get replays and they dont. another reason why many people are wanting them to start doing it.
until then everyone needs to just deal with sometimes things not going there way and other times things going there way when they shouldnt.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
It looked brutal, thatswhy people are talking about it. But it wasn't a foul.
Here is what swiss referee boss Carlo Bertolini had to say: https://translate.google.de/transla...ben-muessen/story/23364162&edit-text=&act=url
TL
R: absolutely not.The only thing, that everybody should agree on, is that Germany could barely win yesterday. Argentina had so many chances to score in situations where it's a striker vs. German's goal keeper only, and yet the striker doesn't send the ball into the goal. In an ideal world, Argentina should have won, but in reality, Germany have.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Neur went knee first into the face. Kramer got the shoulder which is a standard play in a bad position which resulted in him getting face first into the shoulder. Did he move his shoulder purposely to his face?
Shame it is over already, fully enjoyed this WC.
Not to many tactically defensive football (like Arg/Hol), let to a lot of attractive games and goals. Some teams disappointing (Spa/Eng/Ita), but also some nice surprise (Costa Rica). I don't know if Germany deserved it, as the final could have gone both ways, but it is always nice to see offensive thinking football team winning, so gratuliere zu meinen Deutschen nachbarn mit den vierten stern.
Others;
- our team did better than expected, missed vd Wiel (and maybe an other LB, even though Blind did better than expected) and Strootman to do more, play some more offensively football. Not a fan of BMI, nice guy, but just to slow, Vlaar/De Vrij did great, de Jong is the Jong, guy you want to play in your team, like Robben (best IMHO). Sneijeder/RvP ok but not super, but the 5-3-2 did not really help them out and Georgino is a 10 as he showed in the 3/4 place match. LvG, showed he is a world class coach and got the maximum out of the team, best to him in Manchester.
- Hope Brazil learns from this and goes back playing samba football again, missed you guys. (same for my team )
- Not a fan of the new refereeing. Letting play go on is ok (need top ref for that), but it became a tat to physical and combined with lack of cards, to many talented guys get kicked of the pitch.
- Hate the overuse of super slomo's during challenges, they to often give a wrong impression of the severity of the challenge, because you miss the speed at which it happens (see Neuer, slomo vs full speed (stupid/dangerous but not red)
Bring on France 2016, Germany and France at home the teams to beat, but still an awful lot of football to play.
Not to many tactically defensive football (like Arg/Hol), let to a lot of attractive games and goals. Some teams disappointing (Spa/Eng/Ita), but also some nice surprise (Costa Rica). I don't know if Germany deserved it, as the final could have gone both ways, but it is always nice to see offensive thinking football team winning, so gratuliere zu meinen Deutschen nachbarn mit den vierten stern.
Others;
- our team did better than expected, missed vd Wiel (and maybe an other LB, even though Blind did better than expected) and Strootman to do more, play some more offensively football. Not a fan of BMI, nice guy, but just to slow, Vlaar/De Vrij did great, de Jong is the Jong, guy you want to play in your team, like Robben
(best IMHO). Sneijeder/RvP ok but not super, but the 5-3-2 did not really help them out and Georgino is a 10 as he showed in the 3/4 place match. LvG, showed he is a world class coach and got the maximum out of the team, best to him in Manchester.- Hope Brazil learns from this and goes back playing samba football again, missed you guys. (same for my team
)- Not a fan of the new refereeing. Letting play go on is ok (need top ref for that), but it became a tat to physical and combined with lack of cards, to many talented guys get kicked of the pitch.
- Hate the overuse of super slomo's during challenges, they to often give a wrong impression of the severity of the challenge, because you miss the speed at which it happens (see Neuer, slomo vs full speed (stupid/dangerous but not red
)Bring on France 2016, Germany and France at home the teams to beat, but still an awful lot of football to play.
Wind's Howling
Member
This should come as no surprise for everyone:
Scolari resigns.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28289452
Scolari resigns.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28289452
PdotMichael
Banned
That's not a foul on anyone, just an unlucky incident.
The other links are more "please discuss it on our website" style articles.
2 Slice Toaster
Member
It is amazing how much shorter the threads from the last World Cup are without all the throwaway salt posts.
Wind's Howling
Member
But that is what makes experiencing the World Cup on GAF so much more fun.
Locke Lamora
Member
Summarizes this topic since Sinclair's (successful) troll attempt pretty well: It's an ugly mess. ;-)
2 Slice Toaster
Member
I don't know if you can quantify how much more fun people had from reading through 40-50 extra pages of people posting "DAT SALT" per thread, but I suppose its up to the individual to determine.
That's quite the rebuttal of what I said, you getting better by the minute. And just to add some fancy spoiler too
I live in Germany
Yeah, it's ok. If that's all you got out of these links including the german one and discussion with you is not worth it.
Wind's Howling
Member
Ah, you meant those posts. No, I agree those are not fun. But the people just pissing on every single player or the ref when a country won fair and square? Now that.. That is wonderful. And I must agree that I have done my fair share of that as well. I am not the perfect GAF poster but that is because emotion came into play from time to time.
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